SB: 1944 uh..
Yes, when the Russians attacked, it was around August, until August 1945 that was a long time in the camp.
They sent them away from Plaszow because uh...where they were, uh, I don't know but they left Plaszow.
But many stayed behind.
1944...we learned this later...but when we were in Plaszow, we didn't know any of this.
The Jewish citizen from...Switzerland...I don't remember his name....left for Switzerland...back to Switzerland.
And when he was there he spoke about what was happening to the food we received.
And then all the sudden there was an inspection was carried out from high level officers...SS officers came to Plaszow in the camp.
In the camp there were 24,000 people...was a large kitchen, a bakery.
The bread was not brought from Krakow. They baked the bread in the camp.
The commission came and Amon Göth, the leader...They came in...and Amon Göth was standing below.
They took a look at the bakery. Was clean, everything was in order.
One of the officers asked: "How much bread does every inmate get?"
Amon Göth stood below and indicated with his fingers that he should answer two.
But we only get one bread.
But the OD man from the bakery said two of course.
And we learned all that after the war. But at the time we didn't know anything.
But in a short time...I don't remember how long it took.
But it was a Sunday...Amon Göth shot Chilowicz with his wife. He was the camp elder...a Jew.
Finkelstein...uh eight people were shot. They were all together.
Chilowicz was...he knew a lot about what Göth did. So he shot them all.
Shot them and they lay there. We all had to ...
They took us away from work and we all had to go by and see the...
It was written that they had guns and that they wanted to run away...We knew that wasn't true.
Still uh...
How long was it...but Amon Göth came to P...we didn't see him.
But he came without a pistol. With two SS men and we took it.
Later we learned that he was arrested. Schupke took over his spot.
He was not an officer but he was a mason. He was in the camp then.
I have to go back a little.
We worked very hard, very hard labor...Because all the barrack parts were very heavy.
And it all had to be done without a dredger, without a crane like they it do today. We had to do everything.
The camp was on a bark.
When the corner of the barrack was on the ground there, the barrack had a length of I think 10 or 12 meters.
The corner of the barrack was two or two and a half meters above the ground.
Then we had to bang against the ground, the stakes, stakes, right?
With three, three hammers and stood...and so. That was very hard work.
Groups...each group had 25 men.
From...
Our Kapo was a German. I was in a group and my two brothers were in the second group, 25 people.
Someone ran away from by brothers' group.
When someone ran away, the 25 men were shot.
Excuse me. When he ran away from the barracks, at night they took 25 men...from the barracks.
But when he ran away from work, they shot the group.
And they held a roll call and both my brothers went in...went in. And they were taken to be killed.
I was at work.
And the roll-call square was below and the two barracks where they took the people to, to execute them, was below.
I was up above at work, I decided to go to the the roll call. What would happen to my brothers? What would happen to me?
They were still at the roll call, not in the barracks.
They saw me coming and gestured with their hands: "Go back, go back! Everything is okay."
I saw them standing there. I knew that the ones who were going to be killed were in the barrack.
But I saw them standing there...what had I imagined, everything is okay. I went back.
Later they were led into the barrack and a German told him what had happened.
The German didn't know. He was at work.
He went to the roll call square quickly and when he got there ....someone had already told him that his group was in the barrack.
He was Scheidt...an SS officer.
The German went up to him...he was actually the one responsible for the barracks construction...Scheidt.
He went up to Scheidt and said:
He reported and said to him:
You should...You cannot come to me tomorrow and demand
that I do this and that work because I won't be able to do it."
He asks him: "Why?"
Because my people...are there in the barrack to be killed.
"What? I need the people, that is out of the question."
And he gave the order that the people should be taken out...and they took 25 others, but 25 were killed.
And they survived.
1944 August, September, the camp was liquidated.
And all the people were sent away. We didn't know at the time...away but I thought to Auschwitz.
Many of these people did not survive.
Yes.
I come back.
Women and men were in the camp.
It was a women's camp and a men's camp. The women were not together with the men.
But there were also children. There were children...People had come from the ghetto, from Krakow with children.
And the children were in the, uh, in a barrack.
It was nineteen uh...I think '44. We didn't know who it was but a doctor arrived. It was Mengele.
And they did a roll call and everyone had to undress and appear naked.
And there was a table...SS people sitting there with Mengele.
And everyone had to go through, uh the commission. It was right, left, right, left.
There were many who were thin, who were older people.
Right, left. There were a lot who were sent away from Plaszow and taken to Auschwitz.
Learned that later...didn't know that then.
And we are standing on the roll-call square...two trucks with children drive by.
They went into the children's home and took the children. The children were glad, they were driving with a car.
They sang and waved to their parents with their hands. They were happy to be driving with a car.
But the parents knew what was happening...ran after them...the SS.
"There, stop!"
They took all the children. None of the children survived. They are all gone.
When they liquidated the camp, we were uh I think 550 men who were left in Plaszow. Liquidate the camp.
All the barracks that we had built, we destroyed them and loaded everything on to wagons and sent to Germany.
The men were left...really we carpenters remained.
I don't remember how many but women were there too.
The woman worked uh...the clothes from all the ghettos were brought.
The clothes...and they sorted the clothes. The whole time there were so many clothes.
And they...we arrived in Plaszow in 1943. There were already women there sorting the clothes.
That means uh the good things were packed, not the bad ones of course.
But the good ones, clothes, shoes and uh...there was also a lot of gold, rings made of gold, everything.
All that was packed...every, every...I don't remember how often.
But every time the wagons arrived, two wagons...and loaded with boxes and sent to Germany.
They were sent to Germany.
And the women stayed behind.
In the camp the whole time, we had, liquidate the barracks.
And they continued to pack the clothes and send them to Germany.
And they went with us in January 1945, May 14, January 14.
January 1945, Sunday evening, the camp is...Schupke arrived: "Take what every you can with you. We are going."
We didn't know where. We didn't know. And we were sent to Auschwitz.
After Auschwitz we went into the washroom.
We thought, this is it.
But at the time the crematorium wasn't working. They had blown up the crematorium.
It was..the prisoners.
The crematorium in Auschwitz was not working...I think since October, November.
And we arrived in January...We stayed there for two nights.
And uh...
After two days everyone out of the block and out of the gate and we stood with eight in a row.
I don't remember how many people but it was a lot of people. It was the death march.
We arrived with the death march to Gleiwitz...to Gleiwitz uh...
One night we went into a camp...I don't know what it was but it was a camp with barracks.
But there were good beds, two levels. We had always been in three level beds in the camp...in Plaszow.
These were two level beds and every room had a stove.
Who was...the camp was empty. Who was in this camp, we don't know.
My brother Alec...that was our luck. My brother Alec was out.
I was with to, to Auschwitz to...to this camp...we traveled the whole night.
Until the afternoon of the next day.
Of course with everyone who left Auschwitz.
Whoever could go, went. But anyone who fell, he was shot..on site. Uh...
No one was left alive. Whoever fell was shot.
And so arriving in this camp my brother started searching.
And he found flour and he found a package of uh, stocking...wool stockings.
He took it...the flour and the stockings. And there was a stove in the oven.
He took it...we were not given any food.
He mixed water with the flour to make a dough and baked it on the stove.
It wasn't that much flour but I think it was a kilo or two.
But we had...we were three brothers but we didn't eat alone because our comrades all ate too.
But the stockings...We went from there to Gleiwitz...the next day. And in Gleiwitz we were in open cars...trucks.
That was January. Cold. We were cold. In every wagon there was...we could only stand.
There was no where to sit.
And we put the socks on our hands.
And that was good...was...it warmed us.
But in the wagon very many people died.
They were from Auschwitz...were..are...
I don't remember how often but when the train came to a halt at a site,
always at the side door, not at the main door, there was always a commando, an officer..SS man.
He ran and always screamed: "Throw out the dead! Throw out the dead!"
Then the door was opened and the dead were thrown out.
Then we had more space, so that we... we couldn't lie down but we could sit. Every second one sitting.
Of course that was a trip without food, without drink. We were not given anything to eat.
That was ten days...that we traveled with the train.
We arrived in Oranienburg.
But after the war I met my comrade and I asked him: "Where were you liberated?"
He told me "In Mauthausen."
I asked him: "Why did you go to Mauthausen?"
Because I knew that he had been with me. "Why did you go to Mauthausen?"
He said: "From Gleiwitz, we went with the train to Mauthausen."
After the war, when I was in Mauthausen, I saw that Mauthausen was overcrowded.
There were very very many...there was no more space.
Now I understand that they had detached part of the train and the people were taken down to Mauthausen.
And the rest of us went back through Austria to Oranienburg. Oranienburg is not far from Berlin.
We were...in Oranienburg. There was a large hall. I don't know how many people were there...but very many. Thousands.
But when the people went in, when a plane flew over, they could hear it.
We couldn't.. we didn't have the strength to speak. {SB whispers}
This is how we spoke.
It was, it was, I think we could hold on for much longer.
And we went in...they brought us to the washroom...We showered.
I looked at my brother.
We had been on a train for ten days...that was not an electric locomotive, that was a locomotive with coal.
Everything that came out of the locomotive fell on us. Our entire body was black...water.
And we came back out and were given a soup.
The soup was without meat, without fat, without salt, without everything.
But that was the best soup I have ever eaten in my entire life.
I've never had such a good soup...I mean tasted, the way we were...this soup tasted good to us.
We only stayed there a short time. I think a week.
Later, after a week we were put back on a train to Flossenbürg.
We arrived in Flossenbürg...was terrible. Were two, two barracks from quarantine.
We went into the barracks, there were bunk beds.
But normally two people slept in one part..
But here there were many people, many sleeping. And one was on the second.
One had to lie and...
We didn't have any flesh, we were only bones and legs and and uh, this? That uh...
How do you say it?
IV: Ribs.
SB: Yes. And it was...lying for more than a quarter of an hour on one side, that was hard.
But turning over was impossible.
We just stayed.
One had...I had shoes. Boots, short boots from Plaszow.
They took away my boots and gave me wood...wood...
They weren't shoes, it was a piece of wood with a leather strip
And I went out of Flossenbürg from the washroom.
The snow stuck. I wanted the snow that was under the strip. I ended up barefoot.
So in January I had to stand in the snow for hours. Uh...
It happened, not always, but many times, that I went to the camp elder...the block elder.
He was a German...but he was also a prisoner. I said to him: "I don't have any shoes."
He allowed me to stand in...not in the barrack inside, but in front at the entrance. The, the floor was made of wood.
I was standing there for so long...The roll call took many hours...very many.
I don't know but it was very dark. It was night.
It was January uh the day began at 8:37. It was totally dark.
After roll call, when the SS man arrived...counting everyone.
We were given a piece, a slice of bread and a little...back then it was called "coffee."
And we went into the barracks.
There were so many people in the barracks...my estimate is at least 2,000 people.
When every one of the 2,000 people says a word quietly, it is very loud.
The camp...the block elder was always yelling: "Quiet, quiet!"
The people were quiet. But a minute later...two...started talking again.
A person can't lie the whole time and not speak.
He threw us out of the block: "Get out, everyone out!"
We stood for a few hours outside. And all that in the winter, in the snow.
In Flossenbürg it was also, I think, it is very high, it was very, very cold.
We stayed there, I think, six weeks. Uh, we were in the quarantine for two weeks.
After two weeks we went into the barracks of the camp.
All the beds were occupied. And we slept on the floor. The floor was concrete.
But I don't remember, I think the block was heated...there was a stove inside.
We slept on the floor there.
Uh, the food, of course, was a slice of bread and a soup everyday.
That was, that was...
Everyday, everyday we had the feeling we were slowly losing our strength.
Later we stayed in Flossenbürg in this...I don't remember, how long.
But we went from Flossenbürg to Ganacker.
In Ganacker we arrived, there was nothing.
There was a big hall and uh..
There were beds too. Two level bunk beds...two men slept in every bed.
I slept with Roman and my brother slept with Steger. A comrade.
Was a camp inmate, Hans, a German. He was a good organizer.
And we saw that there were boards and wood there but there wasn't anything.
We said to him: "We are carpenters. I see boards there. We could build a kitchen.
He said" Oh, great, good!"
So we built a kitchen and as thanks from Hans we were given a portion of soup.
My brother Alek stayed in the kitchen and worked in the kitchen.
Worked hard. He had to get up at 4 o'clock and cook. Because we went to work at 6.
So he stayed in the kitchen and we went to work.
When Alek...my brother washed the cauldron, something remained in the cauldron, on the sides.
He scratched it and ate it and scratched and ate.
And so he gave us his portion of soup..for his brothers, we should eat it.
One day Hans asked: "Black boy, who are you taking the soup for?"
My older brother Abraham was also not well but he was...his face was broader.
I was young, I was 17 years old, my face was small and my neck was like this, as thin as a finger.
My brother Alec was scared to say to Hans: "I have two brothers."
Because he didn't want him to see Abraham.
So he said: "I have a brother. I need the soup for my brother."
"You show him to me tomorrow."
He said: "Okay"
The next day I came into the kitchen. We went in and out of the kitchen.
Everyone who came from work went into the kitchen...was given a portion of soup. He gave the portion of soup to Hans.
I went into the kitchen, he looks at me.
He asked: "Little black guy, is that your brother?"
He said: "Yes."
Then he gave me the cooking spoon...the others didn't get a soup like that.
He put the cooking spoon far down into it and gave me a portion of soup...a good portion.
In the evening, when everything was finished, Hans said: "Your overfed pig" to my brother.
"You gorge...," but this wasn't true, he didn't eat very much in the kitchen.
"You gorge in the kitchen and your brother is a muselmann:"
A muselmann was someone who was very very thin.
My brother said: "Mr Hans, what would you have said if someone came and told you,
that I was stealing bread in the kitchen and giving it to my brother? What should I do?
Just the portion...I can give him my portion of soup. But the rest I can't give him."
He said: "Tell him he should stay in the kitchen tomorrow."
That was about three weeks before the liberation.
But I stayed in the kitchen. Of course, I couldn't eat any more than I was given.
But I didn't have to go out to work.
I stayed in the kitchen....peeled potatoes and washed the dishes which the people had eaten on.
For me that was a, a...I don't know what would have happened if I hadn't stayed in the kitchen.
And so we were...in this camp..yes, I have a...
How should I say this to you? There was a Kapo. A German, a German...
He was homo. Homosexual. I was young, I didn't know what that was.
At the roll call he said to me...after the roll call...he had...we were living in a large hall.
And he had made himself an extra room, from the boards.
And he had a bed there. He was...well made.
"After the meal you come to me."
I went there...and he already had a...young boy.
He came out and said: "Sit there. I'll come..." He went away. "I'll be back soon."
"Good."
Asked one of his.. his boys what was going on with him. "What" he asked in Yiddish. "What were you doing there?"
He starts to laugh.
When he laughed I understood that it was something that was not the way it should be. I went away.