MA: Today is Saturday 21st of July 2012. On behalf of The Flossenbürg Memorial we are conducting an interview with Avraham Fabischewitsch, who lives in Israel today.
My Name is Michael Aue of the Medienwerkstatt Franken.
IV: I will ask and you'll answer me. Not to the camera. Whatever I ask, you answer me, not the camera, look at me.
AF: Yes, to you.
IV: Yes, we're speaking.
AF: You have to speak louder.
IV: I'll speak louder, ok.
MA: Ok, now in the beginning please ask him, just to tell his name, when he was born, where he was born and maybe a bit about the family and the beginning of his story.
Not just to start with the holocaust thing, just.
IV: Ok, what is your last name, when were you born, and a few words about your family, how it all began.
AF: Ok, so I can, so we'll speak in, in Hebrew, yes?
So my name is Avraham Fabischewitch. I was born near Warsaw, it's called Pruszków. As the Germans invaded they took us to the Warsaw ghetto.
IV: In what year were you born?
AF: I was born in 1926.
IV: What date?
AF: On September 1st, 1926. Ok? So as the Germans invaded, the took us from Pruszków to the Warsaw ghetto.
The father, we were a family of 7: father, mother, I had a brother and three girls, sister. I wasn't the youngest.
After me there was another girl, the youngest sister, who was maybe six. I was, I think, maybe 11 years old, since I didn't celebrate my Bar Mitzva yet.
So they took us, so yes, they took my father to work before we went to the ghetto. My father and brother to work. My brother was older. And me and my mother and my little sister and... they took us to the Warsaw ghetto.
I had two more sisters, so one of them escaped, escaped to the partisans, and one, she would go to, to help father at work.
Her name was, can I say names?
IV: Yes, yes
AF: So it's... father was called Meir. Mother was called Malka. My older sister was called Anja. Then came my brother, his name was Felix.
After Felix there was a sister called Ania. And then me Avraham. Then there was another girl, a little sister, she was maybe 5 or 6, her name was Pola.
Everyone was scattered. The Germans scattered the... Only me, my mother and younger sister Pola were left at home.
The Germans took us and we left to Warsaw ghetto. We took with us what mother gave to each of us, to carry on our backs.
I remember she gave me bed sheets, to cover up. A blanket on the... she gave me.
But when we were about to board the train, to go to Warsaw ghetto, the Germans took me away from my mother. And then I was alone already.
IV: What year was that?
AF: I, I think it was 41. As they, before they closed the ghetto. They didn't close it yet.
When we arrived to the ghetto, I don't know, don't remember. We met mother.
Mother looked for me, she found me. We got some apartment of some family, we had, we found. And we lived on the street, I remember the street, it was called (???), this I remember.
There we lived, and we had a few things that each of us carried with us. We started selling and buying food. Till it ran out. We had nothing to eat anymore.
We were left me, my little sister Ania and mother. We looked for livelihood. So she, so mother set up a tray for me. On it she put.
IV: Matches? Stop. Drink. Stop. Drink something.
If it's difficult for you to talk about this carry on.
A.F.: What?
IV: If it's difficult for you to talk about this, let's go on.
AF: No, I want to. I can talk about this.
IV: Ok.
AF: I can talk about this. She gave me a tray and on it we would put cigarettes, candy, and my little sister was next to me, would do a little, would hold me by the pants.
And I would sing, so they would buy dry cigarettes, not wet. Not wet from the rain. I can still remember the rhyme.
{Sings the rhyme}
What, with that I began. There were criminals, each one, the children who stole from me. They took everything.
I was left with nothing, I got beat up, and this is how my, my trade ended. That I needed to provide for the family.
So we were left the three of us - mother, my little sister and me, and we have no food. We had nothing to eat.
We sold everything we had. I was already 12 maybe.
I started running away from the ghetto to search for food.
How I ran away, there was one train that was the train on which the Poles had to cross the ghetto.
To cross, so while the tram would enter, another would leave. So between them we would escape.
I say "we" in plural, since I wasn't alone, there were more.
The Germans would shoot, but we wouldn't look at it. We would escape. That's how I would go between the Christians and ask for food.
Some threw me, emm, a carrot or a potato or bread.
Sometimes, I remember till this day, a piece of cake. But there were also some who would pour their bedpan on me, pour on me.
I, on the way back it was the same.
I had to hide it here, on my stomach, and again run between the trains, and I brought it home.
And this, this, this was food. Mother would always ask me where I got it from.
So I would always say I found it here, I found it there. I always had an excuse.
So mother found out I was running away, that I was running, and she knew they shot there, so she said: "You, well die, but you won't run away anymore".
I remember it was in the, in the ghetto, on the wall, so the ghetto was closed already, there was a synagogue, it's name was Tłomackie, the synagogue.
There you could bribe the Polish officer and the Jewish one, and there was a hole, pit, I, from there you could go out.
So mother said, "if this is what you do, we have to eat something, and you want to take the risk, at least I'll feel safe, with a quiet heart."
IV: Drink something dad, it's (???)
AF: So she said, "so I'll feel more at ease, safer. Take, I have ten Zloty".
She gave me the ten Zloty.
She said "here, now I'll feel safer. You'll bribe the Polish or Jewish officer and they'll let you through the wall.
As so it was, I passed.
And I passed, and I drove, and Pruszków, where I was born, and there in the tram there was Pruszków and there was Warsaw.
It was very close, 15 minute drive with the tram.
So this is how I traveled with that train.
Germans boarded the train and asked me for documents.
On the document is said Fabischewitsch Adam. That's ok, but they asked me where I live, and I stupidly, I don't know what, I said the truth.
I guess I didn't know how to lie. I said I lived (???) so he immediately said (???). That's, that's the ghetto.
So they took me from the tram and took me to the police. The Germans, there was Gestapo there, in the yard.
No, they went further up, I remember, I climbed stairs, they took me up.
I tried to escape, but I don't know why they didn't shoot me, but they caught me and put me in... a dog's cage.
There they kept me. They kept me for I don't know how long.
But since that moment I didn't see my mother, my family anymore.
From there they took me to a prison, it was called (???), there were many children there.
So, we were 150 children. The grown-ups, there was a wall, and they were shot. They didn't shoot us.
One day they came, they took us out, brought us to the Umschlagplatz.
In the Umschlagplatz they boarded us on a train. It was terrible in the Umschlagplatz, SS-men with dogs bit us, shouted, hits.
And us, we were about 1,700 Warsaw Jews, they put on the train.
In shortcut I, we started going, and we didn't know where. But we went.
And so we went, I don't know how long. I guess more than 10 days, that... And we made it to Belarussia, Belarussia they called it.
And there they let us in, dropped us off there, and there a special gestapo, special clothes, very brutal, very brutal.
That everything... they, if I couldn't jump out of the cart fast I would've been hit with his (???). Or he had special whips, those whips would leave a wound immediately.
That's how they let us into horse-stalls, that the garbage of the horses of the Russians, this was a sign they had just left.
The garbage was still warm, and there they let us in. A long time passes, for a long time we didn't sit, and then, after maybe half an hour, they let us out, held an Appell.
Appell means roll-call, it's a roll call, and they asked me, asked us who wants to go back in Richtung Heimat.
Richtung Heimat means home, who wants to go.
I don't know. I had another friend Shutland.
We said: "Avraham, come, let's stay, we aren't going back home, in Richtung Heimat." They offered us to peel potatos.
Whoever stays would peel potatoes, those who don't want will go home. And so it was.
Us, whoever didn't want to go, they put us back in. We heard how they closed the doors, and they took them.
And after half an hour we heard the shots, and then we got their clothes.
And this is how I was in Babrujsk, I worked there and in the Bauabteilung. Bauabteilung, that means construction.
For, I don't know how long, but we were one transport of 1,700 Warsaw Jews.
Then came another one, another transport like this.
In shortcut, 41 remained. We received one loaf of bread for 14 people and a soup from beet.
And how long we were there I can't remember.
But one day we were sure they would kill us. Out of 3,100, close to 4,000 Warsaw Jews, 41 remained.
They didn't take us to work, but we were inside the camp, but I was taken at some point to warm the water in the kitchen.
The SS-man was called Adolf Eich, Adolf was his name. He knew Yiddish, knew German and knew Polish.
He was a sadist. He gave me a dog to cook, and then he...
Anyway, a favor. He took a loaf of bread and threw it in the pot. And that we ate.
And we lived that way I don't know how long. And this was still good.
All of those who went to clean the bathroom would bring bones from the SS-men kitchen, we would br.... and that I would do.
I would cook and take off the fat, and from this we lived.
Until one clear day, I don't know how, and it came, they came and took us and brought us to Minsk.
Without saying anything, without a word, without anything.
But what they did say, the Germans, was that there are no more Jews, that they are coming back from the Warsaw ghetto uprising.
The SS-men told, to make us happy, so they said "you should know, it's only you. There are no more Jews. We killed all the Jews in Warsaw ghetto".
And that, that, that we knew. That we lived.
Until one day they took us to, to trucks, and brought us to Minsk.
We arrived in Minsk, we saw a lot of Jews, and there I met my friend, who is called Zvi Feldman.
Here sits Kobi, that's his son. And then I met Zvi Feldman and we were together.
In Minsk there were people who came directly, the Germans took them directly from the houses, from the houses, and we came as the savages, who've already been though hell.
We would steal the (???), we lived from that.
We would hide after, after the houses, we were being chased away, so we wouldn't infect them with lice.
Our clothes were white, khaki, with a cross on the back, and here red, red painted.
Like that, so were our clothes. We were a lot, how long, I can't remember how long we were in Minsk.
From Minsk they took us, put me, us, inside. There were Jews there too, German Jews and Russian Jews, and us, a few, from Poland, from Warsaw.
They put us on trains and we went.
But I already had experience in a closed train, for a bit of a bit, otherwise you died.
They put us in, didn't count, just put in as many as fit. They pushed it until the door could close.
I found a crack, down, I remember, I laid down on the floor.
I was skinny, small, and I had a crack with some air. And then everyone was jealous, those who had some bread from home asked me for it, for this spot.
I said ok. I'll give you the spot, give me bread, and this is how it was.
We drove for a while, I can't remember, they brought us to Majdanek.
In Majdanek we were there, it was awful, SS-men with dogs, the dogs bit us.
I don't know how I hid to not get bitten. They were special dogs.
Wolfs you only see on TV, these dogs, and Germans with whips.
Only hitting, not talking, shouting, and the dogs.
And they did, we weren't there for a long time, they did Appell, roll-call again.
But during the Appell this German said "whoever has a trade stand on this side. Those without one stand on that side".
I, I didn't have any trade, neither did Zvi Feldman, rest in peace. We had no trade. We were still children.
We took. Again we took the honest road, I don't know, I've always been honest, I never knew how to lie.
I walked, since I had no trade, so I walked to those without a trade.
And... and again all those without a trade, they put us back in the trains and we started. To the trains and they closed us.
And all those who stayed, many thousands stayed in Majdanek.
I never saw them again. They, they were all burnt there in Majdanek.
We went, they put us on the trains. We weren't a lot of people.
And they brought us to, to Budzin. From Majdanek to Budzin, Poland. Budzin, there we met so many Jews.
Jews. There was an SS-man who was terrible, a murderer.
So they said that we're lucky, we came today and he left yesterday.
So that's how the 4, the 41 of us remained alive.
And we managed. We worked in Budzin.
There, in Budzin, they took us for a while to the Umschlagpla... Umschulung they called it.
Umschulung means, ah, before the wa... to teach someone a trade.
So it's called, it's a school to learn a trade.
Us, in Israel, how is it called? Nevermind.
And they let us learn to file, to work with a chainsaw, and these were Volksdeutsche, they taught us, Volksdeutsche.
And from there, this is how we learned for a long time, and from there the took us to Mielec. In Mielec I got this KL.
And we worked in airplanes in (???), this was a part of the plane where the pilot sat.
There it was also a horrible camp, they would hang people from the hands.
We would go to work in the morning, we could see a row - people hung by their hands. This was, this was something terrible.
And... and we went to work and like this we had to go back.
In Mielec for how long I was, I can't remember. From Mielec they sent us.
From 41 not a lot remained, I think maybe 7. They were also hung there.
And there was a big surface, where they hung people not only by the hands, also. hung.
There was one instance, they hung a person three times it ripped, and in the end they hung him.
In Mielec, when they did this KL, he also said: "If you don't hold tightly, don't cry, don't yell, I will do it more gently. If you yell I'll do it harder."
But it hurt a lot, what he did, with a needle, needle, rudely. He stabbed me, stabbed with this, with a pen. But I survived it.
From Mielec came a command, we never knew when. They never said tomorrow we'll do this or later we'll do that, a plan. We never knew a plan.
They took us, sent us to Wieliczka.
Wieliczka was a salt mine. They didn't take us to work, we didn't do anything, but we also didn't get food.
I don't know what we ate, we ate from each other.
The people who worked in the bathrooms, cleaning the toilettes, this was the best work.
They would bring some food. Whatever they found they would bring and at night we would share it.
We shared. I'm telling you, our group from Bobrujsk that we were together from the Warsaw ghetto, we held ourselves together, all the time together.
Zvika, I remember. We cook it, the bones, whatever they brought.
I can't remember how long we were in Wieliczka. One day again they gathered us in Wieliczka and took us all, put on trains and we went to Flossenbürg.
How long. Should I take a break?
MA: Ok. Yeah.
IV: He told, this is too short. Short story until he got to Floss, where he stopped.
{unverständlich}
MA: Ok, so maybe we take a 30 seconds break, just to drink a little bit and to relax, and…
IV: Take a short break, come back to yourself.
AF: We went to Flossenbürg, how long.
IV: Wait dad, a few minutes. Give them a few minutes. Maybe they need to recover from it.
AF: What?
IV: Stop for a minute... ask the question.
MA: For the camera it’s better…(???)
IV: When you talk, look at me. Look at me.
AF: Ok. Did you ask anything?
IV: What?
AF: Did you ask me something?
IV: No, no no. No. Easy, take a few seconds.
AF: Ok.
IV: Once you can go on.
AF: Here, ah... From Wieliczka they...
IV: One second. You can see they're filming.
AF: What?
IV: One second, I'll see it's actually filming. One second. You want to drink some more dad?
AF: I drank, yes.
MA: Ok. We can continue. We can…
IV: Yeah? Alright, so…
IV: Go on.
AF: Can I go on? We drove, drove. They put us on trains.
Where? We didn't know. And so we went, drove for a long time. But for some time the train actually stood.
That was the worst situation. But all of this, look, we drove. No food, they didn't give food, I don't know from what.
Until this day I ask myself, what did I live on? I was already a Muselmann. I walked on two sticks. They called me a Muselmann already too.
And I would turn the same way, where they were all sent, where the SS called them for freedom.
We stood a long time on the train. The train stood for a long time. We didn't know where.
Only now we know they wanted to bring us to Dachau or to Auschwitz.
Only know we found out.
And afterwards they anyway, we drove, we arrived to Flossenbürg. In Flossenbürg we stood.
They open the doors. The "raus, raus, raus". Yellings, dogs, SS-men, beating. Something "quickly, quickly, jump off the trains quickly."
They were many. So this, I'm talking about people who were more or less, who didn't, there were many who fell down and were shot and stayed.
And there's me, a Muselmann, I still jumped on my feet.
I stayed, but many were killed before their time who didn't, didn't, didn't run fast enough out of the trains.
We got organized. Once again they did an Appell. We started walking, I can't remember how long. In Flossenbürg. I didn't know yet it was called Flossenbürg.
Only when we arrived, by the gate, it said Flossenbürg. We arrived at the gate.
They let us in.
I can't remember if this was, if the one with the violin sat by the door, by the gate, yes, played, there was an orchestra.
That's how we walked in, in the camp. They did some registration and brought us to, it was called Entlausung, Entlausung, Washroom.
They told us to strip. We stripped. We stood by whoever was the barber, they asked who's a barber.
They give him, ah, some machine, and he shaved us.
Shaved us, took off every hair so it won't fall back, and here up left a Läusestraße, it was called.
Läusestraße. This was, a golden road, road, roads. So we walked around naked.
On one side they really sprayed us, on the other they did water.
But truth to be told, as they put us in we said, they told us to strip, we looked at the ceiling and said here, this is the end.
Here, this, they're giving us the gas. There were many who expressed, expressions.
What did we need to go through all of this for just to be killed here.
We were sure that gas would come from the ceiling. But, I don't know, they gave us a few pieces of soap.
I, as much as I remember, on the soap it was written "RAB" - R.B.A or H, can't remember. And in Latin letters.
And yet they gave water. We washed, we went outside without clothes. Naked. We walked around on gravel.
This yard, this gravel when we went was a gravel yard which was sharp as shaving razors.
The gravel was like a razor, that's how we stepped on it.
I can't remember how many days we walked around naked, but after a few days they gave us paper bags.
The paper bags, this is what we wore. Later we got clothes, those pyjama.
After a while they divided us to work. I don't know why, how and what, I was taken to the Steinbruch.
To work in the Steinbruch, in the stone quarry.
There we had, there was no purpose what to do with the stones, the purpose was to exterminate us.
We would move the stones from one place to the other, and in the way stood the SS-man, put his foot out so we'd fall.
If there was one small rock on the shoulder, he'd throw me back in to pick another one, or two people would do, would take one big stone and walk.
And the worst was he stood in the middle, the SS-man, and put his foot out, so we'd fall down. Those who fell down, we never saw them again.
After a while, I don't know, I guess they saw I was registered that I studied, ah, Schlosserei, they called it Schlosserei, what I studied in Budzin.
They took me to the Halle, Halle, Halle... Kontrollhalle. I worked there at supervision, the rivets of the sides of the airplane.
My kapo had a red dot, he was probably a communist. He wasn't so bad.
The worst were those who had either green or dark triangles.
It was blue I think. These were, they were Häftlinge, they were prisoners, but they treated me terribly, terrible. Terribly they treated us.
Yes. So I worked there. So, yes.
From there they took me, that my age, because of my age, I don't know, they wrote that I was born in 1928.
They took me to the children barrack, barrack number 19. There was also an SS-man there.
Häftling, not an SS-man, he was a häftling, but German. Was very bad.
He every count, everyone that walked in the barrack, he was with a whip, would hit on the head.
The purpose was to sneak in, so it won't, it wasn't possible to sneak in, not to avoid it.
But before he gave the blow we had to stand on his side, because next to him stood the one who gave the piece of bread.
We only got the piece of bread at night,
With this we walked inside, and I got a place to sleep on the second floor of those Pritschen.
They called it Pritschen. These wooden beds. I was on the second floor.
One time I still wanted to feel the taste, the taste of bread.
I took the bread. Walked with it inside some rag, or hat, I had this hat.
The hat I put in the food box. Whoever didn't have a box didn't get any food.
And I would put this, this hat, I said in the morning I'll wake up and feel the taste of bread.
But unfortunately I woke up in the morning - there was no bread. So I was like this all day without food, only at lunch they gave us soup again.
Here there was some soup - triangle pieces.
It's not like I'd say, it was a little bit similar to sunflower seeds, but they were triangle.
They burnt a lot, burnt a lot, scratched us a lot. We lived from this.
Well, so this, this was block 19.
This German was very bad.
We were there for a while, one day they said "Juden raus". All the Jews out, and we went out in front of block 19, there on the... this was, they did roll-call.
So the Russians came. There were Russians, said "give us", they took my hat, took my coat.
"You don't need anything anymore. They're going, you, the Jews, they're going to kill you."
And this, this, with this, we ate this. This, this, this stayed with us, that here, they're really going to kill us.
Because it was a fact they only took out the Jews. That's how it was, they did, with them the Germans it was five, five rows if I remember correctly.
Five, in every row five. And so it was, he would count. God forbid if someone didn't stand straight. God forbid, he would get, ah, with the whip.
So ah, they took all the Jews from the entire camp, not just block 19. There were more Jews in the blocks, in other blocks.
I was in block 19, of the children. And we started walking. How long - I can't remember. They put us in trains and we started driving. We didn't drive for very long.
American airplanes came and bombed us. Many started escaping, jumping of the car, the train. I jumped too, but I didn't run away.
I hid under the cart. Some ran away, so the Germans stood, the Häftlinge, who had the other points, they were criminals.
Those got weapons, but until this day I remember there was one with half a hand, him with the gun, he stood up, on the cart, and shot.
And shot, killed many people. And then they started gathering us back.
We boarded the trains and started going. Not a long time. Not even a few hours. Maybe one or two hours. Can't remember. Not a long time.
They bombed us again and this was the end of the train. We started. They gathered the... whoever still lived lived.
The gathered us, and organized us in rows of five, and we started walking. This, this was called the Todesmarsch.
The death-march. We walked with no purpose. No water, no food.
We walked from the beginning day and night, so they came to bomb us, so we would go, we tried... They, the Germans, only at night, because they were scared too.
During the day the put us in woods, bu these they... the Germans, SS-men, they weren't really SS-men anymore.
Germans on both sides that walked after, we were in the middle and they were, walked on both sides.
They would shoot, just shoot, and we wouldn't walk anymore. We carried each other, carried each other.
If I held one, I didn't know if he was dead or alive. And the one that held me, he also wasn't sure if I was dead or alive. That's how we walked.
Sometimes we thought that from the distance there's... you can see water. In the meanwhile we got there, it wasn't water. We would lick the, ah, the grass, the earth, the trees we would lick.
There was no water.
I remember one city, can't remember, don't know which city. There were christi... German people were standing with a bathtub, I remember, with uncooked potatoes, and gave us.
But that, whoever ate it died. Fell down, and more, more, they added a bullet and it fell into, into, into the sewer ditches.
On both sides here, on both sides there are ditches, where they would throw the bodies, by the feet he would throw.
And if he shot, sometimes they didn't shoot, just throw him, even if he were alive.
Because they had doom-doom bullets, it was called. Special bullets with ah... it caused wounds.
This was, I actually saw it once, who shot. What this was, this bullet was, doom-doom bullet.
This is what I remember, until this day. This is how we walked. So as I said, during the day we were in the forest, but the last time they put us in a barn of some village, and we were inside.
So we were, we hid in the straw. The German came with a pitchfork, stabbed us to go out, and also stabbed and people were left to die there.
If ah, if I remember correctly, I'm sure it was Zvi Feldman who went outside, with a dead person they took him out.
Fine. One minute I'll be fine.
I say this, I, as far as I can remember, it was Zvi Feldman, he took out a dead person from there, from that barn.
It wasn't a barrack, it was a barn where, where the farmers keep the wheat, the... the wheat, yes, and the straw for the, for their farm animals.
What I did was, I rolled my sleeve and found some seeds there, till this day I can't remember what seeds those were, but I filled, to have, to have.
I know... this, I keep Zvika's too, so he came, he took a person out, came back. He says you should know, I think there's, you can hear tanks up.
We were up and the tanks were down. And he said he thi... hears, and I see there are tanks down. We didn't believe him.
Slowly we started opening the door. We saw there was no German near us. I, there was one German, I tried to kick him, I fell.
Some others tried to kick him, fell. The end, I don't know what those Germans did. Each one, we really saw the tanks.
We started going down, going down the mountain. This was a village, people stripped inside the village, ate all sorts, what they could find.
My first food was pig's food. That was my first food. So we started going down all of us.
The moment we left, there were, I remember, there were Jewish officers coming out of the tanks. At first the tanks told us to go back.
They rushed us back and they drove the tanks. The second stage of the tanks, later, the officer came down and started treating us.
They gave us, I remember, hot noodles in boxes and milk. This I remember, this I ate.
This, with this I think I stayed alive, because all those who ate the fat, the meat, this is what they did in the village, we could see the field black with, with bodies.
Like this for a while there was this happiness, happiness, I don't know, no, I said happiness, it's not true.
I don't know how long we were like this or what we did. We didn't sing, we didn't laugh.
They started, the Jews. the officers started taking care of us. They took us to a village, this village, as far as i can remember it's name was Schwandorf.
Some say another name, I remember Schwandorf. They took us to Schwandorf, it wasn't far.
They put us in some house and let us stay there. I, a few days I was there, or even more, I would sleep next to the door because I was scared and I was sure that any min... they were coming to take me back.
Until I don't know what happened, that I got used that I was free. Like this, this was my liberation. This I think, this is it. This is my liberation.
IV: He told the story of Flossenbürg until the freedom…
AF: I skipped a lot of things.
IV: I told him. In Flossenbürg, he asks, you don't have to answer. What do you think was the worst thing? For you? What was the cruelest thing you saw there?
AF: The cruelest? This was the cruelest, I said, when they told us to strip, we got the soap, looked at the ceiling.
This was the cruelest. That here, we survived Warsaw ghetto, survived Budzin, Bobruisk, Mielez, only to arrive here to be given the gas in Flossenbürg, to be exterminated here.
This, I think, is the most hurtful, the most hurting and the most painful.
IV: So the most cruel thing for him wasn’t that they killed people (???) The most cruel thing for him (???) from gas, tonight. This is a cruel thing for him.
They also thought why they invested so many efforts in order to survive during the war if the end is so close, and if in a minute they will be in the gas chamber.
Ok, I’ll ask him to continue the freedom.
IV: What he's asking is for you to continue the story from the moment you were liberated until you immigrated to Israel.
AF: I didn't understand what you said.
IV: Continue the story. After you were liberated now, he wants to hear what happened from now until you came to Israel.
AF: Ah... ok, fine.
IV: Ok?
AF: Yes. A little bit longer. A little bit longer we'll wait?
IV: Yes.
AF: A little longer.
I skipped so many things, that I can't remember anymore.
IV: (???)
AF: So from the liberation?
IV: In the room you were in, you laid, on the door.
AF: Yes, yes, ok. So in, so I can continue.
In Schwan... ah, I said in Schwandorf, some say another name, but I remember Schwandorf. A village, it should be, they say it's 50-60 km from here. We walked.
This was, they called it the death march. The death march we didn't make it up, that's what the Germans said, that this is the death march, we'll walk till the end.
This was called till the end, till no one, no one would be left. So they said.
This that... The Germ... that walked on both sides. They didn't co... god forbid, come in between the lines. This they didn't dare, because we could infect them with lice. So they stuck it.
They said this is the death march. This is it. And we did walk a little.
So what, back to Schwandorf. So ah, I wasn't in Schwandorf for a {long} while, but there already in the village we started, the Americans organized us food, also clothes, we could also bath there.
And from Schwandorf, I'll tell the truth.
I said once in one of the camps, don't remember where, I never thought we would be liberated, there would be a different life.
We didn't know. We didn't imagine a different life.
But this, this is a bit different. Here, Schwandorf I was after a few days, we were a few kids together, the same again - Zvika, and some more who were together from Warsaw ghetto.
Rest in peace (???) Chaim Goldreich. We took a horse with a wagon and went to search for Jews. By the time we arrived at Neunburg vorm Wald, in Neunburg vorm Wald we found many Jews.
There we were, it was better there and they were a bit more organized.
They started taking care of us a little bit more, but this, we hadn't started yet, this wasn't enough.
From there, I don't know how long, we went to Frankfurt. Frankfurt area, by Frankfurt, it's called Zeilsheim.
And there they started arriving from the brigade, and started organizing, organizing young people, like the ages of youth like me, and erected a kibbutz.
The called it a kibbutz and we weren't there for a long time.
We arranged a boat, it was called Shampilion. They took us from Zeilsheim, where I met your mother, my wife, Nurit, Nurit Kromwald, from home.
There I met her, her, who was a Auschwitz and Bergen-Belsen survivor.
I remember that there was a Passover Seder, they did to us. And after that we boarded a boat called Shampilion and went to Israel.
To Israel, to Israel this I still, we came legally.
The English, ah, the English took us legally. In Israel there were, there weren't, Israel was Palestine.
No, the English ruled there, but they took us legally.
This is how we went on the Shampilion, can't remember how long. We arrived to Atlit.
I can't remember how long we were in Atlit. Came fro... from Kibbutzim, took us to the youth Aliyah.
Matityahu Shalem came and took us, took us to Ramat Yochanan, including Zvika Feldman.
Took us to Ramat Yochanan to the kibbutz, where we worked... we worked half a day and studied half a day.
Until the war broke out in 1947, when I was taken to the military.
The army found out I worked on aircrafts. They took me to the air force.
IV: A question, of all the things you've been through, what. Not what left the mark, but what was... the hardest, I know? You can say it so.
AF: For me?
IV: What was personally for you the most difficult. Even though he already asked it in a way...
AF: I can't say generally anymore, but personally I can say.
Even while I was among people i still hadn't digested it, I still hadn't managed to digest...
That i'm alone.
There's no one in the family.
There were other difficult moments, when I would open the radio and hear prayer. I would remember home.
But suddenly it came, I had to digest it with thought.
Such a big family, I remained alone.
So ah, I can go on about... marriage.
IV: Say whatever you want.
AF: What?
IV: Say whatever you want.
AF: Yes? A war broke out, they took me to the military.
I was already in the military, but my friendship with Nurit Kromgold, her name was Sonia Kromgold, we became friends, we were very close friends, but I went to the army.
She stayed in the kibbutz. But anyway, we were... She needed a family, I needed a family.
And so it was. In the year 1950 I got married. I got married while I was still in the kibbutz, without anything, without anything for the future in my hand.
But we got married at friends.
She went back to the kibbutz, I went back to the army, because we didn't have where to live.
But slowly I got liberated. I got a job, also my wife Sonia Kromgold, Sonia Fabischewitch, left the kibbutz, found a job, studied psychology, became a special education teacher.
She arranged a spot for me in the same place, same institute. We worked a few years together in the same institute.
Slowly we built ourselves. Built.
We rented a hut, so we had a son. We built a house, we could afford it, we had another son, it's Nachmi that's sitting here, who is taking so good care of me. If it weren't for him I don't think I could've made it here right now.
I, his patience is something... need. Not only him I think.
The entire family suffered from it, from it, from the past, because you can't say we stayed clean.
There's a defect for life and it will stay. It's the suffering, only suffering... the family I raised.
I also have a daughter, that we could afford three children. But as I said, this wound never, as long as my wife, rest in peace, is gone, it hasn't cured yet.
And, and it will probably never heal. The comfort, children, yes, but sometimes we also know we committed injustice to the children, that this generation still has to suffer.
It's called the second generation of Holocaust survivors. It's, this is my opinion, not only me suffering, the first generation suffering.
That we left an inheritance for them to suffer. You can't do a thing, but the suffering remains.
A continuation of a second generation, and I hope, hope, hope that this is how it'll remain.
And I have to thank Nachmi, Kobi, that accompany me here now, here a lot.
Support me a lot. Really thank you. And thank you. Thank you. And what can I say? Here, Flossenbürg must come back.
Flossenbürg wanted to destroy me. I comfort myself. Wanted to destroy me and Avraham lives. Avraham lives.
I don't know in which way I lived, I lived. Lived. Breathed. Worked. Raised childr... family. Again I say thank you very much. To whom? I don't know.
Again I say thank you, I don't know to whom. I didn't know. Thank you.