IV: Heute ist Freitag, der 20. Juli 2012.
Wir sind in Weiden in der Oberpfalz im Hotel Admira
und führen jetzt ein Gespräch mit Herrn Nechemia Feder,
der heute in Israel lebt.
NF: Zero, Five, Zero, Five 1926. That was my, my birthday date.
Ah, the city was, {clearing the throat} ca.., is calling, still existing, Kraśnik {clearing the throat}.
This is a ah, ah district of Lublin.
Lublin is a, the district, the ah, district city.
And ah Kraśnik is about ah thirty miles more or less south, south of Lublin.
This is ah, where we were born.
And ah, and when the war breaked out,
I was just thirteen years old.
And that was ah of course, ah, in a 1939.
I don't remember, I think ah, which month it was, {laughing}
when ah German army went into Kraśnik.
But we as ah little boys, all of ah, we runned out from ah housing,
from the houses to see the
march of the German army taking over the city.
Because at the {clearing the throat}, at the part of our city
there were a, a military camp, once upon a time, for the Polish army.
So now it was occupied by the, by the German army.
So a lot, a lot of ah soldiers by cars, by bicycles, by ah,
ah, ah, ah, ah, saw horses all kind of ah, of ah transportation.
A lot, non stop ah are, ah, military went in.
And we as kids we are looking at it.
You know, we didn't understand what's going on {laughing}, but
something is happening {clearing the throat}.
So we were there, looking at it.
But ah very soon, after a few days, they already start {clearing the throat} catching people,
mainly Jewish people at, at the street.
And taking them to, to {clearing the throat}, to do some kind of work for the German army,
like {clearing the throat} loading, off-loading stuff and et cetera, you know, at the, ah, camp.
And in the end of the day, ah people came back home {clearing the throat}.
But ah more and more comes out more
instructions that we cannot attend more, any more school.
We cannot go to the school any more, Jewi.., mainly the Jewish population.
Ah {clearing the throat} at that time the Jewish population,
the whole city was about ah, a few thousand people,
but a thirty percent of them was Jewish population, in the center of city.
So, ah, {clearing the throat} after the German army took over,
everything started to come out all kind of ah, announcements.
Ah first announcement was that ah, Jewish kids cannot attend any more, not public school.
And no private school, no schools.
Also, lawyers cannot ah work as a lawyer.
Doctors cannot work as a doctors and all kind of ah
restrictions for, mainly for the Jewish population.
And of course later on they start to ah start to make evacuation of Jewish people.
And in the beginning when nobody knews, where the, the transporters are going,
ah, ah about four kilometers ah, w.., ah, I think, north of Kraśnik was a trainstation.
And we were always, we were communication between
Lublin, Kraśnik and ah other cities of Poland.
And ah when they start with, to evacuate ah Jewish people
ah made a transports ah started just in 1941, 40, until 1940 was more or less,
there were restrictions, but we ah could not buy many things.
We had to go out.
I remember I and my older sister, we used to go to the ah
close village to, to buy some potatos or some milk.
And you know to, to have, just because they were not ah, to buy anymore.
We could not buy anything.
We could not make any money to, ah so we used to go to ah,
me and my older sister, we used to go by walking {laughing} by foot
to the closest village to bring some ah, something to, to, to make a living {laughing}.
And ah, but when, later on an, ah, ah, there is an another thing,
which is very important.
Close to Kraśnik, {clearing the throat}, a Polish ah government years before
ah start to build up ah, ah a part of a build..,
of a sites for security ah b.., ah outfits to build weapons or what ever for the, for the Polish army.
That was in, they called COP, C-O-P.
Of course ah you have to give ah, to distribute money.
I mean, to build it up ah this ah, ah complex of, of, ah
to build some defence means for the Polish army.
When the German came, came, took over, they found ah a lot of equipment, very interesting equipment.
So the, the first thing was disassembly, so people were captured on the street,
ah, used to go at ah, my father was also a bit with them.
Used to dismantle all the heavy equipment.
And was shipped over to, to Germany.
That was in, in ah, in the beginning of f.., 40, 41, main in 41.
Ah not only this, even, they de.., they start to destruct even the buildings.
And we, as ah workers, I mean cheap workers, Jewish people,
were obliged to clean the stones, from the buildings to be reused again.
All kind of work and of course ah guarded by the German army.
Was not SS, that time was just ah Wehrmacht, no, no problem.
And ah at the end of the day, used to come back home.
Later on {clearing the throat} and ah, when the start, in, in, in the beginning of 1942 or end of 1943,
they already start to evacuate people.
Ah and a.., they mean transports, to, to, to mai.., ah the transports were {clearing the throat} brought to Belżec.
They were already starting to, to kill by gas.
As trucks was staying in Belżec, {clearing the throat} diesel trucks.
And ah transport of people brought from Kraśnik and neighbourhood {clearing the throat}
ah villiges and ah some other near cities to Kraśnik {clearing the throat} were transportet to Belżec.
And Belżec of course, in the beginning we didn't know that,
they were announced of course at that time it was already Judenrat in ah Kraśnik.
And the Judenrat didn't know nothing, where the transports are ending up.
Nobody knews about it.
And ah, we, they start ah to investigate no signs, we don't know.
They, they went to ah Arbeitscamp, Arbeitcamp.
Arbeitscamp so you know ah we didn't thought, ah thought something that can be d.., something else.
So ah, ah, after a while one transport, another transport.
We, the community, Jewish community still were, the Judenrat
ah hired some Polish people to follow the transport
and where they're ending up, whether this is an Arbeitscamp,
or what's going on with the people that's being transported?
And they came up, they came back and reported:
"They have been gased.
All of them were going ah killed."
Nobody could believe it.
It was not, unacceptable, not believed it.
But eventually, it was true. That was, that was of the end,
so by end of 1942 it was alre.., Kraśnik was already judenrein.
Ah, ah was, most of them were already, ah, ah at that time like I said, ah
the German start to rebuild the, the complex of that ah, ah
ammunition or security or what ever Polish had ah planned to, to build there {clearing the throat}.
Ah, the German ah took over again and start to rebuild everything,
to put back in place.
But no machinery.
At that time the ah the f.., the firm who took over those complex,
in near that, that place was called Budzyń.
I have some write-up about Budzyń, if you'll be interested I will show you that to you.
And Budzyń was a, a complex, like the Polish build it up
and it was ah one part of, of it was ah, a complex of manufacturing.
And another part was ah for buildings for to give, for the personnel to live.
Ah this, this place were the, ah blocks for ah person.., personnel to live,
they build it up a Budzyń camp, Budzyń camp.
And the first ah to build up the camp was ah
Jewish ah who were in the Polish army and were prisoners,
to were still with, ah with the Mundus,
I mean the, they were still keeping {clearing the throat}
their cloth from the Polish army, but prisoners.
And they build it up, the Budzyń camp.
And ah later on, when, when ah Kraśnik was judenrein,
who ever survived was ah, brought to Budzyń camp.
And ah commander of that camp was ah, was called Feiks.
Feiks was the commander of the Budzyń camp.
Very brutal pe.., person, very brutal.
And {clearing the throat} and we were, ah, we were brought to the Budzyń camp
and ah we used to go every day, marching from the ah living compounds
to the manufacture compounds, which was about four kilometers to,
to travel, to march, you know ah marching.
IV: To walk.
NF: To walk, {clearing the throat}, every day by day.
Ah that time ah who, the, ah German company who took over the, that complex was Heinkel Werke.
Heinkel Werke Stor.., Stork, something like that.
Ah, and they decided to build up the, a sub-assembly
for Heinkel bomber, twin, twin bomber.
And our part was to, to make the center section of that ah Heinkel bomber 111,
number 111 Heinkel ah twin, twin-engine.
But our part was just to build the center section.
But the, ah there were only Meisters, only su.., supervisors.
But they have to prepare people to make the job {laughing}.
So they took out ah most of ah young people like me.
I was at that time fourteen, fifteen years old.
We were a group of people and ah they decided to, to give us ah Umschulung.
Umschulung to, controlled by, by Heinkel Meisters to teach us on spot.
And of course it, ah, they were not to polite, the Meisters and ah quite brutally as well.
Ah, but they give us a hard way of teaching,
{laughing} it works {laughing}, after all.
You know the ah, they give us to make all kind of ah figures
to cut out from sheet metal.
Figures, or to ah file, file irons like a U or L or all kind of it.
And, {clearing the throat} and it was always controlled.
The Meister used to put on a piece of ah control to see, if I, if I filed it up properly.
There is no air between them.
And if it wasn't correctly they get, they were, we were beated, very brutally.
And ah that it works and ah we really start to, to do the job, all kind of job.
I mean, sheet metal work even ah soldering, all kind of soldering.
There is some of us, we are used to solder also ah silver and gold.
I mean to teach how to sil.., how to, to use ah, ah how,
it was {clearing the throat} not electric ah welding, just a normal.
And ah this was the Umschulung and half day,
half day training and a half day working on the,
ah on the that center section, preparing the whole, a sub-assemblies to until it get together.
{Clearing the throat} It didn't take to long, because at that,
it was already end of ah 1943 almost.
It was already a, a turn over after ah, invasion to Russia and ah and after s.., ah, ah
Stalingrad or Leningrad, after and ah start to, to be a change.
They decided to ah to get out from Budzyń,
because ah, ah Russian are getting more, more close to Poland.
I mean after the turn over, what happens after Leningrad,
they couldn't ah, they couldn't ah conquer not ah not Stalingrad, but they {clearing the throat}.
So the Meister decided to, di.., ah how to, to save what ever has been done.
So then, some, I don't know how was the idea,
but ah, ah, another thing, besides ah, besides Budzyń
Heinkel were, has two, has another site, called Mielec, also in Poland.
Also in Mielec Heinkel was ah, had some compound
and they did some work in Mielec, and we in Budzyń.
We, we ma.., it was something very interconnected between Mielec and Budzyń.
And ah when the war starts to move in more to Poland,
ah they decided to take out everything and were and ah,
to, to dismantle the machinery, jeeks {?} and all the other thing.
And they said it ah was shipped over to Wieliczka.
Wieliczka is a, a sa.., a salt mine near Krakau.
And they were thinking that they can ah continue working for Heinkel underneath ah, ..
IV: Ground, underground.
NF: ..ah, under, underground and that ah, ah a salt mine.
And also Wieliczka was a part of Plaszów.
Plaszów, you heard about Plaszów, ja?
You see probably the, that film?
Ja, so Plaszów.
And ah Wieliczka was a part of Plaszów.
It was administrated and leaded by, by Plaszów camp.
So ah, we were actually more pla.., more ah, ah administrative.
We were more belonging to Plaszów than independent.
And ah there are, ah them put me here a KL, I had you know to stitch in the KL.
But it was, was so hurt and I, I couldn't take it {laughing}.
So I right away I start to soak it out the, the ink.
IV: Yeah.
NF: I had ah some, some of w.., it was a wonder, because of that ah stick, stitches.
Ah, but ah with the time, it disappeared, very soon.
And ah me and a friend of mine, since we were in the m..., in the salt mine,
we found some {clearing the throat} clothing from Polish workers.
So, me and a friend of mine, who is no more alive, we were school boys {clearing the throat}.
And we decided, probably we can escape.
Ah we were, actually we were not guarded at the underground.
When we, when we get down, downstairs,
we had no SS, no guards, so we were thinking, we found ah civil, ah civil ah..
IV: Cloth.
NF: ..stuff to, from Polish workers. So, ah we, ah, we start to ask, where is the next outlet, {laughing}
Ausfahrt for the, from that mine.
So we found it's about up to Bochnia, almost close to Cz.., to Romanian border.
And ah it was everything prepared for us, to es.., to try to escape.
At that time my ah friend get a, ah, sign of life from his mother.
His mother was brought to Plaszów.
Plaszów was also a camp, also women and, and men.
And he was, he starts to be ah scared.
We are a part of Plaszów so if you will escape,
"Maybe they will find out and they will look after us,
the first ah victim will be my mother."
So ah decided not to escape.
So, ah after this, after a while we were {clearing the throat} also, ah the ah Russian army
crossed ah the river of ah, they call it Wisla,
Wisla river, which was divided between ah, east and west of Poland.
So when you get no.., to mo.., east of Poland.
So they put us, take all the people out and again on, on cars on train.
And ah we ended up at Auschwitz.
I, we could look to the, were the closed wagons.
I saw Auschwitz gate area in front of us.
So we think it, ah probably we here will end up our life {laughing} {clearing the throat}.
A.., after about 24 hours around on the Gleisen.
We had no food, no water, nothing.
And ah trains starts to go up, to Floss, up to Floss.., we ended up to Flossenbürg.
IV: What time was, this was, you can remember maybe?
NF: That, that was, yes, yes, I will, I, I {laughing} have a little bit written {laughing} down.
I get to Flossen.., July/August, July/August '44 was the first attempt to be in Flossenbürg.
But ah when, when get to Flossenbürg, the first thing was in the quarantine.
And it was Aaa-A.., Ablosung and you know changing everything.
Yesterday we were there so I, I get a re.., ah, reminder
after they made, ah, the first time I mean, we still have s.., a little bit hair.
So they made you, no, they didn't cut the hair.
They cut them in the middle..
IV: Yeah.
NF: ..middle of the hair.
And ah, went in to the Ablo.., A.., Ablosung.
And ah of course, ah to take shower.
So ah I looked around and I saw all the pipings, I said:
{laughing} "Well, what is going to be, ah, poison or water?" {laughing}
But, yeah th.., warm water, we were ah, were ah, we were take showers.
And then they give us the, the ah, ah, the special, ah, shirt,
what they got, all with ah, with the s.., stripe, stripes.
And ah Holla.., Holland shoes, the..
IV: From woods?
NF: Wood, wood shoes {laughing}, Holla.., Holland shoes we called them.
And ah after a d.., after a few days they put us again on trucks.
Not, not, not the whole transport.
I was there and we were brought to Hersbruck, near Nürnberg.
And all of a sudden we, we have to work for Hoch- and Tiefbau.
That was ah, they builded something on the top of the hill, Hoch- und Tiefbau.
And the, the equipment was brought by train down hill.
So we have to off, off load all the ah equipment,
iron, and wood thing, to carry all the way up.
And that was practic impossible.
We were in no ah skinny so, no force, we couldn't,
we couldn't climb up with a, with some loads all the way up, uphill.
It was, tir.., it was, I was thinking that is going to be the end of my life {laughing}.
And in, but ah, I was there in Hersbruck just a f.., short while.
And one of these days, ah, what I must say and describe
that ah besides having such a heavy work at the Hersbruck,
but when we get back to the camp after ah day of work, the, the soup,
was the best soup I ever get the last few years {laughing}.
Was with potatos and some meat even inside.
It was something new for us {laughing}.
Is not to see, it was a very, very hard work, but ah the food was quite suitable.
It was, this was a surprise for us.
Then after a while, I think it was about a week or two week being in Hersbruck.
And the end of the day we were already on the,
went to, to lay down to sweet, to sleep.
All of a sudden they put on the light in the barrack and: "Achtung, achtung!"
And ah whenever we hear "Achtung!" we, everybody get's scared,
even now, if something is going to be happen {laughing}.
As, and ah guy ah said: ah "I will call by names.
And everyone who has been called by name, has to step down
and in stay on the line between the, in the middle of the barrack."
And they called my name too.
So I stepped down, I came down, I, I looked down, who, who is it?
What ah they are calling me?
So I saw that, we are all the same group of ah young people
we were at the Umschulung at the Heinkel in Poland.
So I was ah thinking, if, if, if this is my friends of {laughing},
so probably is not so bad {laughing}.
So after a, they finished calling the group, they put it on ah trucks on, back to Flossenbürg.
Back to Flossenbürg, again quarantine and you know, the Ablosung.
And then, they send it to the barracks.
So I was sended to barrack eleven, you know, uphill.
And in next day, me and my friend, again, we were all boys from school, school boys,
we were ah, base, ah elementary school in Poland {clearing the throat}.
And ah they put, they brought us to Halle 11.
From Halle 11 was, there were, ah a ah chain of work
building ah wings for Messerschmitt interceptor one eleven, one, one zero nine.
That was an interceptor line.
And they explained at us, Meisters again explained it,
that this is {clearing the throat} a, ah, a taschmir-work, I mean every group has a certain station
to do and has to go to move on, move on, move on.
I think it work, they work twenty-four hours non-stop, ah building, ah building the ah the wings.
But they were also in some barracks, other friends used to, to ah, to assembly ribs,
ribs for the wings, you know, ah, wing as a main bar, middle, a main bar.
And you have ribs from a, from leading edge up to the trailing edge.
And ah, as the main spar, ribs and then comes the to cover with this, the skin
of the wo.., of, of the ah, ah sheet metal, to cover up the, the wing.
I'm, but the first you have to put all the little stuff in
between the upper part, upper bar and the lower bar.
I mean the, the, we call it leading edge.
And ah, and the end of, of the wing is called trailing edge.
And ah my part, with my, my ah friend, we ah we used to, to make ah
our part was to put on the first part of, of sheet metal, which covers up the wing.
And it was the most important thing, because this was the main line
to continue the other ah, continue the type of work up ah part by part.
And of course every ah part of work was controlled of ah quality control.
Quality control, there were inspectors, you know with, with a Vergrößerglas
to see, if the neetings {?} is proper and everything is exactly according to
the standard of, of, of aviation standard,
which is very strictly and very accurate, must be accurate.
And ah, ah my, my ah contra partner was called Pantel Grafstein,
but two years ago, he passed away.
So, ah and, on ah builiding the wi.., the wings, it was a lot of noise.
You know, ah pneumatic, pneumatic ah machinery, everything was making a lot of noise
and ah to, to make {clearing the throat} riveting, to rivet ah, the sheet metal
into the, the wings we had to use rivets.
The rivets is also, was everything ah, ah aluminium, all kind of aluminium.
And that time, the rivets has to get, before using them,
you have to get ah, they must be ah warmed up to certain temperature,
so you can use them and to make proper neeting.
Ah for this we had always ah hi.., helper.
We explained them exactly what kind of Niets {?} he hads to beat for each part of work
and ah to have the proper, to get it out from the, it was a supply ah in the store.
Ah I had to ask for niets, to, to niet this part of doing or the other part of doing,
was different, lend different ah, in, ah, ah the way of ah thickness and so far.
So, we always had ah a helper to bring us the necessary parts, to continue our work.
So in the beginning, you know, in Flossenbürg was a mixed kind of people.
Ah there were Jews, there were criminals, German criminals, there were Zigeuners, cyganiec.
Ah there were ah Russian prisoners, military prisoners.
There were a bunch of ah Polish army.
Ah I think there were about fifteen to twenty-thousand people here in Flossenbürg.
So, in the beginning we get an officer, a Polish officer ah, from the, a prisoner from Polish armia.
How he get there, I don't know {laughing} until today.
But he was quite an, a older person.
And ah, he was very kind to us.
He understand what we need, he understand the pressure of work,
I mean, to do the work in time and correctly.
And he understand it and he was quite good to us.
But ah there, there were some days he was sick or he didn't come,
so they give us a guy who was a gy.., an a German gypcian, ah deutsche Zigeuner.
A deutsche Zigeuner, a young boy and he was hundred prozent different from the Polish.
He was a lazy, and not understanding.
He always burned up, we need a twenty millimeters niet,
he was bringing, I got twenty millimeter.
We need a screw of one quarter, he was broughting it awfully.
But we could not talk, because too much noise was in there, in there, Halle 11.
A lot of pneumatic ah equipment was ah working them.
So, you know that to, to explain him, that he did wrong, so, we get there a, a piece of iron,
you know, when you rivet, ah rivet you have a, ah, revolver of riveting
and the other side is a, you have to keep it with the bar, ah, ah iron bar, to make the rivet proper head.
So we used to drop him the, the, the b.., the iron bar on his legs.
And he was {laughing} jumped.
And ah until, we had a lot of problems, with that, with the gypsy boy.
A young boy, but it was a lazy and he didn't understand too much about what we need.
I don't know how he get there, but lot, lot of gypsys were there.
You know, there are every kind of person.., personality were here, they have a different..
IV: Triangle..
NF: ..triangle. I mean like, Verbrechers was the triangle down I think.
Some of the, I get a triangle up and a different colour, all kind {laughing}.
And ah, what I want to understre.., to stress out, {clearing the throat}
when we start to evac.., ah, evacuate, ah, Flossenbürg to the Steinbruch,
at Steinbruch was there already a train waiting for us.
When they decided to, to depart, I mean to evacuate Flossenbürg.
They hadn't got enough guards, to keep, to, to guard the whole, ah,
ah, so many people out from Flossenbürg up to the Steinbruch.
So they mobilized all the German Verbrechers, all kind of ah criminals.
They give them na, ah, they give them, all of a sudden they were welcome to the German {laughing} German army.
And they give them ah, ah rifles to guard, and the same die deutsche Zigeuners.
There were a lot of deutsche Zigeuners there.
And they give them rifles to guard the, the convoys.
And this guy get also a rifle.
And when we start the, the death march out from Schwarzenfeld, he was guarding us.
And he was looking in, who ever fell, could not ah continue run.., ah going, was killed on spot.
He said: "I will kill you."
Me and my friend.
And he was always ah trying to be close to us, when we were marching.
This is a part of it {laughing}, okay.
Now, going back to, to Flossenbürg at the time,
when we were here looking at him.
Ah so, the work in Halle 11 was actually,
except, I mean, ah, I used to, me and my friend,
ah we made a good, ah sometimes we did a good job.
And sometimes we have to help other stations ah were holding up, for, for some reasons.
And so, they always called me and my friend
to take over to see, where the problem is.
And try to fix it so the, the Taschmik and move on.
I mean it like a Taschmik work.
You know, like going round.
IV: Ja. Ja.
NF: And ah, when we did a good job, we used to get some awards.
The award was ah a piece of paper.
There were a cantine, a cantine in Flossenbürg,
only on Sundays I think afternoon they used to open it
and ah, the only thing, what I know, you could have take for the award, was chewing gum.
Chewing gum and probably some, I don't remember some other things.
But chewing gum was very popular and the Russian ah prisoners they were crazy about it.
So they always come and down and ah changing.
I used to give them the chewing gum and I {laughing} and they give me
or bread or soup or what ever they got in extra.
So we changed over.
They call it: "Machnem."
Machnem in Russian means, let's change it {laughing}.
So that was ah one part of ah Flossenbürg.
And ah, I mean, but I remember it quite ah well.
And the other part was on the appell, appell ah platz, Appellplatz.
Every Sunday was ah, they performed a, a concert between eleven and twelve o'clock.
It was a music concert and ah we were uphill on the, the barracks.
And they looking down and it was, you know, like
ta.., taking, satting ah sitting down and look on orchester when they used to play.
And some, some kind of I would say enjoying to hear it.
But ah, when the a.., ah, when the Ameri.., the allied forces from America already starts from
Belgium, France going into, into Germany and ah s.., one day I saw ah some spitfire
or mustang airplane used to fly over.
They didn't attack it, ah Flossen.., but only they fly o.., they flight over ah Flossenburg
and all the musicians {laughing} runed away {laughing}.
Yeah, the whole concert, in, in, the concert was more for the ah, ah German, ah administrative,
there were a lot of, lot of ah, administrative holding that camp.
And everybody was running away.
I mean the concert was mainly for them, not, not for the, not for the ah Häftlinge {laughing}.
And ah I was so happy to see it, I first Klatschen,
see ah that everybody escaped to Flossenburg.
This is some kind, you know, which always you remember it {laughing}.
And ah I'd, I and now ah at 23rd of April they start to evac.., ah evacuate the Flossenbürg, out of Flossenbürg.
Ah right, I think, right in the afternoon, they announce it that we are going to be evacuated
and ah, they will bring us to, to the Steinbruck area, where the train station.
And there is arleady trains are waiting for us.
And we will have to get there.
And ah my group, we were almost, was almost, almost midnight
when we start to move out from Flossenbürg to the Steinbruck.
It would be loaded on the, on the train.
So it was almost qui.., quite dark and everything.
So by luck I was put on, on a open wagen.
Because the ah, on the beginning it was a, a long, long train,
with two locomotives, one in the front, one the rear.
A very long one, most of the wagons were closed,
but some of them were also open.
Ah, I was lucky and I was in an open ah wagon.
And of course get.., in, in ah, in every wa.., in every open wagon
was about three or four SS man, guarding us.
And every SS man has a, ah Rucksack with some ah, ah surviving equipment,
like bread, or what ever it is, because I understand later on that we were,
ah that the destination was to bring us to Buchenwald.
That was ah the main ah purpose, to bring us there.
And ah, we just start to, the train starts to move.
I think we moved from here up to Schwarzenfeld, that, that's about ah
half an hour drive or something, it'is not too far.
In Schwarzenfeld ah we were attacked, an awful attack.
Because they were sure that it's a military convoy,
such a long convoy, two locomotives.
So and they attacked the, the, the most, the most casualties,
the most, it was on the, the closed,
on the closed ah wagons, they could not escape.
They were like in a cage.
I was, the open wagons, everybody, SS escaped and we escaped.
All of us escaped {laughing}.
We didn't run away to far, ah, escaped the, that far, to, to the bush.
There, there, there a lot of trees over there.
We didn't know, where to go {laughing}.
So we runed out from diese, from the wagon, and not far away.
But ah, some of, some of our people, of our Häftlinge,
when the SS runed away, but the rucksack with the, with the food equ..,
with some kind of food inside,
they start to open the, the hocks.., the rucksacks with the food
and start to, start to eat.
And they were all of, we were all hungry {laughing}.
We have nothing, not in the day of, of the evauca..,
ah, when we were evacuated, there was no more, ah, no more food.
Kitchen didn't work any more {laughing}.
And ah, when the SS come back and they saw that the,
that they lost from their food, one by one they were killed, one by one.
It was an, ah, I, I cannot get rid of that picture I saw.
Two people were fighting of a piece of a bread.
Two people were fighting, I mean, to, to share the bread.
And then g.., one of them that gave, gave up.
And the SS-Mann, the SS-Mann saw it, so, with o.., with one bullet they killed both of them.
Everybody, whoever ah had something from the, from the food
from the guards, were killed on spot.
It was a massacre in Schwarzenfeld,
thousands from the, from the closed wagons and from the SS
killed people who robbed their, their food {breathing}.
Later on, {clearing the throat} in the afternoon, they started that we ki..,
since we cannot be transported by, by means of train.
So we will have to make ah, a march.
We will be marching to, to Buchenwald.
But even to march Buchenwald, they decided they have,
they make, probably not everybody can, can join, can, can participate.
So the only, the only way to, to know who can be taken to the march,
was ah to get part of ah, ah, was a, a, I think a, ah rampa.
Was a like a pace.., ah paved, paved area.
And they give us about ah fifty or hundred meters to run.
If you could run ah that part of ah test, rechts.
Who cannot run links.
So, they make some kind of selection.
And ah I, I was lucky {laughing}, I was still in, in ah, a good shape, more or less, considerable.
And ah I was on the part to go on the death marsch.
And we start to march.
We were marching, we were until the, until from the 15,
from 15 of April or 16 of April actually it was already next day.
From 16 of April until the 23rd of April
when ah American army released us in Stamsried.
We were li.., liberated in Stamsried.
Because we were marching, only ah we could have march ah in the afternoon, afternoon.
And in the evening we were always, ah we were parking some, near to a bush.
And sometimes they brought us ah from the villages around, some potatos, warm potatos and sometimes nothing.
But this, we were on the, on the way from the day of ev.., evacuation of Flossenbürg
until we were liberated in the 23rd of April 1945.
That was, ah we were ah almost eight days with actually no food {laughing},
no wo.., ah food, ah potato here potato there and some water, sometimes yes, sometimes no.
And they used always to take some, ah some people of us to a certain village around where we were parking,
to see, if we can get something from the farmers.
Mainly, all the area is more, farmers {clearing the throat}.
So, on the farmers, someone, some of them give something for and sometime not.
But this was the only, the only food they could have get is a warm potato and sometimes some water {laughing}.
Until the, and when we, when we get to Stamsried the day before,
and they brought us into, you know where they keep the straw,
straw and all other equipment for them {clearing the throat}.
It was brought to a little czos {?} in straw {clearing the throat}.
I saw ah, part of straw, I laid down.
I couldn't, there were a little {clearing the throat} passage, you know, from the rain,
was a little ah, ah, ah gruve {?}, of about thirty centimeter.
I couldn't make it, because I was already from here swollen up.
I couldn't, swollen, I was almost on, ah, to, {laughing} I couldn't con.., continue.
If we have to go ah one day more, I would not, I would not make it, for sure {clearing the throat}.
And ah I lay down and I fell asleep.
And next in the morning about ah it was almost about ten, eleven.
And we suddenly heared: "Ah, jaaa, we are relieved, we are liberated, we are liberated, no SS, no."
American tanks {laughing} already approached to us.
I don't know how come they get to Stamsried.
because there was, it was not a highway.
They, they, they, the allied forces, the American forces,
they were ah moving on the highways, but not, not, not on ah, not on a little way like Stamsried.
So we found out that ah, they discovered a lot of groups dead, dead people on,
beside this, beside ah, the, ah beside the road.
And there were ah, they were ah informing the ah along this,
along the road there is a lot of ah dead people.
What, what to do?
So, so some part of the, of the American army, I don't know which, which member of the army
was ah the, was quite a big, a big ah convoy of, of American troops.
And they send them to follow that ah, s.., that ah road which leads to Stamsried.
And there, we were released and then they found out,
why there're so many dead groups ar.., along the road, they are finding.
IV: Yeah, so let's make a little break.
NF: Yes.
IV: This day of liberation, if you want to drink something, perhaps..?
NF: Ah, ah, yes, okay, danke.
IV: ..it helps your voice a little bit {clearing the throat}.
NF: {clearing the throat} Thank you.
IV: So maybe, maybe I ask some questions.
NF: Yes, please.
IV: Before going on.
NF: Ja.
IV: So, what about you in these years, what about your family?
You didn't mention your family anymore.
You just told your own story.
What happened to your family?
NF: {clearing the throat} {breathing strongly} My family is ah like I said before, I think I mentioned that my father was killed in Budzyń?
Did I mention it?
IV: No. No.
NF: No? {clearing the throat} That was {clearing the throat} in ah September '42, was already, Kraśnik was "judenrein".
What does it mean "judenrein"?
They stopped ah transporting to Belżec. But the, most of the ah mainly people ah were brought to Budzyń camp.
And also, there was a little ghetto also, ah, around the ah Jewish synagoge in Kraśnik city.
So there were a little, they call it ah, ghetto.
But from the ghetto, it was a part of Budzyń.
They were not independent.
It was a part of Budzyń complex.
Ah, ah mein father was already kept to Budzyń, because he was all, practic.., every second day
he was catched to, to do some work for the, ah, for the a.., for the Wehrmacht.
And ah and then it was already "judenrein".
We were already closed in Budzyń camp.
Budzyń camp was already established and they brought ah remaining Jews from Kraśnik to Budzyń.
And also from neighbour villages where some Jewish families, Jewish people living around ah around Kraśnik.
So Budzyń was ah, I have some write-up, but probably I can hand it over to you,
if you are interested about it.
Or about Budzyń, what happens to Budzyń.
And ah of course I was with ah, with my father quite a short while.
And ah like I said, did I mention that was a selection one day?
Feiks, yeah? Feiks close the main, I mean before going to the compound of work
for Heinkel, they ah, they decided to make a Gänsenmarsch.
A Gänsemarsch means one after the other.
And going through out to the por.., main port of, of Budzyń, ah, ah of Budzyń camp.
And ah Feiks was there: "Links, rechts, links, rechts, links, rechts."
I was going rechts and my father was going links.
And ah, whoever went rechts, again putting on ah, on five, five, five, five groups.
And start to march to, to the compound of Heinkel, to, to Heinkel work.
And ah the moment we start to, to, to march we already hear a lot of firings, shootings.
We didn't know nothing about it.
But ah at the end of the day, when I came back, I saw my father is not there.
Where is my father, start to ask, where is my father?
He said, so they told ah, they told me that there, the all, who went on the selection
went left, they more about a hundred and fifty people were killed.
More than that.
A day before, they prepared a hole, right at, end of the, of the camp, of Budzyń camp.
Nobody knows for ah people who were making the hole, digging out.
And ah this hole was already, a hundred and fifty people were called, only from that selection.
And my father was there.
So I lost my father at this time.
That was in September 1942 {clearing the throat}.
This is ah, all of a sudden I was alone.
Well, I was asking, I wish, I would be there.
And ah, my f.., my mother, ah, my older sister, when {clearing the throat}, when it tra..,
when they start to make this transports to Belżec,
so we decided, we had some connections, we had some family in, in, ah, Lublin,
so we decided to prepare Irish {means: arisch} documents for my eldest sister
that ah she is no more Jewish, she is now being Christian.
And ah she got Christian documents for them and ah was in Lublin.
But she, she had a Jewish face.
It was easy to recognize it.
So it looks like, a lo.., I don't know when and how?
Because I had no connections with her, but later on I di..,
I was told from somebody who, who was in, in, in Majdanek, Lublin Majdanek {clearing the throat}.
So she was captured and ah and put into the camp, Majdanek camp.
And there, the, she was (???) in Majdanek.
I don't know at, when, any, I had no connection with her at all.
But I know that she di.., she di.., she was (???) in Majdanek.
You heard about Majdanek?
IV: Yes, of course.
NF: Ja, ah, near Lublin.
And ah besides that, when we prepared, when my parents prepared the papers
for my older sister, {clearing the throat} my father said: "If somebody will survive..",
we know, ah, what's going on.
That it's ah, Jewish people, who knows, if who will survive and when.
But whoever will survive you have to meet back at home city.
Kraśnik is our home city.
And if somebody will survive, here is the place, we have to get back.
That was in my mind, you know in my conscious.
At the moment, I hear, when I was released from Stamsried.
und then I went to Neunburg and I was a little bit more recovered, ah,
the Jewish Joints start to already collect people who needs ah hospitalizing, who needs ah,
help who, and who needs to continue ah studying and everything.
So, some of ah, our surroundings, some of them went,
ah and some of them was also in, in Indersdorf.
IV: Indersdorf.
NF: Indersdorf as well.
I didn't went to Indersdorf, because my target was to go back to Poland.
I said, I go at the moment I will be a little bit recovered
and I will be feeling ah no.., more or less normal.
I'm going back to Poland.
So I didn't wan.., so ah, they asked me: "Would you like to go to London?
You would continue there your school.
You were, you use, you didn't fini..",
ah practically I didn't finish high school.
I didn't even start high school.
"Ah, or, oh, to Sweden, wherever you ah, wherever you want."
I said: "No, my target is now, first I have go back to Poland."
I went back to Poland with my, with a friend of mine.
We were two of us and ah of course we didn't find nobody there.
But it, it was something more which ah want ah was in my conscious to go back to Poland is,
ah my father's parents, my, my grandparents, they passed away when my, when my father was still bachelor.
And ah at that time, or when, when the German already ah controlled Kraśnik,
they start to take out the stones from the graves and making ah sideways in Kraśnik city.
It wasn't so developed.
So ah, ah my father was very scared of the stones of his parents' grave,
so one day, very early in the morning, we went up to the cemetery.
We opened the grave and layed down the stones and put it back with, ah,
I mean, not to see any stone at all.
So I said: "If I will be back in Poland, I will try to, to go to cemetery
and probably I can rea.., restore graves of my grandparents!"
And, so these two motives brought me to go back to Poland.
First thing to, to survi.., as a survivor to meet somebody which I knew nobody is there,
but still conscious, I feel an obligation ah an moral obligation to get back and to see.
And also to restore probably the graves of my ah, of, of my father's pa.., ah parents.
But of course, I mean, nobody were there except me.
And also, when I get up to the cemetery, nothing was found.
It was already it, it, it was already ah, agricultured.
I mean the Polish ah farmers took over that area start to grow things.
I could find a piece of stone here, there, you know, some signs.
But not stones and I could not see any graves.
You could not recognize any grave at all.
And this was the same thing, we went ah, I want to take my wife and my and son and,
I got two kids, son and ah, and a daughter.
And we went there, ah three, three years ago.
I want them to see my homeland {laughing}, you know, where I was born,
where I was ah, where, where my, my kinderhood.
IV: Ja.
NF: {clearing the throat} And I showed them all this ah.
We went once again to the cemetery.
But still, nothing was found there.
Then ah I decided to go back to, I want to go to Israel.
Because {clearing the throat} my, two sisters of my father were already,
went to Israel in the 20ies, 1922 or 3.
And very early in the 20ies they went out from Kraśnik, Poland to Israel.
And we know, we know them, because of one of, of ah his sisters
visit us in 1948 {means: 1938}, a year before the war breaked out.
So I, so I ah I wanted to give them a sign that I'm, that I'm a survivor.
So I, I want to go back to, to Germany.
From Germany, to try to go to Israel, legal or illegal whatever it is {clearing the throat}.
And ah so after being, I was on, in Poland about two weeks maximum.
Because I was already ah at the time, when I passed the border to, from Czechoslovakia to Poland
at the border they saw that I'm already almost eighteen, so I have to, to join the Polish army.
So they applied me the, all the documents:
"When you get to Lublin, you have to, to go, to register fill out, fill out the forms.
And they will call you then to come to make ah in the, in the Polish army."
That was the last thing, I was thinking about it {laughing}.
So, of course, I, I, I didn't use it, tho.., those papers at all, nothing and ah and one day
I was on the train between Kraśnik and Lublin, there were a control on the train.
They ask for documents, they come up and I, the only documents I had was the,
the forms I got at the, at the border, as, as coming back to homeland.
And ah they control and said: "You know, you have only two days more days to go to {laughing},
to, to apply the, the forms and to join the probably to the Polish army."
I said: "Yes, yes, yes."
And I went all the way back to Germany.
So I get...
IV: Did you get any informations there what happened to your mother?
NF: Yes, I told you that the {breathing strongly} {clearing the throat} that was the first information that we got, that ah Belżec is no camp.
It's just a, a death place.
Every transport to get to ah, to Belżec in the same day were all gased.
All the people was gased by ah diesel trucks.
Were a lot of diesel trucks there.
And everybody was just ga..
So my ah, my mother and my youngest sister, they were together.
And they were (???) of, in, in Belżec.
IV: You didn't mention it before.
So, that's why I asked it.
You've just mentioned the cars, but not.
NF: Ah, I didn't mention it. Yeah, ja.
Ah, yes, my, my mother, my mother, my youngest sister was there at the, at this transport.
It was actually the last transport out from Kraśnik were sent to, to Belżec.
Because later on was already in Budzyń, they start the Budzyń camp, yeah.
IV: Okay, maybe before going on with the story, some questions about Flossenbürg?
NF: Yes.
IV: So, you and your friend, you have been something like a specialist for this work?
NF: Yes.
IV: So maybe you got be treated ah a little bit better than some other people?
NF: Ah actually I could not complain to much ah in comparancy to other places
I were before, Flossenburg was not too bad for me.
No, no, I could not, I could not say ah say.
I, I worked hard.
I was in a danger, because ah, there, if something did something wrong
on the, on the wings, and the Halle 11.
The, there, there were, there were no excuses.
The only excuses was to, to, to got beated.
And they were beated by a Schlauch fulled up with, with ah, ah rivets.
And ah some of them you get about ten, fifteen ah of this ah of beated by this Schlauchs,
you never get up again.
And ah it were, there were no excuses there.
It was very brutal.
You have to be according to it.
You have to do it proper.
Because if you don't do it proper, the only thing you get beated and very brutal.
IV: So, beside the work, how was the situation in the camp in the last year?
So, I think you saw a lot what happened to other people.
How was the food, ah the situation in the barracks?
NF: Ah, not, not so bad.
I do.., I don't remember it too bad.
I mean considering we were in camps.
It was not a {laughing}, not a, ah four stars hotel {laughing}, you know.
So, I could not personally, beside ah having a very hard work and very,
you have to be very concentrated on work.
I mean, to avoid getting beated.
So, me and my friend, we were very devoted to do the job as required.
Not be, not be enthusiastic, but required according to required and do it well.
So, to, to ah to eliminate to being beated, because the, no excuses.
It was ah this, that was the only way that make, to keep it very brutal.
IV: So can you remember things like the daily meeting on the Appellplatz and so?
So many people told, told me during this, the last month the situation was very like chaotic,
because more and more people came to Flossenbürg.
NF: Yes. Yes.
IV: There was no food, and many people they were very weak and sick.
NF: Yeah, yes.
IV: Dying, brought to the crematory.
So are there things you can remember you saw beside you?
NF: I re.., I remember only the ah crematorium was close
I remember I, ah we pract.., every day I could see the ah creamtorium.
And every day was ah new bodies brought from somewhere,
I don't know, dead bodies to be buried in the crematorium, from other places.
They used to brought them to Flossenbürg, because here was ah the crematorium.
So only there I could see every day.
Food, I don't remember mainly, because I was very selective in food.
I was very ah, very ah you know, I stood ahead
to know what is good for me and what's n.., bad for me.
But ah I don't remember ah suffering specially ah on because of food.
I don't remember my, I know that the day I was liberated
ah I went on a scale and I was fourty-seven kilo {laughing}.
Fourty-seven kilo {laughing}, like so skinny.
And ah the first thing we were recovered was in Flossenbürg.
And not in Flossenbürg, in ah Neunburg.
I don't remember that, that a, ah, that family, a farmer in Neunburg
who welcomed us and gives us food to recover.
We were three of us at this ah farmer.
I don't remember name and I don't know, if I would recognize even the house {laughing}.
Ah, I don't know, but that was in, in Neunburg.
I used to go, later on I used to come to Weiden to get ah rations for food, you know?
IV: Yeah.
NF: In Weiden you has, ah, rations, ah.
IV: Rationen.
NF: Ex.., exactly, I went to the ah city home, city ah, city office.
And they give us ah, ah cards for, for food, here in Weiden, again.
We were..
IV: Well, let's continue this story, you came back fro..,
two, you've been two weeks to Poland?
NF: Yeah.
IV: And then..
NF: And then I come back.
IV: ..to avoid to join the army, you came, went back to Germany?
NF: Wen.., went back to, to Germany.
I, the first thing, I ended up at Potsdam in Berlin.
And from Potsdam I went to, I want to go back to Frankfurt.
Ah, because I had in, near Frankfurt was ah Zeilsheim DP camp.
So I was ah get.., getting there.
And there we start ah, was ah some kind ah, already organizing ah young boys,
to prepare them to, to be se.., ah, to be sent to Israel.
And my, my destination was, in my wing, to get to Israel is, as, as early as possible.
So from ah, from Po.., from Berlin I get to Frankfurt and Frankfurt Zeilsheim.
I get in Zeilsheim, Zeilsheim was at ah, Joint, was already active there, it was already
ah, they give us ah lectures and ah studies, all kind of studies in, in Zeilsheim.
And in, from Zeilsheim we were already controlled by the, {clearing the throat}
you know the, ah, the British army, there was a, ah, a Jewish ah group of soldiers,
in the British army was the, ah, Israelis, most of them.
We are, them, I, I made a first a.., ah, ah, letter or I do..,
I think it was a letter to send to, to my aunt, in, in Israel,
that I, I, that I'm, I'm alive {laughing}.
That was the first notice from me for them that I'm alive
and I'm in, that I'm in Zeilsheim and I'm trying to get ah, to back,
ah trying to, to do the first support to (???) to go to Israel.
And ah so the first attempt going out from Zeilsheim to Israel
was going to Belgium and from Belgium to France
and from France to go on on a ship illegal to, to Israel.
So this attempt ended up at the border between German and Belgium.
Ah, we were on military trucks from the Jewish brigade, Jewish brigade at the Britsh army
and we were like a covered you know in a truck.
When we get to the border, so the control, British control {laughing} ask ah:
"What, what are you carrying?"
And ah they didn't accept what was on the records.
They start to see, that was a bunch of young people like we are.
They said: "No, you cannot go, you cannot pass."
So I have to go back.
So we were released.
We went back to Hannover, from Hannover to Frankfurt and back to Zeilsheim.
And then the {clearing the throat}, after a while was a second attempt
who went via Austria, Alps, by the Alps to Italy.
So we ended up at ah Rivoli, Rivoli at Rivoli in Italy.
And from Rivoli were about ah, from Rivoli then to,
to a place called Ladispoli near, near Rome.
And after a while, later, we was brought to, to ah, ah station near the mediteranean sea.
And ah, and then we get on a, on a ship called
"Mordea Getaod" - Ghetto's Rebellion, Ghetto rebellions.
And of course the British discovered us in middle of the ocean.
And ah it was ah, it was in 1947, yes, in, in '47 and ah I ended up in Cyprus {laughing}.
I could see Israel only {laughing}.
The Mountains of Carmel, in Carmel Mountains only from the,
ah, from the British, on a British ah, ah, ship carrying us to Cyprus.
And ah I was in Cyprus almost about eight month.
And ah, my aunt, she was so anxious to, to get me out from Cyprus.
She, she knew that I'm already in Cyprus, because the first notice was from Germany.
And ah I don't know, she has a ah a son in my age.
So, she, and she, she flew over from Tel Aviv on a little Piper Cub you know,
ah hired it, hi.., Piper Cub with a pilot.
He brought her to Cyprus and come and get up to the British control and said
she wants to get out me as her son.
But they didn't accept it {laughing}.
They didn't accept it, but she visit me in th ca.., in the camp.
But ah I couldn't get out with her.
But later on the end, in, it was in April, also in the beginning of April,
ah, I was released from Cyprus as the ah young, younger group and we ended up to Tel Aviv port.
Tel Aviv port was already no British there.
The British were already con.., ah the ah the last ah prepation before leaving Israel
they were on in Haifa, more north.
And Tel Aviv was already controlled by, by Israel.
But before establishing Israel, Is.., Israel was established in May.
But this was in April, but ah we already, was, ah coming there.
Now of course it was ah, I met my family, there already, it was in April.
So this ah pesach, I mean you know ah, our easter
I was already ce.., celebrating with my family in, in Tel Aviv again.
And right after it, ah, before, before the declaration of ah Israel,
I already wanted to join the, join the army.
So I we.., I went, I went to ah to, to join the Israeli army.
So they start to ask of my background of profession or what do I know.
I said, I'm already {laughing} qualified on a Messerschmitt {laughing}.
So, {clearing the throat} "Messerschmitt qualified - Israeli Air Force right away" {laughing}.
So I joined the Israeli Air Force and at that time we start to bring dismanteld Messerschmitts from Czechoslovakia.
You know, the Czechs they get, they were sub-controlled by Messerschmitt.
And they also build at the Messerschmitt in Czechia.
Not only in Germany, also in Czechia builded Messerschmitt 109.
And then, and they b.., and they sold us Mes.., the Messerschmitt.
They were brought to Israel in, in parts.
And we had to assembly them.
We assembly them and put it into service {laughing}.
And, and then, and they were as, as, ah interceptors.
IV: So the, the first ah planes in the Israelian army were Messerschmitts?
NF: Messerschmitts, Messerschmitt and also we start to collect ah
from ah leftover from the British airport ah British bases in Israel.
There were two bases in ak.., one in South and one in, in North.
And we went there, we start to collect some pieces.
We built it up from nothing, one Spitfire,
one Spitfire with the help, with the help from Canadian engineers
and Britain, you know were ah, ah volunteers.
They come to, to help us in the way.
And we build it up one mel.., one a Spitfire.
And the problem is, was, ah the Spitfire has a engine,
a British engine and we wanted to put down ah an American from ah
the, our goal was to take ah an engine from a Mustang to put it on, on a, on a spitfire.
They succeeded with the help of some engineers.
And the, to put it down yeah, and we assembled one spitfire from nothing, from scrap.
And it flew, and it, ah, and it worked {laughing}.
That was an interesting part, very interesting, I mean
to combine a Merlin, Spitfire had a Merlin engine, British Merlin, you know, Merlin engine.
And the Mustang was ah Pratt & Whitney, Pratt & Whitney with ah, an American engine.
But ah to make a combination between the two engines, from Pratt & Whitney and Merlin,
it was quite ah brilliant work!
And ah, and it worked.
It flewed a long time the, that Spitfire.
But ah, the, the most ah the interceptors were the Messerschmitt 109.
IV: So and later on, you stood with the army or you (???)
NF: I, I, I to.., I took, yes, yes, I, I took, I was with the army ah, beside that, that time they ask
who, after eighteen months being in service, they ask us to continue for another, another year.
Ah as paid, as, as a professional.
So I was, was ah instead of two years I was ah serving three years in Israeli army.
And when I get out from Israeli army, I joined El Al.
I start to work as an aircraft ah mechanic for El Al.
And ah I worked in El Al for about three years.
Und denn, wenn es, ah they build up the Israeli Industries, ah Bedek, the Israeli Aircraft Industries,
I joined, ah Israeli American ah Israeli Aircraft Industries for about thirty-two years.
I used to work there {laughing}.
With.., I mean, the beginning of the Umschulung ah wi.., with Heinkel
continued my life and at this profession with ah as an aircraft engineer.
I was also a flight engineer, ah flight ah group.
And a lot of things we, we were also in South America for five years
representing Israeli Aircraft Industries, working on Boeing air.., airplanes
in, as an instructor, an technician.
And a head of a group.
So we were three years in Ecuador and almost two years in Bolivia,
we were as representative of Israel Aircraft Industries.
I was also a representative what they called Cono Sur, I mean the, the ah
South, South part of the continent, which ah includes Brazil, Argentina and Chile.
They call it Cono Sur, I mean, there it's like a cone, you know there,
when you see it on in the map, the end of it is like a corn, a triangle.
IV: So starting this new life in Israel, ah,
how did you manage ah remembering the past?
Did you try to forget everything?
NF: I cou.., I couldn't speak up.
Ah, my, my kids did know nothing about it.
Not my wife, my wife she is born in Israel.
And ah she didn't know nothing, I, I think she knows now for the interviews more than {laughing}.
I also wrote a book, in Hebrew I wrote a book about my own experience, yeah, as much I could remember.
And ah, but ah, my kids, until they grew up, I never, I never talk about it.
I'd never talk about, I couldn't speak up.
Today its more easier for me ah to be, if you would have interviewed me, you, about twenty years ago,
I would not be able to talk it about it.
IV: When did it change?
When, that you have you start talking about it?
NF: When, about five, I mean, ah last, you know, you getting older.
I'm, I'm already you know I'm today I'm eighty-six years old.
And ah with the time you know, you are more settled,
well it's a time to, to speak up a little bit, yeah.
IV: So and you, so in Israel there are a lot of ah Holocaust survivors living there, in, in..?
NF: Yes there are.
IV: Also in the daily culture and the political culture..
NF: Yeah.
IV: Holocaust is a big topic, always to remember.
And you didn't had any contact with other survivors?
NF: Yes, sure.
IV: But..
NF: A lot of su.., yes, I we.., I'm all the time in, in contact with me.., survivors.
IV: But you didn't talk about?
NF: Yes, today everybody talks a bit.
Today, you know, with the time..
IV: But in the beginning?
NF: Beginning? {shaking head} I didn't were, most of our, my friend didn't talk too much about it.
We, we, either by, by myself, I wanted to forget.
I want.., I had ah light mares, nightmares.
Not once, many times, my wife is, wakes me up when I got a nightmare up today.
But in beginning, no, it was just out.
I had nightmares more in laters years than in beginning. Yeah.
IV: And how did you feel yesterday, coming back?
NF: Very interesting, very interesting, very interesting, I,
I was looking to see, you know, I asked all the time:
"I want to see the Steinbruch. Where is the Steinbruch?" {laughing}
Then I see, you cannot see it (???).
Also the uphill where the, where the barracks was, today is inhabitated.
People are living there, yeah. Yeah.
IV: And did you take you to this Steinbruch yesterday?
NF: No {laughing}, we went to ah, Anna told me, yeah, it's right here, it's right here.
But we didn't get ah closer to it, actually.
IV: I think you will have a chance the next days.
NF: Today I think we are going to be in Schwarzenfeld as well.
I think so, to.., because ah the schedule for today is Neunburg and also Schwarzenfeld.
IV: Yeah, well, then thank you very much for..
NF: You're welcome.
IV: ...sharing your experience.
NF: Yeah, thank you, I hope I ah, it was interesting for you.
IV: Very interesting, yes.
NF: For you to see.
But ah I want ah to impress my ah, thankfull and ah appreciation what Anna and ah Anna Andlauer..
and also Sylvia ah Menschmeka, Menschmeier, Sylvia Münchmeier
IV: I don't know her. I know Anna Andlauer.
NF: Anna and also Sylvia Münchmeier, which I'm in contact with them via emails.
They do a holy work, I appreciate.
I really have full, full, full sympathy, what they are doing.
And I understand that, the ah, the most of the expenses everything is covered.
And the expenses is only by donation of people.
People or firms donating I mean to, to make that reunion.
And also like yesterday I said, most people knows about Dachau ah Auschwitz,
but Flossenbürg not many people knows about it.
You know, it's not so popular.
IV: Now it's changing.
NF: It's changing now? Because,
IV: Ten years ago, we called it the forgotten camp.
NF: Because of, of people like Anna and ah Sylvia Münchmeier, what they are doing.
I mean, and you, you are bringing Flossenbürg to the media, to the media
to people to know that not only Dachau and ah Hers.., and Auschwitz was.
There was also Flossenbürg, right behind.
IV: But also Hersbruck. Now is in Hersbruck this (???) to remember this year.
NF: Yeah, you, you, you, you heared before about Hersbruck, before?
IV: Yeah, because it's, we are living in Nürnberg.
NF: Ah, you live in Nürnberg.
IV: And also, also friends of us, together with us, they started
twenty years ago making films, videos about..
NF: About, about, yeah..
IV: So in this village (???), we don't want to hear about it, so it, but now, now is..
NF: Is getting more, more.
I, I hope I, I made some contribution to your knowledge about, about Hersbruck and about Flossenbürg.
Whatever I could personally, personally experience, I mean.
I hope so and I'm, and I'm ah, that's why I'm so, I'm cooperating with you,
whoever ask me, please, no problem, I'm, I'm ready to speak up {laughing}.
IV: Thank you very much.
NF: You're welcome.
IV: Okay, then we make..
FF: I want to mention, maybe I asked you things..