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IV: Today is Friday, July 20, 2012.

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We are in Weiden in the Upper Palatinate in Hotel Admira. 

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My name is Michael Aue from the Medienwerkstatt Franken. 

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And we are now conducting this interview on behalf of the Flossenbürg concentration camp memorial with Hanna Dori, who comes from the Czech Republic. 

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And who during the time of the camps was in Oederan. 

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And who now lives in Israel. 

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HD: Good. 

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So my name in Hana Drori, born Polak, or Polakova. 

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Born in Prague on November 4, 1931. 

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I spent my childhood in a small town where my parents had an estate.

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We were sent away from there in the beginning of the German...

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IV: Occupation. 

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HD: ...occupation. 

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And then we went to Prague. 

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Because many people, many parts of our famly lived there. 

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And I was first went to my aunt, who had children around my age. 

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And one could still go to school there. 

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So I went to school with a...my...cousins. 

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Then they left, emigrated, immigrated to Palestine, today's Israel. 

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And I went... because my parents were divorced. 

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And my mother lived in Prague, too. 

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And had built a nice villa with her sister in Prague. 

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And when this aunt left with the family for Palestine, I went to my mother. 

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Since the villa was already built. 

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But then the SS saw that it was a Jewish villa...and it was perfect for a high-level officer of the SS:  

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So...his name was Karl Rahm and later became commandant of the Terezin Ghetto. Theresienstadt. 

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And then I went back to my uncle, but he died. 

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Then I went to my last aunt. 

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And that is where I stayed until my father...was sent to Theresienstadt. 

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With a group of young people to built the ghetto. 

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And after six months I arrived with my aunt and uncle in Theresienstadt. 

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I was there for two years until fall 1944. 

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And then the ghetto was almost completely liquidated because ... the German army had already ... already known that war...that the war was not going to continue. 

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And that they no longer need this ghetto. 

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And then we were sent to...to Auschwitz. To...

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IV: May I ask a quick question?

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What had happened to your mother by this time?

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HD: Yes, my...my mother had been deported with the first transport of...Jewish transport of ...of Jews from Prague to the LItzmannstadt Ghetto, Lodz. 

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And I never heard from her again. 

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I have tried my entire life, to ask someome.. all the people who were in Lodz. 

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Someone who may have known here. 

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But I never found anyone. 

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My father was with me in Theresienstadt. 

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He was responsible there for the distribution .... bread distribution in the ghetto. 

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And through this I was... he was protected from the transports to Auschwitz., and I was protected through him.

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That is why we stayed there, until... so long.

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Because many other people had been sent away earlier. 

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IV: Could you describe the living conditions during these two years in Theresienstadt?

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HD: Yes, I can tell you about this too. 

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So... since the children were not allowed to live with the men...I couldn't live with my father. 

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And he knew this. 

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And he arranged a spot for me in a children's home. 

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In a girls' home, I should say. 

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And that is where I was the entire time. 

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In the beginning it was in the women's barracks. 

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They were called Hamburger Kaserne. 

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And then after a few weeks I fell ill. 

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I caught Scarlet Fever. 

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And I had to go to the hospital. 

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And when, after six weeks, I was able to leave there, a different girls' home was... uh made. 

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IV: Established.

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HD: Established.

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In a building that had once been a headquarters on the plaza, it was called L410. 

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And it was for girls who spoke Czeck of all different ages. 

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But there it was not like the...in the first one we were all together. 

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Big and small, maybe fifty girls. 

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But now in this L410, uh...there were rooms. 

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And in each room there were children of the same age. 

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Because they wanted us to be able to learn something. 

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It was strictly forbidden, learning. 

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The SS, there, had strictly forbidden it. 

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And we knew this. 

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We knew that if there was an inspection, that we had to quickly hide the papers and pencils and all our things. 

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And we had to sit down and do something that was allowed. 

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But the youth care agency, it was a...Theresienstadt had a Jewish administration. 

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It was called Elders Council and it was made up of many different parts. 

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And one part was the Youth Care. 

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And they really did everything in their power to ensure that we remain human. 

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That we keep the moral, that we maintain morality. 

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And that we learn something. 

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And...we didn't learn, not like in school.

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We didn't have any books and no workbooks. 

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And not even pencils or uh..

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Each one of us had to find, had to find what they could. 

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A piece of paper and a bit of pencil perhaps. 

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And so, even with the teachers it was not so easy. 

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Because there were constantly transports leaving for the east. 

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We knew that. 

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We didn't know where the transports were going. 

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And that is why we didn't always have the same teacher.

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So we learned in pieces.

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Sometimes it was a teacher of, say, mathematics, and then they sent him away. 

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And then they found another one, who taught us Latin. 

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And that's how we learned. 

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But we did learn. 

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And I think we even learned well. 

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Because after the war when I attended Gymnasium in Prague, I entered the class after, after...

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I had to take an exam and I passed it for the class of my age group. 

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We had caretakers there. 

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And they looked after us. 

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We sang together a lot.

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And in the beginning there was a lot of quarreling, too.

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You see, it was a room that was not very big. 

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Amd we had, had bunk beds over three levels. 

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And we were about thirty or maybe even more girls in this one room.

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So it was not that easy. 

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But one of the caretakers, she said to us: 

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"It can be done differently.

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If one wants... it is possible to understand the other girls better. 

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Even when they don't have the same opinion or the same...when they are different from you, for example...when...

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It is possible to accept people who are different and to live amicably together. 

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And then there wouldn't be such pandemonium with constant quarreling. 

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And we had the art in Theresienstadt as well.

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They brought Jews from all over central Europe to Theresienstadtand and later from Holland and Denmark too. 

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They brought them all.

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Even the artists and scholars. 

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And that is why...in the beginning the Germans forbid them from having concerts and lectures...

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And it was...

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That had to be done outside. 

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They had to stand at the gate, and if someone came...They had to stop. 

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And then they recognized that might help them. 

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Because in the world it was being said that the Jews...that the Germans were treating...the Jews

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IV: ...treating.

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HD: treating them very badly. 

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And maybe even killing them. 

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And they wanted to show the world how good the Jews were doing. 

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They had concerts, they had lectures and so on. 

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So it..they thought it could help them. 

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And so there was a lot, very much ...mostly music. 

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A few operas, just singing.  

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Of course there was no stage and all that wasn't there. 

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Because we didn't have any...the things that were needed, we didn't have them. 

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But there was singing. 

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And there wasn't any...orchestra. 

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So they accompanied on whatever they could find. 

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There was an old piano there. 

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And some people who had brought a flute or a violin with them, hidden among their things. 

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And so they played what they could. 

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And it was always very nice. 

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I recently heard...the Requiem von Verdi in Jerusalem

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They played it...so

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It was in memory of the...concert...the way it had been played in Theresienstadt. 

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It was done wonderfully. 

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One of my... of our caretakers, her name was Ella Polak. 

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We called her Tella, which was an abbreviation for Aunt Ella. 

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She was a musician. 

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And she played the accompaniment sometimes at rehearsals for the Requiem and also for operas...The Marriage of Figaro, for example.  

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And sometimes she took us children from the home so that we could turn the pages.

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IV: Turn.

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HD: Turn.

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And so we...I...

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These, yes, and the rehearsals, they were in our cellar. 

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There was a room there and there was an old harmonium.

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She accompanied on that. 

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She and also Gideon Klein, the musician Gideon Klein. And others. 

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And so I heard it many times and it...

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I know, I have to say that since then I know almost the entire Wedding of Figaro and the Requiem too. 

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And I love these two pieces. 

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And there was also the children's opera. 

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That existed in Theresienstadt, you may have heard that. 

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IV: Yes, I have heard about that. 

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HD: Yes...it was called Brundibär.

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And the children who could sing and wanted to sing were a part of it. 

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I was in it too. I was in the choir. 

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And since they were never really certain who would remain and who had to go, they had many different children learn the solo parts. 

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So that if...if one couldn't be there, there would always be someone else who could sing. 

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So I learned the solo part of the dog. 

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There were three, three animals there. 

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A bird -a sparrow- a cat and a dog. 

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And the dog, that was a part for alto, that is my voice. 

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So I studied that. 

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And I also sang it once. 

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Because the other one ..wasn't there.

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I was dog number five. 

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This time the first one couldn't be there, and the second one too, and the third one and the fourth one. 

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Don't know whether they had left on a transport or were sick...

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Once I sang...this role, the dog.  

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And otherwise I sang in the choir

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And this is how the time in Theresienstadt passed, and...

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IV: How was the food situation and everyday life?

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HD: Very bad. 

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IV: Hygiene situation?

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HD: Very bad. Very bad. 

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Because we were there during the time when the most people were there, we were almost 60,000 people on one square kilometer of the city. 

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So there was no hygiene. 

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There were good doctors there but they didn't have anything with which they could heal us. 

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And food...this is how it was with the food. 

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Every day it had to be reported...to the commanders's office how many people were in the ghetto. 

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How many had died and how many had left on transports. 

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And then they were given a certain amount of food. 

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And the, the SS made it easy for themselves.  

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They told the Council of Elders:

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"This is the food that you have for today."

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"We don't care how you distribute it." 

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"As far as I'm concerned," the commander said, "you can keep all the food for yourself and the others don't get any."  

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Of course that is not how they did it. 

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But they did it so that the young people and the children got a bit more than the others. 

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But even that tiny bit more was very, very little. 

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And it was very, very bad food. 

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And very little. 

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We were hungry the whole time. 

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But the poorest, they were the old people. 

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They were really, really unhappy with the...

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They were so hungry. 

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They were always...when the people came to the kitchen to pick up the food, they always stood on the side and asked the people: 

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"Should you not want the food could you get it for me?" 

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And then the, the empty large pots were on the side. 

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And then they scraped it out with a spoon. 

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Maybe there is still something to eat. 

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They were really...that was terrible to see. 

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And there were also many diseases. 

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Because the hygiene was so terrible and there were so many people living so close together. 

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And many people died there from hunger and disease. 

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IV: OK. Why don't you tell us how you left Theresienstadt. 

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HD: Ok. So in the fall of '44 in October...my father left. 

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Because the SS knew then that they didn't need anyone anymore in Theresienstadt. 

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Not even the man...who distributed the bread. 

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He was sent away and I so yearned to go to him. 

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Because I hoped I would meet up with him again there. 

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And 14 days later we also left on a transport. 

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My father had married Tella, our caretaker, in Theresienstadt. 

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Her name was Polak too so... she didn't have to change her name. 

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My first...first mother was also born Polak. 

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She didn't have to change her name either. 

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So we went on the transport with Tella. 

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And I was overjoyed. 

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And at that time the tracks went all the way to Theresienstadt. 

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When we arrived in Theresienstadt, the train only went to the town about three kilometers from Theresienstadt, Bohusovice. 

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We had to walk from there. 

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But now it was already {clears throat}...

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the train went all the way to Theresienstadt. 

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And they put us into wagons, cattle cars. 

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There were about 80 people in each wagon.

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With the luggage, everyone was allowed to bring something...a suitcase or a rucksack, whatever he had but not more than 50 kilo. 

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00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:46,466
That was a pile of...stuff. 

236
00:21:46,467 --> 00:21:50,966
And then the 80 people together. 

237
00:21:50,967 --> 00:21:57,666
It was dark because there were no windows in these...wagons. 

238
00:21:57,667 --> 00:22:04,366
There was a grid above so that a bit of air came in. 

239
00:22:04,367 --> 00:22:10,066
And that is how we traveled.

240
00:22:10,067 --> 00:22:11,832
I am not sure how long. 

241
00:22:11,833 --> 00:22:16,999
It was probably around two days.

242
00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:18,999
And we didn't know where we were going. 

243
00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:22,232
Because no one told us. 

244
00:22:22,233 --> 00:22:34,966
The SS knew that if they said we were going to a death camp there might be a revolt, a revolution or something

245
00:22:34,967 --> 00:22:37,666
They told us we were going to the east. 

246
00:22:37,667 --> 00:22:43,499
And to a work camp. 

247
00:22:43,500 --> 00:22:54,799
But then, suddenly, after a long journey, the train stopped during the night. 

248
00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:57,566
They pulled the doors open screamed. 

249
00:22:57,567 --> 00:22:59,132
"Out, out!

250
00:22:59,133 --> 00:23:00,599
Leave your things inside. 

251
00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:06,532
Men on one side, women and children on the other side. 

252
00:23:06,533 --> 00:23:09,432
Stand in rows."

253
00:23:09,433 --> 00:23:13,932
And we went to a crossing. 

254
00:23:13,933 --> 00:23:18,066
I was with Tella. 

255
00:23:18,067 --> 00:23:28,966
And with another girl who had been with us in the same room, in Room 28 in Theresienstadt in L410. 

256
00:23:28,967 --> 00:23:35,099
We went together and my aunt was there too. 

257
00:23:35,100 --> 00:23:46,432
And as we approached the crossing, there was a woman in front of us with a girl. 

258
00:23:46,433 --> 00:23:52,332
And she was qustioned by the man...the SS man who stood there. 

259
00:23:52,333 --> 00:23:59,132
And it was, we didn't learn this until later, that it was Dr. Mengele, it was his shift. 

260
00:23:59,133 --> 00:24:03,399
There were...always different people standing there. 

261
00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:12,566
And he asked this woman whether the child was already 14 years old and whether she was healthy. 

262
00:24:12,567 --> 00:24:18,499
And when the mother said yes, he sent them both to the right. 

263
00:24:18,500 --> 00:24:20,232
Tella heard that. 

264
00:24:20,233 --> 00:24:25,932
And we didn't know what left meant and we didn't know what right meant. 

265
00:24:25,933 --> 00:24:30,332
But she knew... she just wanted us to stay together. 

266
00:24:30,333 --> 00:24:33,732
And so she didn't wait to be asked. 

267
00:24:33,733 --> 00:24:38,332
Right away she said that I am already 14 years old and am still healthy. 

268
00:24:38,333 --> 00:24:40,332
Both were not..were not true. 

269
00:24:40,333 --> 00:24:42,699
I wasn't even 13 years old. 

270
00:24:42,700 --> 00:24:49,966
And I had gone through all the epidemics that had been in Theresienstadt. 

271
00:24:49,967 --> 00:24:52,599
But I was big and it was night. 

272
00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:53,932
One couldn't see very much. 

273
00:24:53,933 --> 00:24:56,666
And it probably wasn't that important to him. 

274
00:24:56,667 --> 00:25:01,832
He sent us both to the right. 

275
00:25:01,833 --> 00:25:04,999
And he asked the aunt how old she is. 

276
00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:07,032
And she said 51. 

277
00:25:07,033 --> 00:25:10,266
And he sent her to the left. 

278
00:25:10,267 --> 00:25:14,999
And then, when we were together with Tella on the right side, she said: 

279
00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:16,332
"You know what?"

280
00:25:16,333 --> 00:25:26,399
Maybe that was a...that is too bad that I said that you are older. 

281
00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:36,432
Perhaps if you had gone with your aunt, mayber on the left side there is a children's home and it might be a bit..."

282
00:25:36,433 --> 00:25:44,266
But one of the women who was with us who had been in Auschwitz for a long time...

283
00:25:44,267 --> 00:25:51,599
had been in Auschwitz-Birkenau of course,, that was the city where we were.

284
00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:53,499
She heard us and said: 

285
00:25:53,500 --> 00:25:57,066
"No, you shouldn't do that.

286
00:25:57,067 --> 00:26:00,832
You should not say that she is 14 years old either. 

287
00:26:00,833 --> 00:26:04,032
Say that she is 16 years old. 

288
00:26:04,033 --> 00:26:08,466
And she didn't explain why. 

289
00:26:08,467 --> 00:26:16,232
Then we went into a building, called...in Birkenau they it was called the sauna. 

290
00:26:16,233 --> 00:26:20,632
And in the sauna they took our clothes away.

291
00:26:20,633 --> 00:26:29,399
And they took our hair away. 

292
00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:36,466
And then...they forced us into a shower, a cold shower. 

293
00:26:36,467 --> 00:26:40,666
And there weren't any towels and it was cold. 

294
00:26:40,667 --> 00:26:44,766
It is very cold in Poland in October. 

295
00:26:44,767 --> 00:26:49,432
And I was one of the last ones in my group. 

296
00:26:49,433 --> 00:26:55,266
And when I came out of the shower I saw: 

297
00:26:55,267 --> 00:27:04,032
There were these creatures sitting on the side, I didn't have any idea what that was.  

298
00:27:04,033 --> 00:27:06,466
I thought maybe they were monkeys. 

299
00:27:06,467 --> 00:27:09,566
Without hair and so strange. 

300
00:27:09,567 --> 00:27:11,432
And I became hysterical. 

301
00:27:11,433 --> 00:27:15,966
I started to cry terribly. 

302
00:27:15,967 --> 00:27:21,466
And I always say, it is a miracle that I didn't go crazy then. 

303
00:27:21,467 --> 00:27:27,499
And then one of our caretakers came over to me and said: 

304
00:27:27,500 --> 00:27:29,999
"Why are you crying? 

305
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:31,166
It's just us.

306
00:27:31,167 --> 00:27:36,599
We don't have any hair, but we are the same people who you know." 

307
00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:39,466
And she calmed me down. 

308
00:27:39,467 --> 00:27:47,566
And then they threw us clothes from...

309
00:27:47,567 --> 00:27:53,166
Of course they didn't measure to see what fit. 

310
00:27:53,167 --> 00:27:57,232
And they sent us into a block. 

311
00:27:57,233 --> 00:28:02,332
With three level bunks, too. 

312
00:28:02,333 --> 00:28:04,732
But there were double beds there. 

313
00:28:04,733 --> 00:28:09,032
And there were six women on each double bed. 

314
00:28:09,033 --> 00:28:11,466
With a...without mattresses. 

315
00:28:11,467 --> 00:28:15,666
Just on a board. 

316
00:28:15,667 --> 00:28:18,599
And with one blanket for all six. 

317
00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:30,066
And when someone wanted to turn over, because it was really very hard, and after a while it was uncomfortable. 

318
00:28:30,067 --> 00:28:32,732
One of them wanted to turn to the other side. 

319
00:28:32,733 --> 00:28:35,866
Becasue it was pressing. 

320
00:28:35,867 --> 00:28:40,332
Then everyone, all six of us had to turn too. 

321
00:28:40,333 --> 00:28:43,732
It was like sardines. 

322
00:28:43,733 --> 00:28:46,699
But we didn't lie there a lot. 

323
00:28:46,700 --> 00:28:49,399
Because there were the roll calls. 

324
00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:59,832
Early in the morning, very early, and in the evening we had to stand outside for hours. 

325
00:28:59,833 --> 00:29:02,366
And they counted us. 

326
00:29:02,367 --> 00:29:04,299
I don't know why. 

327
00:29:04,300 --> 00:29:06,999
They probably didn't know why either. 

328
00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:11,832
It was just to make life a little more difficult. 

329
00:29:11,833 --> 00:29:18,399
All we had to eat...in the early morning we were given a black water. 

330
00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:23,066
It was a bit warm, that was at least something. 

331
00:29:23,067 --> 00:29:25,232
And in the evening we received soup. 

332
00:29:25,233 --> 00:29:27,832
We asked why we were not getting bread. 

333
00:29:27,833 --> 00:29:29,366
They said: 

334
00:29:29,367 --> 00:29:31,932
"You go to work.

335
00:29:31,933 --> 00:29:34,032
And you are only staying here a week. 

336
00:29:34,033 --> 00:29:37,699
That is why you don't get any bread." 

337
00:29:37,700 --> 00:29:43,732
And after a week they really did send us to a different camp. 

338
00:29:43,733 --> 00:29:46,399
Showered again, gave us different clothes. 

339
00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:57,599
And put us on a train, in the cattle cars.. uh wagons. 

340
00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:01,932
But they gave us bread. 

341
00:30:01,933 --> 00:30:03,332
And then we traveled. 

342
00:30:03,333 --> 00:30:08,032
And we arrived in Oederan. 

343
00:30:08,033 --> 00:30:15,032
And in Oederan we were....the train stopped...stopped and so. 

344
00:30:15,033 --> 00:30:19,966
We marched right into the factory. 

345
00:30:19,967 --> 00:30:24,999
And we stayed there for half a year. 

346
00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:30,432
Lived and worked and holding roll calls again...we were there all winter. 

347
00:30:30,433 --> 00:30:35,266
I celebrated my 13th birthday there. 

348
00:30:35,267 --> 00:30:37,732
IV: Was Nella still with you and the others from your group? 

349
00:30:37,733 --> 00:30:46,832
HD: Yes. Tella was with me and Helga, who...the other girl, who had come with us to, to Auschwitz, was also with us. 

350
00:30:46,833 --> 00:30:49,132
And she...she is my good friend. 

351
00:30:49,133 --> 00:30:51,499
She lives in Vienna now. 

352
00:30:51,500 --> 00:30:56,732
She had planned to come here but she was u able to at the last minute. 

353
00:30:56,733 --> 00:31:01,566
She didn't feel well or something. 

354
00:31:01,567 --> 00:31:06,032
Uh...so we we worked there in the factory. 

355
00:31:06,033 --> 00:31:13,432
It was a factory where cartridges were made for I don't know what.

356
00:31:13,433 --> 00:31:18,532
That was not...were...about this big. 

357
00:31:18,533 --> 00:31:26,532
And they were supposed to be filled and used in...the war. 

358
00:31:26,533 --> 00:31:33,632
But they probably weren't able to use...many of them.

359
00:31:33,633 --> 00:31:37,399
Because it was already near the end of the war. 

360
00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:45,999
And since the American front was very close and we couild hear the canons...we thought: 

361
00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:50,032
"Oh! Just a few more days and then we are free." 

362
00:31:50,033 --> 00:31:56,666
But they found enough Hitler Youth and who knows who else in Oederan. 

363
00:31:56,667 --> 00:32:00,999
They escorted us back to a train. 

364
00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:10,199
This time an open....train, the kind used to transport potatoes and so. 

365
00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:15,566
And we were on our way to Mauthausen. 

366
00:32:15,567 --> 00:32:22,232
We were even given a piece of bread. 

367
00:32:22,233 --> 00:32:28,999
And there was a soldier in each wagon. 

368
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:36,966
They were probably the pensioners or people who had been wounded in the war. 

369
00:32:36,967 --> 00:32:42,466
There was a soldier from the Wehrmacht in every car. 

370
00:32:42,467 --> 00:32:47,966
Uh to make sure that we didn't run away. 

371
00:32:47,967 --> 00:32:52,332
And the, the one with us was a good man. 

372
00:32:52,333 --> 00:33:02,332
He really tried hard, when the train stopped the first time and we were so thirsty, we didn't have any water. 

373
00:33:02,333 --> 00:33:06,832
And he always tried to find a bit of water. 

374
00:33:06,833 --> 00:33:10,932
And to give it to a few of us at least. 

375
00:33:10,933 --> 00:33:15,299
Or to find a potato in a field and give it to someone. 

376
00:33:15,300 --> 00:33:18,499
He was really a good man. 

377
00:33:18,500 --> 00:33:28,099
And we traveled for about two days...to the area near Mauthausen.  

378
00:33:28,100 --> 00:33:33,166
But Mauthausen had already been liberated when we arrived nearby. 

379
00:33:33,167 --> 00:33:40,832
And they looked for a different camp where they could leave us.  

380
00:33:40,833 --> 00:33:53,266
And destroy us because it was clear that they wanted...the Nazis wanted to kill as many Jews as they could before the war ended. 

381
00:33:53,267 --> 00:33:58,099
Because they knew that it would not continue after the war. 

382
00:33:58,100 --> 00:34:01,699
But they couldn't find any place for us. 

383
00:34:01,700 --> 00:34:09,499
So after a week in the train they let us out in, in...Au...Leitmeritz. 

384
00:34:09,500 --> 00:34:13,232
That was already in the Czech Republic. 

385
00:34:13,233 --> 00:34:15,766
They called it "Tschechei" then. 

386
00:34:15,767 --> 00:34:17,832
Not far from Theresienstadt. 

387
00:34:17,833 --> 00:34:21,132
And we marched back to Theresienstadt. 

388
00:34:21,133 --> 00:34:23,466
And we were happy. 

389
00:34:23,467 --> 00:34:28,732
Because that was not far from home. 

390
00:34:28,733 --> 00:34:39,132
And we thought we might find a few friends there with whom we had been together in the children's home. 

391
00:34:39,133 --> 00:34:42,399
And that really did happen. 

392
00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:47,566
There were three girls from our room who stayed in Theresienstadt until the end. 

393
00:34:47,567 --> 00:34:57,699
And when they heard that we had arrived, they came to us and...welcomed us.

394
00:34:57,700 --> 00:35:10,432
They...we were in a quarantine because we had not eaten anything the entire week, after we had eaten the bread on the way to Mauthausen...we had not eaten anything.  

395
00:35:10,433 --> 00:35:16,499
So the doctors said we have to be in quarantine for two reasons: 

396
00:35:16,500 --> 00:35:21,966
First, we might have diseases that are not in Theresienstadt. 

397
00:35:21,967 --> 00:35:31,466
Uh...although this was unlikely since all of us from the death marches had come to Theresienstadt

398
00:35:31,467 --> 00:35:34,699
with typhus and with all kinds of things. 

399
00:35:34,700 --> 00:35:43,499
But the second reason was that they said that after we hadn't eaten anything for so long we weren not allowed to eat everything. 

400
00:35:43,500 --> 00:35:47,566
We had to start eating again very slowly. 

401
00:35:47,567 --> 00:35:54,332
So that we didn't... get sick and even die. 

402
00:35:54,333 --> 00:35:58,266
Because we were not used to it. 

403
00:35:58,267 --> 00:36:02,299
That the stomach was not used to eating. 

404
00:36:02,300 --> 00:36:05,499
So we were still in Theresienstadt. 

405
00:36:05,500 --> 00:36:12,399
After we were able to leave the quarantine... 

406
00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:14,332
IV: Do you remember approximately when that was?

407
00:36:14,333 --> 00:36:16,066
What month, or the date?

408
00:36:16,067 --> 00:36:22,266
HD: Yes, yes, that was at the end of April '45 that we arrived there.  

409
00:36:22,267 --> 00:36:30,032
And we...the Red Army liberated us on May 8. 

410
00:36:30,033 --> 00:36:34,799
They just passed through on the way to Prague. 

411
00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:36,399
But it was liberation. 

412
00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:37,832
It was not a ghetto anymore. 

413
00:36:37,833 --> 00:36:43,732
It was...the Red Cross came and examined us. 

414
00:36:43,733 --> 00:36:56,966
And the healthy ones were given an ID so that they could leave, so that they could go home.  

415
00:36:56,967 --> 00:37:00,332
So we went home. 

416
00:37:00,333 --> 00:37:08,832
We got on a train, a normal train, and traveled to Prague. 

417
00:37:08,833 --> 00:37:10,499
And I was jubilant. 

418
00:37:10,500 --> 00:37:14,166
I thought, now we are going to Prague. 

419
00:37:14,167 --> 00:37:20,366
And we will be home and everything will continue they way it had been before the war. 

420
00:37:20,367 --> 00:37:23,699
But of course it was nothing like that. 

421
00:37:23,700 --> 00:37:29,166
When we arrived in Prague, I..I saw: where is my house?

422
00:37:29,167 --> 00:37:35,466
Because they had taken our property away in 1939. 

423
00:37:35,467 --> 00:37:37,966
Who knows what is there. 

424
00:37:37,967 --> 00:37:41,266
They had taken the villa away from us in '40. 

425
00:37:41,267 --> 00:37:45,066
Who knows who is there now. 

426
00:37:45,067 --> 00:37:54,699
So we were given, Tella was given by the Jewish community or some municapality of Prague...I don't know who..  

427
00:37:54,700 --> 00:38:02,166
A small apartment and a piano, because she was a piano teacher. 

428
00:38:02,167 --> 00:38:12,066
So that she could work and earn money...so that we had something to eat. 

429
00:38:12,067 --> 00:38:15,032
And I started going to school. 

430
00:38:15,033 --> 00:38:23,566
And we wrote everywhere, in newspapers and to the community and everywhere we could.

431
00:38:23,567 --> 00:38:34,266
We said...and asked, who knows or who has seen or who has heard something from our relatives and friends. 

432
00:38:34,267 --> 00:38:41,732
And what our address was so that if someone...knew something they could find us. 

433
00:38:41,733 --> 00:38:44,166
But no one came. 

434
00:38:44,167 --> 00:38:48,099
Not mother, not father, not aunts,, not even cousins. 

435
00:38:48,100 --> 00:38:49,732
No one came. 

436
00:38:49,733 --> 00:38:58,066
So my entire family, all that I had left was the family that had gone to Palestine. 

437
00:38:58,067 --> 00:39:13,432
And two relatives that were not from the first...from the immediate circle of the family but who were cousins from my mother. 

438
00:39:13,433 --> 00:39:15,732
They were left. 

439
00:39:15,733 --> 00:39:22,332
The cousin, he was a famous conductor. 

440
00:39:22,333 --> 00:39:27,332
He conducted before the war and in Theresienstadt. 

441
00:39:27,333 --> 00:39:37,666
He immigrated to Canada after the war in 1968 during the Prague Spring. 

442
00:39:37,667 --> 00:39:40,899
And conducted throughout the world. 

443
00:39:40,900 --> 00:39:43,499
He also went to Israel. 

444
00:39:43,500 --> 00:39:48,732
And I saw him the first....after many years I saw him again. 

445
00:39:48,733 --> 00:39:52,132
And he gave a concert in Haifa, not far from us. 

446
00:39:52,133 --> 00:39:54,466
We had tickets. 

447
00:39:54,467 --> 00:40:04,899
And  we said after the concert, perhaps he could come to us in the kibbutz and we could talk a bit...hear about his life. 

448
00:40:04,900 --> 00:40:09,966
And he can hear about ours. 

449
00:40:09,967 --> 00:40:17,566
But he fell ill and so in the middle of the concert we went behind stage to greet him. 

450
00:40:17,567 --> 00:40:21,699
And he said he was sorry, he wouldn't be able to come because he did not feel good at all. 

451
00:40:21,700 --> 00:40:29,432
He had to conduct the concert to the end and didn't have any strength afterwards. 

452
00:40:29,433 --> 00:40:38,666
And after he returned to Canada, after a few months he died.

453
00:40:38,667 --> 00:40:43,166
And the aunt, I had no idea that she was even alive. 

454
00:40:43,167 --> 00:40:46,899
This cousin of my mother. 

455
00:40:46,900 --> 00:40:54,232
She turned up one day in Israel with her son. 

456
00:40:54,233 --> 00:41:00,566
And she was, we kept in very close contact up to her death. 

457
00:41:00,567 --> 00:41:04,232
She was almost 100 years old when she died. 

458
00:41:04,233 --> 00:41:10,399
She was a wonderful woman, but now she is dead. 

459
00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:17,232
And so...we were in Prague with Tella until 1949. 

460
00:41:17,233 --> 00:41:31,132
And I...when it was getting dangerous, that the border would close, that one couldn't leave with the communist regime. 

461
00:41:31,133 --> 00:41:34,432
And I have to say, I was a communist. 

462
00:41:34,433 --> 00:41:41,699
And I believe I still am today, what people made of this great idea is terrible. 

463
00:41:41,700 --> 00:41:46,499
That is not communism...was not communism. 

464
00:41:46,500 --> 00:41:49,499
So I knew that i would leave. 

465
00:41:49,500 --> 00:41:56,999
And with Tella too, we lived together and we loved each other very much. 

466
00:41:57,000 --> 00:42:07,166
But we did not get along well in normal life. 

467
00:42:07,167 --> 00:42:15,966
Because she wanted, she wanted me to somehow make up for the three lost years. 

468
00:42:15,967 --> 00:42:19,432
I was supposed to just study and study and study. 

469
00:42:19,433 --> 00:42:20,699
I wanted to catch up too. 

470
00:42:20,700 --> 00:42:24,999
But I wanted to catch up -- i wanted to go to the cinema, be with friends. 

471
00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:28,066
And she didn't... she didn't want that. 

472
00:42:28,067 --> 00:42:33,232
And so... I lied a lot. 

473
00:42:33,233 --> 00:42:38,699
I did that but I saw that our life together was not good. 

474
00:42:38,700 --> 00:42:49,299
And that if we wanted to keep our love, I had to leave. 

475
00:42:49,300 --> 00:42:52,699
And she was a zionist. 

476
00:42:52,700 --> 00:43:03,466
And that is why I thought that if i immigrate to Palestine, that she would accept that. 

477
00:43:03,467 --> 00:43:05,466
That she would allow this. 

478
00:43:05,467 --> 00:43:06,499
And that is what I did. 

479
00:43:06,500 --> 00:43:12,266
I went to Israel with my, with a group. 

480
00:43:12,267 --> 00:43:19,332
And right to the kibbutz where I still live today. 

481
00:43:19,333 --> 00:43:23,699
Ah, well that is... that is another story. 

482
00:43:23,700 --> 00:43:28,332
Anyway, I married twice. 

483
00:43:28,333 --> 00:43:36,099
I have, had four children and two adopted children. 

484
00:43:36,100 --> 00:43:40,732
One son died. 

485
00:43:40,733 --> 00:43:50,999
And today we are a large family with our three children and the two adopted sons and their children, no? 

486
00:43:51,000 --> 00:44:02,666
16 grandchildren and two, how do you say, the two sons of my grandchildren. 

487
00:44:02,667 --> 00:44:09,132
And my cousin, the only one I have left, who went to Palestine before the war. 

488
00:44:09,133 --> 00:44:19,666
She always says that was my victory over Hitler, that I have a new family now. 

489
00:44:19,667 --> 00:44:21,232
IV: And such a large one 

490
00:44:21,233 --> 00:44:25,699
HD: A large one. And a good one. A nice {laughs}

491
00:44:25,700 --> 00:44:30,266
IV: What was that like for you when you went to Israel?

492
00:44:30,267 --> 00:44:34,599
Uh...was what you had experienced there? 

493
00:44:34,600 --> 00:44:34,932
HD: Sorry?

494
00:44:34,933 --> 00:44:42,999
IV: When you went to Israel, the things you had experienced before in the camps, was that discussed...did you want to forget it?

495
00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:43,066
HD: No. 

496
00:44:43,067 --> 00:44:44,399
IV: Or did you want to talk to other people about it? 

497
00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:44,666
HD: No. 

498
00:44:44,667 --> 00:44:45,132
IV: How was that?

499
00:44:45,133 --> 00:44:48,766
HD: I...I always wanted to talk about it. 

500
00:44:48,767 --> 00:44:53,099
At first in Israel no one wanted to hear it.  

501
00:44:53,100 --> 00:45:07,666
There was a time where people who had not gone through it, they felt that we should be heroes. 

502
00:45:07,667 --> 00:45:10,366
We wanted, or we should have revolted and...

503
00:45:10,367 --> 00:45:13,366
They didn't understand...that that was not possible. 

504
00:45:13,367 --> 00:45:16,566
That only became clear later. 

505
00:45:16,567 --> 00:45:19,232
Today I can talk about it. 

506
00:45:19,233 --> 00:45:20,932
But in the beginning, that wasn't possible. 

507
00:45:20,933 --> 00:45:22,832
The people didn't want to hear it. 

508
00:45:22,833 --> 00:45:25,666
But I always spoke about it. 

509
00:45:25,667 --> 00:45:46,899
And still today, I am often invited, six or eight times to an organization called Beit Terezín, or House Theresienstadt in Israel in a different kibbutz. 

510
00:45:46,900 --> 00:45:56,666
And classes of schoolchildren come there on one day...to hear about these things.  

511
00:45:56,667 --> 00:46:00,999
They watch a film and do all sorts of things. 

512
00:46:01,000 --> 00:46:14,499
And then at the end someone always comes who had been a child in Theresienstadt and who can talk about what it was like to be a child in Theresienstadt. 

513
00:46:14,500 --> 00:46:17,399
And the children sometimes come to me and say: 

514
00:46:17,400 --> 00:46:23,532
"You know, it was very interesting to read a book about that and to see a film. 

515
00:46:23,533 --> 00:46:34,666
But it is not the same as talking with a person who you can ask questions to about things that are not in any book or film." 

516
00:46:34,667 --> 00:46:35,832
IV: That's true. 

517
00:46:35,833 --> 00:46:37,132
HD: So I do this. 

518
00:46:37,133 --> 00:46:40,832
Because I think that it is our duty. 

519
00:46:40,833 --> 00:46:52,332
We are the last with whom they... from whom one can hear first hand what it was like there. 

520
00:46:52,333 --> 00:46:56,299
IV: And you also worked in the kibbutz, helped build up the kibbutz? 

521
00:46:56,300 --> 00:46:59,999
Perhaps you could speak a bit about the life there.

522
00:47:00,000 --> 00:47:07,999
HD: Well, in the kibbutz..so I arrived in a kibbutz and was there for a few months. 

523
00:47:08,000 --> 00:47:15,832
And then my aunt, the one who had arrived before the war and who lived in Tel Aviv, said to me: 

524
00:47:15,833 --> 00:47:20,999
"You know what? I am the only relative you have left.

525
00:47:21,000 --> 00:47:26,232
And I have to look after you, that you learn something that you can live from. 

526
00:47:26,233 --> 00:47:33,166
Because being a member of a kibbutz is not a...profession." 

527
00:47:33,167 --> 00:47:37,332
And I didn't want that but she said: 

528
00:47:37,333 --> 00:47:42,132
"Come to us in Tel Aviv, you will learn something." 

529
00:47:42,133 --> 00:47:47,132
And she sent me to a...course for looking after children. 

530
00:47:47,133 --> 00:47:48,832
That is what I learned. 

531
00:47:48,833 --> 00:47:56,566
And after I finished that I went back to the kibbutz. 

532
00:47:56,567 --> 00:47:59,999
And I did all sorts of work there. 

533
00:48:00,000 --> 00:48:02,132
I always wanted to work with cows. 

534
00:48:02,133 --> 00:48:04,366
What I knew from home. 

535
00:48:04,367 --> 00:48:06,566
And I like animals very much. 

536
00:48:06,567 --> 00:48:07,699
And I was always told: 

537
00:48:07,700 --> 00:48:10,466
"That is not work for women:"

538
00:48:10,467 --> 00:48:13,766
But in the end it was work for women. 

539
00:48:13,767 --> 00:48:19,699
And I worked for twenty years with cows and I loved it. 

540
00:48:19,700 --> 00:48:23,866
And then a different love happened. 

541
00:48:23,867 --> 00:48:30,432
SInce my childhood, I had always wanted to go to Africa. 

542
00:48:30,433 --> 00:48:41,666
I had...there are those books, "The Jungle Book" by Kipling, and there were also films.   

543
00:48:41,667 --> 00:48:47,566
And I was always very impressed by these black people and the colorfulness of Africa. 

544
00:48:47,567 --> 00:48:48,832
I always wanted to go to Africa. 

545
00:48:48,833 --> 00:48:51,632
I had not really wanted to go to Israel. 

546
00:48:51,633 --> 00:48:56,799
I went to Israel because of Tella. 

547
00:48:56,800 --> 00:49:06,432
When I was 50 years old, we had the opportunity, my husband and I, to go to Africa and work there. 

548
00:49:06,433 --> 00:49:12,599
And it was very interesting - not easy, but very interesting and good years. 

549
00:49:12,600 --> 00:49:16,932
And from there we returned to the kibbutz. 

550
00:49:16,933 --> 00:49:21,566
And now I am in retirement. 

551
00:49:21,567 --> 00:49:26,066
But I still work doing all kinds of things. 

552
00:49:26,067 --> 00:49:35,066
I publish a weekly newspaper with a friend. 

553
00:49:35,067 --> 00:49:46,032
I published it quickly yesterday so that it would be available as usual in time for the sabbath {laughs}

554
00:49:46,033 --> 00:49:58,332
And on the Day of the Holocaust -- in Israel it is celebrated on a different day then here. 

555
00:49:58,333 --> 00:50:03,332
Not in January, but in spring. 

556
00:50:03,333 --> 00:50:13,366
And then I organize an evening where i plan a program about it in my...in our kibbutz. 

557
00:50:13,367 --> 00:50:15,332
So.

558
00:50:15,333 --> 00:50:25,399
And I have my family, I have children and grandchildren that sometimes need to be fed or taken care of. 

559
00:50:25,400 --> 00:50:26,999
IV: So you have enough to do {laughs}.

560
00:50:27,000 --> 00:50:28,499
HD: There is enough to do, yes. 

561
00:50:28,500 --> 00:50:31,866
IV: I would like to ask you a few things about Oederan. 

562
00:50:31,867 --> 00:50:32,166
HD: Okay. 

563
00:50:32,167 --> 00:50:34,232
IV: Because Oederan was a subcamp of Flossenbürg. 

564
00:50:34,233 --> 00:50:35,466
HD: Yes, yes, yes. 

565
00:50:35,467 --> 00:50:38,766
IV: ...and the details there are always interesting. 

566
00:50:38,767 --> 00:50:46,066
Perhaps you could speak a bit about how you were housed there, the living conditions during the time that you were in Oederan. 

567
00:50:46,067 --> 00:51:04,332
HD: Good. So first when we came to Oederan from Auschwitz-Birkenau, from the terrible conditions there, ti was like, like...in a way almost like paradise. 

568
00:51:04,333 --> 00:51:07,699
Because the factory was heated. 

569
00:51:07,700 --> 00:51:08,966
It was winter. 

570
00:51:08,967 --> 00:51:16,766
And since it was also a factory, there was central heating in the camp where we lived. 

571
00:51:16,767 --> 00:51:20,832
And that was lucky. 

572
00:51:20,833 --> 00:51:27,732
And they...the first days we were given a whole bowl of soup. 

573
00:51:27,733 --> 00:51:36,166
And we couldn't eat it, after...the time spent in Auschwitz...our stomachs were too small somehow. 

574
00:51:36,167 --> 00:51:39,666
But the women who were already there, there were two groups:

575
00:51:39,667 --> 00:51:47,166
There was our group, the Czech group, there was a Polish group and there was a Hungarian group. 

576
00:51:47,167 --> 00:51:49,399
And they told us: 

577
00:51:49,400 --> 00:51:50,832
"You have to eat it up." 

578
00:51:50,833 --> 00:51:57,032
Because if you don't eat it then the people in the kitchen will think that it is too much. 

579
00:51:57,033 --> 00:52:02,499
And everyone will receive less." 

580
00:52:02,500 --> 00:52:09,266
The work...uh, first the lodgings.

581
00:52:09,267 --> 00:52:13,866
It was again beds...with three levels. 

582
00:52:13,867 --> 00:52:16,799
But they were not built together. 

583
00:52:16,800 --> 00:52:22,932
They were beds of wood, that were put on top...uh. 

584
00:52:22,933 --> 00:52:23,766
IV: Stacked, stacked. 

585
00:52:23,767 --> 00:52:25,666
HD: ...stacked together. 

586
00:52:25,667 --> 00:52:34,532
And we were two to a bed. 

587
00:52:34,533 --> 00:52:39,999
And each of the two who were together were given a good blanket. 

588
00:52:40,000 --> 00:52:45,332
And we were given a sack that we could fill with straw or something. 

589
00:52:45,333 --> 00:52:47,932
So it was like a mattress. 

590
00:52:47,933 --> 00:52:51,732
So all of that was much better than in Auschwitz. 

591
00:52:51,733 --> 00:52:57,566
But over the time the food became less and less and less. 

592
00:52:57,567 --> 00:53:00,399
So we were hungry there too. 

593
00:53:00,400 --> 00:53:05,532
But of course not like in Auschwitz. 

594
00:53:05,533 --> 00:53:14,932
And the SS women...in the beginning, there were girls, I once...

595
00:53:14,933 --> 00:53:21,199
I read a book about it, I don't remember from the...I was a small child. 

596
00:53:21,200 --> 00:53:22,866
I didn't ask much. 

597
00:53:22,867 --> 00:53:29,666
But it was young, young girls, who were told: 

598
00:53:29,667 --> 00:53:44,166
"If you are with the SS you will be paid better and have better conditions." 

599
00:53:44,167 --> 00:53:47,166
And that's why these girls joined the SS.

600
00:53:47,167 --> 00:53:50,332
Not because they were big Nazis. 

601
00:53:50,333 --> 00:53:57,232
And they were really...they were not, not good, but they were also not bad to us. 

602
00:53:57,233 --> 00:54:01,199
They did their duty and not much more. 

603
00:54:01,200 --> 00:54:07,532
And then the head overseer from Auschwitz was sent to us. 

604
00:54:07,533 --> 00:54:11,332
And she was a...a witch. 

605
00:54:11,333 --> 00:54:13,266
A terrible person. 

606
00:54:13,267 --> 00:54:20,766
We also had two women who were pregnant when they arrived. 

607
00:54:20,767 --> 00:54:26,199
And everything was done to conceal that they were pregnant. 

608
00:54:26,200 --> 00:54:32,399
Because we knew that, that if they found out it would be bad. 

609
00:54:32,400 --> 00:54:35,832
So this one, she saw it and sent them away. 

610
00:54:35,833 --> 00:54:38,299
And away they went. 

611
00:54:38,300 --> 00:54:45,332
Who knows where to and how.

612
00:54:45,333 --> 00:54:50,699
And we worked in the factory, there were some who worked in external commandos. 

613
00:54:50,700 --> 00:54:54,332
I don't know anything about that. 

614
00:54:54,333 --> 00:55:00,332
We normally worked for eight hours in the factory. 

615
00:55:00,333 --> 00:55:16,566
Ans...when there were alarms, when air raids occurred, they locked us inside the factory, where we were.

616
00:55:16,567 --> 00:55:21,066
The SS went away, into the bunker and left us there. 

617
00:55:21,067 --> 00:55:31,432
But the only bombs that fell nearby, didn't land on the factory. 

618
00:55:31,433 --> 00:55:35,066
They were about a kilometer away. 

619
00:55:35,067 --> 00:55:39,632
But we were still scared. 

620
00:55:39,633 --> 00:55:41,399
And the food was bad. 

621
00:55:41,400 --> 00:55:42,932
Very bad, I mentioned that. 

622
00:55:42,933 --> 00:55:45,099
We were hungry. 

623
00:55:45,100 --> 00:55:52,399
Not in the beginning, but very soon it was reduced. 

624
00:55:52,400 --> 00:55:58,399
And sometimes...we had to do twelve hour shifts. 

625
00:55:58,400 --> 00:56:00,766
And we had two doctors there. 

626
00:56:00,767 --> 00:56:06,232
The head doctor was a Russian inmate. 

627
00:56:06,233 --> 00:56:10,599
She was a good woman. 

628
00:56:10,600 --> 00:56:19,466
And the other was a Jewish Hungarian from the, the Hungarian group. 

629
00:56:19,467 --> 00:56:32,432
And she always...bad...was always scared that if she left someone in the sickroom, that the overseer would do something. 

630
00:56:32,433 --> 00:56:34,032
Would send her away or something. 

631
00:56:34,033 --> 00:56:45,166
And she always tried to send people to work, even when they were sick {sigh}.

632
00:56:45,167 --> 00:56:46,732
What else can I tell you?

633
00:56:46,733 --> 00:56:54,199
We had good relations with the Polish group, good relations. 

634
00:56:54,200 --> 00:57:09,232
Sometimes in the evening, after work, when we were back at the place where we lived...sometimes we did something together. 

635
00:57:09,233 --> 00:57:20,432
I remember a cultural evening with the..., in the Polish women's room. 

636
00:57:20,433 --> 00:57:21,766
There was dancing there. 

637
00:57:21,767 --> 00:57:28,666
We had a dancer, two...really two dancers, but I can't remember the other one. 

638
00:57:28,667 --> 00:57:31,599
Miss Salus. 

639
00:57:31,600 --> 00:57:44,099
But Kamilla Rosenbaum, she had been a...caretaker in, in L 410, in in Theresienstadt. 

640
00:57:44,100 --> 00:57:48,599
She came with us and she was a dancer. 

641
00:57:48,600 --> 00:57:54,399
And on this evening she said she would dance two dances. 

642
00:57:54,400 --> 00:58:04,999
The one was...it was a...worked in a cow stable and milked a cow. 

643
00:58:05,000 --> 00:58:09,399
And the second one, she was...I have to say this first. 

644
00:58:09,400 --> 00:58:15,699
She was sent to Auschwitz with her son, he was 10 years old. 

645
00:58:15,700 --> 00:58:20,732
And with a child that she had adopted in Theresienstadt. 

646
00:58:20,733 --> 00:58:24,599
The child was an orphan in the home where she was a caretaker. 

647
00:58:24,600 --> 00:58:26,566
And she..adopted her. 

648
00:58:26,567 --> 00:58:33,632
She was a year older I believe, maybe 11 years old. 

649
00:58:33,633 --> 00:58:40,499
And they tore the children away from her and sent them to the left. 

650
00:58:40,500 --> 00:58:51,066
And now when she danced, she said she was going to do a dance, a mother rocking her baby to sleep. 

651
00:58:51,067 --> 00:58:55,032
She began but she couldn't continue. 

652
00:58:55,033 --> 00:59:00,832
She began to cry and couldn't go on with the dance. 

653
00:59:00,833 --> 00:59:19,066
But the evenings after the lights had to be out and everything was dark and we were in bed, we tried either to recite poems

654
00:59:19,067 --> 00:59:28,866
Or...or it was, it was the adults, who began to cook. 

655
00:59:28,867 --> 00:59:30,332
What does that mean, to cook? 

656
00:59:30,333 --> 00:59:35,832
To talk about what their mothers had cooked and how this and that was made. 

657
00:59:35,833 --> 00:59:41,332
Because I think this is very typical of people who are hungry. 

658
00:59:41,333 --> 00:59:50,666
One talks about food and thinks that this will somehow fill the stomach. 

659
00:59:50,667 --> 00:59:54,332
We had a washroom there. 

660
00:59:54,333 --> 01:00:02,499
We had... it was only cold water and water faucets, it was possible to wash a bit. 

661
01:00:02,500 --> 01:00:19,266
And one day...they sent a woman to us, a German, non-Jewish woman with those, with the striped pygamas that one...

662
01:00:19,267 --> 01:00:20,166
IV: The prisoner uniforms from the concentration camps. 

663
01:00:20,167 --> 01:00:24,066
HD:...prisoner uniforms, yes. 

664
01:00:24,067 --> 01:00:39,699
And when she arrived to wash herself and took off the uniform, we saw that her back was sore all over. 

665
01:00:39,700 --> 01:00:46,832
She had been whipped because she had slept with some Russian prisoner. 

666
01:00:46,833 --> 01:00:49,099
And that was race defilement. 

667
01:00:49,100 --> 01:00:54,832
And as a race defiler they had sent her in the end as a punishment to the Jews. 

668
01:00:54,833 --> 01:00:57,999
And she was so happy that she was with us. 

669
01:00:58,000 --> 01:01:01,499
No one beat her there. 

670
01:01:01,500 --> 01:01:05,499
She went with us to Theresienstadt and was liberated with us. 

671
01:01:05,500 --> 01:01:09,499
I don't know where she ended up, what happened to her. 

672
01:01:09,500 --> 01:01:11,666
But I hope that she had a good life. 

673
01:01:11,667 --> 01:01:16,832
She was a good woman. 

674
01:01:16,833 --> 01:01:26,066
IV: You spoke about Theresienstadt, that you were also in... that you had a role in the children's opera, as the fifth one.

675
01:01:26,067 --> 01:01:30,032
Do you remember the song that you had to sing or that you sung. 

676
01:01:30,033 --> 01:01:32,999
HD: Oh yes. 

677
01:01:33,000 --> 01:01:39,199
I...this children's opera exists all over the world.

678
01:01:39,200 --> 01:01:53,666
And whenever it is playing where I am not, I am invited... sometimes I am asked to speak to the children about what it was like in Theresienstadt. 

679
01:01:53,667 --> 01:01:54,966
What we sang. 

680
01:01:54,967 --> 01:02:09,066
So I do remember and the last song, that is the victory over the Brundibár, that is the evil man who was no less than Hitler to us. 

681
01:02:09,067 --> 01:02:15,232
Who was always fought against, but...

682
01:02:15,233 --> 01:02:21,832
In the end Hitler was still alive and we were still in the...ghetto

683
01:02:21,833 --> 01:02:24,499
IV: Could you sing this song today? 

684
01:02:24,500 --> 01:02:26,166
HD: Yes, but in Czech. 

685
01:02:26,167 --> 01:02:29,232
IV: Could you do it now without accompaniment?

686
01:02:29,233 --> 01:02:30,766
HD: Yes.

687
01:02:30,767 --> 01:02:32,599
IV: I would like that very much. 

688
01:02:32,600 --> 01:02:40,999
HD: Ok. Brundibár poražen, jsme ho dostáli, zaviřte na buben, jsme to vyhráli.

689
01:02:41,000 --> 01:02:47,032
Vyhráli proto jen, že jsme se nedáli, že jsme se nedáli,

690
01:02:47,033 --> 01:02:55,032
že jsme si všichni svou písničku veselou do kroku zpívali… and so on {laughs}.

691
01:02:55,033 --> 01:02:59,132
IV: Thank you. Thanks. 

692
01:02:59,133 --> 01:03:02,032
Yes, sometimes I think culture also helps to survive. 

693
01:03:02,033 --> 01:03:09,932
Or also...the hungry people speaking about food to fill their stomachs, cutlure I believe is the spirit, the will to survive. 

694
01:03:09,933 --> 01:03:15,499
HD: Yes...culture...it was very important for ... for both sides. 

695
01:03:15,500 --> 01:03:17,732
For the artists too. 

696
01:03:17,733 --> 01:03:23,066
To not forget how to be an artist. 

697
01:03:23,067 --> 01:03:44,999
And also for the audience that had the opportunity...was given a little time to forget where they were and  how bad everything was and not knowing whether and when they were every going to get away.

698
01:03:45,000 --> 01:03:49,132
So I think culture saved us. 

699
01:03:49,133 --> 01:03:52,499
And humor too.

700
01:03:52,500 --> 01:04:05,066
One must, one has to know...I think for Jews it is perhaps something that is in their blood. 

701
01:04:05,067 --> 01:04:12,999
One makes fun of something that is sometimes quite awful. 

702
01:04:13,000 --> 01:04:19,166
But instead of crying, one laughs. 

703
01:04:19,167 --> 01:04:20,832
IV: Thank You. 

704
01:04:20,833 --> 01:04:26,299
Or is there something else that you would like to tell? 

705
01:04:26,300 --> 01:04:29,832
HD: Nothing that I can think of now. 

706
01:04:29,833 --> 01:04:31,999
IV: Than I would like to thank you. 

707
01:04:32,000 --> 01:04:36,932
I am curious: Did you speak German from the time your birth, was German always spoken in your family?

708
01:04:36,933 --> 01:04:42,332
HD: No, Czech was spoken in my family. 

709
01:04:42,333 --> 01:04:49,399
I was even...I had, because my mother was never with us, I always had a nanny. 

710
01:04:49,400 --> 01:05:03,666
And I think in 1937 or perhaps...I was given a nanny from the Sudeten so that I could learn German from her.  

711
01:05:03,667 --> 01:05:05,266
But I never wanted to speak German. 

712
01:05:05,267 --> 01:05:09,332
She learned very good German...uh Czech from me {laughs}.

713
01:05:09,333 --> 01:05:15,499
But I didn't have any... I basically learned German from HItler. 

714
01:05:15,500 --> 01:05:19,832
IV: Well if that is the case, you learned it very well. 

715
01:05:19,833 --> 01:05:26,932
HD: I have a good...i have somehow...for languages I...

716
01:05:26,933 --> 01:05:28,599
IV: ...a grasp.

717
01:05:28,600 --> 01:05:31,166
HD: ...a grasp, yes. I speak several languages. 

718
01:05:31,167 --> 01:05:34,866
IV: And to want it. I think to learn a langauge you have to want it. 

719
01:05:34,867 --> 01:05:41,999
HD: Yes. Well I don't speak German very well because I never really studied German. 

720
01:05:42,000 --> 01:05:45,066
I speak so...I read German and I can speak.

721
01:05:45,067 --> 01:05:48,632
But it is not the way it should be. 

722
01:05:48,633 --> 01:05:53,499
I only speak Lwrit perfectly, and Hebrew and Czech. 

723
01:05:53,500 --> 01:05:57,832
The other languages I can speak more or less well, but I speak. 

724
01:05:57,833 --> 01:06:00,932
IV: But you also had to learn Lwrit, later. 

725
01:06:00,933 --> 01:06:02,566
HD: I never learned it too. 

726
01:06:02,567 --> 01:06:04,632
IV: But also from listening. 

727
01:06:04,633 --> 01:06:15,766
HD: But I can write in Hebrew and I, I know Hebrew perfectly. 

728
01:06:15,767 --> 01:06:16,732
IV: Very good. 

729
01:06:16,733 --> 01:06:21,732
Thank you for taking the time to speak with us, still tired from the journey. 

730
01:06:21,733 --> 01:06:25,599
And it was very interesting, your story. 

731
01:06:25,600 --> 01:06:27,832
But the stories are always sad...

732
01:06:27,833 --> 01:06:41,933
HD: Those of us would very much like...to be a little less interesting, to have had ...a normal childhood.