1 00:00:00,033 --> 00:00:04,432 We knocked on the door, the first door, whether we can sleep there. 2 00:00:04,433 --> 00:00:09,399 People were usually good, so they let us sleep. You know, and eh.. 3 00:00:09,400 --> 00:00:13,666 We eventually got to the outskirts of Neunburg. 4 00:00:13,667 --> 00:00:28,632 There was a German man with a white band, came up and he said, he was appointed by the American authorities, they had already occupied, you know, this part of Germany. 5 00:00:28,633 --> 00:00:33,866 By the American authorities, to look after the people coming back from the camps. 6 00:00:33,867 --> 00:00:42,832 They would like accommodate us, give us something to eat, then accommodate us, if we follow him to Neunburg. 7 00:00:42,833 --> 00:00:55,966 We followed him to Neunburg, took us to the eh.. the Stadthalle, you know what it is called, to the townhall. 8 00:00:55,967 --> 00:01:00,366 He took us to the townhall, there was a, two queues. 9 00:01:00,367 --> 00:01:07,066 One queue where you registered, another queue where you got bread. Bread and coffee. 10 00:01:07,067 --> 00:01:09,366 But first, you had to register. 11 00:01:09,367 --> 00:01:15,132 We went, we registered and then we got black bread and coffee. 12 00:01:15,133 --> 00:01:22,732 We were so hungry, you know, when you went - through a window, you got black coffee and a quarter of a bread. 13 00:01:22,733 --> 00:01:29,799 You went back to the queue, ate it up and have another one. This didn't matter. 14 00:01:29,800 --> 00:01:41,399 And then, he came up, this man said, "You wait here. And eh.. I will come, I will come and find you accommodation, with a German family." 15 00:01:41,400 --> 00:01:43,399 We waited a long time. 16 00:01:43,400 --> 00:01:52,966 While we were sitting, waiting, I said to (???) two frenchmen, wearing like brand-new Nazi uniforms. 17 00:01:52,967 --> 00:01:59,532 I said, "Where did you get it?" He said, "Behind there, there's a ladder, it goes up in the loft." 18 00:01:59,533 --> 00:02:11,099 So I went in there, went up the ladder in the loft. Soon got Nazi flags, books, bits of clothing. 19 00:02:11,100 --> 00:02:18,666 So, I found two brown shirts, obviously Hitler Youth. 20 00:02:18,667 --> 00:02:22,532 One was linen shirt, one was (???) shirts. 21 00:02:22,533 --> 00:02:26,299 Brown shirt, it fitted me, I tried it on, it fitted me. 22 00:02:26,300 --> 00:02:43,466 And I found breeches, you know, breeches. Yellow velvet breeches, I found, but fitted me - it was also from obviously, from a Hitler youth because it was small. 23 00:02:43,467 --> 00:02:46,099 And I put this on. 24 00:02:46,100 --> 00:02:52,666 And the jacket I was wearing.. And I found a pair of white socks. 25 00:02:52,667 --> 00:03:05,866 Put it on, I lost, I lost my boots because when we were travelling on the train, we had to jump out, so I thought, they were killing me. 26 00:03:05,867 --> 00:03:11,766 When we came back, there were bodies in the train, they shot up, from the bombing. 27 00:03:11,767 --> 00:03:20,399 So I called out to somebody who was sitting there, I knew him, "Can you get me his shoes?" They were tennis shoes. 28 00:03:20,400 --> 00:03:23,032 White tennis shoes. 29 00:03:23,033 --> 00:03:27,932 So the white tennis shoes was better than shoes that I couldn't walk in. 30 00:03:27,933 --> 00:03:39,266 So I was wearing white tennis shoes. Now, these white socks I put on in the tennis shoes, I looked a picture like this, jacket from the camp and brown shirt. 31 00:03:39,267 --> 00:03:41,632 And another shirt under my arm. 32 00:03:41,633 --> 00:03:42,932 I went down. 33 00:03:42,933 --> 00:03:51,599 While I went down, you know, I went out for something, and two Americans passed by and they looked at me and they burst out laughing. 34 00:03:51,600 --> 00:03:53,832 I was wearing the cap from the camp. 35 00:03:53,833 --> 00:03:56,932 They burst out laughing at me, you know. 36 00:03:56,933 --> 00:04:05,199 I went back. I went back, sitting there, waiting, in came two Hitler Youths, in full uniform. 37 00:04:05,200 --> 00:04:12,999 One was wearing a rucksack and hanging from the rucksack, were jackboots. 38 00:04:13,000 --> 00:04:18,532 German army boots. Brand new. Like just from the factory. 39 00:04:18,533 --> 00:04:24,232 And he was wearing a pair of (???) boots, you know. 40 00:04:24,233 --> 00:04:30,632 I looked at him, I said, "Hitler youths?" They said, "No, no, they are refugees." 41 00:04:30,633 --> 00:04:32,666 I said, "I know better." 42 00:04:32,667 --> 00:04:39,999 I said, "Look. You got two pair of boots, I have none, I want - I want one pair of boots." 43 00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:44,599 They said to me, "Do you mind if I gave you the one that I was wearing?" 44 00:04:44,600 --> 00:04:56,866 But I said, "That's fine with me." They were too, the size was too big for me anyway. So he took off, he took off and he gave me. 45 00:04:56,867 --> 00:05:05,932 Actually, about a few minutes later, two American military policemen came in and arrested them. 46 00:05:05,933 --> 00:05:09,232 I don't know, how.. and took them away. 47 00:05:09,233 --> 00:05:20,466 So this, this - I had yellow boots, white socks, and these high boots.. I was a really picture. And I was waiting there. 48 00:05:20,467 --> 00:05:22,699 Eventually, the man came in. 49 00:05:22,700 --> 00:05:25,399 He said, "You come with me." 50 00:05:25,400 --> 00:05:32,432 He went to a house, knocked on the door. He said, "We are full up." The old story. 51 00:05:32,433 --> 00:05:39,199 Everywhere he went in an apartment block, every door - "Full up." Every house - "Full up." 52 00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:43,399 And whatever he has told.. So. 53 00:05:43,400 --> 00:05:51,599 He looked at his watch, he said, "It will be curfew", the Americans also instituted curfew for the Germans. 54 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:54,266 He said, "I have to go back." 55 00:05:54,267 --> 00:06:02,066 So we went back to the townhall, he went to the man who was in charge of these people. 56 00:06:02,067 --> 00:06:07,132 He said, "I'm sorry, I couldn't find him accommodation." 57 00:06:07,133 --> 00:06:16,266 He said, "You will be in trouble or we will be in trouble if we don't find him accommodation. Because of our orders, we must find him accommodation." 58 00:06:16,267 --> 00:06:19,432 So he said, "Do you mind if I take them home?" 59 00:06:19,433 --> 00:06:32,266 He said, "I have a house, a big house, but I already have refugees from East Germany and I also have got two gypsy boys." 60 00:06:32,267 --> 00:06:38,266 He said, "I don't mind, as long as you give them accommodation." 61 00:06:38,267 --> 00:06:43,432 So he took, he took us home, in Neunburg, an enormous house. 62 00:06:43,433 --> 00:06:47,866 Gave us a room, first floor. 63 00:06:47,867 --> 00:06:56,132 And eh, the.. lady from East Germany came in and said, "What would you like for breakfast?" 64 00:06:56,133 --> 00:06:59,266 I said, "Whatever it's going.." 65 00:06:59,267 --> 00:07:03,732 You know, we're not used to it. 66 00:07:03,733 --> 00:07:14,632 And eh.. We were, we were living in Neunburg at this, in this house for a little while. 67 00:07:14,633 --> 00:07:19,366 The Americans took it over as their headquarters because it was bigger now. 68 00:07:19,367 --> 00:07:26,532 And then we moved to another place where we were told a Kapo is living upstairs. 69 00:07:26,533 --> 00:07:31,199 They gave us one room. They had no children, so. 70 00:07:31,200 --> 00:07:34,066 They had plenty of room to themselves. 71 00:07:34,067 --> 00:07:43,199 I already met some people from the camps who were liberated before us. 72 00:07:43,200 --> 00:07:49,499 And one told me, he got some food, he's got a sack full of rice. 73 00:07:49,500 --> 00:07:52,566 He said, "You want some rice?", I said no.. 74 00:07:52,567 --> 00:08:12,399 One day.. two boys, got jobs with the Americans, one in the kitchen and one eh, was cleaning for American officers, their accommodation. 75 00:08:12,400 --> 00:08:14,066 He was cleaning. 76 00:08:14,067 --> 00:08:31,566 I couldn't because a few days earlier, we, not a few days, it must have been a week or a couple of weeks, we heard that there are some Jewish women in the camp in Schwandorf. 77 00:08:31,567 --> 00:08:41,866 But we had to get to Schwandorf because we thought, maybe there's my sister or my mother, you know, we have to get to Schwandorf. 78 00:08:41,867 --> 00:08:52,966 So we went out on the road, we saw a German lorry, it had big chimneys of it burning wood because they had no petrol. 79 00:08:52,967 --> 00:09:00,099 I don't know.. I know the chimneys, and they were going up the hill, they couldn't, they had to get off to push it. 80 00:09:00,100 --> 00:09:03,766 So we thought we will join them, there were several German. 81 00:09:03,767 --> 00:09:12,466 They let us on this waggon and they were going past Schwandorf. 82 00:09:12,467 --> 00:09:19,499 So we knocked on the door and said to the driver, "Do you mind, when you come to Schwandorf, you let us off?" 83 00:09:19,500 --> 00:09:24,799 He didn't answer. We come to Schwandorf, he wouldn't let us off. 84 00:09:24,800 --> 00:09:33,666 We decided to jump, the two boys jumped, they were alright, I jumped, fell like this, broke my arm. 85 00:09:33,667 --> 00:09:42,599 So my arm was broken, so I was taken back to eh.. to Neunburg. 86 00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:51,699 Where they called the American army, sent an army doctor. 87 00:09:51,700 --> 00:09:56,732 He took my right away to the hospital, in Neunburg. 88 00:09:56,733 --> 00:10:07,266 And eh.. And they immediately x-rayed it and put it in plaster. 89 00:10:07,267 --> 00:10:16,232 So I couldn't work, I was there.. all day long, walking in town, seeing boys. 90 00:10:16,233 --> 00:10:20,966 One day, there was a notice. 91 00:10:20,967 --> 00:10:41,566 Outside the townhall.. that anyone of the refugees from the camps who wants to emigrate to America or England or Canada, should register. 92 00:10:41,567 --> 00:10:50,532 So everyone, there were thirty-odd of us in town, everybody registered. 93 00:10:50,533 --> 00:11:09,999 Later on, another notice, everyone who registered should come at such and such date to the townhall, there will be a.. you know, transport waiting for you. And so on.. 94 00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:18,499 So we all, you know, happy, you know, took everything, our suitcase. 95 00:11:18,500 --> 00:11:32,466 There was an American transport vehicle, with a, two, one G.I. and the driver. 96 00:11:32,467 --> 00:11:40,099 And we each caught an iron ration, you know, the Americans have the food, an iron ration. Food.. 97 00:11:40,100 --> 00:11:46,299 On you go, onto the, we are driving, we are going to England. 98 00:11:46,300 --> 00:11:57,399 One chap was wearing a top hat he got somewhere, and it was trying and singing "Wir fahren nach England.." You know, everybody so happy. 99 00:11:57,400 --> 00:12:04,632 About lunchtime, we came to a village called Winzer. Do you know the area? 100 00:12:04,633 --> 00:12:06,632 IV: A little bit, but I don't.. 101 00:12:06,633 --> 00:12:09,699 SB: Near, near Deggendorf. 102 00:12:09,700 --> 00:12:21,666 We came to Winzer, the lorry stops, guards, Polish soldiers and American soldiers. 103 00:12:21,667 --> 00:12:26,766 Open, drive in, the G.I. comes out, "All down." 104 00:12:26,767 --> 00:12:31,566 I said, "We are not going down, we are going to England." We thought, we are driving to - 105 00:12:31,567 --> 00:12:44,732 He said, "I don't know where you're going, I've got here my orders, I should drive you here and leave you here and come back, come back empty. You get off here." 106 00:12:44,733 --> 00:12:49,999 I said, "Where, where are we?" We were in the Polish military camp. 107 00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:55,099 We had to get off, we had no option. 108 00:12:55,100 --> 00:13:03,332 We got off, a Polish officer came, he said, "Come, I'll show you where you are going to live." 109 00:13:03,333 --> 00:13:05,766 Two barracks, we had. 110 00:13:05,767 --> 00:13:17,299 And he said, "Your food, you get together with the soldiers. You queue up and you will get your food in the morning, at lunchtime." 111 00:13:17,300 --> 00:13:24,266 We had quite little ones as well, teenagers and little ones.. 112 00:13:24,267 --> 00:13:26,266 We didn't like it. 113 00:13:26,267 --> 00:13:34,632 Because - Oh, yes, they said, "You are not allowed out from the camp. You have to stay where you are." 114 00:13:34,633 --> 00:13:41,066 So it's being from one concentration camp back into the other.. 115 00:13:41,067 --> 00:13:47,232 We stayed there like this, maybe two weeks. 116 00:13:47,233 --> 00:13:50,966 One day, a woman from the UNRRA arrived. 117 00:13:50,967 --> 00:14:05,766 And she called us together, she said, she comes from UNRRA, we are the responsibility of the UNRRA. 118 00:14:05,767 --> 00:14:05,032 We are displaced persons. 119 00:14:05,033 --> 00:14:15,899 And.. she's coming to see whether we are alright. Whether we need anything. She heard we're here. 120 00:14:15,900 --> 00:14:21,599 So we told her, first of all, we don't have enough blankets. 121 00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:28,532 We want radio. We don't know what's going on in the world. We are liberated and we still don't know anything. 122 00:14:28,533 --> 00:14:36,666 And most of all, we want permission to go out whenever we like. We are free men. 123 00:14:36,667 --> 00:14:40,799 Why should we be in prison? 124 00:14:40,800 --> 00:14:46,332 So, she said, she wrote all this down. 125 00:14:46,333 --> 00:14:53,399 She said, "I will be back soon with what, I know, what you need." 126 00:14:53,400 --> 00:14:59,699 She came back the following week - oh yes, we said, and of course, we want to go to England. 127 00:14:59,700 --> 00:15:05,732 She said, "I don't know anything about you going to England. But I make inquiries." 128 00:15:05,733 --> 00:15:11,232 When she came back, she brought a radio, she brought blankets. 129 00:15:11,233 --> 00:15:16,899 And she said, you have permission to leave the camp whenever you like. 130 00:15:16,900 --> 00:15:22,766 The food, you can fetch the food in a kessel, what do you call it? 131 00:15:22,767 --> 00:15:35,632 And.. distribute it yourself, because we wanted extra food for the youngsters, for the people who cleaned, who volunteered to clean and so on. 132 00:15:35,633 --> 00:15:37,366 We got everything. 133 00:15:37,367 --> 00:15:54,399 She said, "As far as it's going to England, you won't go to England from here, but there is a DP camp in Indersdorf, in a place called Kloster Indersdorf. If you want to go there, maybe it will be possible." 134 00:15:54,400 --> 00:15:58,899 So we said yes, we will go anyway. 135 00:15:58,900 --> 00:16:09,666 And that's how we eventually came to Indersdorf. 136 00:16:09,667 --> 00:16:11,932 Not all of us. 137 00:16:11,933 --> 00:16:23,832 Because some of the people in Winzer, in the Polish military camp, escaped during the night. So the two lots of guards escaped. 138 00:16:23,833 --> 00:16:28,432 And the rest decided to wait and see what happens. 139 00:16:28,433 --> 00:16:42,066 Now, that was.. the story how we got to Indersdorf. From Indersdorf, I have to tell the story to .. 140 00:16:42,067 --> 00:16:51,032 IV: Okay, so, eh. Then, before making a little break, I can ask some questions again. 141 00:16:51,033 --> 00:16:51,366 SB: Yes. 142 00:16:51,367 --> 00:16:55,832 IV: I promised you, just tell your story, then some questions. 143 00:16:55,833 --> 00:17:00,266 So, let me say, I did many interviews with Holocaust - 144 00:17:00,267 --> 00:17:02,066 SB: Can you come a... 145 00:17:02,067 --> 00:17:06,999 IV: Speak louder? Can you understand me? You can hear me? 146 00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:07,866 SB: Ja. 147 00:17:07,867 --> 00:17:13,366 IV: I did quite a lot of interviews with people who survived the Holocaust. 148 00:17:13,367 --> 00:17:21,866 And I think your story, it's quite a sad story, but I never met somebody who made it such a funny story. 149 00:17:21,867 --> 00:17:32,032 SB: Now, first of all - I have to thank for, my parents, they were good people, they were generous people. 150 00:17:32,033 --> 00:17:35,666 And the people who knew them, helped me. 151 00:17:35,667 --> 00:17:43,832 Without this help, I don't think I would have survived. And I had luck. 152 00:17:43,833 --> 00:18:04,799 I had such luck, I would tell you.. eh.. about a German farmer, you see, Lodz was started as a town by Germans. Not by Poles. 153 00:18:04,800 --> 00:18:07,699 Lodz was a little village, a nothing. 154 00:18:07,700 --> 00:18:18,366 Then somebody, it was under Russia, it wasn't the Polish government then, this was beginning of 19th century, you know. 155 00:18:18,367 --> 00:18:22,366 It was Russia, it also part - oh! 156 00:18:22,367 --> 00:18:24,432 IV: Jetzt müssen wir einfach unterbrechen, weil sonst - 157 00:18:24,433 --> 00:18:36,932 SB: Somebody had this idea that it would be suitable to start a textile business because it had, for textile, you need particular good, good water. 158 00:18:36,933 --> 00:18:43,532 And they got plenty of land with nothing there. Nothing. It.. 159 00:18:43,533 --> 00:18:52,899 So, the Polish or the Russian government, whoever it was, invited German manifacturers. 160 00:18:52,900 --> 00:18:56,166 They gave them the land for nothing. 161 00:18:56,167 --> 00:19:00,099 Money to build the factories. 162 00:19:00,100 --> 00:19:03,332 Great advantages they had. 163 00:19:03,333 --> 00:19:13,032 And German factories came, manifacturers came, established a wonderful textile business. 164 00:19:13,033 --> 00:19:16,732 Big, Lodz was a big manufacturer. 165 00:19:16,733 --> 00:19:21,199 And of course, Jews came after, afterwards. 166 00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:33,466 Also manufacturers but the biggest ones were German factories, Scheibler and so on. And the lingua franca in the textile eh business, was German. 167 00:19:33,467 --> 00:19:36,232 Everybody spoke German. 168 00:19:36,233 --> 00:19:42,732 And eh, Lodz was actually under German occupation for a while in the First World War. 169 00:19:42,733 --> 00:19:59,832 So, also following the, following the manufacturers were German farmers, were also poor then, and they got land and they, all villages around were German. 170 00:19:59,833 --> 00:20:08,032 And in the business, my father was buying from German villages, their cooperatives. 171 00:20:08,033 --> 00:20:22,032 So, a German farmer would deliver every day, you know, cream and cheese and all products from the cooperative. For years. 172 00:20:22,033 --> 00:20:27,832 And of course, the men who delivered it, became friends, you know, they spoke only German. With my father. 173 00:20:27,833 --> 00:20:42,066 And the man was coming every day, the same man, on friday, he was coming to collect the money, we sat down, my father, drink coffee, smoke the pipe, you know. And talk. 174 00:20:42,067 --> 00:20:57,232 When the German occupied Lodz, on the 6th of eh.. what was it.. of October, there was no food in town. 175 00:20:57,233 --> 00:21:01,832 People were running around trying to buy, you know, food. 176 00:21:01,833 --> 00:21:10,599 He arrived in a big waggon, like - two ladders on each side, a long waggon, full of food. 177 00:21:10,600 --> 00:21:24,866 Big loafs, full, like big, like big wheels, you know, bread and butter and fruit and vegetables, everything he brought. 178 00:21:24,867 --> 00:21:31,399 He unloaded this, unloaded this, my father thanked him very much. 179 00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:33,332 And said, "How much?" 180 00:21:33,333 --> 00:21:49,399 "What do you mean, how much for the goods?", he said. "When I've got plenty of food and I hear my friend has no food, you are going to pay me no, I am not accepting for-?" 181 00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:53,899 So he said, "I will be back again." 182 00:21:53,900 --> 00:21:59,332 A few days or the following week, he was back again, again with food. 183 00:21:59,333 --> 00:22:04,732 This time, he sat down with my father, I remember, he was sitting and crying. 184 00:22:04,733 --> 00:22:18,066 My father told us later, the Polish army abducted his daughter, he had only, he didn't have a wife, his, he was a widower, abducted his daughter. 185 00:22:18,067 --> 00:22:24,966 And he said, his son will be called up in the German army. He said, "Who is going to help on the farm?" 186 00:22:24,967 --> 00:22:29,266 He said, "I can't manage, I'm an old man." He was crying like a baby. 187 00:22:29,267 --> 00:22:39,499 He said, "And I can't come here, can't deliver you more food. The Nazis and the corps refused to give me permission to deliver food to you." 188 00:22:39,500 --> 00:22:45,732 So, this was a parting. 189 00:22:45,733 --> 00:22:53,299 He was such a good man, such a good friend of, of my family. 190 00:22:53,300 --> 00:22:58,999 IV: So, you told us your story. But what happened to the rest of your family? 191 00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:14,632 SB: Ah. I know, I didn't know till 1960s, when I heard, two of my cousins were alive in Israel. 192 00:23:14,633 --> 00:23:21,166 We went to Israel, I met them, they were, they were from a small town near Lodz. 193 00:23:21,167 --> 00:23:25,266 But during the war, they were living in Lodz. 194 00:23:25,267 --> 00:23:28,399 And they could tell me everything. 195 00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:34,332 They said my mother and sister were sent to Auschwitz, together with them. 196 00:23:34,333 --> 00:23:36,699 They were in the same barrack. 197 00:23:36,700 --> 00:23:43,132 My mother was eh, selected. Because she was older. 198 00:23:43,133 --> 00:23:50,432 And when they came to collect her, my sister went with her, they tried to keep her back. 199 00:23:50,433 --> 00:23:53,799 They said to her, "Do you know where they're going?" 200 00:23:53,800 --> 00:24:00,399 My mother turned around and said, "I know where I'm going. Wherever my mother is going, I am going." 201 00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:02,732 So I know, where my mother went. 202 00:24:02,733 --> 00:24:14,999 My father, I think probably, he was selected when he first was taken to Auschwitz because the whole Lodzer Ghetto was transported to Auschwitz. 203 00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:18,132 Some were selected, some were taken to work. 204 00:24:18,133 --> 00:24:27,999 So I guess, my brother, I knew from the camp, what happened to him. So I know what.. And I.. 205 00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:36,132 Distant family, like I had, two, two of my father's cousins were living in Berlin. 206 00:24:36,133 --> 00:24:44,132 They were sent out before, they were thrown out from Germany because they had Polish passports. 207 00:24:44,133 --> 00:24:50,866 One eh, escaped to, to Montevideo. 208 00:24:50,867 --> 00:24:53,299 He survived the war. 209 00:24:53,300 --> 00:24:58,666 And his grandson is still living in Montevideo. 210 00:24:58,667 --> 00:25:00,799 My son went to see him. 211 00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:16,432 And eh, all the family disappeared. Nobody. The close family, I'm the only survivor. Cousins, uncles, nobody. 212 00:25:16,433 --> 00:25:22,166 IV: Maybe, just some sentences - later on, from Indersdorf, you went to England? 213 00:25:22,167 --> 00:25:22,999 SB: Pardon? 214 00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:27,499 IV: From, from Indersdorf, later, you got to England. 215 00:25:27,500 --> 00:25:28,999 SB: I - ? 216 00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:38,566 IV: You got to England, from Indersdorf - Maybe just some sentences, what happened, in England. 217 00:25:38,567 --> 00:25:46,199 SB: Yes, yes. So we stayed in eh, in Indersdorf. 218 00:25:46,200 --> 00:26:00,632 As I said, this is a story.. We stayed there and one day, it was lovely, they really brought us back into civilisation. 219 00:26:00,633 --> 00:26:10,866 I will give an illustration, when we were in Neunburg, we got ration cards. For food. 220 00:26:10,867 --> 00:26:21,232 I remember they gave us double, the food that the Germans, the Americans.. 221 00:26:21,233 --> 00:26:28,799 So they came, when we got the ration cards, the next day we went out to collect meat. 222 00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:34,299 We didn't have a piece of meat for five years. I didn't taste meat. 223 00:26:34,300 --> 00:26:36,366 I didn't know what meat was. 224 00:26:36,367 --> 00:26:44,266 And eh, we went to the butcher. Queue, we came in, we said "This", said "This", you know. 225 00:26:44,267 --> 00:26:46,832 He told us what we can have. 226 00:26:46,833 --> 00:26:49,766 He made up, "It will be 12 marks." 227 00:26:49,767 --> 00:26:53,199 We said, "What, what? What do you mean, 12 marks?" 228 00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:55,499 He said, "12 marks, money." 229 00:26:55,500 --> 00:27:03,966 We didn't know money, we never saw money, for five years, we didn't know that we need to pay. 230 00:27:03,967 --> 00:27:09,066 But they were very understanding, they let us go. 231 00:27:09,067 --> 00:27:22,099 So, next day, we said to the Americans who were outside, "Look, we have no money, we can't expect the people to give us this, we got ration cards, we have to pay." 232 00:27:22,100 --> 00:27:30,299 They gave, the Americans with their own pocket, we didn't know what money was. 233 00:27:30,300 --> 00:27:37,466 So we were wild, we were naive and.. we had different ideas. 234 00:27:37,467 --> 00:27:48,299 In the camp, under the Nazis, truth was a lie and a lie was a truth, you never knew. 235 00:27:48,300 --> 00:27:53,132 They were telling like my brother volunteered to go to Germany, from the Lodzer Ghetto. 236 00:27:53,133 --> 00:28:01,766 They said, "Oh, you going to work in Germany, you get a good salary, you have plenty to eat and you'll be able to ride home..." 237 00:28:01,767 --> 00:28:04,332 And you know, lies, lies. 238 00:28:04,333 --> 00:28:15,732 Everything, like telling is "If you are tired, you will be driven, you know.." Driving to be shot. You know. 239 00:28:15,733 --> 00:28:21,799 So you didn't know what was a truth and we had to lie to, to survive. 240 00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:31,666 And this.. right after, you don't.. you become again civilised at all. It took a long time. 241 00:28:31,667 --> 00:28:45,466 When we were already in England and they take us on a holiday, it was practical a year after, they gave us a holiday. 242 00:28:45,467 --> 00:28:58,466 And eh.. Breakfast, the waiter came in with bread, before, he put a plate full of white bread on the table. And before you went to the door, it was gone. 243 00:28:58,467 --> 00:28:59,666 We called him back. 244 00:28:59,667 --> 00:29:05,932 And this several times, just gobbled up, this was already a year after, we were still... 245 00:29:05,933 --> 00:29:10,699 It took time. To get back. 246 00:29:10,700 --> 00:29:18,632 And then of course, I went to college and you know, so.. 247 00:29:18,633 --> 00:29:33,732 But it took time, believe me. We were raw. You know, they can turn a human into inhumans. 248 00:29:33,733 --> 00:29:38,166 IV: OK, shall we make a break to say hello to Anna? 249 00:29:38,167 --> 00:29:38,732 SB: Ja. 250 00:29:38,733 --> 00:29:40,967 IV: Then..