1 00:00:00,700 --> 00:00:08,099 SB: Took a shower and, and, slept. Ruheta...quiet in the evening, we went out, for a walk. 2 00:00:08,100 --> 00:00:12,299 Normally it was quiet in the room. 3 00:00:12,300 --> 00:00:19,366 The next morning the man made us breakfast, not the woman. 4 00:00:19,367 --> 00:00:26,332 What I imagine: The wife came home and asked him: "What happened there with the people?" 5 00:00:26,333 --> 00:00:30,332 "Look out," he said, "totally normal." 6 00:00:30,333 --> 00:00:35,732 The woman saw that we were normal people. 7 00:00:35,733 --> 00:00:42,966 Then she went to...spoke and talked and conversed and asked. 8 00:00:42,967 --> 00:00:52,866 The woman is antisemite. Why? She is antisemite. Who never saw a Jew in her entire life. 9 00:00:52,867 --> 00:01:02,132 She believed: "God forbid. Three Jews! Why have they come to my house. What is happening in my house?" 10 00:01:02,133 --> 00:01:06,799 But she saw that it was totally normal. 11 00:01:06,800 --> 00:01:10,899 I was once in Todtnau. 12 00:01:10,900 --> 00:01:19,999 Yes, that was in the 1980s. An older woman...very friendly woman...was speaking with me. 13 00:01:20,000 --> 00:01:24,966 Then she asked me... 14 00:01:24,967 --> 00:01:29,266 She asked me, I had told her that I was in the camps and so on. 15 00:01:29,267 --> 00:01:32,999 Not uh, why. Just that I was in the camps. 16 00:01:33,000 --> 00:01:39,666 She asks me: "Tell me, after all that happened in Gemrany with the Jews, 17 00:01:39,667 --> 00:01:45,399 how could you come to Germany and speak to the Germans?" 18 00:01:45,400 --> 00:01:50,732 I asked her: "Listen, I am not a Nazi." 19 00:01:50,733 --> 00:01:56,866 I am a, a person. I don't hate the German people. 20 00:01:56,867 --> 00:02:04,432 I can't hate you and I can't hate your daughter. They didn't do anything bad to me. 21 00:02:04,433 --> 00:02:14,699 I only hate those that did something, did something. But I can't hate the entire German people. 22 00:02:14,700 --> 00:02:21,832 I was also in Austria...was a...I don't remember, no doubt you know his name. 23 00:02:21,833 --> 00:02:29,466 He looked for all the Germans, the criminals. His office was in Vienna. Do you know who that was? 24 00:02:29,467 --> 00:02:30,166 IV: Wiesenthal. 25 00:02:30,167 --> 00:02:35,499 SB: Wiesenthal...Wiesenthal. Held a talk with an Austrian. 26 00:02:35,500 --> 00:02:44,232 And he said to him: "Listen, I cannot be friends with you. Because...all were not. 27 00:02:44,233 --> 00:02:50,566 I can't say that everyone was a Nazi. But in every family someone was a Nazi. 28 00:02:50,567 --> 00:03:02,732 And you uh...You...after the Nazis you want to do something bad...how can I? 29 00:03:02,733 --> 00:03:09,232 He says: No, you are wrong. I am not searching for Nazis, I know who were Nazis...many Nazis. 30 00:03:09,233 --> 00:03:14,166 I am looking for the criminals. Not the Nazis. 31 00:03:14,167 --> 00:03:16,499 And that is the difference. 32 00:03:16,500 --> 00:03:21,632 IV: I wanted to know something else...You were in Waging here in '47. 33 00:03:21,633 --> 00:03:22,399 SB:Yes. 34 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:30,099 IV: How did it happen that you went to Israel. How did you make that decision? Was it by chance? 35 00:03:30,100 --> 00:03:31,632 Uh, how did it continue. 36 00:03:31,633 --> 00:03:32,999 SB: You see... 37 00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:34,399 IV: Because you must have asked yourself: "What am I going to do?" 38 00:03:34,400 --> 00:03:42,399 SB: You see, it was like this: When we were still in Poland... 39 00:03:42,400 --> 00:03:48,966 There was antisemitism in Poland...very very strong. 40 00:03:48,967 --> 00:03:56,132 I, as a boy, a child, I didn't know what Palestine was. 41 00:03:56,133 --> 00:04:03,032 But the Poles always said: "Żydzi do Palestyny" - "Jews to Palestine." 42 00:04:03,033 --> 00:04:12,966 The youth...the Jewish youth in Poland were already in the Zionist Party before the war. 43 00:04:12,967 --> 00:04:22,966 They were party people and they aimed to go to Palestine. To leave Poland and come to Palestine. 44 00:04:22,967 --> 00:04:28,366 And in every house there was a can from Keren Kayemeth. 45 00:04:28,367 --> 00:04:35,832 Keren Kayemeth, that was from...in Palestine, people who had bought land from the Arabs. 46 00:04:35,833 --> 00:04:40,932 So in our house there was a blue-white...our flag is blue-white. 47 00:04:40,933 --> 00:04:48,732 And the can was blue-white. And every day...every time the father and in every house put money in it. 48 00:04:48,733 --> 00:05:00,266 From time to time someone would come and take the money out. And it was sent to...back then to Palestine. And... 49 00:05:00,267 --> 00:05:12,332 And then it was '37, '35, when it began, there were many from Germany, from Austria, left for Palestine. 50 00:05:12,333 --> 00:05:20,532 Many German Jews, left for Palestine. And the youth, the Polish youth also went to Palestine. 51 00:05:20,533 --> 00:05:28,199 The British limited the uh...how many Jews could enter...because the Arabs were against them. 52 00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:36,966 So the British restricted. Then before the war they...it was called Alija Bet. 53 00:05:36,967 --> 00:05:43,499 Leftists uh, leftists they ...uh. uh. 54 00:05:43,500 --> 00:05:51,766 Bought ships and took people to Palestine without permission from the British. 55 00:05:51,767 --> 00:05:55,666 That was before the war. 56 00:05:55,667 --> 00:06:01,566 After the war, our plan was still Palestine. We could go to America. 57 00:06:01,567 --> 00:06:06,066 We could go to Canada, to Australia. 58 00:06:06,067 --> 00:06:11,399 There was a commission in Föhrenwald...When I was in Föhrenwald someone said: 59 00:06:11,400 --> 00:06:14,966 "Do you want to go to Palestine. Where, where to you want to go? 60 00:06:14,967 --> 00:06:18,199 We said to Palestine. 61 00:06:18,200 --> 00:06:28,166 When I went to bid farewell to my girlfriend in Waging... 62 00:06:28,167 --> 00:06:32,399 and said I was leaving for Palestine, her mother said to me: 63 00:06:32,400 --> 00:06:40,399 "Salek, stay here. Palestine is always war, always, always, always. Stay here." 64 00:06:40,400 --> 00:06:48,766 I answered her. "Miss Christel, I want to go home. I've had enough. 65 00:06:48,767 --> 00:06:54,399 I don't want to go to America, I don't want to go to Canada, I don't want to go to Australia, I want... 66 00:06:54,400 --> 00:07:03,732 I want...I have in Palestine...For us Eretz Israel...I want to go home." 67 00:07:03,733 --> 00:07:06,766 Then we decided. 68 00:07:06,767 --> 00:07:15,899 Came again with a ship to Palestine. 69 00:07:15,900 --> 00:07:25,999 One day before Palestine an airplane...English...saw that it was a ship...not legal. 70 00:07:26,000 --> 00:07:36,566 is next...after two hours two cruise ships...large ships...grabbed us and dragged us to Haifa. 71 00:07:36,567 --> 00:07:43,766 We arrived in Haifa...before Haifa, the British came on to the ship. 72 00:07:43,767 --> 00:07:54,599 And us...took us from our ship to the ...to the British ship brought us to Cypern. 73 00:07:54,600 --> 00:08:04,366 And then it was...1500 people a month were allowed to come to Palestine officially. 74 00:08:04,367 --> 00:08:11,899 Then 750 came from Europe and 750 came from Cypern. 75 00:08:11,900 --> 00:08:16,832 We came to Cypern and from Cypern was...lots of ships. 76 00:08:16,833 --> 00:08:20,866 Which ship arrived today, were you the first, later, later... 77 00:08:20,867 --> 00:08:27,999 Many ships came before us. We were 14 months in Cypern. 78 00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:39,566 In the camp with barbed wire, without water, without electricity, without anything, living in barracks...metal barracks. 79 00:08:39,567 --> 00:08:48,699 That was...summer...it was in summer, sheet metal in summer...The climate in Cypern was the same as in Israel. 80 00:08:48,700 --> 00:08:56,399 It was very bad. And the winter, it rained. Just imagine, the rain falling on the sheet metal. 81 00:08:56,400 --> 00:09:03,332 But we were young, the aim was...to get to Palestine. 82 00:09:03,333 --> 00:09:07,666 And we got to Palestine, it was very hard. 83 00:09:07,667 --> 00:09:18,332 Palestine back then was a desert. There was nothing. 84 00:09:18,333 --> 00:09:27,632 And then the war began...'48, of course we went to the army, all three. 85 00:09:27,633 --> 00:09:37,732 And Roma is...he got married, was released from the military for a year and a few months. 86 00:09:37,733 --> 00:09:42,599 But I was two years, a full two years in the military. 87 00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:48,999 And released from the military after two years. I got married. 88 00:09:49,000 --> 00:09:57,699 Lived with my mother-in-law and two brother-in-laws in two rooms. 89 00:09:57,700 --> 00:10:05,699 It was very hard. It was not, we were not hungry, there was enough bread. 90 00:10:05,700 --> 00:10:14,966 But besides bread...butter and milk and uh, eggs and meat, that was all on cards. 91 00:10:14,967 --> 00:10:21,666 There was not...tomatoes, potatoes..was not enough for the people. 92 00:10:21,667 --> 00:10:30,332 Because then came....we are speaking of refugees...Arab refugees. 93 00:10:30,333 --> 00:10:32,766 We had more refugees. 94 00:10:32,767 --> 00:10:43,499 Came to us in Israel from Tunisia, from Morocco, from Libya, from Iraq, from Teheran. 95 00:10:43,500 --> 00:10:50,766 From all these countries they came to Israel. They left everything behind. But... 96 00:10:50,767 --> 00:10:54,099 It was very hard. The people didn't have an apartment, 97 00:10:54,100 --> 00:11:05,599 In winter they...summer they slept in barracks or there ...from, from... 98 00:11:05,600 --> 00:11:11,999 In the winter there was rain...they just slept in the water. 99 00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:21,299 But slowly, slowly, the government had all...we got help. That was right. 100 00:11:21,300 --> 00:11:28,699 The help came for...it wasn't stolen. The help came for the people. 101 00:11:28,700 --> 00:11:36,832 All that, the entire aid that came to Israel...houses were built and villages built. 102 00:11:36,833 --> 00:11:45,866 People are in villages...they have never...no idea from, from village, life in a village and uh... 103 00:11:45,867 --> 00:11:50,066 Slowly we uh... 104 00:11:50,067 --> 00:11:56,866 Did everything. And now we can afford to export. 105 00:11:56,867 --> 00:12:03,466 Everything. We have more than we need. 106 00:12:03,467 --> 00:12:13,132 IV: What was it like for you, now, to come to Flossenbürg and see it again. 107 00:12:13,133 --> 00:12:24,066 SB: That is difficult to explain. That is difficult to explain. One thing I knew...I wanted to see it again. 108 00:12:24,067 --> 00:12:28,166 How, how it looks. 109 00:12:28,167 --> 00:12:36,866 Well Flossenbürg was the third camp that I had seen. I was...in Dachau and I was in Mauthausen. 110 00:12:36,867 --> 00:12:38,532 I was in Mauthausen alone. 111 00:12:38,533 --> 00:12:46,332 But I was in Dachau with my daughter, with her husband and my grandchildren. 112 00:12:46,333 --> 00:12:55,999 It was very hard. It was very hard and the one, Mosche, my grandchild... 113 00:12:56,000 --> 00:13:06,332 After he was outside of Dachau, he started to cry so hard. We were not able to comfort him. Ah... 114 00:13:06,333 --> 00:13:14,566 It is hard that...you see...many of us travel to Auschwitz. 115 00:13:14,567 --> 00:13:18,599 Were you in Auschwitz? Yes. 116 00:13:18,600 --> 00:13:28,566 When you go to Auschwitz and see the hair with the glasses and the shoes. 117 00:13:28,567 --> 00:13:37,599 That is all...with the suitcases, with the names of people. That is horrible. 118 00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:50,432 But, ok...I can't say don't forg...for me it is not forgotten...I do not forget. 119 00:13:50,433 --> 00:13:56,999 In 1982 I 120 00:13:57,000 --> 00:14:03,666 I traveled with a member of my cooperative. He was my uh member. 121 00:14:03,667 --> 00:14:12,666 He knew me as member and was...who I am, what I am. But right... 122 00:14:12,667 --> 00:14:19,832 As we were travelling he asked me: "Tell me, from what kind of family do you come?" 123 00:14:19,833 --> 00:14:30,399 I said: "See, my father was an orthodox..and uh" 124 00:14:30,400 --> 00:14:35,499 I explained to him about my home, how it was, what happened. 125 00:14:35,500 --> 00:14:46,399 He asks me: "So today do you still remember your family and what happened?" 126 00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:53,966 I said to him: "Alex, you know what? Today more than in '45, 1945." 127 00:14:53,967 --> 00:15:04,499 In 1944 it was very hard for me, but I had...I was a child, a boy. 128 00:15:04,500 --> 00:15:16,366 And maybe, maybe I didn't know...exactly how it was. 129 00:15:16,367 --> 00:15:19,999 Maybe. Uh.. 130 00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:27,166 But now more...Now when I clear my thoughts... 131 00:15:27,167 --> 00:15:31,832 I never forget...never forget, that is not possible. 132 00:15:31,833 --> 00:15:40,599 But today when I, today...and I explain...the people went to the train station. 133 00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:51,699 They went from the station into the train and drove to the extermination camp. 134 00:15:51,700 --> 00:16:01,232 Without water, in the month of August, in the heat. In every car... 135 00:16:01,233 --> 00:16:11,399 Maximum filled...I don't say 100, I don't say 120, but maximum of people how many people can fit into a wagon. 136 00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:23,832 Not sitting, not sleeping. I don't know how long the people traveled before they arrived in the camp. 137 00:16:23,833 --> 00:16:33,966 What happened it ...it is not...to be discussed. But this time.... 138 00:16:33,967 --> 00:16:48,666 I told him, listen, we were liberated. Across from us was a woman, Frau Blättler. was a dentist. 139 00:16:48,667 --> 00:17:01,466 Frau Blättler was...was very fond of us, you could say. She had great respect for us. 140 00:17:01,467 --> 00:17:06,299 Rosch ha Schana, that is our new year. 141 00:17:06,300 --> 00:17:13,666 Our new year is not on the first of January, our new year is now...in our new year. 142 00:17:13,667 --> 00:17:23,666 So uh, that is September 30 is our new year. 143 00:17:23,667 --> 00:17:27,932 We told the woman that it is our new year. 144 00:17:27,933 --> 00:17:33,699 The woman said: "You know what? I didn't...I can't.. no possibility... 145 00:17:33,700 --> 00:17:40,366 But if you bring me the products, I will make you a good supper." 146 00:17:40,367 --> 00:17:42,566 We said: "Ok, Thank you." 147 00:17:42,567 --> 00:17:50,299 So we brought uh, not me, we brought." 148 00:17:50,300 --> 00:17:59,132 It was one room...everyone lived together. It was one room, I lived in this room. 149 00:17:59,133 --> 00:18:09,732 In the second room...was a large room, she had a table and all the food. 150 00:18:09,733 --> 00:18:15,466 I dressed up for the supper and I entered the room 151 00:18:15,467 --> 00:18:28,866 And I saw the table with the white table cloth, with plates and food on the table. And I looked at it... 152 00:18:28,867 --> 00:18:32,832 And couldn't go in. 153 00:18:32,833 --> 00:18:45,566 I couldn't go in. 154 00:18:45,567 --> 00:18:51,032 Then the brother came: "Salek, come in." I couldn't, didn't go in. 155 00:18:51,033 --> 00:18:56,066 I didn't eat the supper. I couldn't. 156 00:18:56,067 --> 00:19:11,366 That was after the liberation, uh four, five months. Just couldn't. 157 00:19:11,367 --> 00:19:17,332 That is my past. 158 00:19:17,333 --> 00:19:19,999 IV: Thank you. 159 00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:26,466 SB: I thank you for listening. 160 00:19:26,467 --> 00:19:37,432 And I thank you for doing this because it is very important. 161 00:19:37,433 --> 00:19:48,132 It is very important for everyone. It is very important for us Jews. And it is important for Germany. 162 00:19:48,133 --> 00:19:52,999 And not only for Germany. For everyone. 163 00:19:53,000 --> 00:20:05,332 Sadly after the war many were ....hundreds, thousands of people died. 164 00:20:05,333 --> 00:20:14,999 Was in Biafra and was in Africa and here and there. Was in, in Yugoslavia. 165 00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:20,332 That shouldn't be. That has to be prevented. 166 00:20:20,333 --> 00:20:39,832 And the youth have to make sure that what happened back then never never happens again. Thank you. 167 00:20:39,833 --> 00:20:44,733 IV: End.