1
00:00:02,433 --> 00:00:09,166
SB: 1944 uh..

2
00:00:09,167 --> 00:00:25,032
Yes, when the Russians attacked, it was around August, until August 1945 that was a long time in the camp. 

3
00:00:25,033 --> 00:00:33,199
They sent them away from Plaszow because uh...where they were, uh, I don't know but they left Plaszow. 

4
00:00:33,200 --> 00:00:36,932
But many stayed behind. 

5
00:00:36,933 --> 00:00:45,132
1944...we learned this later...but when we were in Plaszow, we didn't know any of this. 

6
00:00:45,133 --> 00:00:55,399
The Jewish citizen from...Switzerland...I don't remember his name....left for Switzerland...back to Switzerland. 

7
00:00:55,400 --> 00:01:03,666
And when he was there he spoke about what was happening to the food we received. 

8
00:01:03,667 --> 00:01:14,732
And then all the sudden there was an inspection  was carried out from high level officers...SS officers came to Plaszow in the camp. 

9
00:01:14,733 --> 00:01:22,566
In the camp there were 24,000 people...was a large kitchen, a bakery. 

10
00:01:22,567 --> 00:01:30,232
The bread was not brought from Krakow. They baked the bread in the camp. 

11
00:01:30,233 --> 00:01:42,766
The commission came and Amon Göth, the leader...They came in...and Amon Göth was standing below. 

12
00:01:42,767 --> 00:01:48,932
They took a look at the bakery. Was clean, everything was in order. 

13
00:01:48,933 --> 00:01:55,132
One of the officers asked: "How much bread does every inmate get?"

14
00:01:55,133 --> 00:02:04,099
Amon Göth stood below and indicated with his fingers that he should answer two. 

15
00:02:04,100 --> 00:02:08,099
But we only get one bread. 

16
00:02:08,100 --> 00:02:15,066
But the OD man from the bakery said two of course.

17
00:02:15,067 --> 00:02:23,132
And we learned all that after the war. But at the time we didn't know anything. 

18
00:02:23,133 --> 00:02:29,966
But in a short time...I don't remember how long it took. 

19
00:02:29,967 --> 00:02:42,566
But it was a Sunday...Amon Göth shot Chilowicz with his wife. He was the camp elder...a Jew. 

20
00:02:42,567 --> 00:02:48,832
Finkelstein...uh eight people were shot. They were all together. 

21
00:02:48,833 --> 00:02:57,966
Chilowicz was...he knew a lot about what Göth did. So he shot them all. 

22
00:02:57,967 --> 00:03:02,199
Shot them and they lay there. We all had to ...

23
00:03:02,200 --> 00:03:10,899
They took us away from work and we all had to go by and see the...

24
00:03:10,900 --> 00:03:24,699
It was written that they had guns and that they wanted to run away...We knew that wasn't true. 

25
00:03:24,700 --> 00:03:28,566
Still uh...

26
00:03:28,567 --> 00:03:36,932
How long was it...but Amon Göth came to P...we didn't see him. 

27
00:03:36,933 --> 00:03:47,866
But he came without a pistol. With two SS men and we took it.

28
00:03:47,867 --> 00:03:55,466
Later we learned that he was arrested. Schupke took over his spot. 

29
00:03:55,467 --> 00:04:08,399
He was not an officer but he was a mason. He was in the camp then. 

30
00:04:08,400 --> 00:04:14,066
I have to go back a little.

31
00:04:14,067 --> 00:04:24,732
We worked very hard, very hard labor...Because all the barrack parts were very heavy. 

32
00:04:24,733 --> 00:04:34,366
And it all had to be done without a dredger, without a crane like they it do today. We had to do everything. 

33
00:04:34,367 --> 00:04:42,132
The camp was on a bark. 

34
00:04:42,133 --> 00:04:52,966
When the corner of the barrack was on the ground there, the barrack had a length of I think 10 or 12 meters. 

35
00:04:52,967 --> 00:05:00,999
The corner of the barrack was two or two and a half meters above the ground.

36
00:05:01,000 --> 00:05:10,466
Then we had to bang against the ground, the stakes, stakes, right?

37
00:05:10,467 --> 00:05:21,599
With three, three hammers and stood...and so. That was very hard work. 

38
00:05:21,600 --> 00:05:26,399
Groups...each group had 25 men. 

39
00:05:26,400 --> 00:05:29,599
From...

40
00:05:29,600 --> 00:05:42,166
Our Kapo was a German. I was in a group and my two brothers were in the second group, 25 people. 

41
00:05:42,167 --> 00:05:49,766
Someone ran away from by brothers' group. 

42
00:05:49,767 --> 00:05:57,399
When someone ran away, the 25 men were shot. 

43
00:05:57,400 --> 00:06:08,632
Excuse me. When he ran away from the barracks, at night they took 25 men...from the barracks. 

44
00:06:08,633 --> 00:06:15,466
But when he ran away from work, they shot the group. 

45
00:06:15,467 --> 00:06:30,666
And they held a roll call and both my brothers went in...went in. And they were taken to be killed. 

46
00:06:30,667 --> 00:06:34,299
I was at work. 

47
00:06:34,300 --> 00:06:46,132
And the roll-call square was below and the two barracks where they took the people to, to execute them, was below. 

48
00:06:46,133 --> 00:06:54,799
I was up above at work, I decided to go to the the roll call. What would happen to my brothers? What would happen to me?

49
00:06:54,800 --> 00:06:59,966
They were still at the roll call, not in the barracks. 

50
00:06:59,967 --> 00:07:05,366
They saw me coming and gestured with their hands: "Go back, go back! Everything is okay."

51
00:07:05,367 --> 00:07:11,399
I saw them standing there. I knew that the ones who were going to be killed were in the barrack. 

52
00:07:11,400 --> 00:07:19,199
But I saw them standing there...what had I imagined, everything is okay. I went back. 

53
00:07:19,200 --> 00:07:27,832
Later they were led into the barrack and a German told him what had happened. 

54
00:07:27,833 --> 00:07:31,199
The German didn't know. He was at work. 

55
00:07:31,200 --> 00:07:42,232
He went to the roll call square quickly and when he got there ....someone had already told him that his group was in the barrack. 

56
00:07:42,233 --> 00:07:48,966
He was Scheidt...an SS officer. 

57
00:07:48,967 --> 00:07:59,366
The German went up to him...he was actually the one responsible for the barracks construction...Scheidt.

58
00:07:59,367 --> 00:08:05,199
He went up to Scheidt and said: 

59
00:08:05,200 --> 00:08:07,666
He reported and said to him: 

60
00:08:07,667 --> 00:08:12,166
You should...You cannot come to me tomorrow and demand

61
00:08:12,167 --> 00:08:16,632
that I do this and that work because I won't be able to do it."

62
00:08:16,633 --> 00:08:17,966
He asks him: "Why?"

63
00:08:17,967 --> 00:08:23,899
Because my people...are there in the barrack to be killed. 

64
00:08:23,900 --> 00:08:28,966
"What? I need the people, that is out of the question."

65
00:08:28,967 --> 00:08:39,332
And he gave the order that the people should be taken out...and they took 25 others, but 25 were killed. 

66
00:08:39,333 --> 00:08:44,999
And they survived. 

67
00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:55,266
1944 August, September, the camp was liquidated. 

68
00:08:55,267 --> 00:09:04,232
And all the people were sent away. We didn't know at the time...away but I thought to Auschwitz.

69
00:09:04,233 --> 00:09:10,599
Many of these people did not survive.

70
00:09:10,600 --> 00:09:13,732
Yes. 

71
00:09:13,733 --> 00:09:16,166
I come back. 

72
00:09:16,167 --> 00:09:18,999
Women and men were in the camp. 

73
00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:25,332
It was a women's camp and a men's camp. The women were not together with the men. 

74
00:09:25,333 --> 00:09:32,732
But there were also children. There were children...People had come from the ghetto, from Krakow with children. 

75
00:09:32,733 --> 00:09:39,199
And the children were in the, uh, in a barrack. 

76
00:09:39,200 --> 00:09:51,066
It was nineteen uh...I think '44. We didn't know who it was but a doctor arrived. It was Mengele. 

77
00:09:51,067 --> 00:10:00,099
And they did a roll call and everyone had to undress and appear naked. 

78
00:10:00,100 --> 00:10:07,866
And there was a table...SS people sitting there with Mengele. 

79
00:10:07,867 --> 00:10:17,166
And everyone had to go through, uh the commission. It was right, left, right, left. 

80
00:10:17,167 --> 00:10:21,999
There were many who were thin, who were older people. 

81
00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:30,532
Right, left. There were a lot who were sent away from Plaszow and taken to Auschwitz. 

82
00:10:30,533 --> 00:10:34,966
Learned that later...didn't know that then.

83
00:10:34,967 --> 00:10:45,932
And we are standing on the roll-call square...two trucks with children drive by. 

84
00:10:45,933 --> 00:10:52,132
They went into the children's home and took the children. The children were glad, they were driving with a car. 

85
00:10:52,133 --> 00:10:57,866
They sang and waved to their parents with their hands. They were happy to be driving with a car. 

86
00:10:57,867 --> 00:11:04,099
But the parents knew what was happening...ran after them...the SS.

87
00:11:04,100 --> 00:11:05,899
"There, stop!"

88
00:11:05,900 --> 00:11:18,799
They took all the children. None of the children survived. They are all gone. 

89
00:11:18,800 --> 00:11:32,966
When they liquidated the camp, we were uh I think 550 men who were left in Plaszow. Liquidate the camp. 

90
00:11:32,967 --> 00:11:46,132
All the barracks that we had built, we destroyed them and loaded everything on to wagons and sent to Germany. 

91
00:11:46,133 --> 00:11:54,432
The men were left...really we carpenters remained. 

92
00:11:54,433 --> 00:11:58,799
I don't remember how many but women were there too. 

93
00:11:58,800 --> 00:12:05,799
The woman worked uh...the clothes from all the ghettos were brought. 

94
00:12:05,800 --> 00:12:13,032
The clothes...and they sorted the clothes. The whole time there were so many clothes. 

95
00:12:13,033 --> 00:12:22,166
And they...we arrived in Plaszow in 1943. There were already women there sorting the clothes. 

96
00:12:22,167 --> 00:12:28,366
That means uh the good things were packed, not the bad ones of course. 

97
00:12:28,367 --> 00:12:36,332
But the good ones, clothes, shoes and uh...there was also a lot of gold, rings made of gold, everything. 

98
00:12:36,333 --> 00:12:42,666
All that was packed...every, every...I don't remember how often. 

99
00:12:42,667 --> 00:12:51,699
But every time the wagons arrived, two wagons...and loaded with boxes and sent to Germany. 

100
00:12:51,700 --> 00:12:54,232
They were sent to Germany. 

101
00:12:54,233 --> 00:12:57,732
And the women stayed behind. 

102
00:12:57,733 --> 00:13:05,132
In the camp the whole time, we had, liquidate the barracks. 

103
00:13:05,133 --> 00:13:10,499
And they continued to pack the clothes and send them to Germany. 

104
00:13:10,500 --> 00:13:21,666
And they went with us in January 1945, May 14, January 14. 

105
00:13:21,667 --> 00:13:33,999
January 1945, Sunday evening, the camp is...Schupke arrived: "Take what every you can with you. We are going." 

106
00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:42,432
We didn't know where. We didn't know. And we were sent to Auschwitz. 

107
00:13:42,433 --> 00:13:49,766
After Auschwitz we went into the washroom.

108
00:13:49,767 --> 00:13:54,266
We thought, this is it. 

109
00:13:54,267 --> 00:14:02,266
But at the time the crematorium wasn't working. They had blown up the crematorium. 

110
00:14:02,267 --> 00:14:06,099
It was..the prisoners.

111
00:14:06,100 --> 00:14:14,166
The crematorium in Auschwitz was not working...I think since October, November. 

112
00:14:14,167 --> 00:14:21,699
And we arrived in January...We stayed there for two nights. 

113
00:14:21,700 --> 00:14:24,466
And uh...

114
00:14:24,467 --> 00:14:38,932
After two days everyone out of the block and out of the gate and we stood with eight in a row. 

115
00:14:38,933 --> 00:14:45,966
I don't remember how many people but it was a lot of people. It was the death march. 

116
00:14:45,967 --> 00:14:53,866
We arrived with the death march to Gleiwitz...to Gleiwitz uh...

117
00:14:53,867 --> 00:15:07,499
One night we went into a camp...I don't know what it was but it was a camp with barracks. 

118
00:15:07,500 --> 00:15:15,366
But there were good beds, two levels. We had always been in three level beds in the camp...in Plaszow. 

119
00:15:15,367 --> 00:15:20,199
These were two level beds and every room had a stove. 

120
00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:27,032
Who was...the camp was empty. Who was in this camp, we don't know. 

121
00:15:27,033 --> 00:15:32,999
My brother Alec...that was our luck. My brother Alec was out. 

122
00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:40,966
I was with to, to Auschwitz to...to this camp...we traveled the whole night. 

123
00:15:40,967 --> 00:15:46,466
Until the afternoon of the next day. 

124
00:15:46,467 --> 00:15:51,199
Of course with everyone who left Auschwitz.

125
00:15:51,200 --> 00:15:58,499
Whoever could go, went. But anyone who fell, he was shot..on site. Uh...

126
00:15:58,500 --> 00:16:03,766
No one was left alive. Whoever fell was shot. 

127
00:16:03,767 --> 00:16:11,166
And so arriving in this camp my brother started searching.

128
00:16:11,167 --> 00:16:21,499
And he found flour and he found a package of uh, stocking...wool stockings. 

129
00:16:21,500 --> 00:16:27,466
He took it...the flour and the stockings. And there was a stove in the oven. 

130
00:16:27,467 --> 00:16:30,832
He took it...we were not given any food. 

131
00:16:30,833 --> 00:16:38,166
He mixed water with the flour to make a dough and baked it on the stove. 

132
00:16:38,167 --> 00:16:43,599
It wasn't that much flour but I think it was a kilo or two. 

133
00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:51,066
But we had...we were three brothers but we didn't eat alone because our comrades all ate too. 

134
00:16:51,067 --> 00:17:02,599
But the stockings...We went from there to Gleiwitz...the next day. And in Gleiwitz we were in open cars...trucks. 

135
00:17:02,600 --> 00:17:12,899
That was January. Cold. We were cold. In every wagon there was...we could only stand. 

136
00:17:12,900 --> 00:17:18,866
There was no where to sit. 

137
00:17:18,867 --> 00:17:23,332
And we put the socks on our hands. 

138
00:17:23,333 --> 00:17:28,266
And that was good...was...it warmed us. 

139
00:17:28,267 --> 00:17:33,299
But in the wagon very many people died. 

140
00:17:33,300 --> 00:17:41,132
They were from Auschwitz...were..are...

141
00:17:41,133 --> 00:17:47,932
I don't remember how often but when the train came to a halt at a site, 

142
00:17:47,933 --> 00:18:00,899
always at the side door, not at the main door, there was always a commando, an officer..SS man.

143
00:18:00,900 --> 00:18:08,899
He ran and always screamed: "Throw out the dead! Throw out the dead!"

144
00:18:08,900 --> 00:18:14,632
Then the door was opened and the dead were thrown out. 

145
00:18:14,633 --> 00:18:28,132
Then we had more space, so that we... we couldn't lie down but we could sit. Every second one sitting. 

146
00:18:28,133 --> 00:18:36,799
Of course that was a trip without food, without drink. We were not given anything to eat. 

147
00:18:36,800 --> 00:18:43,499
That was ten days...that we traveled with the train. 

148
00:18:43,500 --> 00:18:48,732
We arrived in Oranienburg. 

149
00:18:48,733 --> 00:18:55,666
But after the war I met my comrade and I asked him: "Where were you liberated?"

150
00:18:55,667 --> 00:18:59,132
He told me "In Mauthausen."

151
00:18:59,133 --> 00:19:02,399
I asked him: "Why did you go to Mauthausen?"

152
00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:07,832
Because I knew that he had been with me. "Why did you go to Mauthausen?"

153
00:19:07,833 --> 00:19:13,966
He said: "From Gleiwitz, we went with the train to Mauthausen."

154
00:19:13,967 --> 00:19:19,666
After the war, when I was in Mauthausen, I saw that Mauthausen was overcrowded. 

155
00:19:19,667 --> 00:19:25,299
There were very very many...there was no more space.

156
00:19:25,300 --> 00:19:34,932
Now I understand that they had detached part of the train and the people were taken down to Mauthausen. 

157
00:19:34,933 --> 00:19:44,999
And the rest of us went back through Austria to Oranienburg. Oranienburg is not far from Berlin.

158
00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:57,066
We were...in Oranienburg. There was a large hall. I don't know how many people were there...but very many. Thousands.  

159
00:19:57,067 --> 00:20:04,599
But when the people went in, when a plane flew over, they could hear it. 

160
00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:10,899
We couldn't.. we didn't have the strength to speak. {SB whispers}

161
00:20:10,900 --> 00:20:13,432
This is how we spoke. 

162
00:20:13,433 --> 00:20:22,232
It was, it was, I think we could hold on for much longer. 

163
00:20:22,233 --> 00:20:30,732
And we went in...they brought us to the washroom...We showered. 

164
00:20:30,733 --> 00:20:34,399
I looked at my brother. 

165
00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:43,266
We had been on a train for ten days...that was not an electric locomotive, that was a locomotive with coal. 

166
00:20:43,267 --> 00:20:58,066
Everything that came out of the locomotive fell on us. Our entire body was black...water.

167
00:20:58,067 --> 00:21:06,366
And we came back out and were given a soup. 

168
00:21:06,367 --> 00:21:15,532
The soup was without meat, without fat, without salt, without everything. 

169
00:21:15,533 --> 00:21:22,532
But that was the best soup I have ever eaten in my entire life. 

170
00:21:22,533 --> 00:21:35,266
I've never had such a good soup...I mean tasted, the way we were...this soup tasted good to us.  

171
00:21:35,267 --> 00:21:41,999
We only stayed there a short time. I think a week.

172
00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:50,599
Later, after a week we were put back on a train to Flossenbürg. 

173
00:21:50,600 --> 00:22:03,766
We arrived in Flossenbürg...was terrible. Were two, two barracks from quarantine. 

174
00:22:03,767 --> 00:22:09,199
We went into the barracks, there were bunk beds. 

175
00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:14,932
But normally two people slept in one part.. 

176
00:22:14,933 --> 00:22:21,666
But here there were many people, many sleeping. And one was on the second. 

177
00:22:21,667 --> 00:22:26,999
One had to lie and...

178
00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:43,099
We didn't have any flesh, we were only bones and legs and and uh, this? That uh...

179
00:22:43,100 --> 00:22:45,166
How do you say it?

180
00:22:45,167 --> 00:22:45,932
IV: Ribs. 

181
00:22:45,933 --> 00:22:53,999
SB: Yes. And it was...lying for more than a quarter of an hour on one side, that was hard. 

182
00:22:54,000 --> 00:23:00,732
But turning over was impossible. 

183
00:23:00,733 --> 00:23:05,466
We just stayed. 

184
00:23:05,467 --> 00:23:12,266
One had...I had shoes. Boots, short boots from Plaszow. 

185
00:23:12,267 --> 00:23:18,332
They took away my boots and gave me wood...wood...

186
00:23:18,333 --> 00:23:24,632
They weren't shoes, it was a piece of wood with a leather strip

187
00:23:24,633 --> 00:23:29,766
And I went out of Flossenbürg from the washroom. 

188
00:23:29,767 --> 00:23:39,132
The snow stuck. I wanted the snow that was under the strip. I ended up barefoot. 

189
00:23:39,133 --> 00:23:47,132
So in January I had to stand in the snow for hours. Uh...

190
00:23:47,133 --> 00:23:57,966
It happened, not always, but many times, that I went to the camp elder...the block elder. 

191
00:23:57,967 --> 00:24:06,466
He was a German...but he was also a prisoner. I said to him: "I don't have any shoes."

192
00:24:06,467 --> 00:24:18,232
He allowed me to stand in...not in the barrack inside, but in front at the entrance. The, the floor was made of wood.

193
00:24:18,233 --> 00:24:25,799
I was standing there for so long...The roll call took many hours...very many. 

194
00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:31,066
I don't know but it was very dark. It was night. 

195
00:24:31,067 --> 00:24:40,599
It was January uh the day began at 8:37. It was totally dark. 

196
00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:45,699
After roll call, when the SS man arrived...counting everyone. 

197
00:24:45,700 --> 00:24:54,532
We were given a piece, a slice of bread and a little...back then it was called "coffee."

198
00:24:54,533 --> 00:24:58,999
And we went into the barracks. 

199
00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:06,866
There were so many people in the barracks...my estimate is at least 2,000 people. 

200
00:25:06,867 --> 00:25:15,732
When every one of the 2,000 people says a word quietly, it is very loud. 

201
00:25:15,733 --> 00:25:24,732
The camp...the block elder was always yelling: "Quiet, quiet!"

202
00:25:24,733 --> 00:25:30,832
The people were quiet. But a minute later...two...started talking again. 

203
00:25:30,833 --> 00:25:34,899
A person can't lie the whole time and not speak. 

204
00:25:34,900 --> 00:25:41,132
He threw us out of the block: "Get out, everyone out!"

205
00:25:41,133 --> 00:25:46,232
We stood for a few hours outside. And all that in the winter, in the snow. 

206
00:25:46,233 --> 00:25:54,732
In Flossenbürg it was also, I think, it is very high, it was very, very cold. 

207
00:25:54,733 --> 00:26:02,866
We stayed there, I think, six weeks. Uh, we were in the quarantine for two weeks. 

208
00:26:02,867 --> 00:26:08,366
After two weeks we went into the barracks of the camp. 

209
00:26:08,367 --> 00:26:19,366
All the beds were occupied. And we slept on the floor. The floor was concrete. 

210
00:26:19,367 --> 00:26:27,232
But I don't remember, I think the block was heated...there was a stove inside. 

211
00:26:27,233 --> 00:26:30,332
We slept on the floor there. 

212
00:26:30,333 --> 00:26:38,566
Uh, the food, of course, was a slice of bread and a soup everyday. 

213
00:26:38,567 --> 00:26:42,732
That was, that was...

214
00:26:42,733 --> 00:26:56,166
Everyday, everyday we had the feeling we were slowly losing our strength.  

215
00:26:56,167 --> 00:27:02,966
Later we stayed in Flossenbürg in this...I don't remember, how long. 

216
00:27:02,967 --> 00:27:08,066
But we went from Flossenbürg to Ganacker. 

217
00:27:08,067 --> 00:27:12,732
In Ganacker we arrived, there was nothing. 

218
00:27:12,733 --> 00:27:18,832
There was a big hall and uh..

219
00:27:18,833 --> 00:27:25,666
There were beds too. Two level bunk beds...two men slept in every bed. 

220
00:27:25,667 --> 00:27:35,532
I slept with Roman and my brother slept with Steger. A comrade. 

221
00:27:35,533 --> 00:27:46,066
Was a camp inmate, Hans, a German. He was a good organizer. 

222
00:27:46,067 --> 00:27:54,699
And we saw that there were boards and wood there but there wasn't anything. 

223
00:27:54,700 --> 00:28:01,132
We said to him: "We are carpenters. I see boards there. We could build a kitchen. 

224
00:28:01,133 --> 00:28:03,399
He said" Oh, great, good!"

225
00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:17,432
So we built a kitchen and as thanks from Hans we were given a portion of soup. 

226
00:28:17,433 --> 00:28:24,266
My brother Alek stayed in the kitchen and worked in the kitchen. 

227
00:28:24,267 --> 00:28:39,699
Worked hard. He had to get up at 4 o'clock and cook. Because we went to work at 6.

228
00:28:39,700 --> 00:28:47,499
So he stayed in the kitchen and we went to work. 

229
00:28:47,500 --> 00:29:02,066
When Alek...my brother washed the cauldron, something remained in the cauldron, on the sides. 

230
00:29:02,067 --> 00:29:06,166
He scratched it and ate it and scratched and ate. 

231
00:29:06,167 --> 00:29:18,599
And so he gave us his portion of soup..for his brothers, we should eat it. 

232
00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:28,499
One day Hans asked: "Black boy, who are you taking the soup for?"

233
00:29:28,500 --> 00:29:38,699
My older brother Abraham was also not well but he was...his face was broader. 

234
00:29:38,700 --> 00:29:50,499
I was young, I was 17 years old, my face was small and my neck was like this, as thin as a finger. 

235
00:29:50,500 --> 00:29:55,666
My brother Alec was scared to say to Hans: "I have two brothers."

236
00:29:55,667 --> 00:30:00,266
Because he didn't want him to see Abraham. 

237
00:30:00,267 --> 00:30:05,866
So he said: "I have a brother. I need the soup for my brother." 

238
00:30:05,867 --> 00:30:07,666
"You show him to me tomorrow."

239
00:30:07,667 --> 00:30:09,599
He said: "Okay"

240
00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:14,832
The next day I came into the kitchen. We went in and out of the kitchen. 

241
00:30:14,833 --> 00:30:25,399
Everyone who came from work went into the kitchen...was given a portion of soup. He gave the portion of soup to Hans. 

242
00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:28,132
I went into the kitchen, he looks at me. 

243
00:30:28,133 --> 00:30:30,766
He asked: "Little black guy, is that your brother?" 

244
00:30:30,767 --> 00:30:33,399
He said: "Yes."

245
00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:40,499
Then he gave me the cooking spoon...the others didn't get a soup like that. 

246
00:30:40,500 --> 00:30:48,532
He put the cooking spoon far down into it and gave me a portion of soup...a good portion. 

247
00:30:48,533 --> 00:30:59,566
In the evening, when everything was finished, Hans said: "Your overfed pig" to my brother. 

248
00:30:59,567 --> 00:31:04,699
"You gorge...," but this wasn't true, he didn't eat very much in the kitchen. 

249
00:31:04,700 --> 00:31:08,399
"You gorge in the kitchen and your brother is a muselmann:"

250
00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:15,999
A muselmann was someone who was very very thin. 

251
00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:23,866
My brother said: "Mr Hans, what would you have said if someone came and told you, 

252
00:31:23,867 --> 00:31:30,399
that I was stealing bread in the kitchen and giving it to my brother? What should I do?

253
00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:37,066
Just the portion...I can give him my portion of soup. But the rest I can't give him." 

254
00:31:37,067 --> 00:31:40,332
He said: "Tell him he should stay in the kitchen tomorrow."

255
00:31:40,333 --> 00:31:45,866
That was about three weeks before the liberation. 

256
00:31:45,867 --> 00:31:53,366
But I stayed in the kitchen. Of course, I couldn't eat any more than I was given. 

257
00:31:53,367 --> 00:31:56,999
But I didn't have to go out to work. 

258
00:31:57,000 --> 00:32:03,566
I stayed in the kitchen....peeled potatoes and washed the dishes which the people had eaten on. 

259
00:32:03,567 --> 00:32:13,432
For me that was a, a...I don't know what would have happened if I hadn't stayed in the kitchen. 

260
00:32:13,433 --> 00:32:21,766
And so we were...in this camp..yes, I have a...

261
00:32:21,767 --> 00:32:29,732
How should I say this to you? There was a Kapo. A German, a German...

262
00:32:29,733 --> 00:32:36,832
He was homo. Homosexual. I was young, I didn't know what that was. 

263
00:32:36,833 --> 00:32:43,332
At the roll call he said to me...after the roll call...he had...we were living in a large hall. 

264
00:32:43,333 --> 00:32:49,066
And he had made himself an extra room, from the boards. 

265
00:32:49,067 --> 00:32:54,332
And he had a bed there. He was...well made. 

266
00:32:54,333 --> 00:32:57,266
"After the meal you come to me."

267
00:32:57,267 --> 00:33:03,732
I went there...and he already had a...young boy.

268
00:33:03,733 --> 00:33:10,199
He came out and said: "Sit there. I'll come..." He went away. "I'll be back soon."

269
00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:12,066
"Good."

270
00:33:12,067 --> 00:33:19,832
Asked one of his.. his boys what was going on with him. "What" he asked in Yiddish. "What were you doing there?"

271
00:33:19,833 --> 00:33:22,399
He starts to laugh. 

272
00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:34,200
When he laughed I understood that it was something that was not the way it should be. I went away.