IV: Were they...
LH: Not at all.
We didn't speak about it at all.
My husband had a terrible fate as well.
My husband was a doctor and...I've already said this actually.
He was married, had a 2 1/2 year old daughter.
They were in Theresienstadt and as I already said over time a routine set in there and the children were taken care of.
One imagines something different but it was a nursery, for preschool children where I worked.
So life was somehow bearable is what I want to say.
Compared to the other camps, Theresienstadt was still...
Yes, and my husband was...one of the last transports in October '44...there were three transports for men...they were the last ones.
No more came after that... he was lined up.
And a week later, another lie, they appealed to women who wanted to join their husbands, the men who had left there on transports...they could volunteer to go.
And his wife wanted...well, what woman wouldn't want to be with her husband, right?
Thinking that she could help him and...they'd be together.
And she had...family, my husband's parents and his sister really tried to persuade her, said to her:
"You have a small child and things are okay here and your child isn't hungry. You must not go, you can't leave. You don't know what will..."
No, no, no, she wants to go to him.
Of course she never saw her husband, went straight to Auschwitz to the gas chambers.
My husband was in Taucha near Leipzig.
He worked there in an underground factory, where parts were made for the V2.
It was a top secret production.
Today you don't see anything there. I was there.
Eh, the...
IV: And.. when the two of you were together...You had both had this terrible fate.
LH: Yes.
IV: And you didn't...
LH: His was really much more terrible.
IV: Yes. And you...didn't you talk to each other about it?
LH: We didn't speak...We didn't speak to our children about it either.
Which my son very much resents, still today.
IV: And when did you begin to change this?
LH: Not at all.
Not until after the Wall fell, when I was frequently asked, especially by German schools and universities.
Then I was traveling a lot and ... I just happened to run into an acquaintance...I also worked a lot as a travel guide, and...
And then there was this group...I was in Hannover and a met a lady there.
She spoke to me, someone who worked for Action Reconciliation.
A journalist who also worked a lot for Action Reconciliation.
And she asked me and then at some point I said "Yes, if you want to come, please do."
And we exchanged a few letters and then a letter arrived where she wrote that she was traveling with a tour group to Prague.
But she only wanted to go to Prague and asked if she could visit me.
And since I guided travel groups too, I wrote her that I would like to meet but she should come separately.
Because no tour likes that. He is responsible for someone going away for five days.
And that is not a problem for me. She could come privately but it would have been a shame if she paid for the trip and couldn't do everything with them or do nothing with them.
And it was not a problem for me. I like going to Prague.
And then we spoke on the phone, that was quite short.
I arranged theater tickets for a few and so on, and she'd let me know the itinerary so that I could...
And they were planning to go to Theresienstadt the next day and that struck me because not many German groups go to Theresienstadt.
They go to Prague and other places but I was surprised...I just said to her:
"So I'll just come to Prague and if you have space for me, I'll come with you to Theresienstadt."
Since I had been in Theresienstadt for three-quarters of a year, I can describe the experience better than a travel guide from Germany.
I had no idea what kind of travel group it was, of course.
And that's how it was.
I traveled to Prague, I met my daughter in Prague, where she lives.
And we made contact on that day and we went to the theater together.
IV: {coughs}
LH: ..the next day we agreed that I would go with them to Theresienstadt, that the tour guide was okay with this.
And then I was...he even invited me to breakfast, but I said: "I don't need that."
So I arrived at the Parkhotel at 7:30 and they had no idea that exactly the collection camp for the transports had been right there where the Parkhotel stood.
And a sculptural relief made by Ms. Hošková even hangs there on the front of the hotel.
Very very impressive.
It is gray and gets darker and then, like a procession, people stooped over who simply disappear.
And there is more black there and she somehow manged to have it placed there after the war and it is still there.
And they lived there for five days and didn't know that of course.
And then I arrived early in the morning, introduced myself, the tour guide introduced himself too.
And I thought I would be able to speak with Ruth along the way.
And then we went to the bus to drive to Theresienstadt and he introduced himself briefly and the way it is with introductions, I didn't catch his name.
And when we got on the bus, he pushed back the tour guide's chair and said: "Please take a seat Mrs. Hermanovà."
I said: "I would like to speak to Ruth."
He said: "No, You are...you do this professionally, I am sure you know more than I do."
So I sat myself down there.
And we drove towards Theresienstadt and I said: "let's go...40 km." I said.
"There are no...sightseeing attractions here, there is not much to see. I would prefer to tell you something about Theresienstadt, since you are going there. I spent three-quarters of a year there." And then I just told them what I did and so.
And then we arrived at the fortifications....I don't know if you were...
IV: Yes, of course.
LH: And I said: "I have to end this here. We are arriving in Theresienstadt.
So I went from Theresienstadt to Auschwitz, from Auschwitz to Christianstadt and from Christianstadt to Flossenbürg and from Flossenbürg to Bergen-Belsen."
And suddenly...you know, as an experienced tour guide, that really woke me up.
There was this huge ruckus and discussion and restlessness in the bus.
And the tour guide sat behind the driver and I turned to him and said: "Did I say something stupid?"
And he stood up and approached me from behind around my shoulders and said:
"No, Mrs. Hermanovà, but you are the person...I am the director of the State Office of Civic Education, and the Memorial in Bergen-Belsen is under my charge."
I have to say {laughs}, I almost fell off my chair.
I had to think back on everything I had said.
They were all historians, social workers, educators, so people who knew about it,
And the professor from Emden, the university of Emden, wrote to me and asked me....
He works...gives social lectures and specialized in this subject.
And he invited me to the university, asked if I would come.
And after this, I was, I don't know how many times, but for a while I was invited to Emden every year.
And I was also in Dresden, and in Leipzig and in various cities...in Bonn, I spoke to students in Bonn.
IV: So that was the...
LH: I had
IV: ..start of ...
LH: Where I began.
IV: How it began.
LH: to speak.
Right, because, you know, the first years...this is actually quite interesting.
The first years when I went to Emden, I always...
At the beginning I always said: "Please don't be afraid to...
I know that you know a lot, that you have been told a lot, that you have watched films and read.
IV: {clears throat}
LH:...and so on.
But I don't know what you don't know and what you are interested in.
Do not be afraid to just ask."
No one said a word, they stood up and left like this {head down}.
And in the evening, when we were home, I said to the professor:
"I don't know, did I not express myself well or unfriendly or why didn't anyone say anything?"
He said:"They were ashamed."
That was the first time that they sat across from someone and looked them in the eyes, had to look them in the eyes, someone who experienced that."
They know all of it, but it is something different hearing about it from a living being who experienced it personally and convinced them and saw the number.
For instance, once came...and strangely, it was also quite typical.
When I was in Bonn, I was at a high school.
And then a teacher wanted to me to speak to...I don't know if it was the third grade, second or third grade, and I said:
"No, I won't do that, these children don't know enough yet and won't be able to process it.
I would try to say it all simply and clearly for that age group, but I don't think that makes much sense.
That will burden the children and they won't be able to process it."
"No, the children are prepared." And the teacher...
I have to say...
Their hands were raised the whole time because these kids didn't have any inhibitions.
IV: And no shame? Because they don't feel any guilt.
LH: As I said, no inhibitiions.
IV: Right.
LH: And then came one question from this class:
"Why don't you go to Israel?"
That is unusual that these children ask such intelligent questions.
IV: Mhm.
LH: "Why don't you go to Israel?"
That affected me..
IV: Mrs. Hermanovà. We have to stop now. It is interesting. for me too, but...
LH: Yes?
IV: I'd like to thank you for the talk.
LH: That's fine.
IV: And I think it was a good decision that you decided to do this again.
I think it was very pleasant for many people. LH: Yes, you know at my age {laughs}, where I can really...there are fewer and fewer of us...
And I know one woman, for example, she is twelve years younger, she was 12 or 14 years old.
And she doesn't want to talk at all.
Not only because she can't speak German, she understands it but she doesn't even want to speak about it in Czech.
She starts to tremble.
It is...
Although she survived with her mother, she was in the Hamburg half.
There were many French there and they saw a small child...a girl there.
They sent her a piece of chocolate every once in a while or sardines, we could only dream of that.
So if I told you something that you didn't know before.
IV: There is always a lot that one doesn't know.
LH: Because I am sure you know a lot.
IV: But every story, one...
LH: I...
IV: one knows the theory but then there is the personal experience that someone had.
LH: As I said, I got through it and now, thank God, I can speak about it.
And my daughter, that is unusual, my daughter doesn't want to hear anything about it.
This time she wasn't annoyed...she is usually annoyed when I take on these kinds of engagements.
But this time she stayed quiet {laughs} because she is very close with Mrs. Miková, she is like her second mother.
We have been friends for years, many years, and she knew my husband from childhood...
Their parents were friends...the parents of Mrs. Miková and of my husband.
So they knew each other as children.
And my daughter is something like her second child {laughs}.