1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:06,999
IV:...about how you got caught up in the killing machinery of the Nazis. 

2
00:00:07,000 --> 00:00:07,599
LH: Well, yes. 

3
00:00:07,600 --> 00:00:09,666
IV: How it began, basically. 

4
00:00:09,667 --> 00:00:11,666
LH: It was really quite simple. 

5
00:00:11,667 --> 00:00:15,666
The transports began in 1941. 

6
00:00:15,667 --> 00:00:18,999
My brother lived at the time in Brünn...

7
00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:25,499
I was born in Zwittau. That was part of Brünn at that time...in what was then Moravia. 

8
00:00:25,500 --> 00:00:36,366
And my father had to leave the Sudeten territory...by 1938 they had moved inside country and lived in Boskowitz. 

9
00:00:36,367 --> 00:00:40,166
That also belonged to Brünn. 

10
00:00:40,167 --> 00:00:46,166
And by October 1941 they were already in Theresienstadt.

11
00:00:46,167 --> 00:00:52,499
And they were allowed to write twice a year and I received a correspondence card. 

12
00:00:52,500 --> 00:01:00,332
where my father wrote from Theresienstadt that he was healthy and that I shouldn't worry and...they weren't allowed to write anything else. 

13
00:01:00,333 --> 00:01:05,332
Otherwise the censor would not have let it pass. 

14
00:01:05,333 --> 00:01:09,999
But I saw that it was not my father's handwriting. 

15
00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:15,366
And the return address was "Sick room Hohenelber barracks"

16
00:01:15,367 --> 00:01:35,999
And then I knew for sure that things were not okay because my father had [attended]...how was it called...Economic Academy and had a very nice handwriting for that time. 

17
00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:42,466
Many children then had not gone to school so he was very well educated for that time. 

18
00:01:42,467 --> 00:01:47,332
And when I saw this handwriting, I said: "That is written very poorly." 

19
00:01:47,333 --> 00:01:59,832
And one day I received a summons delivered by the Prague Religious Community and I said: "Yes, thank god." 

20
00:01:59,833 --> 00:02:03,999
My brother was already there with his family, maybe I can help my father too.  

21
00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:05,499
I was young. 

22
00:02:05,500 --> 00:02:08,466
Of course I imagined it there very differently. 

23
00:02:08,467 --> 00:02:12,599
Or I couldn't really imagine was was really going on there and...

24
00:02:12,600 --> 00:02:16,732
And so we arrived in Theresienstadt.

25
00:02:16,733 --> 00:02:23,232
For three days we were at the collection site in Prague, where the Parkhotel is today.

26
00:02:23,233 --> 00:02:27,166
Yes, and when we arrived...were were not allowed...it was a huge cellar room. 

27
00:02:27,167 --> 00:02:29,999
Back then they called it "Schleuse".

28
00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:38,499
But we had no idea, it was one of the first transports in April...'42. 

29
00:02:38,500 --> 00:02:48,499
And although it was forbidden, I went in front of the door and someone came by and I said: "Can you tell me where the "Hohenelber Barracks" are?

30
00:02:48,500 --> 00:02:52,666
And he looked at me with surprise and said "You are in the Hohenelber Barracks".

31
00:02:52,667 --> 00:02:57,332
So I said...I said: "I just arrived. I didn't know that. Thank you." 

32
00:02:57,333 --> 00:03:01,332
And there...the way barracks are in a square, right?

33
00:03:01,333 --> 00:03:04,999
So I...then he added: "You have to ask there where the sick room ist." 

34
00:03:05,000 --> 00:03:11,666
And somehow I found my way there to the sick room and knocked. 

35
00:03:11,667 --> 00:03:17,666
And a nurse answered...and I introduced myself and she looked at me astonished and said: 

36
00:03:17,667 --> 00:03:24,499
"Yes, I have to give you the said news. Your father was deported on the transport early this morning."

37
00:03:24,500 --> 00:03:33,999
He had a 42 degree fever and a severe pneumonia. He can't possibly survive a transport. 

38
00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:37,666
That was my welcome in Theresienstadt. 

39
00:03:37,667 --> 00:03:42,332
And since I didn't have a mother, we didn't have a mother...I still had a brother.

40
00:03:42,333 --> 00:03:45,499
He was a dentist. 

41
00:03:45,500 --> 00:03:51,332
And I was simply...my world caved in. 

42
00:03:51,333 --> 00:03:55,432
And I went back to the "Schleuse".

43
00:03:55,433 --> 00:04:01,732
And I had...there was nothing there, just concrete and I laid down on my rucksack. 

44
00:04:01,733 --> 00:04:04,999
They had taken the rest of our luggage away from us. 

45
00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:09,999
And I pulled my coat over my head and cried bitterly. 

46
00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:14,999
It was really so terrible because, as I said, my father was everything to me. 

47
00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:34,032
We had a very, very close, unusually close relationship wo our father, he was really fantastic and everything that I became, as a person, I got simply everything from my father, our father gave us everything.

48
00:04:34,033 --> 00:04:48,999
And suddenly there was a huge ruckus in the room and I was lying under my coat with my rucksack under my head and I didn't move. 

49
00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:50,999
I wasn't interested in anything. 

50
00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:54,332
I was just...everything was gone.

51
00:04:54,333 --> 00:04:57,499
And then, suddenly, it was very quiet. 

52
00:04:57,500 --> 00:05:02,999
And I heard this and was startled and crawled out from under the coat.  

53
00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:06,732
And a very small strip lay on my coat. 

54
00:05:06,733 --> 00:05:09,999
With my name and another number. 

55
00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:15,499
And this huge room, the cellar room, was basically empty. 

56
00:05:15,500 --> 00:05:22,999
In the other corner of the room... and the other end of the room there were maybe four or five people. 

57
00:05:23,000 --> 00:05:30,166
And I had a huge shock and stood up and walked over to the people and said: "Where is everybody?"

58
00:05:30,167 --> 00:05:35,999
And they said: "We don't know. They were called out, pushed out."

59
00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:39,999
And I didn't...they probably thought I was dead.

60
00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:44,999
I hadn't moved and it was just a heap there. A ball. 

61
00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:48,432
Because my huge rucksack was...also under my head. 

62
00:05:48,433 --> 00:05:51,966
And I simply hadn't reacted and they just left me lying there. 

63
00:05:51,967 --> 00:05:53,599
And that saved my life. 

64
00:05:53,600 --> 00:05:54,166
So I went...

65
00:05:54,167 --> 00:05:55,732
IV: You had the slip so to speak...

66
00:05:55,733 --> 00:06:01,332
LH: And these four people who were there, like me, I asked them: "And why did you remain here?"

67
00:06:01,333 --> 00:06:05,332
And they said: "Yes, we have our sons AK."

68
00:06:05,333 --> 00:06:08,832
You know what that was: Set-up commando.

69
00:06:08,833 --> 00:06:23,166
And these young people, who had allready come to Theresienstadt in 1941, they were promised that for preparing the arrival of so many people...with bunkbeds and everything. 

70
00:06:23,167 --> 00:06:27,332
And my brother was also there from Brünn.

71
00:06:27,333 --> 00:06:37,499
And they had been promised and lied to as always that their parents wouldn't be sent after them. 

72
00:06:37,500 --> 00:06:39,999
A promise that they didn't keep of course. 

73
00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:47,766
When the ghetto was ready...they also sent these families there. 

74
00:06:47,767 --> 00:06:55,499
So much in Theresienstadt was "arranged" in that way. 

75
00:06:55,500 --> 00:07:04,499
The people who knew someone close to the file cards or on the committee...

76
00:07:04,500 --> 00:07:08,732
The number always had to be right. 

77
00:07:08,733 --> 00:07:16,332
If they said, 1,000 people, 500 women, 500 men, then 1,000 people had to be there. 

78
00:07:16,333 --> 00:07:28,166
And that's how it happened, that at the last minute someone was reclaimed and then my father...an old man, deadly ill, they pulled him out of bed. 

79
00:07:28,167 --> 00:07:34,499
And so I never saw my father again. 

80
00:07:34,500 --> 00:07:42,999
And now I was very frightened because my brother already had his own family...he was married, had a 3 1/2 year old son with him

81
00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:45,432
That means he couldn't protect me anymore. 

82
00:07:45,433 --> 00:07:48,599
He had to protect his family. Understandably. 

83
00:07:48,600 --> 00:07:51,999
And he didn't even know that I was already in Theresienstadt. 

84
00:07:52,000 --> 00:07:56,999
So then I just said, surrender to my fate.

85
00:07:57,000 --> 00:07:59,432
Just have to wait and see what happens. 

86
00:07:59,433 --> 00:08:08,999
And then the door opened and a large slender man entered with a black cap with yellow stripes.

87
00:08:09,000 --> 00:08:12,666
A little like the French police. 

88
00:08:12,667 --> 00:08:19,232
And, and he came over to me and said: "How did you get here?"

89
00:08:19,233 --> 00:08:20,999
I didn't recognize him. 

90
00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:24,532
He was a vague acquaintance.

91
00:08:24,533 --> 00:08:31,999
He worked with a boss, at a laundry business in Prague, a small laundry business.

92
00:08:32,000 --> 00:08:40,999
And he was Hungarian and the Hungarians were known for corsets.  

93
00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:43,999
And he was a cutter there. 

94
00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:51,999
And my girlfriend worked there... for this family as a caretaker for the boys. 

95
00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:57,799
And the lady often invited me over to her employees.

96
00:08:57,800 --> 00:09:07,666
And one time I went to the Fischers and she said: "What are you going to talk about with an old lady. I'll bring you a young man." 

97
00:09:07,667 --> 00:09:14,832
And she went into the workshop and brought with her this young man and offered him a tea and so. 

98
00:09:14,833 --> 00:09:19,999
And so I had met him twice briefly...but I didn't recognize him with this... {points to her head}

99
00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:24,332
Then he said: "Yes, we" ...I said..."I didn't recognize you."

100
00:09:24,333 --> 00:09:27,332
He said: "I am with the ghetto police and..."

101
00:09:27,333 --> 00:09:35,166
And since it was April...the civilian population was still in Theresienstadt. 

102
00:09:35,167 --> 00:09:41,832
That means...we were not allowed to move around freely at all. 

103
00:09:41,833 --> 00:09:43,599
That's why there was the ghetto police. 

104
00:09:43,600 --> 00:09:48,166
Just doctors, artisans and the police were allowed to move around freely in Theresienstadt. 

105
00:09:48,167 --> 00:09:52,999
They didn't want us to have contact with the civilian population. 

106
00:09:53,000 --> 00:10:00,332
Only after they had been separated out, around late July, were we allowed onto the streets. 

107
00:10:00,333 --> 00:10:04,066
And he said: "And now, what are we going to do?"

108
00:10:04,067 --> 00:10:10,499
I said: "I don't know either but..." and I told him briefly about my father...and he told me...

109
00:10:10,500 --> 00:10:20,499
That the same train that brought us from Prague left with the next transport that my father was on. 

110
00:10:20,500 --> 00:10:23,266
And he said: "Can I help you in some way?" 

111
00:10:23,267 --> 00:10:31,466
And I said...I thought quickly and said: "Yes, you know how you could help me? My brother is in the Sudeten Barracks. 

112
00:10:31,467 --> 00:10:35,166
He works, he is allowed to work. He is a dentist. 

113
00:10:35,167 --> 00:10:40,332
If you could tell him that I am here and that..:"

114
00:10:40,333 --> 00:10:42,499
He didn't know yet that our father was gone. 

115
00:10:42,500 --> 00:10:46,999
Only four hours had passed. 

116
00:10:47,000 --> 00:10:50,332
And he did that. He went away and returned with my...

117
00:10:50,333 --> 00:10:58,999
Yes, and before he left he said: "You know, I am alone and I am AK. If you want I can put you on my file card."

118
00:10:59,000 --> 00:11:02,832
I had know idea what that meant. 

119
00:11:02,833 --> 00:11:08,332
And I said: "You are very kind...go fetch my brother if you can." 

120
00:11:08,333 --> 00:11:12,332
And he left. After a while he came back with my brother. 

121
00:11:12,333 --> 00:11:18,999
I am explaining this in such detail because it was so important to my survival. 

122
00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:28,032
And then my brother arrived and he was very upset of course that father was gone, that he hadn't learned of it, had no idea. 

123
00:11:28,033 --> 00:11:33,899
And I said to him: "What should I do? He has offered me, he can take me on."

124
00:11:33,900 --> 00:11:44,866
And my brother said: "Yes, that doesn't happen just like that. It has to be paid for with money, with gold, with cigarettes, {laughs} with Hungarian salami." 

125
00:11:44,867 --> 00:11:47,666
Of course I didn't have any of that. 

126
00:11:47,667 --> 00:11:51,999
"And moreover... you have to get married." 

127
00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:55,999
I had a dance class romance, that {laughs} was out of the question. 

128
00:11:56,000 --> 00:12:02,666
So I said: "Crazy, no." He said: yes, even if it is just a formality, otherwise it won't work." 

129
00:12:02,667 --> 00:12:04,499
I said: "No, I won't do it." 

130
00:12:04,500 --> 00:12:07,666
And then the two men spoke with each other.

131
00:12:07,667 --> 00:12:11,666
To this day I don't know what they discussed because neither survived. 

132
00:12:11,667 --> 00:12:16,999
And he put me on his file card without us getting married. 

133
00:12:17,000 --> 00:12:19,966
He really did...I can say this as an old woman. 

134
00:12:19,967 --> 00:12:24,999
He never asked anything of me, nothing at all. 

135
00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:29,166
And then I was able to settle into Theresienstadt .

136
00:12:29,167 --> 00:12:39,566
I began working with children and this allowed me to work for three-quarters of a year in Theresienstadt. 

137
00:12:39,567 --> 00:12:45,599
And then one day he came to me, about a year and a half later... 

138
00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:51,766
So it was just before I left too and so he came to me. 

139
00:12:51,767 --> 00:12:55,166
He often came by the children's home for a short visit. 

140
00:12:55,167 --> 00:13:00,566
And he said to me: "I brought a huge dowry with me and I didn't even get a kiss." {laughs}

141
00:13:00,567 --> 00:13:11,866
And so...it was, when the ghetto police was dissolved, and the civilian population was gone, he became a cook in the Dresden Barracks.

142
00:13:11,867 --> 00:13:17,232
We were in the Dresden Barracks, in the beginning with five children in a room.

143
00:13:17,233 --> 00:13:22,899
And my colleagues said: "You should go get the food. You always get more."

144
00:13:22,900 --> 00:13:28,032
Because he was at the...distribution and always gave a little more for the children. 

145
00:13:28,033 --> 00:13:33,832
But the children didn't always eat everything. In Theresienstadt we weren't hungry. 

146
00:13:33,833 --> 00:13:41,732
And one day he came to me...we had been relocated, had our own house, the L318.

147
00:13:41,733 --> 00:13:46,632
A children's home was set up, that functioned already under Fredy Hirschstein {means Fredy Hirsch}. 

148
00:13:46,633 --> 00:13:50,999
And well...

149
00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:55,999
So, like I said, I was there the whole time and there was a kind of routine...

150
00:13:56,000 --> 00:14:00,999
And then he came by one day to visit and said: "I have a big favor to ask of you." 

151
00:14:01,000 --> 00:14:05,999
In Theresienstadt everyone used the familiar "Du", that was normal. 

152
00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:09,066
Only I couldn't say "Du" to older people. 

153
00:14:09,067 --> 00:14:11,432
That is true still today. 

154
00:14:11,433 --> 00:14:17,232
And he said: "I have a big favor to ask. I just want to say it so you know.

155
00:14:17,233 --> 00:14:25,899
I met a girl, her name is Clara and we like each other very much and I can't have two women on my file card {laughs].

156
00:14:25,900 --> 00:14:29,832
So just that you know...I am going to take you off."

157
00:14:29,833 --> 00:14:36,499
I hadn't thought about that in a long time. It had been a year-and-a-half or more.

158
00:14:36,500 --> 00:14:40,332
And I said: "yes, of course" and thanked him. 

159
00:14:40,333 --> 00:14:45,066
And then he left and went back to the kitchen. 

160
00:14:45,067 --> 00:14:50,999
He was the boss in the kitchen in the Dresden Barracks. 

161
00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:56,399
And then someone stole a carton with five kilos of margarine. 

162
00:14:56,400 --> 00:15:04,332
And since he was in charge he was put on a penal transport with this girl on his file card. 

163
00:15:04,333 --> 00:15:09,066
If I had been on it, I would have been sent away.

164
00:15:09,067 --> 00:15:14,499
He didn't survive, of course, like I said, it was a penal transport. 

165
00:15:14,500 --> 00:15:24,999
And then in December '43...we were sent to Auschwitz. 

166
00:15:25,000 --> 00:15:30,499
We were there until June, early July they made an appeal. 

167
00:15:30,500 --> 00:15:39,999
That means I survived that September transport that was sent to the gas chambers in March. 

168
00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:41,999
And it was actually our turn. 

169
00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:52,166
Only they needed workers then and they made an appeal to women up to forty years old without children to register. 

170
00:15:52,167 --> 00:15:55,166
And those who had children could leave them in Auschwitz.

171
00:15:55,167 --> 00:15:59,266
And the women who stayed there would look after the children. 

172
00:15:59,267 --> 00:16:04,299
And we knew then...that that wasn't...

173
00:16:04,300 --> 00:16:04,832
IV: ..true.

174
00:16:04,833 --> 00:16:14,066
LH:...not the truth, right?  And as far as I know only one woman signed up who left her child in Auschwitz. 

175
00:16:14,067 --> 00:16:22,032
And then we were in quarantine for three days in a different camp, we were in Birkenau...B2B. 

176
00:16:22,033 --> 00:16:27,032
In the family camp, that means our heads were not shaved. 

177
00:16:27,033 --> 00:16:38,499
At the time Fredy Hirsch had gotten a block from the SS again. 

178
00:16:38,500 --> 00:16:41,999
He was from Aachen. You probably know this. 

179
00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:51,066
He was a fantastic young man who looked after the small children and teenagers the whole time. 

180
00:16:51,067 --> 00:17:06,966
And he had this German way...I don't know if it was because of this but he never showed that he was scared of the SS and he was able to get a lot out of them them, negotiate with them.  

181
00:17:06,967 --> 00:17:18,832
And so he was able to get a children's block in Auschwitz where the children had it much much easier. 

182
00:17:18,833 --> 00:17:24,166
When one sees it, it doesn't seem like much but it was a lot. 

183
00:17:24,167 --> 00:17:30,699
For example he arranged it that the children didn't have to stand outside for hours for roll call. 

184
00:17:30,700 --> 00:17:39,332
Instead when the SS came to do their count, we lined up the children in the block. 

185
00:17:39,333 --> 00:17:49,999
And in five minutes they had been counted and could continue playing or singing or I don't remember what we did with them then. 

186
00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:59,132
That was a huge advantage for the children, but also for us, not to have to stand outside in the sun and in the frost. 

187
00:17:59,133 --> 00:18:02,832
They got a better soup. 

188
00:18:02,833 --> 00:18:10,999
It is hard to explain because sadly, all the children were sent to the gas chambers too. 

189
00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:17,999
And still, beforehand they had been given a small advantage. 

190
00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:22,366
And for me, still today for me...I can't see the logic in it. 

191
00:18:22,367 --> 00:18:31,666
And a few small...especially that the children were not with their mothers in the huge blocks

192
00:18:31,667 --> 00:18:45,632
where the old, sick and dying people who did not smell good anymore...who were no longer interested in life, who had simply...given up. 

193
00:18:45,633 --> 00:18:50,832
They knew...and I think that was very important...

194
00:18:50,833 --> 00:18:55,832
I know a few...I am the oldest now {laughs}.

195
00:18:55,833 --> 00:19:11,266
And they still remember that the children were really with children and that we did everything in our power, which we were not really aware of at the time. 

196
00:19:11,267 --> 00:19:14,966
That we gave the children so much. 

197
00:19:14,967 --> 00:19:23,999
And that because of that they didn't have to see the huge misery, didn't have to carry that with them in life. 

198
00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:32,999
And those who survived, those who were 12-14 years old. 

199
00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:37,466
They remember it very well. 

200
00:19:37,467 --> 00:19:51,532
Some even had nice memories of the youth home because a lot of young people went there and performed or recited something and ...

201
00:19:51,533 --> 00:20:02,132
And now, many years later, we too know that we actually achieved nearly the impossible. 

202
00:20:02,133 --> 00:20:05,999
Because we didn't have any material -- that shouldn't be overlooked. 

203
00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:10,899
And keeping the children occupied the whole day without anything. 

204
00:20:10,900 --> 00:20:15,099
Without a pencil or a sheet of paper or anything. 

205
00:20:15,100 --> 00:20:20,466
I don't know how we...we had to just think up things.

206
00:20:20,467 --> 00:20:22,499
IV: And you were in this children's block because before you had worked...

207
00:20:22,500 --> 00:20:22,999
LH: I...

208
00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:25,166
IV: ...in the children's home in Theresienstadt?

209
00:20:25,167 --> 00:20:31,399
LH: Yes, but I had the training, you see, that is why Fredy Hirsch...me so very much with both hands...

210
00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:38,666
We knew each other from Hagibor from Prague because we weren't allowed to go into any parks anymore with the children. 

211
00:20:38,667 --> 00:20:43,332
And they were in private families, but unfortunately many of them emigrated. 

212
00:20:43,333 --> 00:20:46,332
That meant I had to change my work place often. 

213
00:20:46,333 --> 00:20:50,666
I...wasn't allowed to work in the public sector anymore, I was at a Montessori School. 

214
00:20:50,667 --> 00:20:51,266
IV: Mhm.

215
00:20:51,267 --> 00:21:01,332
LH: That meant I had my diploma and was basically the only one with professional training, because I was older than the others back then {laughs}.

216
00:21:01,333 --> 00:21:04,332
They were all students. 

217
00:21:04,333 --> 00:21:12,499
And that is why I had the good fortune of being able to work with the children. 

218
00:21:12,500 --> 00:21:21,999
And when this offer came, that we should sign up for work, I registered. 

219
00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:32,699
And was selected by Mr. Mengele...I don't like to say Dr. Mengele because I don't think he deserves the title. 

220
00:21:32,700 --> 00:21:45,299
and for three days was put in... how is it called...isolation. 

221
00:21:45,300 --> 00:21:46,266
IV: Quarantine. 

222
00:21:46,267 --> 00:21:53,666
LH: Right, in a quarantine and then we were put on a train and of course had no idea where we were going. 

223
00:21:53,667 --> 00:21:59,999
And the train stood still for a long time and someone looked through the crack and said: 

224
00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:06,166
"Oh, we might be in Hamburg or near Hamburg. Here is so much water." 

225
00:22:06,167 --> 00:22:16,332
And then it started again after...we didn't have any watches or anything, we had to go by the sun and...

226
00:22:16,333 --> 00:22:25,332
We moved on and then at some point the train stopped and we were pushed out. 

227
00:22:25,333 --> 00:22:31,566
And we were in the middle of the woods on a false track.

228
00:22:31,567 --> 00:22:40,332
And were pushed through the woods and came to a concealed camp and were in Christianstadt.  

229
00:22:40,333 --> 00:22:44,666
We didn't know that though, we had no idea where we were. 

230
00:22:44,667 --> 00:22:50,332
And the next day the SS women divided us into groups. 

231
00:22:50,333 --> 00:23:01,999
And sent us to work and there were different work groups that worked in construction, in the quarry, in the woods, in the munitions factory. I was in the munitions factory. 

232
00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:07,332
And we were there for half a year and the camp was suddenly closed down in January. 

233
00:23:07,333 --> 00:23:12,566
We had to clear out the camp and bring the things from the camp to the train station. 

234
00:23:12,567 --> 00:23:15,999
And we said: "Oh, something is going on." 

235
00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:27,832
And later we even heard the canons, but we women couldn't tell how far away the front was from...how advanced it was. 

236
00:23:27,833 --> 00:23:35,999
We heard the noise, but didn't know if it was 100 or 200 kilometers away, how far one can hear. 

237
00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:42,266
And then we were called up, "line up and go." 

238
00:23:42,267 --> 00:23:46,999
The camp in Christianstadt was evacuated and we started off on the death march. 

239
00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:54,999
And we went the whole way from there up to, close to Dresden. 

240
00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:59,666
We were not...the Germans didn't even want to let us into a barn. 

241
00:23:59,667 --> 00:24:02,532
We always slept in some barn somewhere. 

242
00:24:02,533 --> 00:24:02,899
IV: {clears throat}

243
00:24:02,900 --> 00:24:04,399
LH:...or on a hayloft. 

244
00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:07,766
And many ran away, including us. 

245
00:24:07,767 --> 00:24:17,999
And three times the S...the Hitler Youth caught us but that actually saved our lives because it caused us to be 14 days late. 

246
00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:29,099
That is why I was on the list with lots of Hungarian and Polish women because they always waited for other death marches to arrive and then they lined us up there. 

247
00:24:29,100 --> 00:24:32,832
And that is how we came to Flossenbürg. 

248
00:24:32,833 --> 00:24:35,999
And I don't remember how long were were here. 

249
00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:46,999
We were so exhausted and starving and, and death...we didn't know know at all who we were because you are just a machine by then. 

250
00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:51,099
Always just: "Go, go, go" and "move it" and...

251
00:24:51,100 --> 00:25:06,399
I have forgotten to mention something rather important, how we came from Theresienstadt to Auschwitz and were pulled out of the train car and floodlights and dogs and, and the usual. 

252
00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:14,566
And there were Poles in striped suits and they just took us...I was pretty young and just jumped down. 

253
00:25:14,567 --> 00:25:17,999
And I did so {shrugs shoulders] to him. "What's going on?"

254
00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:20,499
He answered like this {draws a line along her throat with the side of her hand}, 

255
00:25:20,500 --> 00:25:24,299
I thought he was dumb. 

256
00:25:24,300 --> 00:25:26,199
Later I understood. 

257
00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:28,932
This single gesture. 

258
00:25:28,933 --> 00:25:34,166
That was the welcome in Auschwitz but then we didn't even know that we were in Auschwitz. 

259
00:25:34,167 --> 00:25:39,566
IV: Mhm, despite the time in Theresienstadt, you still had no idea what might be awaiting...

260
00:25:39,567 --> 00:25:39,666
LH: No. 

261
00:25:39,667 --> 00:25:40,499
IV: ..you.

262
00:25:40,500 --> 00:25:55,166
LH: That is so unlikely and incomprehensible, but before  I got to Auschwitz in December 1943, no one...they always just said: "to the east." 

263
00:25:55,167 --> 00:26:03,332
Really no one in Theresienstadt knew where it was going or that the gas chambers existed. 

264
00:26:03,333 --> 00:26:07,499
And we went into the showers without...without any idea. 

265
00:26:07,500 --> 00:26:17,999
We only had the slight sense that something somewhere was happening.

266
00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:27,332
Because when we were in Theresienstadt, one day five or six children arrived.  

267
00:26:27,333 --> 00:26:34,266
Incredibly neglected, dirty, starving, infested with lice, terrible. 

268
00:26:34,267 --> 00:26:42,832
And they were sent right to the disinfection and showered and everything had to be burned. 

269
00:26:42,833 --> 00:26:45,832
And they didn't want to go to the showers. 

270
00:26:45,833 --> 00:26:49,332
They were screaming: "gas gas gas gas!" 

271
00:26:49,333 --> 00:26:51,499
And nobody knew why. 

272
00:26:51,500 --> 00:26:53,332
Later we understood.

273
00:26:53,333 --> 00:27:09,499
They must have been somewhere in Poland and were probably already without their parents and so when they had to be cleaned and showered in Theresienstadt, they resisted and screamed. 

274
00:27:09,500 --> 00:27:17,999
But they were monitored so that no one came into contact with the children and they were sent away again. 

275
00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:29,999
They were only in Theresienstadt for two or three days and heavily guarded and given new clothes and cleaned and deloused and were sent away again. 

276
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:33,666
And how we just went innocently to the showers. 

277
00:27:33,667 --> 00:27:42,799
Only later did we realize that..bit by bit from the showers everything was taken away from us, 

278
00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:46,666
And the number tatooed right way, the women did that. 

279
00:27:46,667 --> 00:27:48,999
IV: Mhm.

280
00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:56,299
LH: And then, like I said, after the death march we ended up here in Flossenbürg. 

281
00:27:56,300 --> 00:27:56,999
IV: And did you...

282
00:27:57,000 --> 00:28:02,999
LH: And I don't know, I requested that someone look into it.

283
00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:07,799
Because, as I said, we were so exhausted, that I don't know...

284
00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:13,666
I had the sense that we were here for three days but evidently we were here for twelve or fourteen days.

285
00:28:13,667 --> 00:28:14,666
I don't know anymore. 

286
00:28:14,667 --> 00:28:22,566
We were so happy that we...for the first time in weeks we were given something warm to eat. 

287
00:28:22,567 --> 00:28:25,799
The bowls, I can see them like it was today, the white bowls. 

288
00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:29,332
For a long time we had only those dirty bowls. 

289
00:28:29,333 --> 00:28:34,332
That we couldn't wash, everywhere was cold water. 

290
00:28:34,333 --> 00:28:44,432
Yes, and, and we went from here to ...when we arrived, there was an old man, Volksturm, from Swabia. 

291
00:28:44,433 --> 00:28:51,832
And I heard that in Flossenbürg when they asked how many we were...

292
00:28:51,833 --> 00:28:56,366
He just scratched his head and said "I used to have 500". 

293
00:28:56,367 --> 00:29:02,166
And there were many...who got left behind on the side of the road, many fled. 

294
00:29:02,167 --> 00:29:07,099
And those who fled alone, most of them made it. 

295
00:29:07,100 --> 00:29:12,032
But we were this group, who had been with the children, we didn't want to separate. 

296
00:29:12,033 --> 00:29:18,799
We four women simply wanted..they were sisters plus another woman, who now lives in England. 

297
00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:27,999
And we simply wanted...we were together the entire time and simply wanted to help each other and not leave each other. 

298
00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:36,832
And we, all four, survived, as I said, with interruptions, because the Hitler Youth repeatedly held us. 

299
00:29:36,833 --> 00:29:44,666
But we had...I think it was in Weisswasser, I don't remember exactly, perhaps you know it better. 

300
00:29:44,667 --> 00:29:56,966
There was a glass factory there, they made cylinders for petroleum lamps, glass...glass cylinders. 

301
00:29:56,967 --> 00:30:07,066
And there was a man who saw us flee and hide. 

302
00:30:07,067 --> 00:30:11,666
We stayed behind a...at the edge of a forest and...

303
00:30:11,667 --> 00:30:21,666
He spoke to us and said: "So, what to do." We told him that we had fled...and he said: "Girls, girls come quickly, quckly. So that no one sees us!"

304
00:30:21,667 --> 00:30:33,666
And he brought us to this...I don't know if he was a night watchman or porter, but he had access into the area. 

305
00:30:33,667 --> 00:30:42,999
He put us in the washroom, which was the most sensible thing he could do. 

306
00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:52,999
He filled a wash kettle with water, put fire under it, it was one of those laundry rooms, they didn't have washing machines back then. 

307
00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:58,166
And he said: "So now I am going to leave and when I return...

308
00:30:58,167 --> 00:31:05,499
And he brought us towels and said: "Girls, wash yourselves." 

309
00:31:05,500 --> 00:31:10,866
It had been weeks since we had been able to wash ourselves. 

310
00:31:10,867 --> 00:31:13,999
And now even with warm water, so...

311
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:20,999
And then he returned with two women carrying a huge stew pan on a rod. 

312
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:24,832
And through the, the, the...

313
00:31:24,833 --> 00:31:25,166
IV: Grip..

314
00:31:25,167 --> 00:31:32,666
LH: A stick through the handles and that is how they brought this huge pot of potato soup. 

315
00:31:32,667 --> 00:31:35,899
I'll never forget it...What this man took upon himself to do. 

316
00:31:35,900 --> 00:31:40,332
And then he let us sleep overnight in the storage room. 

317
00:31:40,333 --> 00:31:45,332
We were able to wash ourselves, were given something to eat and early in the morning he came and said...

318
00:31:45,333 --> 00:31:48,499
And back then it was still wood shavings. 

319
00:31:48,500 --> 00:31:59,999
And these cylinders were packed in wood shavings and there were these slats, they weren't really crates, just slats...and the wood shavings came out everywhere. 

320
00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:08,499
And he said: "Yes, go climb up there so that if something happens, then you are up there and stay very quiet." 

321
00:32:08,500 --> 00:32:15,332
And I kept moving like this [jumps lightly with her upper body] and was so happy to hear the cylinders cracking underneath {laughs}.

322
00:32:15,333 --> 00:32:18,166
They were for export, right?

323
00:32:18,167 --> 00:32:24,999
And it cracked and I said: "Oh that is good! They will send this away and everything will arrive totally broken...{laughs}"

324
00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:28,166
That was a kind of resistance, you know?

325
00:32:28,167 --> 00:32:28,999
IV: Sabotage.

326
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:31,432
LH: Yes. 

327
00:32:31,433 --> 00:32:33,999
But I should add. 

328
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:37,166
After the war I never really...

329
00:32:37,167 --> 00:32:41,932
I don't have to say it...I don't feel any hate, any desire for revenge. 

330
00:32:41,933 --> 00:32:50,999
That just isn't my... I can't do anything more today, even right after the liberation I couldn't do anything. 

331
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:59,999
I am somehow grateful that I, albeit badly at the end...we were sent to Bergen-Belsen. 

332
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:04,966
That was the next extermination camp. And there...

333
00:33:04,967 --> 00:33:06,499
Yes, I haven't told that.

334
00:33:06,500 --> 00:33:14,666
How the train stood still for so long and then started to move and we came to the disguised camp. 

335
00:33:14,667 --> 00:33:19,666
And that is when we realized that half the train had been unhitched.

336
00:33:19,667 --> 00:33:22,666
And we were not all there. 

337
00:33:22,667 --> 00:33:27,600
And as we came to Bergen-Belsen.