1
00:00:00,033 --> 00:00:11,232
LW: About the possibility for German soldiers to say "no" to participating in the murder and execution of people.  

2
00:00:11,233 --> 00:00:13,999
And I said that wasn't that dangerous. 

3
00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:17,832
In the worst case, one was sent to the front. 

4
00:00:17,833 --> 00:00:26,066
But as far as I know, no one was put up against a wall when he said he didn't want to hang or shoot someone. 

5
00:00:26,067 --> 00:00:37,199
So participating was not absolutely necessary back then. One could..

6
00:00:37,200 --> 00:00:40,999
But on the whole they were in agreement with it. 

7
00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:43,832
IV: There were enough people who volunteered. 

8
00:00:43,833 --> 00:01:00,166
LW: Since if someone was already that far that they didn't see or view the person across from them as worthy...as a full-fledged human, then it is not hard for them to kill this person. 

9
00:01:00,167 --> 00:01:10,466
One has to have reached this mental level that they see this living being, who looks like a human, as a non-human. 

10
00:01:10,467 --> 00:01:17,932
IV: I would to come back to...I asked about how it felt, after the liberation. 

11
00:01:17,933 --> 00:01:21,232
And you said the first feeling was not revenge. 

12
00:01:21,233 --> 00:01:26,266
Did you suddenly have this feeling like: Now I made it. I survived. 

13
00:01:26,267 --> 00:01:31,066
Or an idea of how things should continue from there in this total chaos. 

14
00:01:31,067 --> 00:01:33,666
Do you remember this mental state?

15
00:01:33,667 --> 00:01:50,032
LV: When I look back today, I know that I had a huge desire to live, felt joy that I was alive and could see the sun shining, it was springtime. 

16
00:01:50,033 --> 00:01:56,532
But no reflection, no deliberation.

17
00:01:56,533 --> 00:02:03,432
My brain was not restored to health yet or had not yet awoken so that I...

18
00:02:03,433 --> 00:02:19,266
I think I fell back into a state, like a small child that cannot form thoughts about the past or the future, who lives in the present.

19
00:02:19,267 --> 00:02:24,966
And right after the liberation I lived in the present, I am. 

20
00:02:24,967 --> 00:02:36,332
Without any thoughts, as I said, I didn't speak to anyone, I didn't have many thoughts. 

21
00:02:36,333 --> 00:02:44,899
An example: I cannot remember thinking about my mother, my sisters, what happened to them. 

22
00:02:44,900 --> 00:02:53,799
And immediately following the liberation, I didn't have any memories of asking myself where they are, what happened to them. I just <i>was</i>.

23
00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:57,966
The feeling of simply being, biologically. 

24
00:02:57,967 --> 00:03:10,432
And probably a growing joy to experience life, purely physically. 

25
00:03:10,433 --> 00:03:24,699
And as for high-level thought processes, brain activity there, I don't know how it was for others, but I can only describe it so, that I had not reached that point yet. 

26
00:03:24,700 --> 00:03:32,666
That requres a longer period of recuperation, physically, to bring the psyche back to life. 

27
00:03:32,667 --> 00:03:39,466
IV: Most people say that life before the liberation, everyday was overshadowed by fear.

28
00:03:39,467 --> 00:03:45,866
Also the fear of not living, fear of not making it, fear of punishment, violence. 

29
00:03:45,867 --> 00:03:52,366
Was the liberation also a way of letting go or that something that fell away or...

30
00:03:52,367 --> 00:03:56,066
LW: I can't recall that I felt fear. 

31
00:03:56,067 --> 00:04:11,366
I was so dulled, so robbed of energy, so helpless and weak that I didn't have the strength to feel fear. 

32
00:04:11,367 --> 00:04:25,766
We saw it daily, death was so close, very close, as with the example in Flossenbürg where I woke up next to the corpse. 

33
00:04:25,767 --> 00:04:38,132
But I have hardly any memories of that upsetting me, of any feeling of emotion.  

34
00:04:38,133 --> 00:04:44,699
We were indifferent, we were... I was indifferent, I don't want to speak for others. 

35
00:04:44,700 --> 00:04:51,999
And basically in capable of expressing any feeling. Including fear or dread.

36
00:04:52,000 --> 00:05:02,466
When they said: "go over there...to the gallows," I would have barely reacted, I think. 

37
00:05:02,467 --> 00:05:17,332
That shows how far a person come, through chronic, permanent, years of hunger, where the body is so weak and through the effect of shock from what i had experienced.

38
00:05:17,333 --> 00:05:48,766
this transition from a terrible time in the ghetto with hunger, hard work but at least I was with a mother and sister, in one room with nine other people, who were perhaps a fifth of the dining room, but we were together,to go from that to total anonymity, to being a nobody in the camp. 

39
00:05:48,767 --> 00:05:58,499
This shock stayed with me the entire time and that is why I am sometimes amazed at how much others can remember. 

40
00:05:58,500 --> 00:06:08,932
Especially those who were only a few years older. They retained the ability to perceive, to partake. I insulated myself. 

41
00:06:08,933 --> 00:06:28,599
And that is why I regret that I cannot explain drastic things...but I can only report honestly and sincerely about what I really uncontrovertibly remember.

42
00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:37,499
And I spoke to Mr Imre Kertész when he received the Nobel Prize in Stockholm.

43
00:06:37,500 --> 00:06:45,366
Two years younger than me and brought to Auschwitz-Birkenau in '44.

44
00:06:45,367 --> 00:06:53,332
His description of arriving in Birkenau, totally different from mine, although he went through the same procedure. 

45
00:06:53,333 --> 00:07:10,132
He came from an almost normal life, since the Jews in Hungary, the real persecution didn't start until '44, they had a difficult time before then but not harder, not worse than the general population. 

46
00:07:10,133 --> 00:07:22,732
He arrived having maintained his full physical and mental strength, it was perhaps a shock for him too. 

47
00:07:22,733 --> 00:07:30,232
But he still had the ability to have contact, went right to the older ones, they took him in. 

48
00:07:30,233 --> 00:07:40,232
He was healthy, physically normal, not like me who had been in the ghetto and starved for almost four and a half, five years. 

49
00:07:40,233 --> 00:07:53,866
So his ability to take things in, to perceive and the capacity to keep this and the special skill as a writer to recount it, that is something else altogether. 

50
00:07:53,867 --> 00:07:56,099
But that was the major difference. 

51
00:07:56,100 --> 00:08:07,566
That also shows how differently people reacted, depending on their physical condition that had an effect on the psyche. 

52
00:08:07,567 --> 00:08:11,999
IV: Good, then I suggest that we take a short break to drink something. 

53
00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:15,432
LW: We had similar stories after the war. 

54
00:08:15,433 --> 00:08:28,332
Afterwards I said to him "You know what? I could be that I didn't apply my hemisphere, my brain, to thinking. 

55
00:08:28,333 --> 00:08:38,966
That was an ability then...it was so empty that I could fill it right up with knowledge, learning, research."

56
00:08:38,967 --> 00:08:48,832
I had, and that's another point, six years of grammar school, until '39, I started studying medicine in '46 in Göttingen. 

57
00:08:48,833 --> 00:08:51,332
IV: I did wonder how that was possible. 

58
00:08:51,333 --> 00:08:53,299
LW: I did it. 

59
00:08:53,300 --> 00:09:00,332
So I said to him, probably that child was just so empty from all that slag. 

60
00:09:00,333 --> 00:09:05,166
And able to absorb like a sponge that... he had something similar. 

61
00:09:05,167 --> 00:09:13,266
He also had only three years of grammar school, went to America, then he became a geologist (???)

62
00:09:13,267 --> 00:09:19,199
and switched to medicine, began studying medicine, became a psychiatrist, psychoanalyst. {speaks about Jack Terry}

63
00:09:19,200 --> 00:09:25,099
WIthout secondary school, Gymnasium, without anything. 

64
00:09:25,100 --> 00:09:39,066
So I say, maybe that was the key that we didn't apply it, that we were unused and more receptive than other brains. 

65
00:09:39,067 --> 00:09:44,499
IV: And you hadn't stored very much, also from these terrible things. 

66
00:09:44,500 --> 00:09:46,066
LW: there was lots of space, lots of space. 

67
00:09:46,067 --> 00:09:48,299
IV: Whereas with other people...

68
00:09:48,300 --> 00:09:50,132
LW: It was all used up. 

69
00:09:50,133 --> 00:09:53,232
IV: Yes, or it was always working, this "always thinking about it." 

70
00:09:53,233 --> 00:09:54,099
LW: Yes..

71
00:09:54,100 --> 00:09:57,299
IV: on the terror or...would you like to stand up for a moment?

72
00:09:57,300 --> 00:09:58,932
LW: I got a small cramp. 

73
00:09:58,933 --> 00:10:00,066
IV: Careful, just a moment. 

74
00:10:00,067 --> 00:10:06,932
I would say, now, chronologically, childhood and youth in Lodz, if you would talk a bit about that...

75
00:10:06,933 --> 00:10:15,599
LW: I was born in the city of Lodz, registered on January 1, 1926. 

76
00:10:15,600 --> 00:10:22,766
That means I am now in the middle of my 84th year. 

77
00:10:22,767 --> 00:10:34,132
The first of January is the date, but I have my doubts whether that corresponds with reality. 

78
00:10:34,133 --> 00:10:46,332
I can imagine that I was born a few days earlier but in order to make me a year younger, I wasn't registered until January. 

79
00:10:46,333 --> 00:10:49,899
That is how many people thought back then. 

80
00:10:49,900 --> 00:10:56,866
A girl that is a year younger, if she is born in December, better a year later. 

81
00:10:56,867 --> 00:11:04,832
And for boys, because of military service, so that they are a little more mature and not so young. 

82
00:11:04,833 --> 00:11:15,532
In any case born in a family with four older siblings, I was the fifth child.

83
00:11:15,533 --> 00:11:35,232
My father was a textile worker, came from a small town in the triangle between Warsaw, Lublin, Radom, south, southeast of Warsaw that is where my father's family came from. 

84
00:11:35,233 --> 00:11:52,532
My mother's family came from the region around Kalisz, the oldest city in Poland, that Plinius had already described, on the way from...Mediterranean to the North. 

85
00:11:52,533 --> 00:12:06,566
My father worked in the factory, suffered an accident and lost his left arm. 

86
00:12:06,567 --> 00:12:13,666
I used to play with the prothesis, I found it under the bed, played, but never asked about my father.  

87
00:12:13,667 --> 00:12:20,399
He died when I was one and a half years old, in June 1927. 

88
00:12:20,400 --> 00:12:26,766
And the poor widow with five children, and she becomes self-employed. 

89
00:12:26,767 --> 00:12:34,499
My mother's brother, as I later learned, wanted to talk her into marrying again. 

90
00:12:34,500 --> 00:12:52,566
But she wanted to raise her children independently, took off her wig --  as an orthodox Jew, their hair is cut off when they marry and they get a wig -- got rid of it and opened a small laundry.

91
00:12:52,567 --> 00:13:02,232
We moved out of the apartment where I had been born, on the edge of the poor neighborhood in Lodz. 

92
00:13:02,233 --> 00:13:11,799
It was called Balutau, still today, the streets was Salzgasse, the Sasolna, corner of Nordstrasse. 

93
00:13:11,800 --> 00:13:16,732
Because the ghetto. the poor neighborhood was int he north of the city of Lodz. 

94
00:13:16,733 --> 00:13:24,266
We moved close to the city center, there were two rooms. That was all. 

95
00:13:24,267 --> 00:13:34,332
Entrance to the street, window display on the left, a small counter, casing  and shelves for taking in the laundry. 

96
00:13:34,333 --> 00:13:43,899
To the left of the window was a large table, for ironing the laundry and arranging it.

97
00:13:43,900 --> 00:13:55,966
Behind it, behind the shelves was another table, also for ironing and arranging the laundry and that is where my sisters slept, my four sisters. 

98
00:13:55,967 --> 00:14:01,699
Then came the next room, like the letter T, perpendicular. 

99
00:14:01,700 --> 00:14:11,999
To the right a walled in caldron, to boil the wash with a fire below, left was a kitchen cabinet. 

100
00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:23,099
Behind it two beds, my mother and I with one of my sisters there alone, with ledges added to the ceiling for hanging the wash to dry. 

101
00:14:23,100 --> 00:14:31,999
That was my mother's worksite, the business and the living space for us children. 

102
00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:37,866
No space to do tasks, homework or studying. 

103
00:14:37,867 --> 00:14:46,732
So.. childhood was spent more life in the courtyard, with the boys. 

104
00:14:46,733 --> 00:15:04,232
And since I was an enthusiastic reader since I was five, books were the only refuge and escape from these rather poor and limiting, economomically limiting existence. 

105
00:15:04,233 --> 00:15:15,499
Went to school when I was seven, I was already able to read alone and loved going to school. 

106
00:15:15,500 --> 00:15:23,732
I loved learning, I was very hungry for knowledge, also found it rather easy to grasp new things. 

107
00:15:23,733 --> 00:15:29,566
But also a little careless, didn't work that hard. 

108
00:15:29,567 --> 00:15:35,999
which often...many talented people do not work that hard. 

109
00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:40,166
When it comes together, then it is...they become geniuses.

110
00:15:40,167 --> 00:15:44,466
I didn't become a genius, but what I did have was enough. 

111
00:15:44,467 --> 00:15:54,166
There were definitely some funny situations that I was asked to read the homework, but I hadn't done any. 

112
00:15:54,167 --> 00:15:56,732
I read an essay from an empty page. 

113
00:15:56,733 --> 00:16:06,999
That was embarrassing when the teacher said " Leon, you did that so well. Now hand over the page so it can be entered into the class chronicle." 

114
00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:10,566
And then I stood there with red cheeks and the empty page.

115
00:16:10,567 --> 00:16:16,332
As punishment, ...but Mrs. Linde, that was the name of our teacher. 

116
00:16:16,333 --> 00:16:26,932
It was a Jewish school...only Jewish children and only boys, wasn't mixed with girls. 

117
00:16:26,933 --> 00:16:39,399
The first school was on Narutowiczstrasse, at the corner of Kilinskistrasse,

118
00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:44,099
Kilinski was a freedom hero, he fought in uprisings. 

119
00:16:44,100 --> 00:16:53,266
 And Narutowicz was the first president after the independence of Poland in 1918 and of Jewish origins.

120
00:16:53,267 --> 00:17:02,299
Was shot by a fascist, if one may say that, by a rightwing supporter. 

121
00:17:02,300 --> 00:17:09,899
Then we moved to the Kilinskistrasse across from the train station. 

122
00:17:09,900 --> 00:17:20,732
Factory station they call it today, across from the station which is now in the middle of Lodz today, continues to operate. 

123
00:17:20,733 --> 00:17:29,499
The area where I grew up as very poor, it was...

124
00:17:29,500 --> 00:17:40,699
I wanted to have a dog, but we never had a dog legally, instead a stray dog picked up, homeless. 

125
00:17:40,700 --> 00:17:53,799
And then he always came, those are the worst memories of my childhood, when the dogcatcher came with the sling and grabbed it and threw it behind bars in the vehicle.

126
00:17:53,800 --> 00:18:01,199
I cried terribly, I found it heartwrenching, my poor animal, took the dog away. 

127
00:18:01,200 --> 00:18:12,166
But I often sicked the dog on the building owner a short, fat Jew, he arrived and I knew my mother didn't have any money.

128
00:18:12,167 --> 00:18:18,599
 Always the 120 Złoty for the monthly rent, then I sicked the dog on him. And got slapped a few times. 

129
00:18:18,600 --> 00:18:25,032
I had a close friendship with the house caretaker, a Pole, Schitowski. 

130
00:18:25,033 --> 00:18:38,299
We shared a passion for novels in chapter segments, every week a new chapter.

131
00:18:38,300 --> 00:18:43,866
And I read, I gave it to him and he gave it to me, we exchanged them. 

132
00:18:43,867 --> 00:18:50,532
He was a terrible drinker, alcoholic, he broke his wife's arm on his knee in front of me. 

133
00:18:50,533 --> 00:18:52,599
He had gotten angry. 

134
00:18:52,600 --> 00:19:01,266
That is why I remember that when my mother complained about me, she called him to punish me. 

135
00:19:01,267 --> 00:19:16,366
But since we were close, he always treated me very very mildly and didn't hit so hard with the belt. 

136
00:19:16,367 --> 00:19:27,066
He also came to the roof when the war broke out, where I was there a kite with my two or three friends. 

137
00:19:27,067 --> 00:19:29,466
Idiots, didn't know...

138
00:19:29,467 --> 00:19:32,299
And the airplanes arrived, over our heads, towards Warsaw. 

139
00:19:32,300 --> 00:19:36,832
He grabbed us and really hit us. 

140
00:19:36,833 --> 00:19:47,066
That was better than if the defense people came ... and put you up against the wall and accused you of giving signals to the German planes.  

141
00:19:47,067 --> 00:19:53,699
School was normal. That was an oasis for me. That was normal. 

142
00:19:53,700 --> 00:19:55,532
I was among equals. 

143
00:19:55,533 --> 00:20:02,866
I liked going to school under normal conditions. 

144
00:20:02,867 --> 00:20:18,232
After the sixth grade, in June 1939, I took a few tests and qualified for the humanistic line. 

145
00:20:18,233 --> 00:20:31,199
And even got a free card, like a fellowship or exemption from fees, so that I could attend high school on September 1, 1939. 

146
00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:39,466
It was called Józef-Piłsudski-Gymnasium, after the former marshal of Poland, died in 1926.

147
00:20:39,467 --> 00:20:49,799
Or, no, he died in 1935. He came to power with a state coup in 1926, in Poland, Marshal Piłsudski.

148
00:20:49,800 --> 00:20:55,666
IV: You basically were on your way to going to Gymnasium?

149
00:20:55,667 --> 00:20:59,299
LW: Yes, but something got in the way. 

150
00:20:59,300 --> 00:21:02,599
From my childhood I can also mention...

151
00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:09,766
We were a group of boys, always running around the rooftops, territory battles with the other gangs. 

152
00:21:09,767 --> 00:21:18,232
I was like a leader, I was well-read. So Indians (???) 

153
00:21:18,233 --> 00:21:27,966
Read all the books. Played like boys play, with cowboys and indians, sheriff and bandits. 

154
00:21:27,967 --> 00:21:30,966
That was our daily life. 

155
00:21:30,967 --> 00:21:38,232
And I was like the leader, because I knew the books by heart, could recount them all. 

156
00:21:38,233 --> 00:21:42,966
There was hardly any religion at home. 

157
00:21:42,967 --> 00:21:51,666
There was no father to teach it. That had weakened. 

158
00:21:51,667 --> 00:21:58,399
Mother was so busy, intensely, to keep us alive, to make a living of sorts. 

159
00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:01,599
So it wasn't so urgent. 

160
00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:09,532
I have some photos of the Cheder, when we were in the other apartment. 

161
00:22:09,533 --> 00:22:12,532
I was around four years old. 

162
00:22:12,533 --> 00:22:19,299
I had gone to the Jewish children's school, that started with three or four years. 

163
00:22:19,300 --> 00:22:28,799
I stuck it out for a year and then when we moved I told my mother: "I don't want to continue."

164
00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:36,299
We were twenty, thirty boys sitting together, and a man with a beard stood there and mumbled something to himself. 

165
00:22:36,300 --> 00:22:39,632
We were supposed to repeat it, I don't know what it was about. 

166
00:22:39,633 --> 00:22:42,632
I don't get that. It is so dumb. 

167
00:22:42,633 --> 00:22:50,799
And then I refused to go to the Jewish school, to continue. I found it too stupid. 

168
00:22:50,800 --> 00:23:00,866
That is why I don't know anything about this praying and didn't learn about this holy ???

169
00:23:00,867 --> 00:23:04,299
Because my mother never insisted. 

170
00:23:04,300 --> 00:23:12,399
My oldest sister, six years older, she now lives in Quentin, Pennsylvania, in America, 89 years old. 

171
00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:25,066
She was six years older than me and she had to go to...at 14, after turning 14, after grammar school, had to go to work in the electricity factory. 

172
00:23:25,067 --> 00:23:32,232
And she was left, the left workers movement and she supported me.  

173
00:23:32,233 --> 00:23:40,866
And the episode with her that I remember so vividly, I was always careful to leave the house with her. 

174
00:23:40,867 --> 00:23:44,266
I went to school, she to work, we took the same route. 

175
00:23:44,267 --> 00:23:50,132
We passed the butcher, she got me a roll with ham for 50 cents. 

176
00:23:50,133 --> 00:23:53,732
And I still remember this juicy ham, wonderful taste. 

177
00:23:53,733 --> 00:23:55,299
But don't tell mother. 

178
00:23:55,300 --> 00:24:10,099
Because although we weren't religous, not practicing, but holidays, like Passover at Easter or Chanukah at Christmas, mother did that. 

179
00:24:10,100 --> 00:24:15,532
Sabbath too, on Friday, lit the candles, the movements, the light and the prayer. 

180
00:24:15,533 --> 00:24:33,966
I experienced all that and kept it, as a tradition but not out of deep belief in the Jewish faith with the Old Testament. 

181
00:24:33,967 --> 00:24:41,999
I read all that much later, also worked through and read the Koran and the New Testament.

182
00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:44,166
To learn what is actually in there. 

183
00:24:44,167 --> 00:24:50,166
I have to say, nothing positive, Lots of talk, little content, For my part...

184
00:24:50,167 --> 00:25:01,099
When you clear it away, a terrible stampede of words, which, when you analyse them, sentence for sentence, there is not much in there. 

185
00:25:01,100 --> 00:25:05,732
But that is something different. 

186
00:25:05,733 --> 00:25:13,932
Summer vacation, the last years before the war, my mother sent me to her sister, in a little town, städtl. 

187
00:25:13,933 --> 00:25:19,599
Wartha, that is in Warthega an der Warthe, on the RIver Wartha. 

188
00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:26,099
A little town, my aunt lived there, ten children. 

189
00:25:26,100 --> 00:25:46,732
And her husband, his income was, he had two horses, ...a..like a carriage, like in the wild west, ran errands for the business people at the market, made purchases. 

190
00:25:46,733 --> 00:25:56,299
Harnessed the horses, drove to Lodz, 62 kilometers, 70 kilometers, no, less, from Wartha it was 50 kilometers. 

191
00:25:56,300 --> 00:26:01,499
And he was there in five or six hours, arrived towards morning, loaded up. 

192
00:26:01,500 --> 00:26:06,332
And in the early afternoon he was back -- slept a few hours -- and then started over again. 

193
00:26:06,333 --> 00:26:12,199
I took the trip a few times, he slept, the horses went their way, they knew the way there and back. 

194
00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:14,932
IV: So it was a transport business?

195
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LW: Yes, a small one. 

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He got the carriage for that, and with the horses it was so... 

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There were five girls, five boys. 

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Two - the oldest daughter, Mina, she is 94 now, lives in Netanya in Israel. 

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The only living cousin left, on my mother's side

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Then there was Gabriel, who was short, maybe 1.50 meters, he now has four sons, who are 2 meters tall. 

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He was a horse boy and took me along, with the horses to drink at the River Wartha. 

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And one of my memories is as we were riding, without saddles of course, and Polish boys threw stones that scared the horses. 

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They went into a gallop and we held onto their manes so keep from falling and then I...

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That was the first of a few clearly ant-Jewish incidents that boys intentionally wanted to cause us, as Jewish boys, harm. 

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Except in Lodz, too, I was a huge movie fan. 

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But I didn't have any money for the admission ticket. 

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And I rarely dared to sit in the cinema on the edge of the room where more Poles were, I stayed mostly in the Jewish quarter, because I was recognized there immediately "Jew, Jew" and hit with stones to make me leave. 

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Those were the few expressions of antisemitism that I experienced personally. 

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And I figured out how to get into the cinema without money. I noticed that two adults were able to bring a child along, without a ticket. 

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So I looked at the people, I learned that if I stood in line with normal adults that they shooed me away  

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"Get out of here, what are you doing here" 

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But a young couple in love, they barely even noticed that I was standing next to them, and they hardly saw me. 

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I got in and once I was in there were two kinds of movies. 

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Film previews, intermission, people leave, people enter, and the same film again. 

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Then there were non-stop cinemas. 

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One went in, in the middle, watched it and waited for it to start over again, and then left. 

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I could sit in a non-stop cinema for five, six hours, again and again.  

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And in the cinemas that had intermissions, I hid in the restrooms. 

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When it was dark I came out again. 

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And mother always asked where were you for so many hours and your homework and those kinds of things...

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But I became a fanatic movie guy, still today. I have 3500 films at home that I recorded from television. 

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And everying in the archive, all the Bonds, all the HItchcocks, but also a few hundred about the Holocaust. Documentaries. 

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Those were the bright spots in the summer, the recreation, because eight of the ten children were in the house. 

224
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And only two rooms. 

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The first room for the parents, one entered through a small corridor, the little house was about thirty meters from the market square. 

226
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But across from a Benedictine cloister. The Benedictines. Very rich, this cloister. Klosterstrasse no. 6

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Two windows to the street, facing a bed, a closet to the right, and the entrance to the second room, a narrow kitchen, with a clay floor. 

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That was all and then the small courtyard, the stable for the horses, with huge rats.  

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And there was a small ladder, up to the attic, with only straw, no mattresses, that is where we children slept, like sardines in a can. 

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But there...I have to say that I never complained, never looked or thought, those are the rich people, they have so much and we have nothing. 

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One just accepts the now as it is and one doesn't philosophize about one's existence as a child. 

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That is just the way it was.The end. 

233
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It was bad in the winter, not having any real shoes or what was bad was when I got a new pair of trousers for Passover, at Easter. 

234
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And I got ten pennies from my mother, and I went around the corner, to a Cyclodrom, that is what it was called. 

235
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Where you could rent a bike and ride around. 

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My pants got caught in the chain and tore and were smeared with oil. 

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I was scared to go home. And late in the evening, but then my mother saw it and said that is just a small thing. 

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I should not be sad because of that and not come home with everyone looking...

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And there an example of the mental state of a child at that time. 

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I knew it was a huge expense for my mother to buy me a pair of pants. 

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IV: Excuse me, I have to interrupt. You have a spider or something in your hair. So. 

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LW: Attraction (laughs)

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IV: (coughs) Good, that was a poor --

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LW: Then.. that was that before the war

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CM: OKay.

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LW: I think we have -