IV: ...for the interview. I know a lot of them. Out of the books.
MR: Hm. Right.
IV: They have been here before..
MR: Yes, yes.
IV:.. and they told us..
So now, I just know your name. {laughs}
So, that means we should start with the beginning of the story.
Where did you live?
And when the Nazis took you away off... So this...
MR: Well, I was born in Hungary, in a little town in Hungary in 1931.
And ..er.. I guess in April or so the Germans occupied Hungary I believe because they were negotiating with the Allies, and trying to surrender Hungary to the Allies.
And when the Germans came in, my family and I were taken to a ghetto in a city called Sátoraljaújhely.
And we were only there a short time, and from there of course we were taken in cattle cars to Auschwitz.
IV: Can you tell a little bit about the trip, about your family?
How many people went, how many people went on this transport.
How many days you need, how you were treated there.
MR: Well, actually, the.. er, Sáto is very close to Krakau.
And if my memory is correct, the journey only take like over night.
We left late afternoon and following noon time we were in Krakau.
And from there, the train continues to Auschwitz.
And when we arrived in Auschwitz er, instantly,.. we went in cattle cars which held about seventy people.
There were no facilities, there was buckets on the train.
You had to release yourself in these buckets.
Ah, when we got to Auschwitz, I, I got there with my father, my mother and my two younger brothers.
When we got off the train, there was some Polish prisoners who were Jewish.
And they told us in Jewish:
"When they ask you how old you are, tell them you are 15."
I was actually just passed my 13th birthday.
So, when we went up to the so called selection, äh, my fa.. my bro.. my mother and my younger brothers went to one side.
And when they asked me how old I was, I was.. I said I was 15.
So I went to the other side with my father.
And what I remember the first night we were there, I cried because I said I wanted to go with my mother, not knowing where my mother went.
And we were only in Auschwitz a few, a few days really.
And while we were there, you know, they had assemblies.
We had to line up er in three rows.
And there used to be a little game er, how shall I line up?
Shall I line up in back of my father or on the side of my father?
Cause you never knew in which way the lines were cut.
Will it.. gonna be one in the front, or this way.
So anyway, from Auschwitz, we were taken to a place called Kittlitztreben.
Which was near Breslau, it was a subcamp of Groß-Rosen.
And there of course you know I did different work.
I worked in a in a forrest, I built barracks, I er..
At one time, we went to er harvest potatoes, myself and another young kid.
And er.. so we were there until February of 1945.
When the Russians were advancing, they evacuated the camp.
The camp held about 200 prisoners.
And 800 was sick, so they were left behind.
And I left with my father.
IV: You have been still together all the time?
MR: Yes. And in February, it must have been on February 10th when we left.
And we walked er, I guess till sometimes in April.
We went to Dresden, Zwickau, Görlitz, and we got to Buchenwald eh around April 2nd or 3rd something like that.
And while we were there, the, the Americans were advancing.
I guess it was around April 7th 1945.
And then they formed what they called transports.
And there were 1500 people in this transport.
And the only way I remember it cause there is a book called
"The theory and practice of hell" by Eugen Kogon.
And in there, there is a chapter mentioning the fact that this transport left Buchenwald around April 7th 1945.
Er.. I was with my father.
The first day out of Buchenwald, my father's legs stiffened up and he wouldn't walk.
So I carried him on my shoulder except a soldier came along, he pushed him on the ground and he was shot.
And I continued.. This happened the first day we were on the road.
And we walked for about ten more days.
And the last seven we didn't get anything to eat.
So I used to eat grass, rotten potatoes, drink dirty water, and I got very sick.
I came down with dysentery.
Er well I was, if I use my language, er, you know, defecating blood and mucus.
And of course you couldn't stop because if you stopped, they shot you.
So you just did it in your pants and when it dried up, you rubbed it off.
We got to Flossenbürg I guess er, sometimes April 17th, 19th or thereabouts.
IV: You have been walking all the time?
MR: Yes. Yes. We walked from on February 10th till er April 17th, with a few days rest in, in Buchenwald.
Because Buchenwald was liberated April 11th, and we left April 7th.
It was liberated by the American army.
Er, by the time I got to Flossenbürg, I was very sick.
And I recall they used to drag us out to the assembly place, the Appellplatz.
And they used to exhort us to walk to the main gate because there were trucks waiting there.
But of course by this time either I was too sick or too er untrusting of, of the trucks.
So I remained there and they dragged us back to the barracks close to the place there.
And er, there were too many people in Flossenbürg at that time because all the evacuated camps were congregating in Flossenbürg.
And er, so I was in the middle bunk with somebody and the fellow died over the night.
I pushed him out of bed.
And er, April 23rd I was liberated.
But I was very sick.
So, there was a military hospital run by the army.
Maybe a field hospital I guess.
And they got me back to health.
And when I got better, they did not know what to do with me.
So they put me in a hospital in Weiden.
Except I used to get up and go into town and bum around and meet some friends you know whom I met.
Except one morning the doctor, I didn't leave early enough.
So the doctor asked me:
"What's wrong with you?" I said: "Nothing." I said.
"You can't stay here if nothing is wrong with you."
And I guess that's why I wound up in Kloster Indersdorf.
And the rest is as they say is history.
IV: So that means you have been liberated in the camp itself.
MR: Yes.
IV: So everybody who could walk, who.. had to go to the transport.
Just the people who were too sick, they have been left behind there.
MR: Er, I would seem that way.
Because they dragged us out from the barracks.
And they were telling us that..
"Just go to the main gate and there are trucks waiting.
You don't have to walk any more."
But I was really too sick to do, to do that anymore.
So I, I didn't.
And as I said they dragged me back to one of the barracks and er, I was liberated April 23rd 1945.
IV: Can you remember what happened on this day?
What er, what has happened to the soldiers who er, the watchmen who has been with you before?
MR: Er, I guess they, they left, you know when the military was advancing, American military.
They wanted to save their lives, so they just disappeared.
You know because I believe if my memory is correct reading about it, that's what happened to many camps.
You know, the guards just disappeared, they may have changed to civilian clothes and went into the forest because they didn't want to be caught obviously.
IV: So, you've just been telling this story er very.. concluding all this facts.
What about your emotions?
You've been just, you have been 15 you told me.
MR: No, I was, I was 14 when I was liberated.
IV: 14. And you told them that you were 15.
MR: Well I told them when I was in Auschwitz that I was 15 so I wasn't going to the left.
In which case I wouldn't be here to tell you the story.
I went to the right, so I went to, to work.
IV: So when you and your family, when you got on this first transport to Auschwitz, did you know where you were going?
Did you know was Auschwitz was standing for?
MR: Absolutely not. We had no idea.
We had no idea.
IV: And what was the first impression?
So you came there by train.
The doors opened.
I think you saw a lot.
MR: Well you know the first impression was, I come from a little town in Eastern Hungary, you know, a population of maybe 700.
And we came into the Krakau railyard and for me it was humongous you know.
I said "Boah, I never saw something like this."
Then the train continued to Auschwitz and it stopped on the track which I'm sure you have seen pictures of.
And er, they said: "Get out and leave all your baggages behind."
The only thing they allowed you to keep was your er shoes, er your clothing and, and an overcoat and nothing else.
And so I've said earlier, the Jewish prisoners who were collecting the bag, baggages, they said
"When they ask you how old you are, tell them you are 15!".
And of course, I didn't hesitate.
I didn't know why they told me that, but I told them that I was, when I got to the selection point I told them I was 15.
And er, you went to one side with your father.
And my mother and two younger brothers who were 10 and 6 at that time went to the other side.
And of course only later did you find out what happened to them.
IV: So you had no idea, er, what's that it really was, what was going to happen to you.
MR: Non whatsoever.
Because you know Hungary was an ally of Germany during the war.
And of course, nothing was in the Hungarian papers what was happening in Germany obviously.
You know, that was kept a secret.
IV: So and then going to this first working camp, can you tell a little bit, have you some rememberings about er, the conditions of living?
The food, how they treated you, the barracks?
MR: Well er, in the morning, we used to get some Ersatz-coffee I think which was made with someting {shakes his head} you know.
And then on, and then we left for work and on 10:30 we got a sandwich like Wurst sandwich or something.
And at night, you got a quarter of er, sliced, you know a quarter bread from a loaf and a little margarine.
And of course the big meal was on Sunday because we got boiled potatoes and soup with horse meat.
Because I went by the kitchen one day and there were horses' heads sitting on the table.
So we knew what... But we were hungry, so we ate anything you know {laughs}.
And er, well, er, you know er, the barracks were the typical barracks with three bunks up, you know how the outhouse where you had to go.
You got a shower once a month.
And er, you never changed to other clothing.
When you.. after you came in from the shower, they used to delouse you.
You had to spread your arms and they used to spray you with some de... you know delousing stuff you know, white er thing.
And er, they threw you another shirt of somebody else's that supposedly was clean.
And er that was it.
And er, you know it was.. you worked all the time.
And you were always hungry and cold and er.
When somebody tried to escape, we used to stand in attention for hours.
And they caught him, they used to give him fifty lashes.
There used to be a, a dugout where they used to throw the dead bodies which was taken to Groß-Rosen to be cremated.
And er, you know that's what it was, except the camp..
IV: Those, those things you saw.
MR: Yes.
IV: And so er, was there a time er, an idea came up where this road was leading to?
MR: No, no.
There was, there was no.. Er you remember, I was, I was coming on my 14th year you know.
What the hell did I know. I mean we didn't..
You know everyone do.. we wanted to survive of course because on the march from Buchenwald to Flossenbürg er, a lot of people were shot.
And er I used to ask the older people:
"Does it hurt to be shot?"
But I was afraid of pain, so I continued going you know {laughs}.
IV: And your father was with you.
So you were talking about it, he did talk to you, he tried to explain.
I think he was an adult, he should have known..
MR: I don't think anybody really knew.
You know nobody really knew because everything was kept a secret.
We just worked in there and er, you know, you got up in the morning, you worked six days a week as I said.
The big meal was Sunday, we got boiled potatoes.
And er, I guess everyone was clueless so to speak.
You know.
And you know during the march for example from er, from Buchenwald to Flossenbürg, you know we saw er, Russian fighter planes machine-gunning railway stations.
I remember Zwickau being bombed.
And you can see the animals running away from the impact of the bombs.
You could see the bombs fallling from the sky from these planes.
And er, so er, that was.. we kept going.
Hoping that things will be better the next day.
IV: Did you got any informations that er the war was close to, to finish, that the Russians, the Americans were near, or..?
MR: Well er, we didn't really get any direct information.
But you could see, you know, as they were evacuating the camp that something was imminent you know.
Because they used to.. there was a lot of bombing you heard in the distance er.
Actually from, from Kittlitztreben to er Da.. I mean er, Buchenwald, we went to Dresden after it was fire-bombed.
And you know I remember to this day going to a bridge I guess the Elbe is in Dresden.
And you could see the devastation all around you.
So you knew something was happening without realizing what really was happening.
IV: So well you have been a child in this time and er, a part of this time, your father was with you.
You have been not totally alone.
But what happened on this day when you saw they shot your father?
MR: Well, you kept going!
IV: You kept going.
MR: You kept going.
Actually my uncle was in camp with me also but he was left behind and he survived.
And er, and the way I found out about it is er, Zoltán Farkas whom you interviewed earlier.
He was in Indersdorf with us.
And he was going back to Hungary.
And as you, as you well know, a postal communication after, during, after the war was pretty poor.
So I wrote a letter to my uncle er, not knowing whether he was alive or dead.
And I said to David, I said:
"When you get to Hungary, mail this."
And about six weeks later, a good friend of mine that I grew up with, he was around my age, and his father appeared in Ind.. Kloster Indersdorf
with a letter from my uncle which showed my aunt settles in the United States and my brother settles in Palestine.
Because my brother is older, and in September of 1944, he escaped in the underground to Palestine, to Romania, I guess, Turkey and Lebanon, and he got there, I had his address.
And there is, there is another conincidence to this whole story:
when Zoltán came back from Hungary, he coundn't find anything in his home town as his relatives settled in the United States.
So he asked me would I write to my aunt to see if she can find his relatives.
He just gave me a name.
Which I did, and my aunt found his aunt living about 15 blocks where she was living.
And that's how they found their relatives in the United States.
IV: And what do you think in this time er, until the day of liberation, what was the most hard thing for you?
The most terrible thing? The most devastating?
MR: Well er you know, certainly shooting my father was pretty devastating, but er you were always cold and hungry.
You were always cold and hungry und you never knew when you gonna get beat up.
You never knew when something will happen to you.
Although er, the camp itself was not er, policed by the SS. Only the Kommandant was an SS guy. And the assistant.
It was really, I think they were conscientious objectors and some Wehrmacht.
And you know there were decent people.
There was one guard who let me carry his lunch you know those (???) lunch packet.
And he used to give me his leftovers.
You know today I wouldn't eat anybody's leftovers, but I ate those leftovers {laughs}.
You are hungry, you eat.
Whatever comes along the way, you know?
IV: And if there is nothing left, some start to steal it from the others.
MR: Well, I had, I had another good job.
Once, another kid and I er, were pealing carrots in a military kitchen.
So that was a good job, because you ate one and you pealed another one you know.
Especially when they didn't watch you close enough.
IV: So, and maybe you can tell us a little bit of the story of Indersdorf.
How did you get there, and what happened there?
Because that story, I just read some articles, but I don't know much of it.
MR: Well er you know, I must have got to Indersdorf, I would say, August, end of July, August of 1945.
And er, it was run as you know by UNRRA.
And they tried to help us reacclimate to civilian life there you know.
They had teachers there er who..
I was born in Hungary, they had teachers who taught us in Hungarian.
We used to go to movies in a, in military trucks to Munich.
And we used to have little outings.
We went to Konstanz and we used to go to Munich as I said.
And er, at Christmas time, they had a big dinner in the main dining.. there is a main dining room for dinner.
And er everybody had a little gift, I don't remember what it was.
And they had a young Russian girl ended singing, you know entertaining us.
And subsequently during Hanukka, the Jewish holiday, we went to a party in Dachau some place.
And of course I left, I left er Indersdorf in May of 1946 because I got to the States on a military transport, May 22nd 1946.
And we have some photos that I gave to the Holocaust Museum in Washington and so forth.
IV: And so most of people living there is er, I think, being there they recognized they were orphans now.
They were alone most of them.
MR: Yeah. Yes. Yes.
IV: So how was the atmosphere also together with you?
So.. because some people, they say: the day of the liberation was the happiest in my life..
MR: And the saddest.
IV: And some say it is the saddest because they felt totally alone.
MR: Well you know, you were happy, and I didn't have time to be sad because I was very sick.
You know I was just er, in field hospital for about two or three months.
And er, after that er, I used to go, after I got better, I used to go to Weiden with the ambulance drivers.
I was there, you know, I was messed up, I was forteen and a half years old.
But er, I, I think, you know, I truely think we really reacclimated pretty good.
Because I got to the States in 1946, and in 1951, I was drafted into the Marine Corps during the Corean War.
And I think we were very patriotic because most of my friends, even from Indersdorf, served in the military.
IV: In the US.
MR: In the US. Because in all probability if I told them what I went through six years prior to that date, they would have kicked me out, they wouldn't have wanted me.
But we've all, I guess we were all patriotic and we readjusted fairly good
that we were able to go into the military and go to basic training and er, serve our time there.
IV: And going to the war, what did you feel being there?
MR: {Laughs}
IV: That's another story. But..
Well.. You, you know, we didn't, we really even think you know about what we went through prior to that.
We wanted, we wanted to get along with our lifes.
So, you know, we learned English, not like today when you are in the States, you have bilingual Spanish and English.
Er, I went to regular class where they only taught you in English.
And the first semester I was there, in 1947, I got a, a D average.
Because you were forced to learn.
You were forced to learn.
And I wanted to get educated.
And my relatives weren't that well off.
So I went to work when I was 17.
And I went to school at night.
I went to high school three years at night.
I er, served two years in the Marine corps.
And then I went six and half years to undergraduate school and I went one year in graduate school.
So I went to night school ten and a half years.
So you were all busy. You didn't think of something else.
You were too busy working and going to school.
And then studying.
IV: And until now, you have never been here.
I think you have been to Germany before after the war?
MR: I was in Germany once, in Berlin in 1994.
One of my cousins' sons got married in Berlin 1994.
And they persuaded me to go the wedding.
So I met them in Berlin and I spent a week there.
But that's the extent that I have been in Germany since, since I left in May of '46.
IV: And what's the reason you are here now?
Or why did you decide?
MR: Anna twisted my arm.
If I don't come, she gonna shoot me personally. {laughs}
Er, thruthfully if my friends wouldn't have come, I wouldn't be here.
If Erwin Farkas and David Farkas wouldn't be, I wouldn't be here.
Because I met them in Weiden.
And we went up.. all three was in, in Indersdorf.
Otherwise honestly I wouldn't be here.
IV: And what kind of feelings you took with you entering the plane in New York coming back to Germany?
And also to this place, I think, it's different to go to a wedding.
MR: Er, you know, I was, I was er, I didn't have any feelings one way or another.
You know I didn't.. I was scared about it or I was apprehensive, er.
You know 62 years is a long time.
And I was here 62 years ago.
Because I am 77 and I, I left when I was 15.
I left Indersdorf with 15.
I guess I was 14 when I was in Flossenbürg.
So that's a long time.
It's a couple of lifetimes.
And you know, you have to adjust.
You can't go on being depressed about it.
There is nothing you can do about it being depressed.
You have to cope.
I coped then and you have to cope for the rest of your life with it.
Ah, I didn't expect to see what I am seeing here because I remember all the barracks you know.
And I remember the, the assembly place where they dragged me you know to persuade me to go the main gate where trucks were waiting to take us some place else.
What as I said I was too gone.
I couldn't have walked another 200 feet. You know.
IV: So is there anything you can remember here looking around?
MR: I remember nothing.
The only thing I remember is the Appellplatz where they dragged me to.
And I only rembember the barrack I was in.
I remember being in a middle bunk with this old German guy.
I think it was a political prisoner who had a white beard.
I only remember when the Americans came in, and my recollection is, but we can't find it, that I was, I went to see..
I sit with a couple of other inmates in the upper bunk in the corner of the barracks and they filmed us there.
But we can't find it and.. that's what I remember.
Because after that I was so sick that they took me to this field hospital.
I even remember the, the name of the officer.
The medical captain Lewis who was the medical officer.
I remember the nurses who took care of me.
But I never got back to the camp after I went to this field hospital.
You know I went to Weiden, and from Weiden, I went to Kloster Indersdorf.
IV: Hm. You said that you have to try to cope with these things.
So going to the United States er, later on, it was possible for you to talk about this experiences you had, er, with your family, with your friends, or you just tried to forget it?
MR: I didn't ever talk to anything to anyone about it. I just you know..
It was done, there was nothing that could be done about it again.
And I didn't really spoke to anybody.
IV: And did you ever start to talk about it later on in the family or..?
MR: I, I really don't think so.
I may have mentioned a few incidents, you know.
But not the whole story as the one transpired, you know.
You see you're dragging it out to me, I was, I, I repressed all these years, and now you're dragging this whole thing out of me.
IV: Yeah.
MR: So you didn't waste a tape {laughs}.
IV: Thank you very much.
MR: You're welcome.
IV: And I hope it was okay.
MR: It's okay.