FK: I said that eh, that -
IV: Eh, is that okay.
FK: Excuse me?
IV. That's okay.
FK: Yes.
IV: Just a moment, I'm looking for...okay, eh.
We were just talking about the groups and people helping each other.
FK: Yes.
IV: And that survivll was only possible when you had people helping you.
Eh, I read the book by Mr. Muggenthaler.
FK: By who?
IV: Mr. Muggenthaler.
He once interviewed you, many years ago and wrote a book about it.
FK: Yes.
IV: And he also said that you said, eh, that there was something like bartering there.
You also had food that your mother gave you to trade for clothes or something.
Could you speak about this bartering?
FK: Yes...well for example...it was important to look good.
If you didn't look good, you could get slapped all over.
So I gave something to the ....head of the clothes...
IV: Clothes distribution.
FK: Distribution, I think he was a police chief in Budapest
That was someone...who probably had influence, the doctor, the SS doctor...
IV: Schnabel?
FK: Schnabel. He threw me out of the barrack.
He said, eh...we were under constant strain and he threw me out to the quarry.
But I didn't go, the head of the barrack, that was a, a pimp from Berlin.
I thought when I arrived that he was a doctor, in white and so {sneezes}. He
IV: Do you want a...
FK: No, thank you.
He decided that I could stay.
Despite the doctor's decision.
Maybe that was because I gave him some of my mother's food and most importantly, cigarettes
So I stayed there and ... continued to work.
And one time, Schnabel discovered me and said to him: "What's he doing here?"
And he said: "I can use him."
And Schnabel didn't say anything.
They probably had dealings, for example the dead had gold teeth and so on. I don't know what.
So the bartering probably worked.
IV: I heard that there was a camp brothel.
Did you...
Do you remember, did you know about that?
FK: yes, yes, yes, I know about it.
We played a role there.
We put, we put antiseptic on the visitor's penis, yes.
IV: Do you remember who visited this brothel, who were the women?
FK: How the women were?
IV: Who, who they were. Were they prisoners, too? Or were they...
FK: The women were prisoners, from the women's camp.
I remember, one spoke Polish, yes.
I know that one of the leading communists who was there, he probably...he was young, had no or little sexual experience.
So he went there just, uh, eh {laughs} just to get informed, yes...
IV: And was there homosexuality in the camp?
FK: Excuse me?
IV: Was there homosexuality in the camp? Under the...
FK: Hom..?
IV: Homosexuality
IV: Homosexuality.
Yes, those who...who came there as homosexuals, they were promised that they would be released if they got operated.
And that was disastrous, because although it was not a major operation, some died, from the
method and...purity.
IV: Hygiene.
FK: Yes.
IV: And uh, homosexuality in everyday life?
I think you...
FK: Oh, yes. I didn't mention it.
The...almost all the criminals were homoexuals in the camp and they had these young Russian boys.
So that for example...
IV: Tell this again...
FK: Yes.
IV: Everyday life and homosexuality.
FK. Yes...yes...the... almost all the criminals, as far as I...were homosexuals in the camp.
Actually, they went into the brothel, to the women.
But they also had objects in their block.
Und they were their assistants.
So a blockman had an assistant, a boy, who often ate too much.
They...were overfed with the non-quality, uh food and they were also their sexual objects.
IV: If you look back on this time in Flossenbürg today
What was the worst thing in Flossenbürg?
FK: The worst thing was the suffering of so many people.
And...
Undernourishment and...illness that couldn't be properly treated.
And uh, that it...
The people's suffering and of course the uncertainty about the future.
Hope was of course very important.
IV: Do you think, you were in Flossenbürg for about two years, how did this experience in Flossenbürg, how did it impact your life?
What effect did it have on you?
in your later life?
FK: For me it had, I want to say, mostly affected me in my...education, work, my theoretical, my theoretical system.
Integrative psychotherapy.
It had an influence. Where the group, the function of the group is emphasized.
IV: Could you...There are many people who survived the concentration camps and they repressed this for decades, didn't speak about it.
Not with their wives later, not with their children.
How was that for you?
Could you live the whole time with the memories, or did you also have phases where you pushed them away from you.
FK: N...no. I, I think, I dealt with it normally, from the beginning.
I was able to think about it and have doubts about those people who say that they still constantly feel the impact.
I think I...
developed further without letting it affect my psyche.
IV: Good. Thank you very much.