1 00:00:00,033 --> 00:00:03,466 FK: I said that eh, that - 2 00:00:03,467 --> 00:00:05,066 IV: Eh, is that okay. 3 00:00:05,067 --> 00:00:06,366 FK: Excuse me? 4 00:00:06,367 --> 00:00:07,499 IV. That's okay. 5 00:00:07,500 --> 00:00:08,432 FK: Yes. 6 00:00:08,433 --> 00:00:13,166 IV: Just a moment, I'm looking for...okay, eh. 7 00:00:13,167 --> 00:00:18,232 We were just talking about the groups and people helping each other. 8 00:00:18,233 --> 00:00:18,899 FK: Yes. 9 00:00:18,900 --> 00:00:22,966 IV: And that survivll was only possible when you had people helping you. 10 00:00:22,967 --> 00:00:27,299 Eh, I read the book by Mr. Muggenthaler. 11 00:00:27,300 --> 00:00:28,666 FK: By who? 12 00:00:28,667 --> 00:00:30,166 IV: Mr. Muggenthaler. 13 00:00:30,167 --> 00:00:34,599 He once interviewed you, many years ago and wrote a book about it. 14 00:00:34,600 --> 00:00:35,166 FK: Yes. 15 00:00:35,167 --> 00:00:41,632 IV: And he also said that you said, eh, that there was something like bartering there. 16 00:00:41,633 --> 00:00:49,999 You also had food that your mother gave you to trade for clothes or something. 17 00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:53,832 Could you speak about this bartering? 18 00:00:53,833 --> 00:01:05,932 FK: Yes...well for example...it was important to look good. 19 00:01:05,933 --> 00:01:14,599 If you didn't look good, you could get slapped all over. 20 00:01:14,600 --> 00:01:27,332 So I gave something to the ....head of the clothes... 21 00:01:27,333 --> 00:01:29,899 IV: Clothes distribution. 22 00:01:29,900 --> 00:01:39,932 FK: Distribution, I think he was a police chief in Budapest 23 00:01:39,933 --> 00:01:58,332 That was someone...who probably had influence, the doctor, the SS doctor... 24 00:01:58,333 --> 00:01:58,999 IV: Schnabel? 25 00:01:59,000 --> 00:02:08,299 FK: Schnabel. He threw me out of the barrack. 26 00:02:08,300 --> 00:02:29,599 He said, eh...we were under constant strain and he threw me out to the quarry. 27 00:02:29,600 --> 00:02:51,499 But I didn't go, the head of the barrack, that was a, a pimp from Berlin. 28 00:02:51,500 --> 00:03:07,599 I thought when I arrived that he was a doctor, in white and so {sneezes}. He 29 00:03:07,600 --> 00:03:08,266 IV: Do you want a... 30 00:03:08,267 --> 00:03:10,032 FK: No, thank you. 31 00:03:10,033 --> 00:03:15,632 He decided that I could stay. 32 00:03:15,633 --> 00:03:20,299 Despite the doctor's decision. 33 00:03:20,300 --> 00:03:37,066 Maybe that was because I gave him some of my mother's food and most importantly, cigarettes 34 00:03:37,067 --> 00:03:46,199 So I stayed there and ... continued to work. 35 00:03:46,200 --> 00:03:59,532 And one time, Schnabel discovered me and said to him: "What's he doing here?" 36 00:03:59,533 --> 00:04:04,332 And he said: "I can use him." 37 00:04:04,333 --> 00:04:08,766 And Schnabel didn't say anything. 38 00:04:08,767 --> 00:04:28,132 They probably had dealings, for example the dead had gold teeth and so on. I don't know what. 39 00:04:28,133 --> 00:04:37,632 So the bartering probably worked. 40 00:04:37,633 --> 00:04:43,066 IV: I heard that there was a camp brothel. 41 00:04:43,067 --> 00:04:48,166 Did you... 42 00:04:48,167 --> 00:04:51,832 Do you remember, did you know about that? 43 00:04:51,833 --> 00:04:54,699 FK: yes, yes, yes, I know about it. 44 00:04:54,700 --> 00:04:58,332 We played a role there. 45 00:04:58,333 --> 00:05:20,499 We put, we put antiseptic on the visitor's penis, yes. 46 00:05:20,500 --> 00:05:25,432 IV: Do you remember who visited this brothel, who were the women? 47 00:05:25,433 --> 00:05:27,199 FK: How the women were? 48 00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:31,066 IV: Who, who they were. Were they prisoners, too? Or were they... 49 00:05:31,067 --> 00:05:40,832 FK: The women were prisoners, from the women's camp. 50 00:05:40,833 --> 00:05:51,566 I remember, one spoke Polish, yes. 51 00:05:51,567 --> 00:06:14,966 I know that one of the leading communists who was there, he probably...he was young, had no or little sexual experience. 52 00:06:14,967 --> 00:06:34,332 So he went there just, uh, eh {laughs} just to get informed, yes... 53 00:06:34,333 --> 00:06:38,899 IV: And was there homosexuality in the camp? 54 00:06:38,900 --> 00:06:39,666 FK: Excuse me? 55 00:06:39,667 --> 00:06:42,332 IV: Was there homosexuality in the camp? Under the... 56 00:06:42,333 --> 00:06:43,232 FK: Hom..? 57 00:06:43,233 --> 00:06:44,799 IV: Homosexuality 58 00:06:44,800 --> 00:06:48,099 IV: Homosexuality. 59 00:06:48,100 --> 00:07:10,699 Yes, those who...who came there as homosexuals, they were promised that they would be released if they got operated. 60 00:07:10,700 --> 00:07:31,432 And that was disastrous, because although it was not a major operation, some died, from the 61 00:07:31,433 --> 00:07:37,999 method and...purity. 62 00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:38,766 IV: Hygiene. 63 00:07:38,767 --> 00:07:40,666 FK: Yes. 64 00:07:40,667 --> 00:07:44,399 IV: And uh, homosexuality in everyday life? 65 00:07:44,400 --> 00:07:44,999 I think you... 66 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:50,532 FK: Oh, yes. I didn't mention it. 67 00:07:50,533 --> 00:08:08,099 The...almost all the criminals were homoexuals in the camp and they had these young Russian boys. 68 00:08:08,100 --> 00:08:11,099 So that for example... 69 00:08:11,100 --> 00:08:12,966 IV: Tell this again... 70 00:08:12,967 --> 00:08:13,966 FK: Yes. 71 00:08:13,967 --> 00:08:17,266 IV: Everyday life and homosexuality. 72 00:08:17,267 --> 00:08:37,899 FK. Yes...yes...the... almost all the criminals, as far as I...were homosexuals in the camp. 73 00:08:37,900 --> 00:08:50,032 Actually, they went into the brothel, to the women. 74 00:08:50,033 --> 00:08:58,166 But they also had objects in their block. 75 00:08:58,167 --> 00:09:02,499 Und they were their assistants. 76 00:09:02,500 --> 00:09:17,799 So a blockman had an assistant, a boy, who often ate too much. 77 00:09:17,800 --> 00:09:47,766 They...were overfed with the non-quality, uh food and they were also their sexual objects. 78 00:09:47,767 --> 00:09:54,166 IV: If you look back on this time in Flossenbürg today 79 00:09:54,167 --> 00:09:57,232 What was the worst thing in Flossenbürg? 80 00:09:57,233 --> 00:10:14,199 FK: The worst thing was the suffering of so many people. 81 00:10:14,200 --> 00:10:19,999 And... 82 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:35,332 Undernourishment and...illness that couldn't be properly treated. 83 00:10:35,333 --> 00:10:54,932 And uh, that it... 84 00:10:54,933 --> 00:11:11,399 The people's suffering and of course the uncertainty about the future. 85 00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:17,932 Hope was of course very important. 86 00:11:17,933 --> 00:11:34,999 IV: Do you think, you were in Flossenbürg for about two years, how did this experience in Flossenbürg, how did it impact your life? 87 00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:39,066 What effect did it have on you? 88 00:11:39,067 --> 00:11:40,099 in your later life? 89 00:11:40,100 --> 00:12:05,332 FK: For me it had, I want to say, mostly affected me in my...education, work, my theoretical, my theoretical system. 90 00:12:05,333 --> 00:12:08,632 Integrative psychotherapy. 91 00:12:08,633 --> 00:12:20,666 It had an influence. Where the group, the function of the group is emphasized. 92 00:12:20,667 --> 00:12:36,099 IV: Could you...There are many people who survived the concentration camps and they repressed this for decades, didn't speak about it. 93 00:12:36,100 --> 00:12:39,466 Not with their wives later, not with their children. 94 00:12:39,467 --> 00:12:40,599 How was that for you? 95 00:12:40,600 --> 00:12:48,199 Could you live the whole time with the memories, or did you also have phases where you pushed them away from you. 96 00:12:48,200 --> 00:13:01,932 FK: N...no. I, I think, I dealt with it normally, from the beginning. 97 00:13:01,933 --> 00:13:30,232 I was able to think about it and have doubts about those people who say that they still constantly feel the impact. 98 00:13:30,233 --> 00:13:40,632 I think I... 99 00:13:40,633 --> 00:13:57,332 developed further without letting it affect my psyche. 100 00:13:57,333 --> 00:14:05,000 IV: Good. Thank you very much.