IV: Good.
SB: I was lucky because there was an alarm. And the light was out.
I slept in a bed with my older brother Roman, it was the passageway.
I told my brother: "Brother, sleep with your head to the passageway."
Because he had...I had already heard: "Where is the little black guy? Where is the little black guy?"
I told him...they are all...usually two men in each bed but many died in the camp.
When someone died, the second man stayed in the bed alone.
Fritz entered the passageway and lifted the blanket and sees my brother, but not me, and moves on.
"Where": and it took a long time. "Where is the little black guy? Where is the little black guy?"
I was silent...I didn't react at all.
The next day I was very careful at roll call to stand upright.
Because if you didn't stand up straight you got slapped or was whipped with the riding crop.
I didn't want them to...beat me. I always stood very straight.
And he went, Fritz walked between the prisoners. And suddenly I fell...with his fist he fired a shot at my head.
I had oh...He didn't reprimand, he didn't say anything. And he moved on.
My brother Roman stood behind me. If he had...if I...had fallen...he held me and he moved on.
After work there was a Russian was with us.
He didn't work, he was part of it.
The Russia came and said: "Fritz said you should go to him."
I had to go, I went.
"Why did you run away yesterday?"
I said: "I didn't run away. I..."
That day there was a soup that caused many people to get diarrhea... after the soup.
I said to him: "I ate the soup yesterday and had diarrhea. I went to the latrine."
The latrine was outside and since it was alarm the light was off, I was afraid
to go back to the living quarters when it's dark.
So I was in the latrine, sat in the latrine. Two hours past before the alarm was over.
I stayed there and went to bed to sleep later.
He took something down from above...he had a bowl with soup. Not the soup that we had been given.
And he gave me the soup.
I was hungry and I was uh...
"Do we say thanks?"
I wanted to say to him: "Thanks: I didn't eat my soup because I had diarrhea."
And I didn't take the soup. He didn't say anything.
"When the diarrhea is over come to me."
"Yes, ok."
Then I went into the kitchen and he didn't come to me again.
We stayed in uh Ganacker...We watched...was more or less uh...
24th of April we left Waging...uh Ganacker again.
When the Americans got closer they took us out of the camp to go on the death march again.
So we walked until May 4, that was seven...eleven days we were walking. Basically without food.
Once a potato was cooked. But basically we had nothing to eat.
Three times there was a snow storm. It was so cold.
And we were 11 men. The SS people...we had a small wagon, from from the airport.
A small wagon, with those small wheels...that's where the SS had their food and uh, the clothes.
There were goods, they couldn't go into a coat.
We dragged them with the car...with the wagon. We were eleven men.
Everyone went ahead of us and we stayed behind. With uh, with five or six SS men, with two dogs.
I don't know what happened to the group that was ahead of us.
Because we always stayed with the SS...five SS men stayed sleeping an a barn alone.
May 3 was very cold and a storm, a snow storm, we went into a barn in a house.
They allowed us to...the SS man asked.
The barn was on the left side, there was a doorway and on the right side was the entrance to the house.
That is where they lived. The SS men slept in the house and we stayed in the barn to sleep.
Of course we went into the barn, it was warm and full of straw. We could sleep well. Warm and soft.
And we slept through the night, we woke up early in the morning...
Maybe that is what led the SS men to say to us "Go away."
One of us...there was a cupboard in the entrance, a...
And there was marmalade with uh...
One of us saw an SS man take a can of marmalade and put it in his bag.
Later he said: "I saw the SS do that. Can I do that too?"
He did it too, he took a can of marmalade.
And one of the SS men came out of the house. It was on the street. Two soldiers came...Wehrmacht...without weapons.
Asked him: "What's going on?"
He says: "The Americans are there, already there."
And the woman, the housewife went outside and she saw that marmalade was missing. She started to yell:
"Ah! I let you sleep here and you stole from me."
The SS men heard her yelling and the Wehrmacht said "The Americans are here."
They said to us: "Get lost!"
We didn't wait for them to say it a second time. We went out.
But where should we go? We didn't know what...We went back to where we came from.
Out and to the right.
A Frenchman was working in the fields. We spoke to him, he spoke to us.
A Wehrmacht officer arrived. He looked at us: "Who are you?"
We said: "We were released by the SS."
He said: "Where are you going?"
We said we didn't now where...we had come from this area, we are going back.
He said: "No, go back on the main street. Because there are lots of SS people here and that is not good for you."
We went out and on that day, afternoon, we saw the first Americans.
Then an armored car came and we sat on the side.
And one of the men with us...one of them did this, he went to every farmer, to every house and begged.
Bread. He got bread and ham. Not a lot but he didn't eat it, he brought it back.
When it was enough for all of us, we sat and ate. Then the armored car came.
We looked at the armored car. We didn't know this, it was something new. We had never seen an armored car before.
Two soldiers sat there. We saw that even the helmet is...Helmet, that is what you say, right?
The helmet wasn't German. We understood then, they were Americans.
We stayed there...later we went back and stayed together.
Spoke to us and we stayed at the barn.
The women from the village came out...what could they do for us?
We said: We would like to sleep. And if possible you could cook a few potatoes."
They cooked a pot of potatoes for us. Boiled potatoes with the skin. And we at that.
Early the next day we got up. We didn't know where to go.
It was a village and later a few houses. We knew this was not a place we could stay.
Until we went back to Waging.
We got to Waging, it was...from the very beginning a military unit.
And we saw there was a kitchen.
Kitchen is good for us. We went to...it was lunch time. They had just finished eating lunch.
We sat down and the Americans, I think they had seen people like us before. It wasn't the first time.
When we sat down the Americans came.
They brought us blankets and shoes and socks and soap and everything that a person needs.
And of course they gave us the food that was left over, it was these squares...pans, large.
There was meat and potatoes. And I got a piece of meat in my mouth...I had to spit it out.
It was too salty. Actually it was salted normally but we had been without salt the whole time so I couldn't eat it.
But one of them ate it. And it put white dots all over his mouth. Burned in his mouth.
He was unable to eat anything for a long time. But slowly we began to eat.
We sat there and an attractive man came...Civilian, German, with a tie, dressed nicely.
I had not seen such an elegant man in years.
He came to us and asked: "Who are you?"
And we told him.
He said: I am the mayor.
And unfortunately I can't give you a room...all the rooms are occupied by the Americans and refugees.
Refugees are coming from the big cities. The first room that becomes available in Waging goes to you."
And that is how it was...yes, he said, "go down there to the barn. I'll talk to the owner of the barn." It was locked.
"He'll open the barn and you can sleep there until a room is free."
That's what we did, we went down, the room uh the barn was open.
There was water not far from the barn.
And in the barn there was no water.
We had soap, we had socks, we had underwear, we already had clothes.
We went down to the water the next day, that was May 5 or May 6.
The water was cold but we hadn't washed ourselves since Oranienburg.
That means that was around late January...we hadn't washed since there. Filthy with lice.
Still today I regret that I had to burn the suit, the clothes from the camp.
And didn't taken any photos the next day.
But the next day we were in Waging, threw all the clothes down and burned them.
Into the water, washed and put on the clean clothes.
Uh, I think that was the second or third night that we were in the barn.
The barn had an entrance and there at the entrance.
We came from that entrance. And in the evening two soldiers, Wehrmacht soldiers came from the street to the entrance.
And they came in, we didn't see them. But early in the morning we saw them there.
One was older...well, for me, a 25 year old man, he was an old man.
But the soldier was ...one was somewhat older but the second one was young...a boy, maybe 17, 18 years old.
We had already eaten...not yet from the city, from Waging...just what we had gotten from the Americans.
But they sat there and didn't have any food.
Roman, my brother, asked him: "Do you have something to eat...Breakfast?" He said "No."
We gave these two soldiers some food. That was two days after the liberation.
The boy didn't understand it, but the old man understood. He started to cry.
He said: "Now, after what they did, and you give me breakfast."
"I think" that was his words, " I think that the world will become good."
So we stayed in this barn, I don't remember how long.
But...we were all given a room. We were eleven men sleeping in one room.
Later there was a woman in the house with two children. She was a refugee.
She went away, left the room, and we got the second room.
I don't remember how long we stayed but Wiedermann had for us...everyone had...
We three came to a family Meier...we were given two rooms. Everyone had left, everyone went to families.
The Hirstein, his wife stayed in bed, went to Waging. He got a flat and was alone.
Then the...came
Not...a Jew had a uh...we weren't Jews..we..That is when we started to be humans.
We were afraid...Well I was a boy. I didn't have the courage to speak with the Germans.
Once there was an American standing near the barn.
And the barn...the American, my brother lit a cigarette.
He lit the cigarette and we stood there and an American soldier came.
My brother said...the American soldier threw away the cigarette and put it out.
The American looked at Alek: "Why did you do that?"
"I saw the American, we are not allowed to smoke."
What did we smoke? Everyone had to smoke, found paper and straw, different...
And wrapped it in paper and smoked.
But when an SS man came, he had to throw it away.
The SS man shouldn't see that he had smoked a cigarette.
And that happened, it was a long time, uh...
We were free but when i walked I turned my head.
to see if I was alone or if the SS man was behind me.
Herr Wiedemann, that was the mayor, gave us...there were food rations cards back then.
So we had the cards...one of us took the cards and the Wiedermann did it for us.
We received food ration cards normally...It was a card with a hard labor bonus.
The hard labor bonus i think was more than the card.
And the one with the card was Hirstein.
That was a butcher with restaurant.
It had everything... the meat cut up and in the bakery the flour portioned out.
There was butter, cheese, everything... And we went to the restaurant everyday for lunch and dinner.
And one of us went to the bakery every day, got bread...We didn't pay for anything.
We didn't have any money to pay.
That's how we did it until '47.
And of course Mr. Wiedermann....we didn't have any clothes.
Back then you couldn't just go into a store and buy clothes. There were points...
Points or like with the food cards, there were also cards for clothes.
We had them once in a while...he gave them to us, so that we could also buy clothes, a coat.
But life in Waging, you see:
My brother danced with a woman once.
And they knew...you see, we were uh... How should I say this?
Decent boys, quiet, well behaved.
They danced...my brother danced with the woman... And she asked him... She knew that we were from the camps.
She asked him. "Why were you...why were you in the camps?"
My brother said: "Because we are Jews."
She said: "No, really, I am asking you why."
He said: "I am telling you the truth."
She didn't believe that we were Jews.
She said: "That can't be."
My brother asked: "Why can't that be?"
"Jews don't look like that...Jews look different."
A Jew looks...with the large nose, with the..on the head, they have uh...
photographed in the Stürmer...The Jews with the prayer...they are praying to our head...with the stomach...with the large nose.
"That can't be" - "Yes, it can be. We are Jews."
Uh, that is part of my...so you see: What I just told you here, that was a quick version.
But the version was cruel.
I can't explain uh, I can't explain every day, what it was like in the camp.
Every day and uh...
There were cruelties. There was one case:
A boy was whistling a Russian song...in Plaszow. A Russ...
The second, I remember, was an engineer. It was roll call and the two men were hanged.
The engineer had cut his hand with a knife.
One could see, he was already, not quite dead, three-quarters dead.
He couldn't walk, they carried him. One could see the blood coming out.
It was an OD-man and ...to hang. What is that called? In German? In Polish we say "szubienica."
IV: Gallows.
SB: How?
IV: Gallows.
SB: Yes? They built that and one of the OD men had a rope around his neck and the other fell down.
According to the International ....you are not allowed to hang someone twice, if they fall down.
But no. It was...I don't remember who was there.
Said to him: "Do it again but if he falls again then you are going on it."
The second time he did it right.
And that was all that was left of a boy, 16, 15, 14 and a half years old, 17 years.
I once had to work not far from uh...
From the border where the barbed wire was. Not far...with my comrade.
I walked by an SS man, from above, the SS man screams.
"They are working...the two are working too slowly. Come with me."
Come with me...he took another SS man with him and sat on an armchair.
My head down, he sat on my head. 25 hits with the riding crop.
The riding crop was so wide, more or less with the hand it was uh 3, 4, centimeters.
And very thin at the end, maybe a half a centimeter. And it was very soft.
He sits on my head and the second one...25.
25...I don't know uh...today that still hurts. But he was not that fat. It was a...and...
I was lucky that he didn't say to me "Pants down."
But usually they did do that. "Pants down."
He beat me through the pants. I got 25.
I think he counted. I think it was 24. I couldn't take anymore.
And with all the strength that I had I pulled out my head and fell on my back.
On my behind and on my back. That is how I fell.
And then he kicked me once with his foot, with the military shoes.
Then I couldn't breath. A long...that is how I breathed. I couldn't...
Then it was the second one's turn, my friend...also 25.
And that was all from...uh...there were many things that I can't remember and uh...
I have another...there was an attack on the ship L'Achille, the French uh Italian ship...terrorists.
There were German tourists and a Jewish T...an American...Jewish...Jew from America. And...
Excuse me...The ktichen was German. Later It...was on television...they showed what had happened.
He said: "I was with the tourists for 24 hours on the ship. But I will never forget it.
My whole life I will think of these 24 hours."
Back then I thought: "You had 24 hours like that. I had 2,000 hours like that. 2,000 hours."
And the whole time we were....we were...we lived in the minutes...in the now.
What happens after two minutes, none of us knew.
And we stayed alive because of it, because we were lucky. Not because I did anything or my head.
That's how it was. They sent me there, I was...I did it and now it's over.
IV: May I ask you something?
SB: Yes.