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MA: Today is Saturday 21st of July 2012. On behalf of The Flossenbürg Memorial we are conducting an interview with Avraham Fabischewitsch, who lives in Israel today.

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My Name is Michael Aue of the Medienwerkstatt Franken.

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IV: I will ask and you'll answer me. Not to the camera. Whatever I ask, you answer me, not the camera, look at me.

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AF: Yes, to you.

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IV: Yes, we're speaking.

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AF: You have to speak louder.

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IV: I'll speak louder, ok.

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MA: Ok, now in the beginning please ask him, just to tell his name, when he was born, where he was born and maybe a bit about the family and the beginning of his story.

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Not just to start with the holocaust thing, just.

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IV: Ok, what is your last name, when were you born, and a few words about your family, how it all began.

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AF: Ok, so I can, so we'll speak in, in Hebrew, yes?

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So my name is Avraham Fabischewitch. I was born near Warsaw, it's called Pruszków. As the Germans invaded they took us to the Warsaw ghetto.

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IV: In what year were you born?

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AF: I was born in 1926.

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IV: What date?

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AF: On September 1st, 1926. Ok? So as the Germans invaded, the took us from Pruszków to the Warsaw ghetto.

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The father, we were a family of 7: father, mother, I had a brother and three girls, sister. I wasn't the youngest.

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After me there was another girl, the youngest sister, who was maybe six. I was, I think, maybe 11 years old, since I didn't celebrate my Bar Mitzva yet.

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So they took us, so yes, they took my father to work before we went to the ghetto. My father and brother to work. My brother was older. And me and my mother and my little sister and... they took us to the Warsaw ghetto.

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I had two more sisters, so one of them escaped, escaped to the partisans, and one, she would go to, to help father at work.

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Her name was, can I say names?

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IV: Yes, yes

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AF: So it's... father was called Meir. Mother was called Malka. My older sister was called Anja. Then came my brother, his name was Felix.

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After Felix there was a sister called Ania. And then me Avraham. Then there was another girl, a little sister, she was maybe 5 or 6, her name was Pola.

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Everyone was scattered. The Germans scattered the... Only me, my mother and younger sister Pola were left at home.

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The Germans took us and we left to Warsaw ghetto. We took with us what mother gave to each of us, to carry on our backs.

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I remember she gave me bed sheets, to cover up. A blanket on the... she gave me.

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But when we were about to board the train, to go to Warsaw ghetto, the Germans took me away from my mother. And then I was alone already.

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IV: What year was that?

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AF: I, I think it was 41. As they, before they closed the ghetto. They didn't close it yet.

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When we arrived to the ghetto, I don't know, don't remember. We met mother.

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Mother looked for me, she found me. We got some apartment of some family, we had, we found. And we lived on the street, I remember the street, it was called (???), this I remember.

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There we lived, and we had a few things that each of us carried with us. We started selling and buying food. Till it ran out. We had nothing to eat anymore.

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We were left me, my little sister Ania and mother. We looked for livelihood.  So she, so mother set up a tray for me. On it she put.

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IV: Matches? Stop. Drink. Stop. Drink something.

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If it's difficult for you to talk about this carry on.

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A.F.: What?

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IV: If it's difficult for you to talk about this, let's go on.

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AF: No, I want to. I can talk about this.

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IV: Ok.

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AF: I can talk about this. She gave me a tray and on it we would put cigarettes, candy, and my little sister was next to me, would do a little, would hold me by the pants.

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And I would sing, so they would buy dry cigarettes, not wet. Not wet from the rain. I can still remember the rhyme.

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{Sings the rhyme}

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What, with that I began. There were criminals, each one, the children who stole from me. They took everything.

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I was left with nothing, I got beat up, and this is how my, my trade ended. That I needed to provide for the family.

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So we were left the three of us - mother, my little sister and me, and we have no food. We had nothing to eat.

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We sold everything we had. I was already 12 maybe.

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I started running away from the ghetto to search for food.

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How I ran away, there was one train that was the train on which the Poles had to cross the ghetto.

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To cross, so while the tram would enter, another would leave. So between them we would escape.

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I say "we" in plural, since I wasn't alone, there were more.

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The Germans would shoot, but we wouldn't look at it. We would escape. That's how I would go between the Christians and ask for food.

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Some threw me, emm, a carrot or a potato or bread.

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Sometimes, I remember till this day, a piece of cake. But there were also some who would pour their bedpan on me, pour on me.

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I, on the way back it was the same.

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I had to hide it here, on my stomach, and again run between the trains, and I brought it home.

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And this, this, this was food. Mother would always ask me where I got it from.

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So I would always say I found it here, I found it there. I always had an excuse.

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So mother found out I was running away, that I was running, and she knew they shot there, so she said: "You, well die, but you won't run away anymore".

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I remember it was in the, in the ghetto, on the wall, so the ghetto was closed already, there was a synagogue, it's name was Tłomackie, the synagogue.

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There you could bribe the Polish officer and the Jewish one, and there was a hole, pit, I, from there you could go out.

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So mother said, "if this is what you do, we have to eat something, and you want to take the risk, at least I'll feel safe, with a quiet heart."

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IV: Drink something dad, it's (???)

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AF: So she said, "so I'll feel more at ease, safer. Take, I have ten Zloty".

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She gave me the ten Zloty.

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She said "here, now I'll feel safer. You'll bribe the Polish or Jewish officer and they'll let you through the wall.

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As so it was, I passed.

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And I passed, and I drove, and Pruszków, where I was born, and there in the tram there was Pruszków and there was Warsaw.

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It was very close, 15 minute drive with the tram.

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So this is how I traveled with that train.

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Germans boarded the train and asked me for documents.

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On the document is said Fabischewitsch Adam. That's ok, but they asked me where I live, and I stupidly, I don't know what, I said the truth.

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I guess I didn't know how to lie. I said I lived (???) so he immediately said (???). That's, that's the ghetto.

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So they took me from the tram and took me to the police. The Germans, there was Gestapo there, in the yard.

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No, they went further up, I remember, I climbed stairs, they took me up.

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I tried to escape, but I don't know why they didn't shoot me, but they caught me and put me in... a dog's cage.

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There they kept me. They kept me for I don't know how long.

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But since that moment I didn't see my mother, my family anymore.

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From there they took me to a prison, it was called (???), there were many children there.

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So, we were 150 children. The grown-ups, there was a wall, and they were shot. They didn't shoot us.

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One day they came, they took us out, brought us to the Umschlagplatz.

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In the Umschlagplatz they boarded us on a train. It was terrible in the Umschlagplatz, SS-men with dogs bit us, shouted, hits.

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And us, we were about 1,700 Warsaw Jews, they put on the train.

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In shortcut I, we started going, and we didn't know where. But we went.

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And so we went, I don't know how long. I guess more than 10 days, that... And we made it to Belarussia, Belarussia they called it.

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And there they let us in, dropped us off there, and there a special gestapo, special clothes, very brutal, very brutal.

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That everything... they, if I couldn't jump out of the cart fast I would've been hit with his (???). Or he had special whips, those whips would leave a wound immediately.

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That's how they let us into horse-stalls, that the garbage of the horses of the Russians, this was a sign they had just left.

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The garbage was still warm, and there they let us in. A long time passes, for a long time we didn't sit, and then, after maybe half an hour, they let us out, held an Appell.

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Appell means roll-call, it's a roll call, and they asked me, asked us who wants to go back in Richtung Heimat.

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Richtung Heimat means home, who wants to go.

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I don't know. I had another friend Shutland.

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We said: "Avraham, come, let's stay, we aren't going back home, in Richtung Heimat." They offered us to peel potatos.

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Whoever stays would peel potatoes, those who don't want will go home. And so it was.

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Us, whoever didn't want to go, they put us back in. We heard how they closed the doors, and they took them.

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And after half an hour we heard the shots, and then we got their clothes.

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And this is how I was in Babrujsk, I worked there and in the Bauabteilung. Bauabteilung, that means construction.

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For, I don't know how long, but we were one transport of 1,700 Warsaw Jews.

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Then came another one, another transport like this.

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In shortcut, 41 remained. We received one loaf of bread for 14 people and a soup from beet.

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And how long we were there I can't remember.

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But one day we were sure they would kill us. Out of 3,100, close to 4,000 Warsaw Jews, 41 remained.

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They didn't take us to work, but we were inside the camp, but I was taken at some point to warm the water in the kitchen.

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The SS-man was called Adolf Eich, Adolf was his name. He knew Yiddish, knew German and knew Polish.

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He was a sadist. He gave me a dog to cook, and then he...

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Anyway, a favor. He took a loaf of bread and threw it in the pot. And that we ate.

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And we lived that way I don't know how long. And this was still good.

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All of those who went to clean the bathroom would bring bones from the SS-men kitchen, we would br.... and that I would do.

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I would cook and take off the fat, and from this we lived.

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Until one clear day, I don't know how, and it came, they came and took us and brought us to Minsk.

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Without saying anything, without a word, without anything.

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But what they did say, the Germans, was that there are no more Jews, that they are coming back from the Warsaw ghetto uprising.

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The SS-men told, to make us happy, so they said "you should know, it's only you. There are no more Jews. We killed all the Jews in Warsaw ghetto".

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And that, that, that we knew. That we lived.

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Until one day they took us to, to trucks, and brought us to Minsk.

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We arrived in Minsk, we saw a lot of Jews, and there I met my friend, who is called Zvi Feldman.

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Here sits Kobi, that's his son. And then I met Zvi Feldman and we were together.

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In Minsk there were people who came directly, the Germans took them directly from the houses, from the houses, and we came as the savages, who've already been though hell.

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We would steal the (???), we lived from that.

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We would hide after, after the houses, we were being chased away, so we wouldn't infect them with lice.

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Our clothes were white, khaki, with a cross on the back, and here red, red painted.

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Like that, so were our clothes. We were a lot, how long, I can't remember how long we were in Minsk.

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From Minsk they took us, put me, us, inside. There were Jews there too, German Jews and Russian Jews, and us, a few, from Poland, from Warsaw.

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They put us on trains and we went.

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But I already had experience in a closed train, for a bit of a bit, otherwise you died.

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They put us in, didn't count, just put in as many as fit. They pushed it until the door could close.

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I found a crack, down, I remember, I laid down on the floor.

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I was skinny, small, and I had a crack with some air. And then everyone was jealous, those who had some bread from home asked me for it, for this spot.

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I said ok. I'll give you the spot, give me bread, and this is how it was.

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We drove for a while, I can't remember, they brought us to Majdanek.

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In Majdanek we were there, it was awful, SS-men with dogs, the dogs bit us.

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I don't know how I hid to not get bitten. They were special dogs.

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Wolfs you only see on TV, these dogs, and Germans with whips.

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Only hitting, not talking, shouting, and the dogs.

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And they did, we weren't there for a long time, they did Appell, roll-call again.

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But during the Appell this German said "whoever has a trade stand on this side. Those without one stand on that side".

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I, I didn't have any trade, neither did Zvi Feldman, rest in peace. We had no trade. We were still children.

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We took. Again we took the honest road, I don't know, I've always been honest, I never knew how to lie.

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I walked, since I had no trade, so I walked to those without a trade.

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And... and again all those without a trade, they put us back in the trains and we started. To the trains and they closed us.

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And all those who stayed, many thousands stayed in Majdanek.

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I never saw them again. They, they were all burnt there in Majdanek.

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We went, they put us on the trains. We weren't a lot of people.

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And they brought us to, to Budzin. From Majdanek to Budzin, Poland. Budzin, there we met so many Jews.

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Jews. There was an SS-man who was terrible, a murderer.

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So they said that we're lucky, we came today and he left yesterday.

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So that's how the 4, the 41 of us remained alive.

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And we managed. We worked in Budzin.

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There, in Budzin, they took us for a while to the Umschlagpla... Umschulung they called it.

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Umschulung means, ah, before the wa... to teach someone a trade.

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So it's called, it's a school to learn a trade.

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Us, in Israel, how is it called? Nevermind.

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And they let us learn to file, to work with a chainsaw, and these were Volksdeutsche, they taught us, Volksdeutsche.

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And from there, this is how we learned for a long time, and from there the took us to Mielec. In Mielec I got this KL.

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And we worked in airplanes in (???), this was a part of the plane where the pilot sat.

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There it was also a horrible camp, they would hang people from the hands.

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We would go to work in the morning, we could see a row - people hung by their hands. This was, this was something terrible.

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And... and we went to work and like this we had to go back.

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In Mielec for how long I was, I can't remember. From Mielec they sent us.

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From 41 not a lot remained, I think maybe 7. They were also hung there.

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And there was a big surface, where they hung people not only by the hands, also. hung.

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There was one instance, they hung a person three times it ripped, and in the end they hung him.

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In Mielec, when they did this KL, he also said: "If you don't hold tightly, don't cry, don't yell, I will do it more gently. If you yell I'll do it harder."

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But it hurt a lot, what he did, with a needle, needle, rudely. He stabbed me, stabbed with this, with a pen. But I survived it.

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From Mielec came a command, we never knew when. They never said tomorrow we'll do this or later we'll do that, a plan. We never knew a plan.

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They took us, sent us to Wieliczka.

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Wieliczka was a salt mine. They didn't take us to work, we didn't do anything, but we also didn't get food.

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I don't know what we ate, we ate from each other.

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The people who worked in the bathrooms, cleaning the toilettes, this was the best work.

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They would bring some food. Whatever they found they would bring and at night we would share it.

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We shared. I'm telling you, our group from Bobrujsk that we were together from the Warsaw ghetto, we held ourselves together, all the time together.

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Zvika, I remember. We cook it, the bones, whatever they brought.

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I can't remember how long we were in Wieliczka. One day again they gathered us in Wieliczka and took us all, put on trains and we went to Flossenbürg.

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How long. Should I take a break?

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MA: Ok. Yeah.

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IV: He told, this is too short. Short story until he got to Floss, where he stopped.

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{unverständlich}

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MA: Ok, so maybe we take a 30 seconds break, just to drink a little bit and to relax, and…

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IV: Take a short break, come back to yourself.

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AF: We went to Flossenbürg, how long.

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IV: Wait dad, a few minutes. Give them a few minutes. Maybe they need to recover from it.

182
00:26:25,533 --> 00:26:26,666
AF: What?

183
00:26:26,667 --> 00:26:35,399
IV: Stop for a minute... ask the question.

184
00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:46,099
MA: For the camera it’s better…(???)

185
00:26:46,100 --> 00:26:50,299
IV: When you talk, look at me. Look at me.

186
00:26:50,300 --> 00:26:52,499
AF: Ok. Did you ask anything?

187
00:26:52,500 --> 00:26:53,299
IV: What?

188
00:26:53,300 --> 00:26:54,066
AF: Did you ask me something?

189
00:26:54,067 --> 00:26:57,132
IV: No, no no. No. Easy, take a few seconds.

190
00:26:57,133 --> 00:26:57,332
AF: Ok.

191
00:26:57,333 --> 00:26:58,999
IV: Once you can go on.

192
00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:00,966
AF: Here, ah... From Wieliczka they...

193
00:27:00,967 --> 00:27:03,299
IV: One second. You can see they're filming.

194
00:27:03,300 --> 00:27:03,499
AF: What?

195
00:27:03,500 --> 00:27:08,532
IV: One second, I'll see it's actually filming. One second. You want to drink some more dad?

196
00:27:08,533 --> 00:27:11,132
AF: I drank, yes.

197
00:27:11,133 --> 00:27:11,999
MA: Ok. We can continue. We can…

198
00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:14,499
IV: Yeah? Alright, so…

199
00:27:14,500 --> 00:27:14,466
IV: Go on.

200
00:27:14,467 --> 00:27:19,832
AF: Can I go on? We drove, drove. They put us on trains.

201
00:27:19,833 --> 00:27:29,032
Where? We didn't know. And so we went, drove for a long time. But for some time the train actually stood.

202
00:27:29,033 --> 00:27:38,066
That was the worst situation. But all of this, look, we drove. No food, they didn't give food, I don't know from what.

203
00:27:38,067 --> 00:27:49,032
Until this day I ask myself, what did I live on? I was already a Muselmann. I walked on two sticks. They called me a Muselmann already too.

204
00:27:49,033 --> 00:27:58,699
And I would turn the same way, where they were all sent, where the SS called them for freedom.

205
00:27:58,700 --> 00:28:06,799
We stood a long time on the train. The train stood for a long time. We didn't know where.

206
00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:14,099
Only now we know they wanted to bring us to Dachau or to Auschwitz.

207
00:28:14,100 --> 00:28:16,432
Only know we found out.

208
00:28:16,433 --> 00:28:23,999
And afterwards they anyway, we drove, we arrived to Flossenbürg. In Flossenbürg we stood.

209
00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:34,999
They open the doors. The "raus, raus, raus". Yellings, dogs, SS-men, beating. Something "quickly, quickly, jump off the trains quickly."

210
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:46,566
They were many. So this, I'm talking about people who were more or less, who didn't, there were many who fell down and were shot and stayed.

211
00:28:46,567 --> 00:28:52,066
And there's me, a Muselmann, I still jumped on my feet.

212
00:28:52,067 --> 00:29:02,232
I stayed, but many were killed before their time who didn't, didn't, didn't run fast enough out of the trains.

213
00:29:02,233 --> 00:29:13,666
We got organized. Once again they did an Appell. We started walking, I can't remember how long. In Flossenbürg. I didn't know yet it was called Flossenbürg.

214
00:29:13,667 --> 00:29:20,866
Only when we arrived, by the gate, it said Flossenbürg. We arrived at the gate.

215
00:29:20,867 --> 00:29:27,599
They let us in.

216
00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:37,666
I can't remember if this was, if the one with the violin sat by the door, by the gate, yes, played, there was an orchestra.

217
00:29:37,667 --> 00:29:54,799
That's how we walked in, in the camp. They did some registration and brought us to, it was called Entlausung, Entlausung, Washroom.

218
00:29:54,800 --> 00:30:04,166
They told us to strip. We stripped. We stood by whoever was the barber, they asked who's a barber.

219
00:30:04,167 --> 00:30:09,732
They give him, ah, some machine, and he shaved us.

220
00:30:09,733 --> 00:30:18,666
Shaved us, took off every hair so it won't fall back, and here up left a Läusestraße, it was called.

221
00:30:18,667 --> 00:30:33,699
Läusestraße. This was, a golden road, road, roads. So we walked around naked.

222
00:30:33,700 --> 00:30:40,999
On one side they really sprayed us, on the other they did water.

223
00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:51,866
But truth to be told, as they put us in we said, they told us to strip, we looked at the ceiling and said here, this is the end.

224
00:30:51,867 --> 00:30:59,999
Here, this, they're giving us the gas. There were many who expressed, expressions.

225
00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:04,999
What did we need to go through all of this for just to be killed here.

226
00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:12,999
We were sure that gas would come from the ceiling. But, I don't know, they gave us a few pieces of soap.

227
00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:24,966
I, as much as I remember, on the soap it was written "RAB" - R.B.A or H, can't remember. And in Latin letters.

228
00:31:24,967 --> 00:31:37,566
And yet they gave water. We washed, we went outside without clothes. Naked. We walked around on gravel.

229
00:31:37,567 --> 00:31:49,166
This yard, this gravel when we went was a gravel yard which was sharp as shaving razors.

230
00:31:49,167 --> 00:31:53,232
The gravel was like a razor, that's how we stepped on it.

231
00:31:53,233 --> 00:32:03,999
I can't remember how many days we walked around naked, but after a few days they gave us paper bags.

232
00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:14,999
The paper bags, this is what we wore. Later we got clothes, those pyjama.

233
00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:25,399
After a while they divided us to work. I don't know why, how and what, I was taken to the Steinbruch.

234
00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:29,999
To work in the Steinbruch, in the stone quarry.

235
00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:38,299
There we had, there was no purpose what to do with the stones, the purpose was to exterminate us.

236
00:32:38,300 --> 00:32:49,499
We would move the stones from one place to the other, and in the way stood the SS-man, put his foot out so we'd fall.

237
00:32:49,500 --> 00:33:00,999
If there was one small rock on the shoulder, he'd throw me back in to pick another one, or two people would do, would take one big stone and walk.

238
00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:12,132
And the worst was he stood in the middle, the SS-man, and put his foot out, so we'd fall down. Those who fell down, we never saw them again.

239
00:33:12,133 --> 00:33:25,932
After a while, I don't know, I guess they saw I was registered that I studied, ah, Schlosserei, they called it Schlosserei, what I studied in Budzin.

240
00:33:25,933 --> 00:33:41,999
They took me to the Halle, Halle, Halle... Kontrollhalle. I worked there at supervision, the rivets of the sides of the airplane.

241
00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:52,399
My kapo had a red dot, he was probably a communist. He wasn't so bad.

242
00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:59,099
The worst were those who had either green or dark triangles.

243
00:33:59,100 --> 00:34:14,899
It was blue I think. These were, they were Häftlinge, they were prisoners, but they treated me terribly, terrible. Terribly they treated us.

244
00:34:14,900 --> 00:34:23,132
Yes. So I worked there. So, yes.

245
00:34:23,133 --> 00:34:32,832
From there they took me, that my age, because of my age, I don't know, they wrote that I was born in 1928.

246
00:34:32,833 --> 00:34:41,332
They took me to the children barrack, barrack number 19. There was also an SS-man there.

247
00:34:41,333 --> 00:34:45,899
Häftling, not an SS-man, he was a häftling, but German. Was very bad.

248
00:34:45,900 --> 00:34:54,999
He every count, everyone that walked in the barrack, he was with a whip, would hit on the head.

249
00:34:55,000 --> 00:35:00,966
The purpose was to sneak in, so it won't, it wasn't possible to sneak in, not to avoid it.

250
00:35:00,967 --> 00:35:10,032
But before he gave the blow we had to stand on his side, because next to him stood the one who gave the piece of bread.

251
00:35:10,033 --> 00:35:12,532
We only got the piece of bread at night,

252
00:35:12,533 --> 00:35:20,666
With this we walked inside, and I got a place to sleep on the second floor of those Pritschen.

253
00:35:20,667 --> 00:35:29,799
They called it Pritschen. These wooden beds. I was on the second floor.

254
00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:34,166
One time I still wanted to feel the taste, the taste of bread.

255
00:35:34,167 --> 00:35:42,832
I took the bread. Walked with it inside some rag, or hat, I had this hat.

256
00:35:42,833 --> 00:35:48,932
The hat I put in the food box. Whoever didn't have a box didn't get any food.

257
00:35:48,933 --> 00:35:55,766
And I would put this, this hat, I said in the morning I'll wake up and feel the taste of bread.

258
00:35:55,767 --> 00:36:08,999
But unfortunately I woke up in the morning - there was no bread. So I was like this all day without food, only at lunch they gave us soup again.

259
00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:19,166
Here there was some soup - triangle pieces.

260
00:36:19,167 --> 00:36:26,599
It's not like I'd say, it was a little bit similar to sunflower seeds, but they were triangle.

261
00:36:26,600 --> 00:36:37,032
They burnt a lot, burnt a lot, scratched us a lot. We lived from this.

262
00:36:37,033 --> 00:36:39,999
Well, so this, this was block 19.

263
00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:43,499
This German was very bad.

264
00:36:43,500 --> 00:37:01,732
We were there for a while, one day they said "Juden raus". All the Jews out, and we went out in front of block 19, there on the... this was, they did roll-call.

265
00:37:01,733 --> 00:37:09,999
So the Russians came. There were Russians, said "give us", they took my hat, took my coat.

266
00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:16,999
"You don't need anything anymore. They're going, you, the Jews, they're going to kill you."

267
00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:25,099
And this, this, with this, we ate this. This, this, this stayed with us, that here, they're really going to kill us.

268
00:37:25,100 --> 00:37:36,599
Because it was a fact they only took out the Jews. That's how it was, they did, with them the Germans it was five, five rows if I remember correctly.

269
00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:48,499
Five, in every row five. And so it was, he would count. God forbid if someone didn't stand straight. God forbid, he would get, ah, with the whip.

270
00:37:48,500 --> 00:37:58,366
So ah, they took all the Jews from the entire camp, not just block 19. There were more Jews in the blocks, in other blocks.

271
00:37:58,367 --> 00:38:16,666
I was in block 19, of the children. And we started walking. How long - I can't remember. They put us in trains and we started driving. We didn't drive for very long.

272
00:38:16,667 --> 00:38:30,066
American airplanes came and bombed us. Many started escaping, jumping of the car, the train. I jumped too, but I didn't run away.

273
00:38:30,067 --> 00:38:43,166
I hid under the cart. Some ran away, so the Germans stood, the Häftlinge, who had the other points, they were criminals.

274
00:38:43,167 --> 00:38:55,666
Those got weapons, but until this day I remember there was one with half a hand, him with the gun, he stood up, on the cart, and shot.

275
00:38:55,667 --> 00:39:02,199
And shot, killed many people. And then they started gathering us back.

276
00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:15,299
We boarded the trains and started going. Not a long time. Not even a few hours. Maybe one or two hours. Can't remember. Not a long time.

277
00:39:15,300 --> 00:39:24,666
They bombed us again and this was the end of the train. We started. They gathered the... whoever still lived lived.

278
00:39:24,667 --> 00:39:35,999
The gathered us, and organized us in rows of five, and we started walking. This, this was called the Todesmarsch.

279
00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:42,166
The death-march. We walked with no purpose. No water, no food.

280
00:39:42,167 --> 00:39:55,166
We walked from the beginning day and night, so they came to bomb us, so we would go, we tried... They, the Germans, only at night, because they were scared too.

281
00:39:55,167 --> 00:40:04,932
During the day the put us in woods, bu these they... the Germans, SS-men, they weren't really SS-men anymore.

282
00:40:04,933 --> 00:40:11,566
Germans on both sides that walked after, we were in the middle and they were, walked on both sides.

283
00:40:11,567 --> 00:40:19,266
They would shoot, just shoot, and we wouldn't walk anymore. We carried each other, carried each other.

284
00:40:19,267 --> 00:40:29,366
If I held one, I didn't know if he was dead or alive. And the one that held me, he also wasn't sure if I was dead or alive. That's how we walked.

285
00:40:29,367 --> 00:40:45,499
Sometimes we thought that from the distance there's... you can see water. In the meanwhile we got there, it wasn't water. We would lick the, ah, the grass, the earth, the trees we would lick.

286
00:40:45,500 --> 00:40:48,532
There was no water.

287
00:40:48,533 --> 00:41:04,466
I remember one city, can't remember, don't know which city. There were christi... German people were standing with a bathtub, I remember, with uncooked potatoes, and gave us.

288
00:41:04,467 --> 00:41:16,332
But that, whoever ate it died. Fell down, and more, more, they added a bullet and it fell into, into, into the sewer ditches.

289
00:41:16,333 --> 00:41:24,099
On both sides here, on both sides there are ditches, where they would throw the bodies, by the feet he would throw.

290
00:41:24,100 --> 00:41:30,499
And if he shot, sometimes they didn't shoot, just throw him, even if he were alive.

291
00:41:30,500 --> 00:41:38,766
Because they had doom-doom bullets, it was called. Special bullets with ah... it caused wounds.

292
00:41:38,767 --> 00:41:46,999
This was, I actually saw it once, who shot. What this was, this bullet was, doom-doom bullet.

293
00:41:47,000 --> 00:42:04,466
This is what I remember, until this day. This is how we walked. So as I said, during the day we were in the forest, but the last time they put us in a barn of some village, and we were inside.

294
00:42:04,467 --> 00:42:18,699
So we were, we hid in the straw. The German came with a pitchfork, stabbed us to go out, and also stabbed and people were left to die there.

295
00:42:18,700 --> 00:42:30,266
If ah, if I remember correctly, I'm sure it was Zvi Feldman who went outside, with a dead person they took him out.

296
00:42:30,267 --> 00:43:14,199
Fine. One minute I'll be fine.

297
00:43:14,200 --> 00:43:23,166
I say this, I, as far as I can remember, it was Zvi Feldman, he took out a dead person from there, from that barn.

298
00:43:23,167 --> 00:43:37,632
It wasn't a barrack, it was a barn where, where the farmers keep the wheat, the... the wheat, yes, and the straw for the, for their farm animals.

299
00:43:37,633 --> 00:43:49,899
What I did was, I rolled my sleeve and found some seeds there, till this day I can't remember what seeds those were, but I filled, to have, to have.

300
00:43:49,900 --> 00:44:04,799
I know... this, I keep Zvika's too, so he came, he took a person out, came back. He says you should know, I think there's, you can hear tanks up.

301
00:44:04,800 --> 00:44:14,266
We were up and the tanks were down. And he said he thi... hears, and I see there are tanks down. We didn't believe him.

302
00:44:14,267 --> 00:44:25,766
Slowly we started opening the door. We saw there was no German near us. I, there was one German, I tried to kick him, I fell.

303
00:44:25,767 --> 00:44:34,399
Some others tried to kick him, fell. The end, I don't know what those Germans did. Each one, we really saw the tanks.

304
00:44:34,400 --> 00:44:45,866
We started going down, going down the mountain. This was a village, people stripped inside the village, ate all sorts, what they could find.

305
00:44:45,867 --> 00:44:54,266
My first food was pig's food. That was my first food. So we started going down all of us.

306
00:44:54,267 --> 00:45:06,099
The moment we left, there were, I remember, there were Jewish officers coming out of the tanks. At first the tanks told us to go back.

307
00:45:06,100 --> 00:45:18,366
They rushed us back and they drove the tanks. The second stage of the tanks, later, the officer came down and started treating us.

308
00:45:18,367 --> 00:45:25,666
They gave us, I remember, hot noodles in boxes and milk. This I remember, this I ate.

309
00:45:25,667 --> 00:45:39,899
This, with this I think I stayed alive, because all those who ate the fat, the meat, this is what they did in the village, we could see the field black with, with bodies.

310
00:45:39,900 --> 00:45:47,699
Like this for a while there was this happiness, happiness, I don't know, no, I said happiness, it's not true.

311
00:45:47,700 --> 00:45:57,999
I don't know how long we were like this or what we did. We didn't sing, we didn't laugh.

312
00:45:58,000 --> 00:46:10,199
They started, the Jews. the officers started taking care of us. They took us to a village, this village, as far as i can remember it's name was Schwandorf.

313
00:46:10,200 --> 00:46:17,932
Some say another name, I remember Schwandorf. They took us to Schwandorf, it wasn't far.

314
00:46:17,933 --> 00:46:34,666
They put us in some house and let us stay there. I, a few days I was there, or even more, I would sleep next to the door because I was scared and I was sure that any min... they were coming to take me back.

315
00:46:34,667 --> 00:46:51,499
Until I don't know what happened, that I got used that I was free. Like this, this was my liberation. This I think, this is it. This is my liberation.

316
00:46:51,500 --> 00:46:57,432
IV: He told the story of Flossenbürg until the freedom…

317
00:46:57,433 --> 00:47:00,132
AF: I skipped a lot of things.

318
00:47:00,133 --> 00:47:12,099
IV: I told him. In Flossenbürg, he asks, you don't have to answer. What do you think was the worst thing? For you? What was the cruelest thing you saw there?

319
00:47:12,100 --> 00:47:22,566
AF: The cruelest? This was the cruelest, I said, when they told us to strip, we got the soap, looked at the ceiling.

320
00:47:22,567 --> 00:47:38,766
This was the cruelest. That here, we survived Warsaw ghetto, survived Budzin, Bobruisk, Mielez, only to arrive here to be given the gas in Flossenbürg, to be exterminated here.

321
00:47:38,767 --> 00:47:55,999
This, I think, is the most hurtful, the most hurting and the most painful.

322
00:47:56,000 --> 00:48:37,199
IV: So the most cruel thing for him wasn’t that they killed people (???)  The most cruel thing for him (???) from gas, tonight. This is a cruel thing for him.

323
00:48:37,200 --> 00:48:52,566
They also thought why they invested so many efforts in order to survive during the war if the end is so close, and if in a minute they will be in the gas chamber.

324
00:48:52,567 --> 00:48:56,866
Ok, I’ll ask him to continue the freedom.

325
00:48:56,867 --> 00:49:03,932
IV: What he's asking is for you to continue the story from the moment you were liberated until you immigrated to Israel.

326
00:49:03,933 --> 00:49:05,099
AF: I didn't understand what you said.

327
00:49:05,100 --> 00:49:11,499
IV: Continue the story. After you were liberated now, he wants to hear what happened from now until you came to Israel.

328
00:49:11,500 --> 00:49:14,066
AF: Ah... ok, fine.

329
00:49:14,067 --> 00:49:15,232
IV: Ok?

330
00:49:15,233 --> 00:49:18,999
AF: Yes. A little bit longer. A little bit longer we'll wait?

331
00:49:19,000 --> 00:49:19,166
IV: Yes.

332
00:49:19,167 --> 00:49:26,199
AF: A little longer.

333
00:49:26,200 --> 00:49:30,066
I skipped so many things, that I can't remember anymore.

334
00:49:30,067 --> 00:49:33,299
IV: (???)

335
00:49:33,300 --> 00:49:38,432
AF: So from the liberation?

336
00:49:38,433 --> 00:49:40,899
IV: In the room you were in, you laid, on the door.

337
00:49:40,900 --> 00:49:45,699
AF: Yes, yes, ok. So in, so I can continue.

338
00:49:45,700 --> 00:49:59,199
In Schwan... ah, I said in Schwandorf, some say another name, but I remember Schwandorf. A village, it should be, they say it's 50-60 km from here. We walked.

339
00:49:59,200 --> 00:50:10,199
This was, they called it the death march. The death march we didn't make it up, that's what the Germans said, that this is the death march, we'll walk till the end.

340
00:50:10,200 --> 00:50:15,632
This was called till the end, till no one, no one would be left. So they said.

341
00:50:15,633 --> 00:50:30,166
This that... The Germ... that walked on both sides. They didn't co... god forbid, come in between the lines. This they didn't dare, because we could infect them with lice. So they stuck it.

342
00:50:30,167 --> 00:50:37,299
They said this is the death march. This is it. And we did walk a little.

343
00:50:37,300 --> 00:50:54,632
So what, back to Schwandorf. So ah, I wasn't in Schwandorf for a {long} while, but there already in the village we started, the Americans organized us food, also clothes, we could also bath there.

344
00:50:54,633 --> 00:51:01,166
And from Schwandorf, I'll tell the truth.

345
00:51:01,167 --> 00:51:11,566
I said once in one of the camps, don't remember where, I never thought we would be liberated, there would be a different life.

346
00:51:11,567 --> 00:51:24,899
We didn't know. We didn't imagine a different life.

347
00:51:24,900 --> 00:51:45,066
But this, this is a bit different. Here, Schwandorf I was after a few days, we were a few kids together, the same again - Zvika, and some more who were together from Warsaw ghetto.

348
00:51:45,067 --> 00:52:03,732
Rest in peace (???) Chaim Goldreich. We took a horse with a wagon and went to search for Jews. By the time we arrived at Neunburg vorm Wald, in Neunburg vorm Wald we found many Jews.

349
00:52:03,733 --> 00:52:09,632
There we were, it was better there and they were a bit more organized.

350
00:52:09,633 --> 00:52:17,066
They started taking care of us a little bit more, but this, we hadn't started yet, this wasn't enough.

351
00:52:17,067 --> 00:52:27,266
From there, I don't know how long, we went to Frankfurt. Frankfurt area, by Frankfurt, it's called Zeilsheim.

352
00:52:27,267 --> 00:52:42,499
And there they started arriving from the brigade, and started organizing, organizing young people, like the ages of youth like me, and erected a kibbutz.

353
00:52:42,500 --> 00:52:47,832
The called it a kibbutz and we weren't there for a long time.

354
00:52:47,833 --> 00:53:04,199
We arranged a boat, it was called Shampilion. They took us from Zeilsheim, where I met your mother, my wife, Nurit, Nurit Kromwald, from home.

355
00:53:04,200 --> 00:53:19,466
There I met her, her, who was a Auschwitz and Bergen-Belsen survivor.

356
00:53:19,467 --> 00:53:33,499
I remember that there was a Passover Seder, they did to us. And after that we boarded a boat called Shampilion and went to Israel.

357
00:53:33,500 --> 00:53:41,999
To Israel, to Israel this I still, we came legally.

358
00:53:42,000 --> 00:53:52,799
The English, ah, the English took us legally. In Israel there were, there weren't, Israel was Palestine.

359
00:53:52,800 --> 00:53:58,366
No, the English ruled there, but they took us legally.

360
00:53:58,367 --> 00:54:04,999
This is how we went on the Shampilion, can't remember how long. We arrived to Atlit.

361
00:54:05,000 --> 00:54:13,999
I can't remember how long we were in Atlit. Came fro... from Kibbutzim, took us to the youth Aliyah.

362
00:54:14,000 --> 00:54:24,999
Matityahu Shalem came and took us, took us to Ramat Yochanan, including Zvika Feldman.

363
00:54:25,000 --> 00:54:33,199
Took us to Ramat Yochanan to the kibbutz, where we worked... we worked half a day and studied half a day.

364
00:54:33,200 --> 00:54:38,566
Until the war broke out in 1947, when I was taken to the military.

365
00:54:38,567 --> 00:54:51,532
The army found out I worked on aircrafts. They took me to the air force.

366
00:54:51,533 --> 00:55:05,966
IV: A question, of all the things you've been through, what. Not what left the mark, but what was... the hardest, I know? You can say it so.

367
00:55:05,967 --> 00:55:06,666
AF: For me?

368
00:55:06,667 --> 00:55:10,599
IV: What was personally for you the most difficult. Even though he already asked it in a way...

369
00:55:10,600 --> 00:55:17,066
AF: I can't say generally anymore, but personally I can say.

370
00:55:17,067 --> 00:55:34,899
Even while I was among people i still hadn't digested it, I still hadn't managed to digest...

371
00:55:34,900 --> 00:55:36,232
That i'm alone.

372
00:55:36,233 --> 00:55:48,499
There's no one in the family.

373
00:55:48,500 --> 00:56:03,666
There were other difficult moments, when I would open the radio and hear prayer. I would remember home.

374
00:56:03,667 --> 00:56:17,799
But suddenly it came, I had to digest it with thought.

375
00:56:17,800 --> 00:56:32,466
Such a big family, I remained alone.

376
00:56:32,467 --> 00:56:37,866
So ah, I can go on about... marriage.

377
00:56:37,867 --> 00:56:39,632
IV: Say whatever you want.

378
00:56:39,633 --> 00:56:39,999
AF: What?

379
00:56:40,000 --> 00:56:41,532
IV: Say whatever you want.

380
00:56:41,533 --> 00:56:46,799
AF: Yes? A war broke out, they took me to the military.

381
00:56:46,800 --> 00:57:02,499
I was already in the military, but my friendship with Nurit Kromgold, her name was Sonia Kromgold, we became friends, we were very close friends, but I went to the army.

382
00:57:02,500 --> 00:57:14,599
She stayed in the kibbutz. But anyway, we were... She needed a family, I needed a family.

383
00:57:14,600 --> 00:57:28,999
And so it was. In the year 1950 I got married. I got married while I was still in the kibbutz, without anything, without anything for the future in my hand.

384
00:57:29,000 --> 00:57:33,699
But we got married at friends.

385
00:57:33,700 --> 00:57:41,066
She went back to the kibbutz, I went back to the army, because we didn't have where to live.

386
00:57:41,067 --> 00:58:02,999
But slowly I got liberated. I got a job, also my wife Sonia Kromgold, Sonia Fabischewitch, left the kibbutz, found a job, studied psychology, became a special education teacher.

387
00:58:03,000 --> 00:58:09,499
She arranged a spot for me in the same place, same institute. We worked a few years together in the same institute.

388
00:58:09,500 --> 00:58:15,632
Slowly we built ourselves. Built.

389
00:58:15,633 --> 00:58:38,199
We rented a hut, so we had a son. We built a house, we could afford it, we had another son, it's Nachmi that's sitting here, who is taking so good care of me. If it weren't for him I don't think I could've made it here right now.

390
00:58:38,200 --> 00:58:46,132
I, his patience is something... need. Not only him I think.

391
00:58:46,133 --> 00:58:58,632
The entire family suffered from it, from it, from the past, because you can't say we stayed clean.

392
00:58:58,633 --> 00:59:09,632
There's a defect for life and it will stay. It's the suffering, only suffering... the family I raised.

393
00:59:09,633 --> 00:59:33,566
I also have a daughter, that we could afford three children. But as I said, this wound never, as long as my wife, rest in peace, is gone, it hasn't cured yet.

394
00:59:33,567 --> 00:59:55,999
And, and it will probably never heal. The comfort, children, yes, but sometimes we also know we committed injustice to the children, that this generation still has to suffer.

395
00:59:56,000 --> 01:00:07,899
It's called the second generation of Holocaust survivors. It's, this is my opinion, not only me suffering, the first generation suffering.

396
01:00:07,900 --> 01:00:17,999
That we left an inheritance for them to suffer. You can't do a thing, but the suffering remains.

397
01:00:18,000 --> 01:00:25,266
A continuation of a second generation, and I hope, hope, hope that this is how it'll remain.

398
01:00:25,267 --> 01:00:32,399
And I have to thank Nachmi, Kobi, that accompany me here now, here a lot.

399
01:00:32,400 --> 01:00:46,799
Support me a lot. Really thank you. And thank you. Thank you. And what can I say? Here, Flossenbürg must come back.

400
01:00:46,800 --> 01:00:57,632
Flossenbürg wanted to destroy me. I comfort myself. Wanted to destroy me and Avraham lives. Avraham lives.

401
01:00:57,633 --> 01:01:10,999
I don't know in which way I lived, I lived. Lived. Breathed. Worked. Raised childr... family. Again I say thank you very much. To whom? I don't know.

402
01:01:11,000 --> 01:01:28,267
Again I say thank you, I don't know to whom. I didn't know. Thank you.