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IV: And they don't stop for maybe two hours. Hahaha.

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LK: I just don't... I meant..

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IV: So we just have to, every half hour, we have to say: "please stop", because we have to change...

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LK: Change the tapes. That's right. That's right.

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Yes, because I was in the church, talking about the Holocaust in, in, in Canada.

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And it's all I'm gonna talk, it's half an hour.

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After ten minutes I said: "Can you please ask me questions? I don't know what to say anymore."

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IV: Yea. So, you do it often? In Canada.

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LK: I just started late, you see...I've never done it before, never.

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So somebody said to me: "Why don't you start speak in the schools?" You know?

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So, that's why I started a year ago. And I spoke just now to... in a Catholic school.

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They were really nice kids. 65 children were there. you know. Like grown ups.

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About 14-15. And they are really good kids, you know. I can't say anything...

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IV: And then you also are talking about your personal experience.

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LK: I started off with personal expriences. I started. Where I come from, explain them exactly...for instance, eh.

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Why are you Hungary, why in Romania, you know, what the heck are you.

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I explained them what it was because this particular parts in Siebenbürgen used to belong to Austria-Hungarian. You know, and for hundred years.

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And then they lost the war, the first world war. And then the Allies gave these parts to.. They took away a lump, like.. They took away a lump of Germany as well..

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Like the Sudetenland used to be German. You know. and then they tooks parts away.

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And then the same here with Hungary. They took a big lump and gave it to Romania.

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And they took two big lumps of Romania, Moldova and Bukovina and gave it to Russia.

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It changed the whole system, lands. So when I was born it was Romania, so I have to say I am Romanian.

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But the people in the village, they couldn't speak Romanian, they spoke Hungarian.

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Now it's what they probably speak, the new generation, because it's been 60 odd years now since Romania is there now, so.

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It must have changed by now, you know. You see. So.

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But I spoke to them.. Telling them about... because you have to explain if they ask you: "Are you Hungarian? Are you Romanian?" Ha. So they know. Yes, so that's why.

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IV: Well, so we start. Eh, yea, let's start with 1944.

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You've been living in a little village there in Romania.

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LK: And then there is...

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IV: You tell us little bit about the changes in 1944.

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LK: Yes.

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IV: And what happened then.

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LK: I was, I was actually we lived in a... in the Carpathian Mountains actually.

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Which was very nice, but also with the mountains and right by the river, and then.

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I used to go to the Farkas. Those boys were interviewed.

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I used to go there to their garden and their beautiful orchard.

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I still remember that every fruit you can think of, beautiful fresh fruit, and then they used to take a bicycle.

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But I was brought up very religious, ehm, background, and I hated it all the time.

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I wasn't allowed to wear short sleeves, I wasn't allowed to do sport.

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I wasn't allowed to go and play outside, only in the synagogue all day long.

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And I swore then, as a child, as soon as I grow up I'm gonna leave this lot. You know. I can't stand it.

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And I remember one day I forgot to say a blessing on a potato.

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My father gave me good hiding for that. You know, and I was maybe 12 years old.

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I didn't say nothing, but I said, that's it.

45
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And yet, when they took my father away, you know, at the Sabath, and he was a Rabbi.

46
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They took him away, and they put him on a horse at a Sabath, and they cut his beard though.

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And you know, with all that, I cried. I remember crying, because, you know, seeing my father.

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My mother cried as well. The two of us together.

49
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And she said, "I bet I will never gonna see you again".

50
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And he said: "Don't worry, God will be there with us. You'll see me." Never did. But anyway.

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They were supposed to take him to the front.

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And dig trenches for the army. It's called: the "munka tábor" {labor camps}. You know, in Hungarian.

53
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And they suppose to take him there. But I've heard that over a few days he died.

54
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They didn't take him... He has never done it in his life, to lift a shovel in his hand.

55
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He didn't take it, you know, in there. So, this I remember from my father.

56
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But, when I came, you know, then, those pogroms in Hungary.

57
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They were telling the Jews: "You need to climb up on that tree". To this Jew, right?

58
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When he climbed up, the next door neighbors, they shot him down.

59
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For no reason, but nobody worried about that.

60
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You see? Up 'til 1943, actually, it was not bad in Hungary. It was quite good.

61
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I couldn't think about... as soon as they got.. Eh, Jews, get rid of them, problems started.

62
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There was.. The guys, especially who had no money, or the villains...  {unintelligible}

63
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{unintelligible} I mean, Hitler started up with the Brown Shirts, you know.

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And the...you know, even the German people couldn't do what they wanted to do. You know. Nobody. Hitler... I mean. You know.

65
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Anything you said, something, you were gone. Same was in Hungary.

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As the Nazi party took over, It was called: "Nyilaskeresztes Party", and took over. So that's why I remember.

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And then they came one day. And, eh, we were walking, which was about 7-8 killometers, to the next town.

68
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Ah, it was a small village, which was called Satu Mare In Romanian. In Hungary, Szatmárnémeti.

69
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And they put us in a ghetto there, you know, waiting for a while.

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We didn't know what was going on, you know. I didn't know. I was just, I was just, I wasn't even 13 yet, you see.

71
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So... to me... yeah. {unintelligible} For me it was just a way getting away from the Synagogue. Hahaha. You know. This was very interesting.

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But em. So they started picking, started picking things up.

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And the Hungarian police were terrible. All of a sudden, they hated us.

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They used to go, and I am not kidding, they used to go in houses, torture the parents.

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Not the parents, the children, in front of the parents, to get the jewelry. They used to do. You know.

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Lucky enough we were poor. So, they didn't come to us. Ha. You know.

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We didn't have anything, they could do what they want, and we could give them, and we didn't have any.

78
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But the richer people, you know. Like the lawyers, the dentists, people had the... they have to. Nobody bothered about it. Nobody cared.

79
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So I, I... We go that now... I don't hate Hungarians. You know. I mean, because, it was that time like that. You know.

80
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They had a free hand, that's all. You know, so, I don't know. And so, we where there for a few months.

81
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Not longer, I don't think so, maybe 3-4 weeks only in the Ghetto. I don't think it was longer than that.

82
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And then they told us to go on these trains.

83
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Well, when you came to the trains there was these cattle trucks, you know.

84
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And they put us in, about 90 people on one of those trucks.

85
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And we were so like this, standing like this, with the children.

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I had, I had 3 brothers with me, and 4 sisters with me. And my mother.

87
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Ok, I also had my aunt, her husband was taken away, when... Hungarian... Munka tábor, to the front, to dig trenches.

88
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So she came with us as well, with 3 children, but very small. So I had to look after them as well.

89
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But the children went into this.. locked us up, put a padlock outside, and then...

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There was only one bowl, for, you know, for business, I mean, you can imagine that.

91
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And, and 3 - 4 days we got to Vienna. That was the first time they stopped the train.

92
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And all I heard was the men as the train stopped, you know. They asked for water, they didn't give us any water.

93
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They said: "Give us the jewelry". It was always about the jewelry. Shouting.

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My mom only had a ring. A couple of things. She gave it to them, they wanted it.

95
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But I'd done the same thing. Anyway, we came to Vienna, but the outskirts.

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They never went into to the, to the main. They didn't want people to know.

97
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Everything was really secretive. We thought we were going to work in Germany. You know.

98
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And it was Easter time, Jewish Easter time. And we just thought about the story about Jews being slaves in Egypt.

99
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And I sai... I said to myself, what's the big deal, we're slaves again.

100
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So, that's, because we're Jew, we're gonna suffer for it. You know. We are slaves, that's it.

101
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You know, one of these days maybe we'll have our own country, and then we won't be slaves anymore.

102
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That's the way my attitude was. You see.

103
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But at the time there was I think about 1600 people on this train. All together. 1650 maybe. On this train.

104
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And the time we get, we got, we got to Vienna I think it was about, what I remember, 4 or 5 days, you know, on these trains.

105
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Hardly any food. I mean, just screaming, the kids were screaming. And everything else.

106
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It was terrbile way, believe me. You couldn't sleep. You know. It was just on top of each other.

107
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And then we arrived, actually, the train came right inside to Birkenau. Right inside, they drove in.

108
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{unintelligible} Then we came on and they started shouting, you know. Shlush, shlush, Shlush, quick, quick.

109
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Everything was always quick. With the dogs. You know. Running.

110
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When I came to this.. I don't know his name, he's SS, you know.

111
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And eh, he looked at me and said, "how old are you?". And you see, I spoke German a bit.

112
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Because, in my village, we had Schwaben.

113
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Schwaben is a Deutsches, Deutsch Volk you know, they were called Schwaben.

114
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And I learned from them. Quite a bit. So I understood.

115
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So one of the guy said to me: "Don't tell him your age, tell him you're 16."

116
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Then you survive, the others won't survive." But he told me under quiet.

117
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I didn't believe him. I thought, nobody would... Civilized country do something like that. No, that's impossible.

118
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So the women and the men we were lined up to get our number. Auschwitz number, you see.

119
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And then after they got the number they sent us.. They took away our clothes, our shoes, everything.

120
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They gave us different clothes. Stripe clothes. And then, the same number, they put on here, on the clothes.

121
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And then I looked around a sort of women, lining up on the other side of it. They were all naked, cut their hairs off, cut everything off, going in to have a, have a shower.

122
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You know. That's what they thought they are gonna have.

123
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I was wondering, I was a kind and I was wondering, why don't they come out from the shower?

124
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I asked some other guy, and he said: "Because they were gased, they are dead, how would they come out". I didn't know it. I still didn't believe it.

125
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You know, that anybody could do things like that.

126
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I mean, eh. And then I heard, you see, that.. I wasn't in there, it was Sonderkommando who done all that.

127
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When they took 'em out. Apparently they took.. they were so tight in there, they took so many people as they can.

128
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I understand they were about 12 to 20 thousand a day, were gased, every day. 24 hours. But I didn't notice. It was so tight in there.

129
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They took children. Stored them on top of it, because they didn't fall down even.

130
00:10:58,000 --> 00:11:06,466
So ehm. I, I, I've never saw my parents anymore, that was it, I never saw them again. So then I ehh.

131
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IV: Also your sisters.

132
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LK: They were all gone. Actually, one sister actually survived. But she haven't... She was liberated by the Russians.

133
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I heard. I mean, I never saw her. They liber... I mean, I look after her after the war.

134
00:11:19,367 --> 00:11:24,699
And eh. This guy, Farkas boy, he was in love with her, that's why he never got married.

135
00:11:24,700 --> 00:11:29,999
You know, the older boy, Zoltán. He never got married. Because he always loved her.

136
00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:37,299
My father promised him my sister. So ehm, yes. She died, you know.

137
00:11:37,300 --> 00:11:40,999
Some people said she died of a heart attack. She was only 17.

138
00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:48,666
Some people said she died of the runs. You know. Because of the food they were giving her. So, I cried my eyes out.

139
00:11:48,667 --> 00:11:56,266
Because I went to Prague to find her, and it's the only one I have left, I was really looking forward to see her, you know, to see that one sister.

140
00:11:56,267 --> 00:12:01,566
I wasn't lucky. So I came back to Indersdorf. I picked up an American truck.

141
00:12:01,567 --> 00:12:11,332
You know, those trucks, asking for lift. And I managed to get back to Indersdorf. You know. Into the, ehm, cloister. And ehm.

142
00:12:11,333 --> 00:12:17,199
That's why I managed to get back. But that's only one. So then they sent me to work.

143
00:12:17,200 --> 00:12:19,266
IV: Ehm.

144
00:12:19,267 --> 00:12:19,599
LK: So.

145
00:12:19,600 --> 00:12:21,599
IV: In Auschwitz. It's over.

146
00:12:21,600 --> 00:12:33,332
LK: Eh, it was in Birkenau, actually, but they sent me...eh... I understood from Zoltán, he was a bit older than me, he says, he wasn't in Auschwitz, it was the area, but it was Buna actually.

147
00:12:33,333 --> 00:12:35,866
That's why he told me it today. So maybe he's right.

148
00:12:35,867 --> 00:12:39,432
Because that's where all the workers were, you know, and I know,

149
00:12:39,433 --> 00:12:45,666
It was the coldest winter, in 1944, and we had just thin clothes on.

150
00:12:45,667 --> 00:12:54,499
By the way, I was gonna tell you, the time we got to Auschwitz on this train, it's already, I think it was 66 people, died already on the train, you know.

151
00:12:54,500 --> 00:12:59,932
Just getting there. Before anything else. With especially the older people. You know.

152
00:12:59,933 --> 00:13:01,666
IV: Only in your car, in your waggon.

153
00:13:01,667 --> 00:13:02,699
LK: No, no, in the whole train.

154
00:13:02,700 --> 00:13:03,232
IV: In the whole train.

155
00:13:03,233 --> 00:13:06,299
LK: In the whole train. It was 66 people who died, in the whole train.

156
00:13:06,300 --> 00:13:14,932
But it was only, it was 1650 on the train.You know. So, yes, I forgot to tell you that. Ha.

157
00:13:14,933 --> 00:13:17,066
Coming, jumping from one place to the other. Anyway.

158
00:13:17,067 --> 00:13:17,999
IV: No problem.

159
00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:23,866
LK: Yes, so then he sent me to work. We had to get up, it was about 5 in the morning.

160
00:13:23,867 --> 00:13:28,732
Standing Appell. You know. Straight there for about two hours, I don't know why.

161
00:13:28,733 --> 00:13:32,532
Sometimes they took other field guys and hanged them, we had to watch. All that.

162
00:13:32,533 --> 00:13:40,632
For no reason. A bit of fun, I suppose, for them. Ehm... And then they took me to work.

163
00:13:40,633 --> 00:13:46,332
And what I've done is actually started on the cemetery, building railway lines. On the, for the trains.

164
00:13:46,333 --> 00:13:46,699
IV: Yea.

165
00:13:46,700 --> 00:13:51,999
LK: You know, and I was doing those woods across the...carry those... what 20 of us.

166
00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:58,666
It was going: "Hau..rrruck", I remember. Oh, hah, that's how it was going. I still remember the words today.

167
00:13:58,667 --> 00:14:12,332
So I went to work, you see. So ehm, and then, ehm, everyday, just the same thing, getting up early. In the barrack, if I remember correctly, you know..

168
00:14:12,333 --> 00:14:16,466
There was only one pot to go for Wee Wee in the morning. You know. And if that was full..

169
00:14:16,467 --> 00:14:19,999
It was snow outside, bitter cold. You had to take it out and empty it.

170
00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:26,666
I was watching it, making sure that I am not the last one. Because then you had to do it, you see.

171
00:14:26,667 --> 00:14:34,999
We slept about, if I remember correctly, I think it was three bunk beds.. around 3 or 4 in the bed, you know. Those bunk beds.

172
00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:45,166
It was, you know, I thought it was Auschwitz, but Zoltán is tellin' me: "If you went to work, you know, you must have gone to Buna, or Kattowitz, one of those places".

173
00:14:45,167 --> 00:14:46,666
IV: Ehm, ehm.

174
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LK: Ehm. I honestly don't know, you know. I know I went to work everyday, that's what survived me, you see.

175
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And if someone took your shoes away, while you're sleeping, you went in the gas chambers.

176
00:14:58,367 --> 00:15:04,299
I remember one guy, he was working for the musicians.

177
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Alright, and he was playing the music everytime we went to work, and coming in.

178
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And as he's sitting there, he's seeing his brother, and his family, coming in.

179
00:15:14,333 --> 00:15:22,999
And he was telling me that: "I knew the SS very well because I was playing them types of music.

180
00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:26,999
And I asked them, you think you could help my brother, do something?"

181
00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:33,032
And he, and he said: "You know what? I can help you, so you go with him. In the same place".

182
00:15:33,033 --> 00:15:37,499
So, obviously people fight for their lives so he didn't want to go with his brother.

183
00:15:37,500 --> 00:15:42,632
But he told his brother: "You're gonna go to the gas chamber now.

184
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And eh, there is one thing I can tell you, you try and stay in the middle, because you'll be dead in five minutes.

185
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If you stay in the end it takes 20 minutes, 24 minutes to die."

186
00:15:52,733 --> 00:15:57,366
I thought to myself, these are terrible things, to tell your own brother.

187
00:15:57,367 --> 00:16:00,332
You know, you gonna go, and then you gonna die, you know. I mean.

188
00:16:00,333 --> 00:16:04,999
I can't imagine, you know. Me, saying that, I still can't get over that part.

189
00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:08,766
You know. And the guy was telling the truth. He wouldn't tell me, seeing his brother coming.

190
00:16:08,767 --> 00:16:14,599
What's the point in telling storys about that. There are certain things I remember as well.

191
00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:18,932
And there was one lady, funny enough. The train came in from Holland.

192
00:16:18,933 --> 00:16:24,099
Jewish people from Holland came in. And this woman was a smart, dressed. You know.

193
00:16:24,100 --> 00:16:29,532
I should... I picked up a bag to help her. You know. She gave me a tip.

194
00:16:29,533 --> 00:16:34,132
I didn't like to say that, "you are going to go to the gas chambers". You know. She didn't know.

195
00:16:34,133 --> 00:16:40,366
But another thing is that things, certain things you remember, certain things you don't. Which clicks.

196
00:16:40,367 --> 00:16:49,599
The other thing I remember from Auschwitz was.. Zoltán's grandfather, was, in the, in the, I don't, I don't know if he told you, but he was in the First World War.

197
00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:54,732
You know. And, I for sure thi.. eh, cause I know him, I've seen him many times.

198
00:16:54,733 --> 00:16:57,032
I've seen him on the pickup truck, you know.

199
00:16:57,033 --> 00:17:02,566
With those trucks {unintelligible} and it's because it's either you can walk, and he had no legs.

200
00:17:02,567 --> 00:17:05,766
I know he had no... he got German medals from the war.

201
00:17:05,767 --> 00:17:08,699
So I've seen him up there, and I said: "What the heck are you doing up there?"

202
00:17:08,700 --> 00:17:11,466
You know. I waved to him like this.

203
00:17:11,467 --> 00:17:17,699
And all of a sudden the truck stopped, there was a big hole, tilted over, and put gas and burned them alive..

204
00:17:17,700 --> 00:17:21,966
That's the thanks he got for, eh, for the medals.

205
00:17:21,967 --> 00:17:26,666
And that's attacking me for many many times, you know, that's attacking me many times.

206
00:17:26,667 --> 00:17:36,999
Ehm, from there, I don't know if you know, it's.. When we're gone from Auschwitz, there's nothing much... Believe me, I don't remember much about it. You know.

207
00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:51,066
IV: Can you remember but, how they treated you, you have been working, what about the food, the physical conditions of you and the other people with you in the barracks?

208
00:17:51,067 --> 00:17:56,299
LK: Well the conditions were very bad because I tell you why, even standing in Appell, a lot of people got frozen, it was very cold.

209
00:17:56,300 --> 00:18:04,466
So I had to be waving all the time. They told me. You know, otherwise you'll freeze to death. Because it is too cold.

210
00:18:04,467 --> 00:18:17,466
Ehm, the conditions of work, we used to get actually in the morning when we got up, we got a coffee, black coffee, about a little square of margarine, and a, and a... slice of bread.

211
00:18:17,467 --> 00:18:24,199
That was our breakfast. Ehm, and then lunch time, I remember, we used to get a fishbones soup.

212
00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:26,766
A plate of soup, like a jar of soup.

213
00:18:26,767 --> 00:18:31,699
And then in the evening when we came in with the same soup again, but it was a thick soup.

214
00:18:31,700 --> 00:18:38,899
With different... vegetables mostly, I don't know what it was in there. But what it was, it was good, you know.

215
00:18:38,900 --> 00:18:41,999
And that was everyday the same thing. You know.

216
00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:45,166
Except for Christmas, they gave us a bit little nicer food for Christmas.

217
00:18:45,167 --> 00:18:48,066
And they gave everybody cigarettes, which I didn't smoke anyway.

218
00:18:48,067 --> 00:18:52,499
But ehm, other than that we had the same food every day.

219
00:18:52,500 --> 00:18:56,666
Funny enough, I've never lost any weight, I just the same all the time.

220
00:18:56,667 --> 00:18:59,999
Somehow it was enough to sustain me. You know. I worked.

221
00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:03,199
I did get actually fine enough 30 lashes one day.

222
00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:09,332
It's because it I wasn't well that day, I was very sick. So I couldn't tell them I was sick.

223
00:19:09,333 --> 00:19:11,999
I was frightened If I tell them I am sick they will go shoot me.

224
00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:16,099
So eh, I went to the toilet, you see, and stood there for a while.

225
00:19:16,100 --> 00:19:19,866
I come back in, then I am going back to the toilet came the guy on guard and watched me.

226
00:19:19,867 --> 00:19:21,632
I didn't know he was watching me.

227
00:19:21,633 --> 00:19:26,599
And he pulled me in, and he said: "You know what, you've been 5 times already to that toilet, you can't have that."

228
00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:31,399
So he said: "I am not gonna shoot you, but I am going to give you 30 lashes to learn you a lesson".

229
00:19:31,400 --> 00:19:37,066
So, he told me to drop the pants, 30 lashes, and then my {unintelligible}.

230
00:19:37,067 --> 00:19:40,866
That's what the only time really I had anything. I didn't believe it.

231
00:19:40,867 --> 00:19:45,166
But, It's the same thing, you know what. I had, for some reason,

232
00:19:45,167 --> 00:19:54,632
I don't know where I got it from. A big, a yellow, you know, balloon come up, on my, here, the mark is still there actually, today, right here.

233
00:19:54,633 --> 00:19:59,399
And it coming up. I didn't know what to do, you know, say to some, you know.

234
00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:03,999
And It was so big and so painful. So I just collapsed, laid on the floor.

235
00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:10,166
Here comes this guy, this Kapo, one of these, you know, and just put his foot on top of it. Would you believe it?

236
00:20:10,167 --> 00:20:15,799
There's burst and it's been alright after that. He just put a foot on top of it. He just went - bang -  down there.

237
00:20:15,800 --> 00:20:23,832
You know, so, then I changed, and it was hard afterwards, They changed me to carry cement.

238
00:20:23,833 --> 00:20:27,332
I made so much mistakes. He asked me: "How many people are on that train?"

239
00:20:27,333 --> 00:20:31,599
I said: "100 thousand". Because this is a child. I thought, you know, look, I saw no end of this train.

240
00:20:31,600 --> 00:20:32,499
IV: Yea, yea, yea.

241
00:20:32,500 --> 00:20:37,632
LK: You know. So I mentioned that afterwards, I said, you know, he said: "Don't worry about it, it happens".

242
00:20:37,633 --> 00:20:43,166
You know. And then, another mistake I made also, he asked me a few things, and it wasn't correct, you know.

243
00:20:43,167 --> 00:20:45,999
Hah. You see. Like, "how many people were on the gas chambers?"

244
00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:50,166
I wouldn't know, if I was there, I wouldn't be here. Ha, you know.

245
00:20:50,167 --> 00:20:57,299
Because I know Sonderkommando, it was their business to do that, but you know, every 3 months, they were, they were in the gas chambers.

246
00:20:57,300 --> 00:21:00,666
So not to talk. You know, the same people.

247
00:21:00,667 --> 00:21:04,132
So that's why I've never joined the Sonderkommando. Yea. And you know what.

248
00:21:04,133 --> 00:21:05,932
There was... Oh, you're taping already, ah?

249
00:21:05,933 --> 00:21:06,332
IV: Yes. yes.

250
00:21:06,333 --> 00:21:07,866
LK: Oh, sorry, ha.

251
00:21:07,867 --> 00:21:08,532
IV: No, no.

252
00:21:08,533 --> 00:21:17,832
LK: Ehm, yes, because, you know then they said: "Anybody who is educated, you know, like professors, thing and, we have a nice job for them.

253
00:21:17,833 --> 00:21:25,699
Well then, please, come forward. So a lot of people that wasn't even edcuated, they were all going forward, thinking, you know, they were gonna have a better life.

254
00:21:25,700 --> 00:21:30,999
And there. I didn't go forward. I found out afterwards, you know, they all went to the gas chambers.

255
00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:34,899
It was just a trick. They didn't want any educated Jews at all.

256
00:21:34,900 --> 00:21:38,432
They didn't want any Jews to be educated. So they just got rid of them.

257
00:21:38,433 --> 00:21:43,966
So in a way, I was lucky I didn't go there. Well, I wasn't educated, haha, so.

258
00:21:43,967 --> 00:21:52,999
But I could have done, you know. So there's a few mistakes I made, but anyways...

259
00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:59,566
And of top of it, I spoke a lot in Yiddish, as opposed to be in English, so a lot of people don't understand.

260
00:21:59,567 --> 00:22:02,266
Like they asked me what my father was. You know.

261
00:22:02,267 --> 00:22:06,932
And, of course, I told him he wasn't only a Rabbi, but he was also, because of the village.

262
00:22:06,933 --> 00:22:12,599
He was also, ehm. You see, the Jewish religion, you know, you're not allowed to cut your own animal.

263
00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:16,399
You have to be a vet. You know, to know all about, you know.

264
00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:21,999
And it has to be, the animal has gotta be, you know, ehm..

265
00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:25,099
That you know to check up the meat before you give it to anybody else.

266
00:22:25,100 --> 00:22:28,832
To see if there's any disease in there, or anything like, nothing perfect.

267
00:22:28,833 --> 00:22:36,632
So my father had to study 7 terms in like a high school type of thing to learn all about this.

268
00:22:36,633 --> 00:22:40,232
And then he became a shochet, it's called "a Shoychet" in Hebrew.

269
00:22:40,233 --> 00:22:42,032
It is funny because all the family were Shoychetim.

270
00:22:42,033 --> 00:22:49,166
You know. Because, my grandfather was one, and my father had a brother, he was one.

271
00:22:49,167 --> 00:22:53,199
He lived, funny enough, in Romania, not in Hungary. So he didn't come to Auschwitz.

272
00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:58,232
He lived in a place called Moinești. Ehm, no, Ploiești, sorry.

273
00:22:58,233 --> 00:23:03,299
My uncle lived, my grandfather lived in Moinești, he was also a shochet.

274
00:23:03,300 --> 00:23:12,799
My, my uncle lived in Moinești as a Shoychet, Ploiești I mean, and my other uncle lived in Bucharest. He was also a shochet.

275
00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:20,999
So, one of the... I don't remember the one, the one in Bucharest, I don't remember, he went to New York, and I somehow lost contact with him.

276
00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:27,666
But my other uncle, looked like my father, he went to Israel. Right? With three sons, he has three sons.

277
00:23:27,667 --> 00:23:31,066
And you know, all the three sons are Shoychetim, they do the same thing.

278
00:23:31,067 --> 00:23:39,432
It's funny how the family.. You know. So, one of them is in Portugal, you know, eh not Portugal, sorry, Brazil.

279
00:23:39,433 --> 00:23:43,232
Ehm, he, he, he, he se.. he sends back meat to Israel.

280
00:23:43,233 --> 00:23:49,199
Because, you know, they have got no cows up there, so he sends back meat, Kosher meat back to Israel.

281
00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:49,866
IV: OK.

282
00:23:49,867 --> 00:23:54,566
LK: And the other, my other cousin is in, would you believe it, is in Australia.

283
00:23:54,567 --> 00:23:59,332
He also does the same thing, and the other one lives in Argentinia.

284
00:23:59,333 --> 00:24:02,499
So there are 3 of them sending meat back to Israel.

285
00:24:02,500 --> 00:24:07,999
And the Israeli government pays for that, for that, but they do come home for Jewish holidays.

286
00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:11,232
You know, the big holidays. It's all frozen stuff.

287
00:24:11,233 --> 00:24:16,132
But eh, I don't have much to do with them, because they are too religious.

288
00:24:16,133 --> 00:24:20,366
You know, when you go up there, you gotta be careful what you say, you gotta be careful.

289
00:24:20,367 --> 00:24:24,466
You gotta make sure you wear a hat. You can't go in without a hat.

290
00:24:24,467 --> 00:24:31,866
You know. You gotta wear those Tzitzit, you know, you know the four corners, they represent the four corners of the world.

291
00:24:31,867 --> 00:24:42,999
I had one guy come up to London, when I had my business in London, he come up to see me, and I, and I said to him: "What you wearing those stupid things in London?"

292
00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:47,632
These stupid things hanging like it's four of them. He says: "What, it's the four corners of the world".

293
00:24:47,633 --> 00:24:52,766
I said: "Did you hear the latest news, the world is round".

294
00:24:52,767 --> 00:25:00,866
He says to me, he says, he says, he says "no", he says, "this is the religion", he says.

295
00:25:00,867 --> 00:25:06,032
So ok, you know. I mean, they live mostly by tradition.

296
00:25:06,033 --> 00:25:11,366
They don't care. To them it's the right thing to do. It's all tradition to them. You know.

297
00:25:11,367 --> 00:25:12,699
IV: Well, let's go back to Auschwitz.

298
00:25:12,700 --> 00:25:16,999
LK: Yes, let's go back to Auschwitz. What do you want to know, how did I get out of there?

299
00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:25,066
IV: Yes... So do you remember how many weeks or months you've been there? In Auschwitz?

300
00:25:25,067 --> 00:25:31,632
LK: Yea, I got there actually, funny enough, the beginning of may, 1944.

301
00:25:31,633 --> 00:25:38,232
And we left Auschwitz in January, because the Russians were only 30 miles away.

302
00:25:38,233 --> 00:25:44,232
And they were going to take us to Dachau. The way I understood, right. And they're gonna kill us all off there.

303
00:25:44,233 --> 00:25:50,466
But things never works out the way, you know, they way they're supposed to work out. They took us actually to Oranienburg.

304
00:25:50,467 --> 00:25:52,732
IV: Yes. How did you get there?

305
00:25:52,733 --> 00:25:53,532
LK: By train.

306
00:25:53,533 --> 00:25:54,599
IV: By train.

307
00:25:54,600 --> 00:26:06,532
LK: To Oranienburg, we were there just a few days. And I have, a, from my cousins, ehm, daughter, she's a second cousin to me.

308
00:26:06,533 --> 00:26:18,432
Ehm. She took my finally, into... You see, my wife and her mother were first cousins. And she's the only one left now, in Germany, relations.

309
00:26:18,433 --> 00:26:22,532
And she only speaks German and Russian, she doesn't speak a word of English.

310
00:26:22,533 --> 00:26:28,466
That's why she can't come to England, you see. My daughters can't speak to her in German.

311
00:26:28,467 --> 00:26:35,499
But I speak to her, you know. And, ehm, she took me to Oranienburg, which is not far from Berlin.

312
00:26:35,500 --> 00:26:38,999
And showed me. But, the vandalism, would you believe it, they broke everything.

313
00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:42,132
Not like here. They tore up all the barracks and everything else.

314
00:26:42,133 --> 00:26:48,066
But, there is a museum up there now, and it's telling you from each country, how many Jewish people were there.

315
00:26:48,067 --> 00:26:52,366
You know, written on.. from each country, every country. It's quite a lot of people went there, actually.

316
00:26:52,367 --> 00:26:56,232
You know, but that's all that is left. A little museum, one room, there is nothing else in there.

317
00:26:56,233 --> 00:26:59,699
IV: And can you remember your time staying in Oranienburg?

318
00:26:59,700 --> 00:26:59,766
LK: Yes.

319
00:26:59,767 --> 00:27:02,399
IV: What happened to you? Eh.

320
00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:06,899
LK: Funny enough, I didn't remember it. Because when Spielberg asked me, I didn't know where I was.

321
00:27:06,900 --> 00:27:14,199
And, and, my, this cousin asked me, can I take you to Oranienburg, I can't remember {unintelligible}. As I walked in there... My god, I was here.

322
00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:14,532
IV: Yeah.

323
00:27:14,533 --> 00:27:21,032
LK: You know, I remembered it right away. But when Steven.. I didn't mention Oranienburg, I didn't know I was there even.

324
00:27:21,033 --> 00:27:23,732
I didn't know, anyway. So, yes, I see it.

325
00:27:23,733 --> 00:27:26,966
And she also showed me nice Synagogues in Berlin.

326
00:27:26,967 --> 00:27:30,066
But it was very difficult, there was the police there all the time.

327
00:27:30,067 --> 00:27:32,999
I didn't met anybody in there. You know, in these synagogues.

328
00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:37,832
Anyway, there was also on how many Jewish people lived actually in Berlin.

329
00:27:37,833 --> 00:27:42,999
Ehm, my wife was telling me, when she was living in Berlin, for instance, you know.

330
00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:49,366
They used to go to Jewish cafes, you know. And it was the best coffee, afternoon {unintelligible} cakes.

331
00:27:49,367 --> 00:27:51,999
You know, there was their favorite place to go. You know.

332
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:54,632
IV: But back, back, back to the hard times.

333
00:27:54,633 --> 00:27:56,366
LK: Yes, back to the hard times, yes, sorry.

334
00:27:56,367 --> 00:28:06,499
IV: Even if it is not funny. Yes so, eh, you came by train to Oranienburg, how do you know, how long the transports was, the conditions.

335
00:28:06,500 --> 00:28:09,666
LK: I can't remember, honestly. I just can't remember.

336
00:28:09,667 --> 00:28:13,299
First I thought, maybe I am wrong, I don't know, first I thought we marched out first.

337
00:28:13,300 --> 00:28:15,699
And then we took the train to Oranienburg.

338
00:28:15,700 --> 00:28:20,966
Because, it was a big lapse, from there, til the time I come to Flossenbürg.

339
00:28:20,967 --> 00:28:24,699
Because in Flossenbürg, I know, it was the first week in April.

340
00:28:24,700 --> 00:28:25,199
IV: Ehm.

341
00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:27,666
LK: We got to Flossenbürg, this I know.

342
00:28:27,667 --> 00:28:33,999
So I can't imagine, what happened from January, til eh, til April, what happened there.

343
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:37,899
Now, I know for a fact, you see. Now where was it?

344
00:28:37,900 --> 00:28:42,666
Was it from Flossenbürg to here? You know, from where did I walk? You know.

345
00:28:42,667 --> 00:28:48,732
From Flossenbürg to Indersdorf. Schwandorf? Was it that area? Or, because that couldn't have been.

346
00:28:48,733 --> 00:29:00,866
Because what, what happened from January to April? Right, so I personally think.. We did come to a forrest, you know.

347
00:29:00,867 --> 00:29:04,732
Because I remember marching out, we didn't take the train right away.

348
00:29:04,733 --> 00:29:08,966
But it's too many people died. You see. Because every minute I could hear a shot.

349
00:29:08,967 --> 00:29:14,466
Somebody, somebody was weak. Got shot. And I remember I used to carry a blanket with me.

350
00:29:14,467 --> 00:29:17,099
And after a week I didn't want to carry the blanket.

351
00:29:17,100 --> 00:29:19,999
Blankets? There died so many people, just pick up a blanket.

352
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:28,999
Some people {unintelligible} a blanket. And the... Farkas boy, he was was with me in this march. I should have asked him, actually.

353
00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:32,666
He was the oldest boy, he was more, more knowledgeable about things.

354
00:29:32,667 --> 00:29:36,266
See, I didn't speak a lot about the war because of my wife being German.

355
00:29:36,267 --> 00:29:43,266
I didn't wanna, you know, thinking of her people done so bad to me, you know, because she doesn't had to get too conscious.

356
00:29:43,267 --> 00:29:46,632
You know. Anyway, so I didn't wanna, so.

357
00:29:46,633 --> 00:29:54,699
But I know that they must have been, before we went to Oranienburg, honestly, there must have been a way.

358
00:29:54,700 --> 00:29:59,466
What did you do from January more or less, we left in January.

359
00:29:59,467 --> 00:30:03,232
Till we come to Flossenbürg. So where were you? You see.

360
00:30:03,233 --> 00:30:06,499
So I think we were on this death march, you see.

361
00:30:06,500 --> 00:30:10,466
And, because I remember everybody died, most of the people died, in the way.

362
00:30:10,467 --> 00:30:13,699
And I remember we had nothing to eat. That's why I started to losing weight.

363
00:30:13,700 --> 00:30:19,499
I was just bones, skeletons. Because I remember eating grass, because there was nothing else to eat.

364
00:30:19,500 --> 00:30:23,132
There was no food, nothing. Nothing coming through. No drinks, no nothing.

365
00:30:23,133 --> 00:30:26,966
We were just.. Picked up, wherever I could. In the forrest. That I remember.

366
00:30:26,967 --> 00:30:31,532
But now was that, afterwards, was that.. marching there.

367
00:30:31,533 --> 00:30:40,432
Or maybe we were in Oranienburg, only a week, maybe, or a few days, and then from Oranienburg we marched, you see, that could be as well, you see.

368
00:30:40,433 --> 00:30:45,766
Ehm, yeah. Death march was terrible, the death march. I tell you.

369
00:30:45,767 --> 00:30:50,699
If it wasn't for those two boys, I don't think I would be here today, because they did help me many times.

370
00:30:50,700 --> 00:30:57,166
There was one case, where he, ehm... when they were already on the trains, on these trains.

371
00:30:57,167 --> 00:31:07,799
Where he, ehm... It was an air raid, and the guards were all went hiding, so he managed to get out and to go the field and pinch.. steal a few potatoes.

372
00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:12,132
And he gave me a potato. I remember. That brought me back again, a bit.

373
00:31:12,133 --> 00:31:15,932
That was Zoltán who has done it for me. But eh..

374
00:31:15,933 --> 00:31:19,299
If you were caught.. I didn't want him to go, because he would be shot right away.

375
00:31:19,300 --> 00:31:24,166
Because it was a great crime to just go away, you're suppose to stay in there.

376
00:31:24,167 --> 00:31:27,966
He took his chance. His time wasn't up yet, heh.

377
00:31:27,967 --> 00:31:32,099
He is very a nice guy. You know that guy, a really nice guy.

378
00:31:32,100 --> 00:31:38,466
Yes, so ehm, but that's to say, I can't remember, and now you're asking me, I can't. Honestly, I don't remember exactly.

379
00:31:38,467 --> 00:31:43,267
IV: And now, we're here. Yea.