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IV: Heute ist Donnerstag, der 19. Juli 2012.

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Wir sind hier in Weiden in der Oberpfalz im Hotel Admira und wir sprechen mit Abe Maisner, der in Warschau geboren wurde und jetzt in Amerika lebt.

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Telling your name, when you were born, where you've born, where you grow up, a little bit the beginning ah of your story.

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AM: Ah okay, my name is Abe Maisner, M-A-I-S-N-E-R.

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I was born in Warsaw, Poland.

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I was born {coughing} 19, March 25th, 1929 in Warsaw Poland.

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I, my mother died, when I was seven years old.

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And that was in 19 in 30ies, which I don't, hardly remember.

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I was a young kid, maybe seven years old.

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I also had a sister, which was younger.

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Her name was Lola.

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My father remarried and I guess the marriage didn't work right so, and we got separated and the war broke out right after that, 1939.

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1939 in the, the Warsaw Ghetto started in 1940.

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Life was getting very bad, starvation, hunger, ah disrespect.

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I as a child wasn't, was not happy being in the Ghetto.

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I've seen there a lot of kids running away from the Ghetto.

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And I tried to do the same thing.

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And I did and it worked.

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I went out and I brought some food into the Ghetto.

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Well I did it a couple of times.

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After that I said: "It is no way."

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My father was sick.

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He was already on the way out.

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So I was still remaining in the Ghetto until he passed away.

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And then I remained by myself.

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All my family almost gone.

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Some of them had the chance to run away.

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IV: From the Ghetto?

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AM: From, from, from Poland, altogether.

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Some of my aunts went to France, some of them went to Belgium.

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But I didn't have no interest and I didn't have their, the finances to do it.

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And besides travelling as a Jew, wasn't that easy thing, you know.

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So (???) ran out of the Ghetto and I roamed around and outside the Ghetto on the Christian side, ah just ah to, to survive, you know,

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you didn't know, if the war is gonna end tomorrow or the war is gonna end yesterday or whatever.

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Things were no good.

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Let's put it this way.

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So I had a few tough months like from the fall all away way up to part of the winter.

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Mostly the fall and maybe a couple of months like in December or January.

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And my survival was that I was, it was easy to recognize me, either by the Christians or by the Germans, the soldiers, the SS, the other one, you know.

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And so I hid myself mostly in the broken buildings.

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That were bombarded in 1939, the Germans did.

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And I survived going from door to door basically this way.

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Going in, knocking on the door, hopefully that I am a Christian, I am looking for a piece of bread or little soup.

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Some people open the door, knew what's happening already, put, stick the hand out, because it was, it was, I was, it was against the law, to give anything out.

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So some did and some just closed the door, they didn't wanted to know, because it was, as ah, if they get caught, they get fined, you know.

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So it took a while ah like that and finally it was getting cold and I wouldn't know, what to do with myself.

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I was cold, where do I go to sleep?

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So I found ways to sleep in an attic, like a four storey building there was an attic on top of it.

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So I slept there, you know a couple of nights there, a couple of nights here, in the basements.

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I tried to see, we didn't know, if tomorrow the war is over or whatever.

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Anyway, ah one day, one night, I sort of sneaked into one of the buildings and I walked up four stairs up to the attic and I went in there and supposedly the guy that the,

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the guy that ah took care of the, of the building, the caretaker, saw me going through there.

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I don't know what, how and what, but he saw me going through.

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So I guess, he followed and probably was the evening he had dinner and he got himself feeling good, he says: "Oh, I saw this guy going up there."

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So he goes into the staircase and he starts to holler up: "Hey do you Jew, come on down!"

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And I said: "Please."

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You know, talking in Polish, and he says, hollers up again to me, he says: "You better come down, because, if I come up, I'll kill you!"

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And this is already he is going to first floor, second floor and I see, he means it.

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And he is drunk.

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You know, ah drunk, those things you never know.

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So anyway he, I started to climb down little by little, but he says: "You better come down first, because when I come, I'll catch you, I'll kill you!"

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So finally, he was going down already, because he saw me coming down.

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{coughing} And I followed him.

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And as he opened the door, from the, from the entrance to, into the building, pushed me out into the street and it was curfew, eleven o'clock curfew.

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This was already after eleven o'clock and a couple ah gendarmes passed by of course speaks to me in German, I understood a little bit.

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Whatever I did, "what are you doing?"

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You know, "why are you here, why did you get out of the Ghetto?", how and what, go.

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Across the street was a bar.

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He took me by the neck, didn't hit me, brought me into the bar and I guess in the bar they made a lot of fun about me.

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You know all were laughing, girls and soldiers.

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{coughing} And they were waiting for the police to come and pick me up, take me to the police department.

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{coughing} Got me to the police department.

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I was there over night.

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Next morning they brought me to the Warsaw jail, which was the name Pawiak.

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Was one of the, the worst jails in Poland.

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And was happened to be in Warsaw.

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Over there I was, six months I was there.

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On the six month they took us, fifth or sixth month, I don't know exactly, don't remember exactly.

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And {coughing} and a whole bunch of kids, the same age, mostly that ran into the, ran out of the Ghetto, because the starvation was so bad, that there was no way of living there anymore.

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So they took us by car, by truck and they brought us into court and they stood us in front the judges, maybe four or five German judges.

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And each one is asking questions.

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They said: "Are you guilty? Did you?"

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"Yes."

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You know, I answered them in German, you know.

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So the rest of them, the all of us were already prosecuted as they say.

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They say: "You all gonna be hanged.

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You gonna go back to jail."

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Right out, they took us back to jail, each one was already in a separate cell.

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Prior to that, {coughing} there was one room, half of the size of this here and there must have been about 60 of us.

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They slept on the floor, like herrings.

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If you had to get up in the morning, you couldn't go to the toilet.

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There was a but, bucket staying in the corner and that's what's you use, that's what you use.

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They in the morning, they, {coughing} some of went and took it and emptied it.

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And once a day they used to let us out for ten minutes, walking around inside the, the Pawiak, the jail.

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{coughing} Well anyway, after that, after that being in jail already after the, what we got that, they was, they say the "Urteil" and that was what they say, you know, what I mean.

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Ah the German soldiers came in with a truck and one officer stood on top of the truck.

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They took us all out, maybe 60 of us, all kids like that.

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Young kids, thirteen, fourteen years old.

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{coughing} And we're staying outside and the officer hollers out: "Who wants to go to work?"

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And of course, the kids that didn't go to jail, didn't go the, to the judge, forget they gonna be able, relieved or released or whatever.

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I didn't have nothing to loose anymore.

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And some more like me.

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We lift our arms and good port... a good portion of us {coughing} they took us to the "Umschlagplatz", which was near Auschwitz.

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And they, meantime they picked up more.

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By time we got to Auschwitz, we had already ten or twelve car loads of people.

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And we waited to go into camp.

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We stayed there for about two or three days.

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There didn't, was no room there was, you know, they were picking them up like left and right, from the Ghettos all over the country.

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And they said, they didn't say anything.

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They just gave us another piece, another half of loaf of bread and some water.

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Went, where did we go?

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We went already, the Germans, {coughing} the Germans already start to occupy the Ukraine.

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IV: Yeah.

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AM: So they took us to the Ukraine, 1.500 of us.

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And we went to the Bobruisk, which is the Ukraine {means: Belarus}.

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So, coming there, there was nothing there, there was some old barns, old things, old broken up stuffs that the, that the Ukrains used to use it, {coughing} while they were there, you know?

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But when they took of or they were arrested or killed or whatever, we didn't know what's happened, but that's were they played us.

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{laughing} Some or another, some or another all of a sudden, there comes a, an officer and he sits us out in a circle and he says to us: "You'll have to peel potatoes for the German soldiers."

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{coughing} Some or another, there were brought up a lot of potato, pile of potatoes.

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And then as a joke, I mean, I didn't know is a joke.

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He walks around, walks around twice and he says: "Who is the youngest here?"

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Nobody answers and I am looking around myself.

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Looks like, I am looking around myself, I, I look the youngest.

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So I stood up.

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{coughing} And he says, he says me in German: "Du wirst erschossen."

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In German, you know, what I am talking?

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IV: Yes.

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AM: He says: "Go over to that tree and turn around.

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Don't face me, turn around."

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And I am going.

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I said: "What the hell is going on here?"

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Am I gonna really killed?

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Is he gonna really kill me?

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It's no, no big deal, you know?

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One less doesn't mean nothing.

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{coughing} Well, I heard him, bum.

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I fall down.

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So he walks over, cursed me out, cursed me out in German all kind of names, you know.

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I says: "I didn't do nothing, nothing to you."

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"Why do you do, what you do, what you fall down?"

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Well I heard a gun go off, so I, I fell down.

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I didn't know that {laughing} it is no joke.

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He says: "Go back to work."

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That was my first co.., concentration camp that I had to visit.

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So {coughing} and SS from then on, we were there, they brought another transport after that.

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Another 1.500 people, because they were dying from hunger, they were dying from cold, you know, winter was come, coming.

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And from then on, by 18 months being there, 41 of us left, out of 1.800.

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What did they do with us?

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Then in meantime the Russians already pushing the Germans.

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"We cannot leave these Jews here, it's no way."

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They put us in one, you call them cattle car, {coughing} put us on the rail.

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And that is all.

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Wherever we wind up, we wind up.

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They locked it and left us there and that's it.

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And the train was going back and forth and back and forth.

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We were ten days in that, in that cattle car.

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We had some food.

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I don't know, somehow, where, where it was?

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{coughing} Finally we wind up in Minsk.

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They opened the cattle cars, the, the ah, they opened the car, the car.

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They say: "There is people in there."

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And we were almost layed out, layed out, with no food, no, never, no air, no nothing.

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So finally, they took us out from there and put us in Minsk Ghetto, a Jewish ghetto there.

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{coughing} We were there two days and they liquidate that Ghetto.

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So then, we got to take us out.

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They took the, they like liquidated the Ghetto, so of course we'll, take us back into the car, into the cars.

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Where they taking us, to a concentration camp in Buchenwald {means probably Majdanek}.

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IV: Buchenwald?

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AM: {confirming} {coughing} Buchenwald was a camp, it is a death camp, you probably heard about it.

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No matter what, eventually you're gone.

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Well the guy, at the door, at the gate, on the inside yet, not outside, inside yet was a Jewish police man.

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They were helping to take care of the people.

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So one of the police men saw me and he says to me: "What are you doing here?"

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I said: "What do I do here?

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You are here, you know, what I am doing here."

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He grabs me by the back and pushes me on the side.

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"Just stay, don't move."

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Well, anyway, I stayed there.

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{coughing} Then at night, he put, he put me in into a some barracks, barracks, there were people came, brand new Germans came in.

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They brought them in.

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And it was a big barrack about twice this size and there is a lot of Germans sitting there, on the, on the, on their valises.

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Because they, you know, they came with their valises.

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You know, they Germans just look like that.

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You know, you whatever you wanna take, take with you.

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You gonna leave it anyway.

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The next day, they took all these Germans and myself and they took us to a concentration camp.

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And he says: "Now you go in and go with them.

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I don't want you to be in here, because this, you'll never get out of here."

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Which was the truth.

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So they took us to a camp, Budzyń, which was not far from there.

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And that was a camp, that were Jewish veterans from the polish army.

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Whatever they caught, they put them in there.

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{coughing} And it was a regimental, you know, what I mean, they were all soldiers, you know.

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And here we're coming in as civilians.

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My ah young, young guys like myself, elderly guys, Germans, you know.

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It was, it was already a differently, but these guys want it to be like everybody, like they are, perfect, well that's what they learn in the army and that's what they want it to be.

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From then on, I was going from one camp basically from one to the other.

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Basically altogether I must have going to seven different, eight, eight different camps until I wound up here in ah, what do you call ah?

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IV: Flossenbürg.

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AM: Flossenbürg.

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IV: Do you, do you remember some names of some of those camps where you have been?

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AM: Yes, I have, it's a, maybe I have to be sure.

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See everything was, have, fast, fast, fast.

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Because I didn't anticipate.

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Here, see that.

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Had a (???)

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IV: This is from, this is from Flossenbürg.

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AM: Yeah, oh here, you see, when I came back, right?

209
00:16:58,767 --> 00:16:59,332
IV: Mhm {confirming}.

210
00:16:59,333 --> 00:17:00,732
AM: You see, the date when I came back for it?

211
00:17:00,733 --> 00:17:05,166
IV: Ja, so it is 19th of July 1945.

212
00:17:05,167 --> 00:17:08,132
So that's when everything was finished here.

213
00:17:08,133 --> 00:17:09,666
AM: Right, exactly.

214
00:17:09,667 --> 00:17:14,566
IV: So but in before, you can remember what camp you have been to?

215
00:17:14,567 --> 00:17:16,332
AM: I have it, but I...

216
00:17:16,333 --> 00:17:21,666
IV: So if it is complicated now, you can tell me later.

217
00:17:21,667 --> 00:17:23,832
AM: I just had it here.

218
00:17:23,833 --> 00:17:29,066
I had it all here.

219
00:17:29,067 --> 00:17:39,499
See this, this is a picture, that children in the Warsaw Ghetto try to make a living.

220
00:17:39,500 --> 00:17:57,832
Ah here it is, here, Bobruisk, Minsk.

221
00:17:57,833 --> 00:18:00,999
{coughing} Then I wind out, wind up in Majdanek.

222
00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:02,766
IV: Majdanek.

223
00:18:02,767 --> 00:18:11,932
AM: Fortunate, I was fortunate that I was not in those camps where the concent.., where the gas chambers were and the crematoriums were.

224
00:18:11,933 --> 00:18:17,732
Basically I was in camps where basically you went to work.

225
00:18:17,733 --> 00:18:20,499
I was working like in Mielec camp.

226
00:18:20,500 --> 00:18:22,632
I was working as a carpenter.

227
00:18:22,633 --> 00:18:29,732
There was a father there and three sons and they taught me how to be a carpenter.

228
00:18:29,733 --> 00:18:31,799
So I helped them being a carpenter.

229
00:18:31,800 --> 00:18:38,932
So whatever I went somehow another I got into, I got into as, as a, as a helper, you know, what I mean?

230
00:18:38,933 --> 00:18:41,532
So then and then I went Budzyń.

231
00:18:41,533 --> 00:18:51,899
Then I went to Mielec, where I got this, that was Wieliczka, where the salts, salt gra..., salt ah mines...

232
00:18:51,900 --> 00:19:07,866
And from there basically, well you got the names the other names, you got all the other names, Minsk, Bobronsk, ah the jail, Mielec.

233
00:19:07,867 --> 00:19:15,499
Those were all the camps that, you could survive, if you watch yourself.

234
00:19:15,500 --> 00:19:16,666
You know, what I mean?

235
00:19:16,667 --> 00:19:20,699
You, the hunger was there, okay?

236
00:19:20,700 --> 00:19:26,632
Not, when I wound up in Flossenbürg, that was a different game.

237
00:19:26,633 --> 00:19:28,799
There was crematoriums here.

238
00:19:28,800 --> 00:19:30,966
There was different kind of people.

239
00:19:30,967 --> 00:19:37,399
Before we came into Flossenbürg, there were gypsies here, there was all kind of nationalities.

240
00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:41,299
And amongst people that were against the regime, you know?

241
00:19:41,300 --> 00:19:42,332
IV: Polits, political?

242
00:19:42,333 --> 00:19:48,932
AM: Political, right, you know, some of them had the red ah red ah red triangle.

243
00:19:48,933 --> 00:19:51,999
Some of them had a different triangle, a black triangle.

244
00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:58,066
But they were all, they were all under, not, {coughing} not, it's not a concentration camp.

245
00:19:58,067 --> 00:20:01,399
But there, they were not killing anybody, you understand?

246
00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:04,666
They were not, they were working for that, what was necessary.

247
00:20:04,667 --> 00:20:06,899
But that was normal, you know, what I mean?

248
00:20:06,900 --> 00:20:13,466
Not, when they brought us in, we were the first concentration camp people, that were sent to Flossenbürg.

249
00:20:13,467 --> 00:20:19,432
And that, that was us, it was 1.500 of us, children, grown ups, you know.

250
00:20:19,433 --> 00:20:25,399
They already start to liquidate camp, certain camps, because so they start to put them together.

251
00:20:25,400 --> 00:20:25,899
IV: Yeah.

252
00:20:25,900 --> 00:20:35,699
AM: And were like put into smaller camps like for example like I mention these here like Mielec, the one here, Wieliczka, there was, there were {coughing} certain areas, that there was too little camps.

253
00:20:35,700 --> 00:20:37,999
But they didn't build gas chambers.

254
00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:41,666
They had their main ones like Majdanek, like Auschwitz, you know?

255
00:20:41,667 --> 00:20:54,866
And from when they started towards the end, they started to put these people together from the smaller camps and brought them into the camps to get gased and everything else.

256
00:20:54,867 --> 00:21:13,099
Well, in Flossenbürg ah was this, was a story in Flossenbürg that's, it's kind of hard to express or like see it, I mean, the Kapos there, you know what I am talking about is,

257
00:21:13,100 --> 00:21:21,099
why all Kapos, all Germans that were against the regime or something else.

258
00:21:21,100 --> 00:21:26,466
And they were very strict and very antisemitic.

259
00:21:26,467 --> 00:21:47,399
So any little thing, like a, I had a friend of mine that we were, in the morning we were staying in line to get coffee and whatever else so this friend of mine was one of the first ones and I had been in charge of the, that litrine, the toilet.

260
00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:57,199
And he, he got his coffee forgetting I am the first one, I am gonna go back at the other end and I get another cup of coffee.

261
00:21:57,200 --> 00:22:04,999
Unfortunate, he came through and he, that Kapo saw him again and saw, what he did.

262
00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:08,999
He steal, that he lied to him, that he wasn't there yet, he was the first time.

263
00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:10,266
And he beat the hell out of him.

264
00:22:10,267 --> 00:22:13,132
And I mean, really beat out the hell out of him.

265
00:22:13,133 --> 00:22:16,999
And ah and everybody else went to work.

266
00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:24,632
So {coughing} when they left, I was in the ninth, in the ninth barrack which was on top of the hill.

267
00:22:24,633 --> 00:22:29,199
So he went down with them and I guess he, he remained there for quite a while.

268
00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:40,632
Meantime I took the guy and pulled him back into the toilet and I and I cleaned him up, I washed him up and I put him back into the barrack into his bed bunk.

269
00:22:40,633 --> 00:22:53,199
Maybe two hours later he comes up and he says to me, he says ah: "Where is that, yeah Judensäue, that I beat the hell out of him, because he was lying to me?"

270
00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:55,666
I said: "I don't know.

271
00:22:55,667 --> 00:22:59,432
Maybe he went to work and I didn't see him."

272
00:22:59,433 --> 00:23:06,099
Well I took my, my life in, in, in his hands, let's put it this way, lying to him and everything.

273
00:23:06,100 --> 00:23:09,232
But anyway somehow or another he sort of believed me.

274
00:23:09,233 --> 00:23:15,032
Meantime he was laying, he was, I was taking him from behind the door.

275
00:23:15,033 --> 00:23:18,066
So in case he comes in and he goes behind the door he says: "That's him."

276
00:23:18,067 --> 00:23:21,666
Well he climbed, he climbed in it, he, he crawled in, in there and that is what it is.

277
00:23:21,667 --> 00:23:23,532
But, no, he didn't look, he believed me.

278
00:23:23,533 --> 00:23:27,866
He was already in the barrack, in the bunk.

279
00:23:27,867 --> 00:23:32,166
I mean, in the bank, you know in the sleeping quarters.

280
00:23:32,167 --> 00:23:39,732
And the next day the guy went to work and if I wouldn't do that he would have fixed, fixed him up.

281
00:23:39,733 --> 00:23:41,099
He would have finished him off.

282
00:23:41,100 --> 00:23:47,799
So that was stories that they stayed for you and for the rest of your life, you know.

283
00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:58,666
And basic I, I couldn't, there was, there were incidents, but those are incidents that I survive with them.

284
00:23:58,667 --> 00:24:00,999
Otherwise I wouldn't be here.

285
00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:06,999
So that's why I say, what, what am I gonna write stories that are don't, they didn't, they, of course it wasn't,

286
00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:16,632
it wasn't ah stories that, that transpired in all those years were not pleasant ones that you got beaten up or everything.

287
00:24:16,633 --> 00:24:20,332
I tried to stay away from it, okay?

288
00:24:20,333 --> 00:24:25,499
IV: Mhm {confirming} can I ask you some questions especially about Flossenbürg?

289
00:24:25,500 --> 00:24:28,732
AM: Yes, absolutely, ah that is what you are here for to ask me.

290
00:24:28,733 --> 00:24:32,666
IV: Ah can you remember ah when you arrived here, what happened when you arrived?

291
00:24:32,667 --> 00:24:41,999
AM: In 19, we, we arrived here in 1944, I don't know exactly, I think it was about middle of the, middle of the year 1944.

292
00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:50,199
And we were here till 1945, I think April.

293
00:24:50,200 --> 00:25:02,832
And all of a sudden they were took all these, only the people that were with the, as KZ, you know, on, only the ones, the survivors.

294
00:25:02,833 --> 00:25:10,032
And they put us into cattle cars, {coughing} outside the, outside the camp.

295
00:25:10,033 --> 00:25:14,599
And they took us go to Dachau.

296
00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:22,999
Somehow or another the English or the American were flying on top and every time that train moved, boom.

297
00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:31,999
So I think that happened like that maybe twice or three times, then they got disgusted and they says: "Ach, get them of the trace, they'll walk."

298
00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:37,566
And that's when they walked in April, starting I think April 15.

299
00:25:37,567 --> 00:25:41,266
And we were walking to Dachau, we were, were supposingly.

300
00:25:41,267 --> 00:25:46,166
We didn't walked during the day, because they were afraid, they see us walking.

301
00:25:46,167 --> 00:25:49,766
So what we did, during the day we were at the barn, in the barns.

302
00:25:49,767 --> 00:25:51,999
And at night we were walking.

303
00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:55,132
And happens to be that year that was a lot of rain.

304
00:25:55,133 --> 00:26:01,166
But we on basically walked through the woods not on the main highway.

305
00:26:01,167 --> 00:26:13,066
Well we wind up after seven or eight days, we wind up in one of the barns, there was a few of them, but we were, I think we were one of the first ones.

306
00:26:13,067 --> 00:26:19,732
And we looked through the doors and there was, there was spot, spaces in between the boards.

307
00:26:19,733 --> 00:26:22,599
So we, they looked out and one guy says:

308
00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:24,632
"I see a tank with a white star.

309
00:26:24,633 --> 00:26:28,066
It must be the Russians."

310
00:26:28,067 --> 00:26:30,166
And there is another guy:

311
00:26:30,167 --> 00:26:32,266
"No, the Russians are, have a red star."

312
00:26:32,267 --> 00:26:36,632
You know meantime we have an argument is it red or white or what, is it the Russians or who are they?

313
00:26:36,633 --> 00:26:39,799
{coughing} But one guy, a guy said: "No, it is an American."

314
00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:43,199
So we pushed the doors open, we all went out.

315
00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:56,799
We ran out and, and of course the tank stops and they soldiers jumped of their tank and 80 percent of us are half dead.

316
00:26:56,800 --> 00:27:11,032
And ah they were falling like, they were falling like babies.

317
00:27:11,033 --> 00:27:12,232
IV: Can I help you?

318
00:27:12,233 --> 00:27:19,999
AM: Yes, can you get that file?

319
00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:27,332
See, this is another one that I was in Schwandorf.

320
00:27:27,333 --> 00:27:32,999
I lived there after, after the war.

321
00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:35,166
IV: So that is not far from here.

322
00:27:35,167 --> 00:27:36,632
AM: No, not far from here.

323
00:27:36,633 --> 00:27:39,099
I was in Regensburg, in Schwandorf.

324
00:27:39,100 --> 00:27:45,832
They, I was liberated in Pösing.

325
00:27:45,833 --> 00:27:53,666
This is me after the liberation.

326
00:27:53,667 --> 00:27:58,666
IV: Ah do you remember how old you have been when this picture has been made?

327
00:27:58,667 --> 00:28:01,266
AM: This picture, I was about 17 years old.

328
00:28:01,267 --> 00:28:04,932
IV: 17.

329
00:28:04,933 --> 00:28:13,666
AM: This is the place where we were liberated in Pösing.

330
00:28:13,667 --> 00:28:21,332
This is the picture, they put a stone, the next year they put ah put the stone there.

331
00:28:21,333 --> 00:28:22,999
IV: At place where you have been liberated?

332
00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:28,199
AM: In Pas, in Pösing, it's I hope it's still there.

333
00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:30,332
IV: That's close to Munich, isn't it?

334
00:28:30,333 --> 00:28:33,332
AM: Yeah, Pösing, it's ah, it's ah small ah village.

335
00:28:33,333 --> 00:28:34,466
IV: Yeah.

336
00:28:34,467 --> 00:28:39,732
AM: I think it's a brewer, "Brauerei", brewery, there was big brewery I think it was there.

337
00:28:39,733 --> 00:28:42,099
Yeah, it was at that time maybe, I don't know.

338
00:28:42,100 --> 00:28:44,166
IV: Well they have it everywhere here in southern Germany, the breweries.

339
00:28:44,167 --> 00:28:45,466
AM: Yeah, but that is what I say.

340
00:28:45,467 --> 00:28:52,499
Well, that's what I say, there was a brewery, because we went into town and that's what I can smell is beer.

341
00:28:52,500 --> 00:28:53,166
IV: Yeah.

342
00:28:53,167 --> 00:29:06,099
AM: And this is her, Elika, come here a minute, Jackie.

343
00:29:06,100 --> 00:29:07,632
So her father..., come here.

344
00:29:07,633 --> 00:29:09,332
JM: Sure.

345
00:29:09,333 --> 00:29:12,399
AM: Her father was a dentist in Warsaw.

346
00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:14,499
So this was done in Europe.

347
00:29:14,500 --> 00:29:15,999
JM: My great-grandfather.

348
00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:20,032
AM: Yeah and that is your, who's that?

349
00:29:20,033 --> 00:29:21,499
That's your, that's your aunt, that's your grandmother?

350
00:29:21,500 --> 00:29:38,232
JM: That is my grandmother, maternal, Irene Coneger and then my great-grandfather is Roland Coneger and he married Barbara Coneger, the sister of Irene, my grandmother.

351
00:29:38,233 --> 00:29:52,899
AM: And this, I'll show you this is my wife suffering with cancer for 20 years.

352
00:29:52,900 --> 00:29:57,499
She just passed away two years ago.

353
00:29:57,500 --> 00:30:09,999
And this is a great and great, great, great-grandmother it was done in France, before the war.

354
00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:22,166
IV: Ah, in Paris.

355
00:30:22,167 --> 00:30:39,932
AM: And these are notes that I found, just recently with that picture, not knowing that my wife left me.

356
00:30:39,933 --> 00:30:46,999
This is just a little bit.

357
00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:49,632
IV: And the picture, what does it, does it show?

358
00:30:49,633 --> 00:31:01,999
AM: It's a heart in a house.

359
00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:06,232
I got plenty of letters, but this is just happens to be attached to that picture.

360
00:31:06,233 --> 00:31:12,366
That's why I brought it.

361
00:31:12,367 --> 00:31:17,999
And this is, who's that?

362
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:21,999
Yeah, your grandma, isn't it?

363
00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:50,666
And she was working in Germany.

364
00:31:50,667 --> 00:31:54,999
This is my mum, her sister in South Africa.

365
00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:56,666
IV: Your mum and her sister?

366
00:31:56,667 --> 00:31:57,799
AM: Yeah.

367
00:31:57,800 --> 00:31:58,999
IV: And in South Africa?

368
00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:00,999
AM: Yeah, that was before the war.

369
00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:11,599
IV: Ah ja, they have been living down there also in South Africa or just?

370
00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:17,666
AM: They remained, my, my ah the aunt, my remain, remained in South Africa with the family.

371
00:32:17,667 --> 00:32:17,932
IV: Yeah.

372
00:32:17,933 --> 00:32:19,866
But my, my mum not.

373
00:32:19,867 --> 00:32:51,066
And this is her grandfather's thing from Germany, yeah.

374
00:32:51,067 --> 00:33:05,666
IV: Ich schlage es trotzdem einmal auf.

375
00:33:05,667 --> 00:33:11,666
AM: See to, to all theses camps there is stories to it, but it's, it'll take us forever.

376
00:33:11,667 --> 00:33:11,999
IV: Yeah.

377
00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:12,499
AM: You know what I mean?

378
00:33:12,500 --> 00:33:14,999
IV: But maybe some details just of Flossenbürg?

379
00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:15,999
AM: Like, yes, yes, yes, yes.

380
00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:16,999
IV: Just Flossenbürg.

381
00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:19,999
AM: Just Flossenbürg.

382
00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:21,999
What can I tell you?

383
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:25,332
It's basically, I worked in the Messerschmitt.

384
00:33:25,333 --> 00:33:28,599
You know in the, in the, on the aeroplanes.

385
00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:32,632
For I think, what was the company name, I think, yeah, it was Messerschmitt, ja.

386
00:33:32,633 --> 00:33:40,599
And ah we worked and slaved and ah basically that is what it was.

387
00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:46,566
The, the Kapos were very mean, you know what I mean.

388
00:33:46,567 --> 00:33:50,599
They were and they, they worked, they were not working uniforms like we did.

389
00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:52,166
You know, they had different uniforms.

390
00:33:52,167 --> 00:33:58,632
They were, were, they were dressed comparing to us like with it, these stripes, you know, and everything.

391
00:33:58,633 --> 00:34:06,666
But they wore normal uniforms and they, they treated us like, like that we're nobody, you know.

392
00:34:06,667 --> 00:34:16,999
It was very strict and everything else, but otherwise every morning you know, that was the normal thing, counting in the morning, counting at night, going to work, singing when you go to work.

393
00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:20,032
And if you don't sing, you, you know, you're being punished.

394
00:34:20,033 --> 00:34:23,132
But ah Flossenbürg was, was a short time.

395
00:34:23,133 --> 00:34:33,799
It was only, I was three months, April, we left April and we came in about beginning of 1944.

396
00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:36,066
Maybe a little later, I don't know.

397
00:34:36,067 --> 00:34:36,666
I didn't keep no dates.

398
00:34:36,667 --> 00:34:39,999
IV: So nearly one, but nearly one year, it's quite, it's long.

399
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:45,732
AM: I, I should say I was, we smelled already that something is happening.

400
00:34:45,733 --> 00:34:53,832
It's just like everything else that there is something till end that there is coming an end, there is coming and end somewheres and we were, everybody was worrying not to get killed.

401
00:34:53,833 --> 00:34:57,999
But that death march killed a lot of people.

402
00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:09,066
IV: So in during this time you, you still, yeah you might have been 15 years old or, you have been in this special childrens block or where, where did you sleep?

403
00:35:09,067 --> 00:35:11,332
What about the other people?

404
00:35:11,333 --> 00:35:15,899
AM: We slept on this, in the same, in the same camp, in the same barracks.

405
00:35:15,900 --> 00:35:17,599
Like where I was in a ninth barrack.

406
00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:23,432
There was kids like myself and there was elderly, it was, it was already a mixture.

407
00:35:23,433 --> 00:35:25,699
It wasn't, you were not segregated.

408
00:35:25,700 --> 00:35:28,099
You know what I mean, like you were kids separate.

409
00:35:28,100 --> 00:35:32,699
First of all, they didn't, they didn't want the kids, they didn't, they didn't want nobody.

410
00:35:32,700 --> 00:35:35,099
They wanted to get rid of us, the final solution, you know.

411
00:35:35,100 --> 00:35:38,999
You remember, ah you probably remember that, when it was the final solution.

412
00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:43,999
So we smelled it already that it's coming, but we didn't know where and what.

413
00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:53,932
So when we went on a death march that was, we were not, we was not a gas chamber, there was not of something that's gonna go through the smoke.

414
00:35:53,933 --> 00:35:59,832
Whoever made it, made it, so a lot of people died through that march, you know.

415
00:35:59,833 --> 00:36:03,299
And after that we wind up in hospitals.

416
00:36:03,300 --> 00:36:09,232
I wound up in a hospital in, in Pösing, alright.

417
00:36:09,233 --> 00:36:14,732
And some others were wind up in a hospital in Cham, I got the hernia, I got a "Bruch"?

418
00:36:14,733 --> 00:36:21,999
Ja, so, I had to do it right away, because it has been a while and every time I had to keep my, keep it in, put it in, put it in.

419
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:25,632
They, gladly that the war was over, that it was over.

420
00:36:25,633 --> 00:36:31,999
But the red cross grabbed me right away, put me in the hospital, I got surgery, I was six weeks and a half in a hospital.

421
00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:45,099
{coughing} And from then on, basically I ah, I probably just tried to relax.

422
00:36:45,100 --> 00:36:47,432
I think I got a picture.

423
00:36:47,433 --> 00:36:50,666
I did, I think, I did a picture.

424
00:36:50,667 --> 00:37:12,699
At the beginning, rush, rush, rush, it's not, it's not {laughing}, it's not what I like to do, but, you know, I think, I got it.

425
00:37:12,700 --> 00:37:14,732
You must have heard of Fromberg?

426
00:37:14,733 --> 00:37:15,599
IV: What?

427
00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:16,966
AM: A place Fromberg, here.

428
00:37:16,967 --> 00:37:18,132
IV: Fromberg?

429
00:37:18,133 --> 00:37:19,666
I don't know, I don't know.

430
00:37:19,667 --> 00:37:21,299
AM: Is right not far from here.

431
00:37:21,300 --> 00:37:29,899
Well this is the lady that I stayed in her house in Fromberg.

432
00:37:29,900 --> 00:37:33,466
Fromberg is here not, not a few kilometers.

433
00:37:33,467 --> 00:37:37,466
And she {coughing} gave us a room, myself and another friend of mine.

434
00:37:37,467 --> 00:37:39,999
And Sunday we had to have dinner with her.

435
00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:44,999
Which is a normal dinner, a Bavarian dinner, you know?

436
00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:47,666
And that's, but I, I have the original I have.

437
00:37:47,667 --> 00:38:04,666
Oh here it is.

438
00:38:04,667 --> 00:38:06,732
IV: And what time you got to her house?

439
00:38:06,733 --> 00:38:10,699
After the liberations, after?

440
00:38:10,700 --> 00:38:11,766
AM: After the liberation.

441
00:38:11,767 --> 00:38:14,666
IV: Yeah.

442
00:38:14,667 --> 00:38:19,332
AM: What is there on the other side?

443
00:38:19,333 --> 00:38:21,132
IV: Fromberg.

444
00:38:21,133 --> 00:38:23,666
Never heard about it, but maybe it's small.

445
00:38:23,667 --> 00:38:25,332
AM: Small town, small town.

446
00:38:25,333 --> 00:38:30,199
It's ah like a, it's like a, ah like a village.

447
00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:37,232
And, because you look at, looking at the house, how old are this, then, she was 70 years then.

448
00:38:37,233 --> 00:38:41,066
And she had a, she had a son that took care at the farm.

449
00:38:41,067 --> 00:38:43,932
And she stayed with her on, on the first floor.

450
00:38:43,933 --> 00:38:49,932
And the farm was I don't, maybe ah two kilometers away from there, you know?

451
00:38:49,933 --> 00:38:52,099
So she basically stayed at home.

452
00:38:52,100 --> 00:38:54,732
But she was very nice to us and ah.

453
00:38:54,733 --> 00:39:02,999
IV: Why did, did you get back, you, you have been liberated close to Pösing and why did you get back to the Oberpfalz to this place around here?

454
00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:06,666
AM: I went to Schwandorf, after I got out of the hospital.

455
00:39:06,667 --> 00:39:22,099
I was in the hospital in Pasing and I was in the hospital in Cham, because I had a thing, one I had ah is, here, the hernia and the other one, I think, I had the diarrhea for, overeating yourself, because you ate everything.

456
00:39:22,100 --> 00:39:29,766
{coughing} Then I went into Schwandorf, whether Schwandorf was a big Jewish population survivors.

457
00:39:29,767 --> 00:39:37,699
So I remain basically, I didn't go to a camp, I went a private place, you know, ah with another friend.

458
00:39:37,700 --> 00:39:50,232
And ah we ah and then from then I went to a children's home in Prien, Prien am Chiemsee.

459
00:39:50,233 --> 00:40:00,999
And ah we were there, basically all kids under 18, maybe 40 or 50 of us.

460
00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:07,532
And it was, you know, like a children's home, you know, we, we had lessons, different kind of lessons.

461
00:40:07,533 --> 00:40:11,366
Ah whatever you wanted to do, you were not restricted from anything.

462
00:40:11,367 --> 00:40:13,199
You wanted to go out, you went out.

463
00:40:13,200 --> 00:40:19,666
{coughing} And Prien am Chiemsee was a nice little village, you must, must have heard of it, right.

464
00:40:19,667 --> 00:40:30,166
And ah usually with, they have a boat, little boats, you could have take the boat and go across and there was some beautiful buildings there, you know.

465
00:40:30,167 --> 00:40:36,999
And basically we were there and ah just waiting for our next, what's happening next.

466
00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:42,932
So a lot of people signed up go to Israel, a lot of people signed up go to the United States, if they had family.

467
00:40:42,933 --> 00:41:03,299
In my case, I was fortunate enough that President Truman in 1940, 46 or 47 anounced on his birthday 1.500 Visas in his name to go to the United States.

468
00:41:03,300 --> 00:41:06,999
And I happened to be one of them.

469
00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:10,366
So at that day, I had two Visas.

470
00:41:10,367 --> 00:41:20,299
{laughing} A Visa to Israel, which was illegal to go at that time, because that time the English was still there and there was a lot of problems.

471
00:41:20,300 --> 00:41:24,332
Or I could go to the States.

472
00:41:24,333 --> 00:41:27,299
Well I decided to go to the States.

473
00:41:27,300 --> 00:41:37,599
And the States was not, is not what I expected, because I actually wanted to {coughing}, as I had decided that I wanted to go to Connecticut,

474
00:41:37,600 --> 00:41:46,399
because I had some friends that moved, they, they were here, they came to the States about six months prior of myself.

475
00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:57,332
And so, so I figured I call them up and they invited me out to Connecticut and, it was kind of wanted to be somebody, because I didn't have anybody.

476
00:41:57,333 --> 00:42:05,132
Language I didn't know, so I was gonna came back and I then and I went to, to the HIAS and I said:

477
00:42:05,133 --> 00:42:07,332
"I like to go to the United States."

478
00:42:07,333 --> 00:42:10,732
He says: "No, you gotta go to Kansas City, that's where your Visa is."

479
00:42:10,733 --> 00:42:12,399
I said: "I'm not going to Kansas City."

480
00:42:12,400 --> 00:42:17,199
{coughing} I said: "Now I am in a free country, I wanna do what's, what's free."

481
00:42:17,200 --> 00:42:20,166
That much I understood {laughing}.

482
00:42:20,167 --> 00:42:25,232
Well anyway, ah it came through, both Visas came through the same time.

483
00:42:25,233 --> 00:42:29,932
And I ah decided to go to the United States.

484
00:42:29,933 --> 00:42:34,366
And I was, went to the (???), if you want to remember that.

485
00:42:34,367 --> 00:42:40,532
{coughing} Near the ships, we were waiting for the ship there, an army ship, marina flag ship.

486
00:42:40,533 --> 00:42:45,466
And they took us ten days to get to New York.

487
00:42:45,467 --> 00:42:54,132
And finally we wind up in New York, and we were watching the Westside Highway and there was cars at night going back and forth.

488
00:42:54,133 --> 00:42:55,499
So I said: "Were are we?

489
00:42:55,500 --> 00:42:58,999
{laughing} These people don't sleep?"

490
00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:01,466
Well we found out afterwards.

491
00:43:01,467 --> 00:43:12,266
And the next day, the next couple of days, until we got all the papers from the ah immigration taken care of and everything.

492
00:43:12,267 --> 00:43:23,899
They took us to the Bronx to we, {coughing} it was a home an old, not a new, a quite old, and old ah stone house {coughing}.

493
00:43:23,900 --> 00:43:34,099
And all, we took us all, I don't know, maybe 20 of us, it was a lot of rooms in there, I don't know, maybe 15, up 15 rooms in that, up and down, three floors.

494
00:43:34,100 --> 00:43:40,266
And we were sitting there and waiting until we gonna leave.

495
00:43:40,267 --> 00:43:46,499
So that was, just before I went to, to Prien.

496
00:43:46,500 --> 00:43:54,332
IV: So ah before you went to the United States, did you try to find out what happened to the rest of your family?

497
00:43:54,333 --> 00:43:56,032
Did you try to make any contacts?

498
00:43:56,033 --> 00:43:56,599
Was it?

499
00:43:56,600 --> 00:43:58,866
AM: I tried, there was nothing.

500
00:43:58,867 --> 00:44:04,032
Especially from Warsaw people, {coughing} those were the first victims.

501
00:44:04,033 --> 00:44:09,299
First of all, they brought in from the small towns around Warsaw into Warsaw.

502
00:44:09,300 --> 00:44:26,166
And from Warsaw they were taking them to Auschwitz {coughing} or to Dachau or Buchenwald, basically for, gas them, burn them, you know and that's where the most of it went.

503
00:44:26,167 --> 00:44:37,099
And if you want, if you were lucky like myself, I don't know why, because maybe I was young, I, you never, you never need, they all only asked you:

504
00:44:37,100 --> 00:44:37,932
"How old are you?"

505
00:44:37,933 --> 00:44:40,666
And then you saw what the situation is.

506
00:44:40,667 --> 00:44:43,632
Sometimes you said a lie, you said, that you're older.

507
00:44:43,633 --> 00:44:45,132
Some you said, you're even younger.

508
00:44:45,133 --> 00:44:49,999
Ah it feel, it fitted, because you don't have no, you didn't have no birth certificate.

509
00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:55,332
You didn't have anything, so whatever you said, they took it for granted, you know.

510
00:44:55,333 --> 00:45:00,999
And ah somehow or another I, I'm here.

511
00:45:01,000 --> 00:45:04,999
IV: Yeah, but in an age of around 17 ah..

512
00:45:05,000 --> 00:45:05,299
AM: 18.

513
00:45:05,300 --> 00:45:13,832
IV: ..18 finding out, ah now being an orphan having lost whole the family, having survived the Holocaust, what did you feel?

514
00:45:13,833 --> 00:45:18,166
So that now you told the, have been talking a lot about facts, but..

515
00:45:18,167 --> 00:45:19,666
AM: About what?

516
00:45:19,667 --> 00:45:23,499
IV: Ah what about your feelings at this time?

517
00:45:23,500 --> 00:45:30,999
AM: It was very bad, but I had friends that we survived together like in Connecticut.

518
00:45:31,000 --> 00:45:46,299
And you and I am start out to find out to belong to a Jewish organization like the work man circle that were Jewish, Jewish people that, that came over and asked me who are you, where are you

519
00:45:46,300 --> 00:45:50,666
and I have meet people that led me different ways.

520
00:45:50,667 --> 00:45:52,799
And that's how I learned my life.

521
00:45:52,800 --> 00:46:07,132
Followed certain people that I felt that they're nice people, they are respected, respectful people and they helped me to get on my feet.

522
00:46:07,133 --> 00:46:10,566
I saw, I saw I can, I can survive.

523
00:46:10,567 --> 00:46:19,799
At the beginning I didn't believe, I wanted to come back, because they had JC's, the Jewish Community Center gave me the, at that time there was no Jewish Community Center.

524
00:46:19,800 --> 00:46:25,732
They didn't have any money, because it was right after the war, people, {coughing} it was depression, the war and everything else.

525
00:46:25,733 --> 00:46:28,332
So money wasn't that easy.

526
00:46:28,333 --> 00:46:43,866
And they, so they basically they gave me a job and they gave me room, ah space {coughing} to live with the Jewish family and I was making 80, 75 cents an hour.

527
00:46:43,867 --> 00:46:50,199
By the time I make my weeks paid 28 Dollars after social security and everything else.

528
00:46:50,200 --> 00:46:52,099
I was finished and I said:

529
00:46:52,100 --> 00:46:53,566
"Ey, this is not for you.

530
00:46:53,567 --> 00:46:55,799
You got to get better."

531
00:46:55,800 --> 00:47:01,999
And I was very ambitious and I worked myself up as best as could be.

532
00:47:02,000 --> 00:47:08,166
IV: So maybe you can tell me a little bit, building up a new carreer, a new life and what happened to you?

533
00:47:08,167 --> 00:47:09,666
What did you do?

534
00:47:09,667 --> 00:47:20,599
AM: I basically, what career, I basically I was, I was aiming, because I've seen that this country money talks.

535
00:47:20,600 --> 00:47:24,332
And I made a mistake.

536
00:47:24,333 --> 00:47:29,499
Instead going for an education which I couldn't afford it.

537
00:47:29,500 --> 00:47:41,332
There was no help, I went to night school as many, as many times as I could, because I worked from seven o'clock in the morning till five o'clock at night, by time I get home and everything else.

538
00:47:41,333 --> 00:47:49,366
English, all my English is I learned when I came home and I laid down after dinner I put the radio on, there was no TV that time.

539
00:47:49,367 --> 00:47:55,499
I put the radio on, listen to the radio and followed the language.

540
00:47:55,500 --> 00:47:57,999
And kept on repeating.

541
00:47:58,000 --> 00:48:02,766
The next day I went to work, I tried to speak English to the people, just the same.

542
00:48:02,767 --> 00:48:07,466
And this was, this, you that's what you see, that's what you got.

543
00:48:07,467 --> 00:48:15,999
I made very well, but same time I lost my wife, I lost everything.

544
00:48:16,000 --> 00:48:23,066
I have two sons, I have six grandchildren.

545
00:48:23,067 --> 00:48:27,432
And got, I got nices and nephews, you know.

546
00:48:27,433 --> 00:48:31,999
This is my second nice.

547
00:48:32,000 --> 00:48:35,432
IV: And ah later on, what kind of job did you do?

548
00:48:35,433 --> 00:48:39,032
AM: Anything, that I can make a dollar {laughing}.

549
00:48:39,033 --> 00:48:48,366
Because I've seen education I didn't, I couldn't get, I got the best I know how, but there were times I had, can't afford it to spend.

550
00:48:48,367 --> 00:48:53,699
And somehow or another my wife was educated so she took over everything.

551
00:48:53,700 --> 00:48:59,932
She was the secretary and I was the, the laborer.

552
00:48:59,933 --> 00:49:16,332
One job, two jobs, three jobs, whatever I could do to save a dollar, like a typical, typical ah what is they call it, a typical greenhorn let's put it this way {laughing}, plain English.

553
00:49:16,333 --> 00:49:27,232
But I, I thank God I'm, I'm here, not the happiest guy on two feet, but God gives me years to live, so I'm here.

554
00:49:27,233 --> 00:49:33,999
And I'm coming here to help out whatever transpired in my life or anybody else's life.

555
00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:39,399
IV: Ah did you before today, did you ever come back to Germany or?

556
00:49:39,400 --> 00:49:46,999
AM: No, I came back, but I came back, we came back to Slovakia, because we, {coughing} my wife liked the beds in, in Czech.

557
00:49:47,000 --> 00:49:52,666
We came back to Austria, we came back to France, we went to Belgium.

558
00:49:52,667 --> 00:49:55,166
Every year we went somewhere else.

559
00:49:55,167 --> 00:49:58,632
We had thank God a, a life, a normal life, you know, what I mean.

560
00:49:58,633 --> 00:50:03,999
We were not millionairs, but we were left, lived comfortable.

561
00:50:04,000 --> 00:50:06,966
And we let live, live and let live.

562
00:50:06,967 --> 00:50:15,766
IV: Yeah and remembering this time in the concentration camps, so later on in your family, you've been talking about it to your children,..

563
00:50:15,767 --> 00:50:15,666
AM: There was no..

564
00:50:15,667 --> 00:50:16,932
IV: ..to your grandchildren?

565
00:50:16,933 --> 00:50:18,166
Or you tried to forget it?

566
00:50:18,167 --> 00:50:20,032
And now you came back, so maybe tell us..

567
00:50:20,033 --> 00:50:21,966
AM: It's been coming back all along.

568
00:50:21,967 --> 00:50:26,732
I used to wake up during the night and I scream and yell and cry.

569
00:50:26,733 --> 00:50:31,999
Now I'm on, by myself, but my wife was there she kept on waking:

570
00:50:32,000 --> 00:50:34,166
"Abe, stop."

571
00:50:34,167 --> 00:50:44,732
You know, I screamed, yelled, you know, just things coming back that you, that you saw and what you saw and what you and you wake up during the night and you think about it.

572
00:50:44,733 --> 00:50:47,999
How, how, how did I make, how did I survive?

573
00:50:48,000 --> 00:50:51,032
Miracles.

574
00:50:51,033 --> 00:50:52,932
They say, there is no, there are miracles.

575
00:50:52,933 --> 00:50:58,332
I found miracles.

576
00:50:58,333 --> 00:51:01,032
And not, not everybody can say the same thing.

577
00:51:01,033 --> 00:51:10,999
Thank God I'm not crippled, ah my brain is not a 100 percent, but close to it, maybe 50 {laughing}.

578
00:51:11,000 --> 00:51:26,199
You know, I do, do, my, my memory is still pretty good, remembering 50, 60, 70 years what transpired, you know and if you think about it, your memory comes back.

579
00:51:26,200 --> 00:51:32,332
IV: So and now, what do you feel ah, coming here to Flossenbürg, now you are in an, in a nice Hotel, but still a little bit crowded.

580
00:51:32,333 --> 00:51:35,266
AM: I'm here, I'm here what I left.

581
00:51:35,267 --> 00:51:40,232
I left here to come back and say:

582
00:51:40,233 --> 00:51:42,332
"Thank God that I'm still here."

583
00:51:42,333 --> 00:51:45,366
After 65 years I'm still here.

584
00:51:45,367 --> 00:51:47,632
A lot of people didn't make it.

585
00:51:47,633 --> 00:52:01,166
Many of them and I'm, I then I used to go {coughing} when I was, when I was a little younger I used to go to schools and speak to children, you know, about the Holocaust.

586
00:52:01,167 --> 00:52:18,999
And ah I got letters like this from kids and then I used to break down, while I was speaking and I think it, this is not healthy for me, because the night is not gonna be a good night.

587
00:52:19,000 --> 00:52:22,299
And there were a lot, many other ones that didn't break down.

588
00:52:22,300 --> 00:52:29,766
I still break down, even today, even today at the, at lunch, I started to talk about it and bum.

589
00:52:29,767 --> 00:52:31,132
There is my tears.

590
00:52:31,133 --> 00:52:33,999
Ah because it's in me.

591
00:52:34,000 --> 00:52:36,699
It's not never go away.

592
00:52:36,700 --> 00:52:41,132
Never, never, never, never.

593
00:52:41,133 --> 00:52:46,999
And ah and it brings back memories that you, that you really don't wanna talk about it.

594
00:52:47,000 --> 00:52:54,966
But especial during the night you, you can't help it, it don't let you sleep, you know.

595
00:52:54,967 --> 00:52:57,999
So I take a sleeping pill {laughing}.

596
00:52:58,000 --> 00:53:04,266
IV: And what do you expect, I think tomorrow you will go to the memorial site.

597
00:53:04,267 --> 00:53:06,266
What are your feelings seeing this places?

598
00:53:06,267 --> 00:53:10,232
AM: I'll, I'll probably, I'll probably break down, you know.

599
00:53:10,233 --> 00:53:16,099
Or speak there is some, I go to the cemetary now almost every once a month or once in two months.

600
00:53:16,100 --> 00:53:27,332
There is my my, my wife is there, {coughing} her parents are there, my in-laws are there, you know it's in Palm Beach, Florida.

601
00:53:27,333 --> 00:53:33,299
And basically and I talk to them, do they answer me?

602
00:53:33,300 --> 00:53:34,599
Maybe yes and maybe no.

603
00:53:34,600 --> 00:53:38,132
I can't hear.

604
00:53:38,133 --> 00:53:39,932
How long, I don't know.

605
00:53:39,933 --> 00:53:45,032
It's a man, man above is gonna be my judge.

606
00:53:45,033 --> 00:53:46,266
Whenever he say:

607
00:53:46,267 --> 00:53:51,999
"Come on, time is up."

608
00:53:52,000 --> 00:53:57,999
And otherwise you got more answ.., more questions I'll be glad to answer to you.

609
00:53:58,000 --> 00:54:01,099
Seriously, no I'm, I'm not kidding.

610
00:54:01,100 --> 00:54:08,999
Whenever you wanna know anything else just, just shoot {laughing}.

611
00:54:09,000 --> 00:54:13,466
You're not talking, I've been doing all the talking {laughing}.

612
00:54:13,467 --> 00:54:17,666
I know you want me to talk and I don't blame you, okay, that's what you're here for.

613
00:54:17,667 --> 00:54:28,232
But no, if you think of something that's, it'll be more interesting than whatever I tell you or why should I tell you stories, if they are not there?!

614
00:54:28,233 --> 00:54:31,999
I'm telling you exactly, exactly what I went through.

615
00:54:32,000 --> 00:54:37,232
I had a tough life when I was a child.

616
00:54:37,233 --> 00:54:39,499
I lost my parents.

617
00:54:39,500 --> 00:54:54,332
I wound up in jail, {laughing} I got almost hanged by my neck, I almost got killed in the concentration camps, but didn't mean nothing to kill somebody, to shoot somebody or whatever or beaten them, beat them up or whatever.

618
00:54:54,333 --> 00:54:57,832
So, what am I gonna say, that I got beaten up?

619
00:54:57,833 --> 00:55:02,932
It's normal.

620
00:55:02,933 --> 00:55:09,999
IV: Ah is there anything special you want to tell me now in this interview?

621
00:55:10,000 --> 00:55:19,332
AM: If there is, I cannot express myself now.

622
00:55:19,333 --> 00:55:22,666
IV: Okay, then we finish it.

623
00:55:22,667 --> 00:55:25,999
AM: I guess so, what ah what do we spend?

624
00:55:26,000 --> 00:55:28,032
Half an hour, three-quarter, an hour.

625
00:55:28,033 --> 00:55:29,432
More than that I think.

626
00:55:29,433 --> 00:55:30,999
IV: More than one hour.

627
00:55:31,000 --> 00:55:33,332
AM: {coughing} I didn't, I didn't expect even that much.

628
00:55:33,333 --> 00:55:45,999
{laughing} No seriously, because I'm tired and my eyes are, you know, we didn't sleep all night and the day before we didn't sleep either, because I was travelling from West Palm to, to Washington to meet my nice.

629
00:55:46,000 --> 00:55:51,999
And then that night, we didn't, I didn't sleep either, so it's, it's taking the toll on me {laughing}.

630
00:55:52,000 --> 00:55:54,499
And I'm not 19 anymore.

631
00:55:54,500 --> 00:55:57,166
I'm getting to be 19 {laughing}.

632
00:55:57,167 --> 00:56:02,699
He's laughing, as long you laugh, everything is gonna be okay.

633
00:56:02,700 --> 00:56:06,332
When you start crying, that's bad {laughing}.

634
00:56:06,333 --> 00:56:09,332
IV: So as, how long you are going to stay here in Germany now?

635
00:56:09,333 --> 00:56:10,532
Just for this some days here?

636
00:56:10,533 --> 00:56:12,799
AM: No, I'm gonna, we're gonna stay.

637
00:56:12,800 --> 00:56:15,332
JM: That's why it was changed to M-A-I-S.

638
00:56:15,333 --> 00:56:15,332
IV: Yeah.

639
00:56:15,333 --> 00:56:20,399
AM: See originally my name is M-A-J-Z-N-E-R.

640
00:56:20,400 --> 00:56:25,999
In Europe it's, it's "J" is used as a "J".

641
00:56:26,000 --> 00:56:28,199
They don't use here the "J".

642
00:56:28,200 --> 00:56:32,966
So they said: "That'll be very difficult for you, to every time to spell it."

643
00:56:32,967 --> 00:56:35,366
When you say: "Maisner", it's M-A-I.

644
00:56:35,367 --> 00:56:43,999
IV: Yeah, so here ah anyway how you write it, ah we, we pronounce it the same.

645
00:56:44,000 --> 00:56:44,166
JM: Okay.

646
00:56:44,167 --> 00:56:44,899
IV: It's always you say...

647
00:56:44,900 --> 00:56:47,332
AM: No if you, if you have "J".

648
00:56:47,333 --> 00:56:49,999
IV: If it's A-A-E- (???) Maisner.

649
00:56:50,000 --> 00:56:51,332
AM: A-I, A-I.

650
00:56:51,333 --> 00:56:51,999
IV: A-I.

651
00:56:52,000 --> 00:56:57,799
AM: Ah, but if, if you spell, if you have the "J", it sounds like "maj", "maj", "maj", "majasner".

652
00:56:57,800 --> 00:57:01,666
Like I have a friend of mine, that is Freid, "Freijermen", Freimen.

653
00:57:01,667 --> 00:57:03,599
So he has the "J" there.

654
00:57:03,600 --> 00:57:08,800
So it becomes "Freijermen" ah it..