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IV: Were they...

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LH: Not at all.

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We didn't speak about it at all. 

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My husband had a terrible fate as well. 

5
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My husband was a doctor and...I've already said this actually. 

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He was married, had a 2 1/2 year old daughter. 

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They were in Theresienstadt and as I already said over time a routine set in there and the children were taken care of.

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One imagines something different but it was a nursery, for preschool children where I worked. 

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So life was somehow bearable is what I want to say.

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Compared to the other camps, Theresienstadt was still...

11
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Yes, and my husband was...one of the last transports in October '44...there were three transports for men...they were the last ones. 

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No more came after that... he was lined up.

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And a week later, another lie, they appealed to women who wanted to join their husbands, the men who had left there on transports...they could volunteer to go.

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And his wife wanted...well, what woman wouldn't want to be with her husband, right?

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Thinking that she could help him and...they'd be together. 

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And she had...family, my husband's parents and his sister really tried to persuade her, said to her: 

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"You have a small child and things are okay here and your child isn't hungry. You must not go, you can't leave. You don't know what will..."

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No, no, no, she wants to go to him. 

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Of course she never saw her husband, went straight to Auschwitz to the gas chambers.

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My husband was in Taucha near Leipzig. 

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He worked there in an underground factory, where parts were made for the V2.

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It was a top secret production.

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Today you don't see anything there. I was there. 

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Eh, the...

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IV: And.. when the two of you were together...You had both had this terrible fate.

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LH: Yes. 

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IV: And you didn't...

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LH: His was really much more terrible. 

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IV: Yes. And you...didn't you talk to each other about it? 

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LH: We didn't speak...We didn't speak to our children about it either.

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Which my son very much resents, still today. 

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IV: And when did you begin to change this?

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LH: Not at all.  

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Not until after the Wall fell, when I was frequently asked, especially by German schools and universities. 

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Then I was traveling a lot and ... I just happened to run into an acquaintance...I also worked a lot as a travel guide, and...

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And then there was this group...I was in Hannover and a met a lady there. 

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She spoke to me, someone who worked for Action Reconciliation.

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A journalist who also worked a lot for Action Reconciliation. 

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And she asked me and then at some point I said "Yes, if you want to come, please do." 

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And we exchanged a few letters and then a letter arrived where she wrote that she was traveling with a tour group to Prague. 

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But she only wanted to go to Prague and asked if she could visit me. 

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And since I guided travel groups too, I wrote her that I would like to meet but she should come separately. 

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Because no tour likes that. He is responsible for someone going away for five days. 

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And that is not a problem for me. She could come privately but it would have been a shame if she paid for the trip and couldn't do everything with them or do nothing with them. 

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And it was not a problem for me. I like going to Prague. 

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And then we spoke on the phone, that was quite short. 

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I arranged theater tickets for a few and so on, and she'd let me know the itinerary so that I could...

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And they were planning to go to Theresienstadt the next day and that struck me because not many German groups go to Theresienstadt. 

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They go to Prague and other places but I was surprised...I just said to her: 

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"So I'll just come to Prague and if you have space for me, I'll come with you to Theresienstadt."

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Since I had been in Theresienstadt for three-quarters of a year, I can describe the experience better than a travel guide from Germany. 

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I had no idea what kind of travel group it was, of course. 

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And that's how it was. 

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I traveled to Prague, I met my daughter in Prague, where she lives. 

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And we made contact on that day and we went to the theater together. 

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IV: {coughs}

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LH: ..the next day we agreed that I would go with them to Theresienstadt, that the tour guide was okay with this. 

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And then I was...he even invited me to breakfast, but I said: "I don't need that."

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So I arrived at the Parkhotel at 7:30 and they had no idea that exactly the collection camp for the transports had been right there where the Parkhotel stood. 

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And a sculptural relief made by Ms. Hošková even hangs there on the front of the hotel.

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Very very impressive. 

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It is gray and gets darker and then, like a procession, people stooped over who simply disappear.

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And there is more black there and she somehow manged to have it placed there after the war and it is still there. 

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And they lived there for five days and didn't know that of course. 

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And then I arrived early in the morning, introduced myself, the tour guide introduced himself too. 

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And I thought I would be able to speak with Ruth along the way. 

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And then we went to the bus to drive to Theresienstadt and he introduced himself briefly and the way it is with introductions, I didn't catch his name. 

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And when we got on the bus, he pushed back the tour guide's chair and said: "Please take a seat Mrs. Hermanovà."

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I said: "I would like to speak to Ruth." 

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He said: "No, You are...you do this professionally, I am sure you know more than I do." 

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So I sat myself down there. 

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And we drove towards Theresienstadt and I said: "let's go...40 km." I said. 

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"There are no...sightseeing attractions here, there is not much to see. I would prefer to tell you something about Theresienstadt, since you are going there. I spent three-quarters of a year there." And then I just told them what I did and so. 

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And then we arrived at the fortifications....I don't know if you were...

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IV: Yes, of course. 

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LH: And I said: "I have to end this here. We are arriving in Theresienstadt. 

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So I went from Theresienstadt to Auschwitz, from Auschwitz to Christianstadt and from Christianstadt to Flossenbürg and from Flossenbürg to Bergen-Belsen."

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And suddenly...you know, as an experienced tour guide, that really woke me up. 

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There was this huge ruckus and discussion and restlessness in the bus. 

80
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And the tour guide sat behind the driver and I turned to him and said: "Did I say something stupid?"

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And he stood up and approached me from behind around my shoulders and said: 

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"No, Mrs. Hermanovà, but you are the person...I am the director of the State Office of Civic Education, and the Memorial in Bergen-Belsen is under my charge."

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I have to say {laughs}, I almost fell off my chair. 

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I had to think back on everything I had said. 

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They were all historians, social workers, educators, so people who knew about it, 

86
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And the professor from Emden, the university of Emden, wrote to me and asked me....

87
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He works...gives social lectures and specialized in this subject.

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And he invited me to the university, asked if I would come. 

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And after this, I was, I don't know how many times, but for a while I was invited to Emden every year. 

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And I was also in Dresden, and in Leipzig and in various cities...in Bonn, I spoke to students in Bonn. 

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IV: So that was the...

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LH: I had 

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IV: ..start of ...

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LH: Where I began. 

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IV: How it began. 

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LH: to speak. 

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Right, because, you know, the first years...this is actually quite interesting. 

98
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The first years when I went to Emden, I always...

99
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At the beginning I always said: "Please don't be afraid to...

100
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I know that you know a lot, that you have been told a lot, that you have watched films and read. 

101
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IV: {clears throat}

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LH:...and so on. 

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But I don't know what you don't know and what you are interested in.

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Do not be afraid to just ask." 

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No one said a word, they stood up and left like this {head down}.

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And in the evening, when we were home, I said to the professor: 

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"I don't know, did I not express myself well or unfriendly or why didn't anyone say anything?"

108
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He said:"They were ashamed." 

109
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That was the first time that they sat across from someone and looked them in the eyes, had to look them in the eyes, someone who experienced that."

110
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They know all of it, but it is something different hearing about it from a living being who experienced it personally and convinced them and saw the number.  

111
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For instance, once came...and strangely, it was also quite typical. 

112
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When I was in Bonn, I was at a high school. 

113
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And then a teacher wanted to me to speak to...I don't know if it was the third grade, second or third grade, and I said: 

114
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"No, I won't do that, these children don't know enough yet and won't be able to process it. 

115
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I would try to say it all simply and clearly for that age group, but I don't think that makes much sense.

116
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That will burden the children and they won't be able to process it."

117
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"No, the children are prepared." And the teacher...

118
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I have to say...

119
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Their hands were raised the whole time because these kids didn't have any inhibitions. 

120
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IV: And no shame? Because they don't feel any guilt. 

121
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LH: As I said, no inhibitiions. 

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IV: Right. 

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LH: And then came one question from this class: 

124
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"Why don't you go to Israel?"

125
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That is unusual that these children ask such intelligent questions. 

126
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IV: Mhm.

127
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LH: "Why don't you go to Israel?"

128
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That affected me..

129
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IV: Mrs. Hermanovà. We have to stop now. It is interesting. for me too, but...

130
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LH: Yes?

131
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IV: I'd like to thank you for the talk. 

132
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LH: That's fine. 

133
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IV: And I think it was a good decision that you decided to do this again. 

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I think it was very pleasant for many people. LH: Yes, you know at my age {laughs}, where I can really...there are fewer and fewer of us...

135
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And I know one woman, for example, she is twelve years younger, she was 12 or 14 years old.  

136
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And she doesn't want to talk at all. 

137
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Not only because she can't speak German, she understands it but she doesn't even want to speak about it in Czech. 

138
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She starts to tremble. 

139
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It is...

140
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Although she survived with her mother, she was in the Hamburg half. 

141
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There were many French there and they saw a small child...a girl there. 

142
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They sent her a piece of chocolate every once in a while or sardines, we could only dream of that. 

143
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So if I told you something that you didn't know before. 

144
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IV: There is always a lot that one doesn't know. 

145
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LH: Because I am sure you know a lot. 

146
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IV: But every story, one...

147
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LH: I...

148
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IV: one knows the theory but then there is the personal experience that someone had. 

149
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LH: As I said, I got through it and now, thank God, I can speak about it. 

150
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And my daughter, that is unusual, my daughter doesn't want to hear anything about it. 

151
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This time she wasn't annoyed...she is usually annoyed when I take on these kinds of engagements. 

152
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But this time she stayed quiet {laughs} because she is very close with Mrs. Miková, she is like her second mother. 

153
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We have been friends for years, many years, and she knew my husband from childhood...

154
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Their parents were friends...the parents of Mrs. Miková and of my husband. 

155
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So they knew each other as children. 

156
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And my daughter is something like her second child {laughs}.