1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:01,499
HM: Or so that...

2
00:00:01,500 --> 00:00:07,432
IV: But the question is, since so many think it, the answer yes is good that one...

3
00:00:07,433 --> 00:00:10,066
HM: Yes, one cannot understand. But...

4
00:00:10,067 --> 00:00:20,999
IV: Well, I can understand it since when you arrive somewhere, that you are too weak to be happy...that is understandable. 

5
00:00:21,000 --> 00:00:27,366
HM: I can't understand myself really. When I arrived in Oederan from Auschwitz, I know that I was happy. 

6
00:00:27,367 --> 00:00:30,832
That was a really strong feeling of joy because I knew...

7
00:00:30,833 --> 00:00:31,766
IV:That was probably also the reality...

8
00:00:31,767 --> 00:00:37,832
HM: I knew that death...maybe we were scared that they might kill us. 

9
00:00:37,833 --> 00:00:41,332
But it was not so, not so close. 

10
00:00:41,333 --> 00:00:45,032
IV {to CM}: It is running again, isn't it?

11
00:00:45,033 --> 00:00:46,032
CM: I running.

12
00:00:46,033 --> 00:00:48,332
IV: OK. Yes. 

13
00:00:48,333 --> 00:00:55,366
And I think that then, in the moment, it wasn't really clear what it meant or what was happening.  

14
00:00:55,367 --> 00:00:55,632
HM: Yes.

15
00:00:55,633 --> 00:01:02,132
IV: Because I think, it was still...others were starving, it was probably chaotic too, and many were sick and later died. 

16
00:01:02,133 --> 00:01:07,566
HM: Exactly. It was...and mother was not home. 

17
00:01:07,567 --> 00:01:10,932
I knew that mother was probably not alive...

18
00:01:10,933 --> 00:01:14,732
And the whole family was gone. 

19
00:01:14,733 --> 00:01:19,832
And grandfather had died in Theresienstadt and the house was gone...everything. 

20
00:01:19,833 --> 00:01:24,199
That was not a happy feeling. 

21
00:01:24,200 --> 00:01:35,832
Really, it was only in Oederan that we felt happy because there we sensed at the time that we had escaped death. 

22
00:01:35,833 --> 00:01:41,266
Then we started to fear again that they could also kill us in Oederan. 

23
00:01:41,267 --> 00:01:47,832
And with the...there were also the bombs, when Dresden was bombed we saw that. 

24
00:01:47,833 --> 00:01:53,166
And that was the entire, it was totally red and we

25
00:01:53,167 --> 00:01:59,999
It was possible...when they bombed, a bomb could fall on us too, right?

26
00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:03,832
Because they didn't know who was where. 

27
00:02:03,833 --> 00:02:08,099
And so fear was always present, always. 

28
00:02:08,100 --> 00:02:22,632
But even after the war, that was not a feeling of happiness because everything around us was bad and...

29
00:02:22,633 --> 00:02:26,866
And all the others were no longer alive and...

30
00:02:26,867 --> 00:02:35,732
And we had nothing and no...

31
00:02:35,733 --> 00:02:42,832
We had survived, but we were not...there was no big happy feeling, definitely not. 

32
00:02:42,833 --> 00:02:48,432
I think it was the same with everyone. 

33
00:02:48,433 --> 00:02:51,999
I mean, everyone had...

34
00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:54,366
IV: What happened next when you were in Prague?

35
00:02:54,367 --> 00:02:56,366
How did your life continue?

36
00:02:56,367 --> 00:03:00,766
HM: So I studied in Prague for a time.

37
00:03:00,767 --> 00:03:07,899
Then I didn't want to live in Europe and I sensed that the communists were coming. 

38
00:03:07,900 --> 00:03:15,132
And my uncle...my mother's brother, was living in Palestine. 

39
00:03:15,133 --> 00:03:16,766
I wanted to go to Palestine. 

40
00:03:16,767 --> 00:03:21,232
And then they made it possible for me to go to Palestine. 

41
00:03:21,233 --> 00:03:23,232
I entered into a fake marriage. 

42
00:03:23,233 --> 00:03:30,866
Because people who were in the British Army and had been in Palestine before, were able to return with their families.  

43
00:03:30,867 --> 00:03:44,766
And if a boy didn't have any family, they gave him a wife in a fake marriage, so that he could bring her to Palestine legally. 

44
00:03:44,767 --> 00:03:49,099
So arrangements were made for me -- a fake marriage. 

45
00:03:49,100 --> 00:03:52,632
And I was able to go to Palestine legally. 

46
00:03:52,633 --> 00:03:58,532
And live with my uncle and it was difficult at that time. 

47
00:03:58,533 --> 00:04:04,032
Because that was not Israel, it still belonged to England and...

48
00:04:04,033 --> 00:04:10,032
I worked in the beginning as a cleaner and...

49
00:04:10,033 --> 00:04:12,399
later as a telephone operator. 

50
00:04:12,400 --> 00:04:23,699
Then I worked in the Iraq Petroleum Company and then the war began and we also had...

51
00:04:23,700 --> 00:04:27,032
Then I married and had a child. 

52
00:04:27,033 --> 00:04:29,466
And we didn't have anything. 

53
00:04:29,467 --> 00:04:37,666
We had a room and I had an apartment with one room and someone had their office in the kitchen. 

54
00:04:37,667 --> 00:04:45,932
And we had to work hard because my husband was a soldier and my husband didn't have any money and everything was on cards. 

55
00:04:45,933 --> 00:04:49,732
So life was not so easy in the beginning. 

56
00:04:49,733 --> 00:05:00,999
And a little later we got a different apartment and another child and everything...

57
00:05:01,000 --> 00:05:05,399
My husband worked and everything...

58
00:05:05,400 --> 00:05:06,732
we worked and had...

59
00:05:06,733 --> 00:05:08,732
Then we had...then life was...

60
00:05:08,733 --> 00:05:14,666
And then there was Israel and life began to be normal. 

61
00:05:14,667 --> 00:05:22,632
And there was always war, but still, it was a normal life. 

62
00:05:22,633 --> 00:05:25,632
That's how it was. 

63
00:05:25,633 --> 00:05:36,366
In the beginning I didn't work and then I did work, as a kind of gynastics...from Feldenkrais.

64
00:05:36,367 --> 00:05:38,432
I don't know if people know what that is.

65
00:05:38,433 --> 00:05:39,099
IV: Yes, I know. 

66
00:05:39,100 --> 00:05:41,366
HM: Ok, you know. So I was with Feldenkrais. 

67
00:05:41,367 --> 00:05:44,066
I was very sick then. 

68
00:05:44,067 --> 00:05:46,999
And I was very weak. 

69
00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:52,266
And actually I felt more like I was in a camp then. 

70
00:05:52,267 --> 00:05:55,932
Because I was so very weak and very sick. 

71
00:05:55,933 --> 00:05:59,832
And then I heard about Feldenkrais and studied with him. 

72
00:05:59,833 --> 00:06:05,732
And that helped me a lot and other people wanted me to help them too.

73
00:06:05,733 --> 00:06:11,632
So I offered classes and learned more because I didn't know enough. 

74
00:06:11,633 --> 00:06:20,532
Then I began to work a lot with these Feldenkrais classes and...

75
00:06:20,533 --> 00:06:23,266
Then everything was alright. 

76
00:06:23,267 --> 00:06:28,999
The children grew up and the children studied and married and...

77
00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:32,032
Then it was a normal life. 

78
00:06:32,033 --> 00:06:34,066
IV: I would like to return...

79
00:06:34,067 --> 00:06:34,266
HM: Yes.

80
00:06:34,267 --> 00:06:35,466
IV:  to Czechoslovakia.

81
00:06:35,467 --> 00:06:35,732
HM: Yes 

82
00:06:35,733 --> 00:06:37,799
IV: You said you studied in Prague. 

83
00:06:37,800 --> 00:06:38,666
HM: Yes. 

84
00:06:38,667 --> 00:06:40,999
IV: How did people react?

85
00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:44,032
Was anyone interested in your story?

86
00:06:44,033 --> 00:06:46,899
That you had come from the death camps?

87
00:06:46,900 --> 00:06:51,232
Were you like a hero or like...

88
00:06:51,233 --> 00:06:52,899
Did that make things easier for you?

89
00:06:52,900 --> 00:06:53,966
HM: No, no!

90
00:06:53,967 --> 00:06:55,732
Not at the university. 

91
00:06:55,733 --> 00:07:01,699
At the university I was just one of...so many other students. 

92
00:07:01,700 --> 00:07:02,766
I was already...

93
00:07:02,767 --> 00:07:05,166
But at the university it was easier. 

94
00:07:05,167 --> 00:07:08,899
You only learn there was you find interesting and...

95
00:07:08,900 --> 00:07:12,799
I had to take the exams just like everyone else. 

96
00:07:12,800 --> 00:07:16,666
No, that was just like the others, that was...

97
00:07:16,667 --> 00:07:21,399
IV: And how was the attitude in Czechoslovakia towards these Jewish Holocaust survivors? 

98
00:07:21,400 --> 00:07:23,332
Among the population. 

99
00:07:23,333 --> 00:07:24,732
Could one speak about it?

100
00:07:24,733 --> 00:07:27,399
Did the people want to know about these fates?

101
00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:32,966
HM: They had...the Czechs had a bad life too.

102
00:07:32,967 --> 00:07:44,899
There were also...the resistance and many people were...how is it called..in prison...

103
00:07:44,900 --> 00:07:45,666
IV: Prison. 

104
00:07:45,667 --> 00:07:46,899
HM:...in prison.

105
00:07:46,900 --> 00:07:53,399
And they were also always afraid.  

106
00:07:53,400 --> 00:07:55,899
Because they too...

107
00:07:55,900 --> 00:07:57,566
Well, it is a little different. 

108
00:07:57,567 --> 00:07:59,966
Someone said:

109
00:07:59,967 --> 00:08:06,699
"Yes, you don't know how scared we were when we slaughtered the pig."

110
00:08:06,700 --> 00:08:10,332
Because slaughtering a pig was forbidden. 

111
00:08:10,333 --> 00:08:14,499
So it was a different kind of fear. 

112
00:08:14,500 --> 00:08:22,299
But it wasn't...they didn't have such a nice life and good life either. 

113
00:08:22,300 --> 00:08:30,032
So my firends helped me a lot. 

114
00:08:30,033 --> 00:08:33,499
The took me with them, opened the closet and said: 

115
00:08:33,500 --> 00:08:36,799
"Take a dress! Take whatever you want, what you need!"

116
00:08:36,800 --> 00:08:41,999
And people were always giving me things...I didn't have anything, I didn't have any clothes, I didn't have any...nothing. 

117
00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:47,132
People were always bringing me clothes and things and...

118
00:08:47,133 --> 00:08:52,732
Food back then was still on cards, yes the food was also on cards. 

119
00:08:52,733 --> 00:08:55,732
So there also wasn't....

120
00:08:55,733 --> 00:09:00,699
And life was normal again. 

121
00:09:00,700 --> 00:09:05,332
I was with my friends again and with students and...

122
00:09:05,333 --> 00:09:10,566
It was...I was not a hero or anything special probably...

123
00:09:10,567 --> 00:09:14,066
Not in the society, where I lived. 

124
00:09:14,067 --> 00:09:15,999
I was just one of, of...

125
00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:18,166
IV: But it was your home.

126
00:09:18,167 --> 00:09:19,966
Checkoslovakia was your country. 

127
00:09:19,967 --> 00:09:20,166
HM: Yes

128
00:09:20,167 --> 00:09:21,332
IV:: You grew up there. 

129
00:09:21,333 --> 00:09:21,432
HM: Yes. 

130
00:09:21,433 --> 00:09:25,166
IV: Why did you decide to go to Palestine? 

131
00:09:25,167 --> 00:09:29,399
Did you think there were no future, no opportunites for you there?

132
00:09:29,400 --> 00:09:36,332
HM: Uh, I think the main thing was that my mother wasn't alive anymore and...

133
00:09:36,333 --> 00:09:46,099
And since I had grown up with my grandparents and they were not there anymore either and no one from my family. 

134
00:09:46,100 --> 00:09:52,166
And my uncle, who I liked a lot...my mother's brother and I liked him very much. 

135
00:09:52,167 --> 00:09:54,799
And he was in Palestine and he wrote me:

136
00:09:54,800 --> 00:09:58,666
"Come, come. You will be able to continue your studies here." 

137
00:09:58,667 --> 00:10:01,166
That is when I decided to go to him. 

138
00:10:01,167 --> 00:10:06,932
And when I got to Palestine, I said, that he actually...

139
00:10:06,933 --> 00:10:13,666
He worked too and he definitely did not have enough money to send me to university. 

140
00:10:13,667 --> 00:10:21,032
And life was different there too, as I had imagined it would be when I was in Czechoslovakia.

141
00:10:21,033 --> 00:10:25,266
I thought I would come to Palestine, would attend university. 

142
00:10:25,267 --> 00:10:29,399
In Palestine there was only one university in Jerusalem then. 

143
00:10:29,400 --> 00:10:34,466
And I didn't have the money to live in Jerusalem and pay for university.

144
00:10:34,467 --> 00:10:39,732
And life was just different from what I had imagined. 

145
00:10:39,733 --> 00:10:46,466
But then I married and life was...life went on. 

146
00:10:46,467 --> 00:10:51,332
IV: How was the past dealt with in Israel? 

147
00:10:51,333 --> 00:10:52,766
Did you talk about it?

148
00:10:52,767 --> 00:10:54,699
We people interested?

149
00:10:54,700 --> 00:10:59,899
Because I imagine there were a lot of Holocaust survivors who went to what was then Palestine, now Israel. 

150
00:10:59,900 --> 00:11:00,499
HM: Yes. 

151
00:11:00,500 --> 00:11:03,166
IV: What was that like for you? Was it talked about?

152
00:11:03,167 --> 00:11:03,466
HM: No. 

153
00:11:03,467 --> 00:11:05,266
IV: Did you want, could you talk about it?

154
00:11:05,267 --> 00:11:08,132
HM: No, no. That was not an issue.

155
00:11:08,133 --> 00:11:11,332
First of all, my husband was born in Israel. 

156
00:11:11,333 --> 00:11:16,099
And all of his friends were real Israelis. 

157
00:11:16,100 --> 00:11:19,199
And people who had been there a long time.  

158
00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:22,699
And everyone knew, it was Holocaust and so, but...

159
00:11:22,700 --> 00:11:28,199
I entered into this Israeli society and...

160
00:11:28,200 --> 00:11:36,199
I think I never really spoke to anyone about it what had been. 

161
00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:38,232
Or not much at least. 

162
00:11:38,233 --> 00:11:43,399
And my children, they always tell me that I didn't speak much and they don't know. 

163
00:11:43,400 --> 00:11:49,099
And only now are they beginning to ask questions or know or see. 

164
00:11:49,100 --> 00:11:51,066
And even the grandchildren say: 

165
00:11:51,067 --> 00:11:52,566
"Why don't we know anything?"

166
00:11:52,567 --> 00:11:55,132
"And why didn't you speak about it?"

167
00:11:55,133 --> 00:12:00,566
But I wanted the children to have a normal life. 

168
00:12:00,567 --> 00:12:09,532
And since my husband hadn't gone through the Holocaust...that helpled me to give the children a normal life. 

169
00:12:09,533 --> 00:12:14,199
There were families that always talked about these things. 

170
00:12:14,200 --> 00:12:26,699
And then in the...I think it was in '68, a lot of my friends from Czechoslovakia came to Israel. 

171
00:12:26,700 --> 00:12:37,499
But they had already bullt themselves...a normal life in Czecholslovakia and then they came to the kibbuz and that was a normal life again.  

172
00:12:37,500 --> 00:12:44,699
So we met and...but we didn't speak about the Holocaust.

173
00:12:44,700 --> 00:12:52,632
But instead about the problems in Israel - there were enough problems, there was always war and something was always happening. 

174
00:12:52,633 --> 00:13:00,366
So that one...I, at least, didn't speak about it. 

175
00:13:00,367 --> 00:13:02,499
IV: And when did that change?

176
00:13:02,500 --> 00:13:05,932
And...what led to this change?

177
00:13:05,933 --> 00:13:10,199
HM: I think when you get older and...

178
00:13:10,200 --> 00:13:17,732
Maybe it is that when I was young, when the children were young and it was a hard time and one had to work.

179
00:13:17,733 --> 00:13:22,599
And always looking for money and how to buy a house. 

180
00:13:22,600 --> 00:13:25,766
And how to pay the morgage,

181
00:13:25,767 --> 00:13:28,432
And there were just other things. 

182
00:13:28,433 --> 00:13:37,332
And now I have more time to think and speak about these things.

183
00:13:37,333 --> 00:13:47,599
I think that was the same with everyone, that after they had lived a normal life they were able to speak about the Holocaust. 

184
00:13:47,600 --> 00:13:52,899
And perhaps they had more time to think back. 

185
00:13:52,900 --> 00:13:59,399
And in Germany and in Czechoslovakia too, they...

186
00:13:59,400 --> 00:14:01,999
suddenly started asking the people about it. 

187
00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:04,466
And they traveled to Auschwitz and...

188
00:14:04,467 --> 00:14:10,466
And people wanted to say, they wanted to tell about it. 

189
00:14:10,467 --> 00:14:15,499
And so over time it changed.

190
00:14:15,500 --> 00:14:29,099
I think that as life got easier...for us, we were able to talk again about the things that happened to us...

191
00:14:29,100 --> 00:14:42,599
And this distance, time distance, that probably helped us to work through it or so. 

192
00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:46,499
And it was more and more possible to speak about it. 

193
00:14:46,500 --> 00:14:49,499
It was no longer so fresh.

194
00:14:49,500 --> 00:14:52,399
IV: And maybe not as threatening either. 

195
00:14:52,400 --> 00:14:54,399
For oneself, that the memories come back. 

196
00:14:54,400 --> 00:14:59,499
HM: That is what I meant. It wasn't as fresh and not as threatening and one was more able to...

197
00:14:59,500 --> 00:15:02,232
They...we didn't have our parents anymore and we...

198
00:15:02,233 --> 00:15:14,432
Uh...it was just somehow...I don't know why, but I think, the main thing was that there was more time to reflect. 

199
00:15:14,433 --> 00:15:23,432
Because when there was war in Israel, it wasn't possible...we had to think about the children in the military and whether they would come back. 

200
00:15:23,433 --> 00:15:25,432
And where they were and...

201
00:15:25,433 --> 00:15:27,232
And my husband was in the military.

202
00:15:27,233 --> 00:15:31,432
And it was a time...my husband and my son were in the military. 

203
00:15:31,433 --> 00:15:36,799
So that was much more important for me to think about. 

204
00:15:36,800 --> 00:15:38,332
IV: One moment. 

205
00:15:38,333 --> 00:15:39,232
HM: Yes. 

206
00:15:39,233 --> 00:15:43,232
CM: The ending is missing. 

207
00:15:43,233 --> 00:15:45,566
But I'd say basically (???)

208
00:15:45,567 --> 00:15:46,532
IV: It was basically beforehand.

209
00:15:46,533 --> 00:15:47,399
HM: What? 

210
00:15:47,400 --> 00:15:49,032
IV: Everything is fine. 

211
00:15:49,033 --> 00:15:51,599
What interests me now: 

212
00:15:51,600 --> 00:15:54,699
After you began to talk about it again...

213
00:15:54,700 --> 00:15:55,566
HM: Yes, yes.

214
00:15:55,567 --> 00:15:59,966
IV: Did something change in your life, or in your family, for yourself?  

215
00:15:59,967 --> 00:16:08,332
HM: No. But I think now, I think that young people should know what happened. 

216
00:16:08,333 --> 00:16:12,999
Young people should know that we didn't have easy lives. 

217
00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:17,699
And also the people in Germany, and the people in Europe. 

218
00:16:17,700 --> 00:16:19,766
And the people in Israel, too. 

219
00:16:19,767 --> 00:16:21,532
I...so there are differences. 

220
00:16:21,533 --> 00:16:28,032
I have friends who don't want to go to Germany and they don't want to talk about it. 

221
00:16:28,033 --> 00:16:33,666
I am of the opinion that we should tell young people and...

222
00:16:33,667 --> 00:16:35,166
that they should know. 

223
00:16:35,167 --> 00:16:39,332
And it is important that it is not forgotten. 

224
00:16:39,333 --> 00:16:48,466
That something is done at the beginning, if something like this should happen again, that something be done at the beginning...

225
00:16:48,467 --> 00:16:59,466
That if they know what happened to us, they may have the strength, if something happens again, that they could stop it in the beginning. 

226
00:16:59,467 --> 00:17:07,966
And not, uh, now let something like that happen. 

227
00:17:07,967 --> 00:17:14,332
IV: How was it for you when you returned to Germany the first time, to Oederan?

228
00:17:14,333 --> 00:17:16,399
You were probably in Auschwitz too. 

229
00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:19,399
HM: I never wanted to go to Auschwitz. 

230
00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:23,566
I wanted to go to Theresienstadt, I wanted to go to Oederan. 

231
00:17:23,567 --> 00:17:26,832
But I never wanted to go to Auschwitz. 

232
00:17:26,833 --> 00:17:33,266
I don't know. That was something, I just couldn't, maybe I haven't processed it stll today.

233
00:17:33,267 --> 00:17:36,766
There are people who go there with young people. 

234
00:17:36,767 --> 00:17:40,699
I never wanted to go to Auschwitz. 

235
00:17:40,700 --> 00:17:45,266
I was even a little scared to come here. 

236
00:17:45,267 --> 00:17:50,232
Because I had seen the pictures of how the camp had once been {coughs}

237
00:17:50,233 --> 00:17:53,066
And then I said: "Oh, that looks like Auschwitz.

238
00:17:53,067 --> 00:17:53,732
I don't want that." 

239
00:17:53,733 --> 00:17:59,532
I got drawn into something that wasn't right for me. 

240
00:17:59,533 --> 00:18:03,399
And the man who went with me, from Israel, he said: 

241
00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:06,032
"No, you shouldn't be afraid.

242
00:18:06,033 --> 00:18:12,999
It is no longer like what you think. You can come along." 

243
00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:14,599
IV: And when you got here?

244
00:18:14,600 --> 00:18:16,899
When you were in Oederan, how was that? 

245
00:18:16,900 --> 00:18:20,399
Was that difficult? Did memories come back? 

246
00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:26,099
HM: Uh, not...I mean of course memories came back, but...

247
00:18:26,100 --> 00:18:33,599
We were able to treat it lightly somehow, because we were girls together and we spoke with young people. 

248
00:18:33,600 --> 00:18:37,099
And the young people asked a lot of questions. 

249
00:18:37,100 --> 00:18:41,932
And the young people were very, very nice and very interested. 

250
00:18:41,933 --> 00:18:49,099
And I was very glad that I had gone there and that I could speak with the people. 

251
00:18:49,100 --> 00:18:51,632
Because I had been to Oederan before. 

252
00:18:51,633 --> 00:18:55,732
I was in Czechoslovakia and it is not very far. 

253
00:18:55,733 --> 00:18:57,699
And I said to my husband: 

254
00:18:57,700 --> 00:18:59,632
"Come on, let's go to Oederan." 

255
00:18:59,633 --> 00:19:01,799
And then we were in Oederan. 

256
00:19:01,800 --> 00:19:04,566
And we were at the main market there. 

257
00:19:04,567 --> 00:19:07,499
And we asked people where the factory is. 

258
00:19:07,500 --> 00:19:13,632
And nobody knew that it was a factory and that anything had been there. 

259
00:19:13,633 --> 00:19:18,066
And then we found an old man, and he told us where the factory was. 

260
00:19:18,067 --> 00:19:21,566
And I went to the factory and it was empty then. 

261
00:19:21,567 --> 00:19:23,999
No one...there were no people there. 

262
00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:26,766
And then we left Oederan. 

263
00:19:26,767 --> 00:19:33,799
And then when they invited me, I thought that it is important that they know that...

264
00:19:33,800 --> 00:19:37,732
And then a girl from Oederan wrote me. 

265
00:19:37,733 --> 00:19:46,466
Uh...she wanted to do an assignment at school...I mean at the university. 

266
00:19:46,467 --> 00:19:50,499
And she said she hadn't even known that there had been a camp in Oederan. 

267
00:19:50,500 --> 00:19:52,699
It was... somewhere else. 

268
00:19:52,700 --> 00:19:59,666
And then she read that there had been prisoners in Oederan and a camp too. 

269
00:19:59,667 --> 00:20:00,766
And she wanted to know more. 

270
00:20:00,767 --> 00:20:07,199
She presented me with a whole sheet of questions and I answered them. 

271
00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:12,066
And she did a project on this subject, a university project. 

272
00:20:12,067 --> 00:20:20,932
And then I thought that this is very important because she lived there and she hadn't known what had been there. 

273
00:20:20,933 --> 00:20:28,066
IV: And what is your feeling: in Israel, are the young people interested now in your life story?

274
00:20:28,067 --> 00:20:28,332
HM: Yes. 

275
00:20:28,333 --> 00:20:29,399
IV: Is there strong interest there?

276
00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:31,466
HM: Yes, yes, they are interested too. 

277
00:20:31,467 --> 00:20:37,332
They travel to Auschwitz and they hear lectures and...

278
00:20:37,333 --> 00:20:40,199
They go to...Yad Vashem.

279
00:20:40,200 --> 00:20:42,932
And they go to this Theresienstadt House. 

280
00:20:42,933 --> 00:20:48,466
The Theresienstadt House with a museum with an exhibition. 

281
00:20:48,467 --> 00:20:49,499
Work is done there too. 

282
00:20:49,500 --> 00:20:54,366
And it is in a kibbuz, this ghetto is. 

283
00:20:54,367 --> 00:20:59,299
And the people, the young people go there and are interested, yes. 

284
00:20:59,300 --> 00:21:06,532
There was a time when people didn't speak about it, and now. 

285
00:21:06,533 --> 00:21:10,132
Yes, and even my children, they didn't know either. 

286
00:21:10,133 --> 00:21:13,832
And now, the schools, they take the schoolchildren

287
00:21:13,833 --> 00:21:19,766
And they perform Brundibár, that was performed in Theresienstadt. 

288
00:21:19,767 --> 00:21:21,399
It is performed everywhere. 

289
00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:24,466
And they hear the music from Theresienstadt. 

290
00:21:24,467 --> 00:21:26,166
Andt they hear that...

291
00:21:26,167 --> 00:21:29,899
There are exhibitions and they see pictures of Theresienstadt. 

292
00:21:29,900 --> 00:21:36,899
The new generation knows that this happened. 

293
00:21:36,900 --> 00:21:41,166
IV: Good. We are basically finished. 

294
00:21:41,167 --> 00:21:48,266
I would just like to ask to small factual questions that Fritz wrote down for me. 

295
00:21:48,267 --> 00:21:53,799
Uh, ok, I just have to take a look. 

296
00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:55,199
HM: Good. 

297
00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:58,932
IV: Uh, Did you have siblings? 

298
00:21:58,933 --> 00:22:03,832
HM: I had a sister, but she died before the war. 

299
00:22:03,833 --> 00:22:10,632
IV: So you went moved alone with your mother to Prague and then to Theresienstadt.

300
00:22:10,633 --> 00:22:13,332
HM: Yes. I lived with my mother. 

301
00:22:13,333 --> 00:22:18,899
And we had to live a village. 

302
00:22:18,900 --> 00:22:21,966
And we went with mother...

303
00:22:21,967 --> 00:22:24,366
And even then I wasn't able to stay. 

304
00:22:24,367 --> 00:22:32,432
I was able to stay, I personally could stay, because I could always say that I was Christian. 

305
00:22:32,433 --> 00:22:34,732
I could have stayed with my father. 

306
00:22:34,733 --> 00:22:36,066
But I didn't want to. 

307
00:22:36,067 --> 00:22:39,166
I always wanted to be with my mother. 

308
00:22:39,167 --> 00:22:42,999
I didn't want my mother to have to go alone. 

309
00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:48,232
And I think I wanted to remain a Jew.

310
00:22:48,233 --> 00:22:52,132
IV: {coughing}

311
00:22:52,133 --> 00:22:55,199
And what exactly happened to your mother. 

312
00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:58,199
Did you ever find out the fate of your mother?

313
00:22:58,200 --> 00:23:00,366
HM: Never, never. 

314
00:23:00,367 --> 00:23:02,899
I think she went straight to the gas. 

315
00:23:02,900 --> 00:23:06,166
Because she was always sick from travel. 

316
00:23:06,167 --> 00:23:09,332
I mean even in normal times she was always...

317
00:23:09,333 --> 00:23:16,399
She always got very sick when she traveled in a car or by train. 

318
00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:21,766
So I think she was not in a good condition when she arrived in Auschwitz. 

319
00:23:21,767 --> 00:23:26,766
And I never...I always believed and always dreamed that she...

320
00:23:26,767 --> 00:23:30,799
During the day I had a normal life. 

321
00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:38,366
But at night I always dreamed that she returned, that she came back.  

322
00:23:38,367 --> 00:23:41,632
Although I basically knew that it wasn't so. 

323
00:23:41,633 --> 00:23:47,032
Because if she was alive, she would have certainly gone to Strakonice. 

324
00:23:47,033 --> 00:23:50,699
I would have known that she survived. 

325
00:23:50,700 --> 00:23:56,166
And it is possible that they sent her to a camp. 

326
00:23:56,167 --> 00:23:59,032
But I never...

327
00:23:59,033 --> 00:24:03,032
IV: And did you leave Theresienstadt and your mother stayed behind? 

328
00:24:03,033 --> 00:24:07,399
HM: No. My mother left before me. 

329
00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:09,032
I wanted to go with her. 

330
00:24:09,033 --> 00:24:13,032
But the Germans didn't let me. 

331
00:24:13,033 --> 00:24:15,999
They didn't allow it. 

332
00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:19,366
Probably because I was a half Jew. 

333
00:24:19,367 --> 00:24:26,032
And they didn't, they kept them a bit longer. 

334
00:24:26,033 --> 00:24:28,166
Because they didn't want them there. 

335
00:24:28,167 --> 00:24:31,699
So my mother left and I couldn't go. 

336
00:24:31,700 --> 00:24:37,966
But then two transports later I left. 

337
00:24:37,967 --> 00:24:41,832
IV: And after the liberation, you came back to Theresienstadt. 

338
00:24:41,833 --> 00:24:46,366
Do you know approximately how long you were in Theresienstadt before you went on to Prague? Not very long. 

339
00:24:46,367 --> 00:24:49,032
HM : I think a week or so. 

340
00:24:49,033 --> 00:24:51,666
Not, not,..maybe less. .

341
00:24:51,667 --> 00:24:53,132
IV: Mmh. 

342
00:24:53,133 --> 00:25:01,966
HM: Because we were in good condition and because we were the first to arrive, there was...they didn't...

343
00:25:01,967 --> 00:25:05,999
I don't know, girls who were with us...not all of them were Czechs. 

344
00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:11,032
And they didn't know anyone in Theresienstadt or in Prague. 

345
00:25:11,033 --> 00:25:15,499
And I think they were put in a camp somewhere and...

346
00:25:15,500 --> 00:25:20,299
There were in Theresienstadt longer than me. 

347
00:25:20,300 --> 00:25:25,966
They took care of them until they could...

348
00:25:25,967 --> 00:25:29,999
Until they knew where to go and what they should do. 

349
00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:33,732
They were probably in the camp in Theresienstadt. 

350
00:25:33,733 --> 00:25:37,466
The Poles, the Hungarians who were with us. 

351
00:25:37,467 --> 00:25:43,599
But all the Czechs  probably left soon to go to Prague. 

352
00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:46,666
There was the Jewish Community already in Prague. 

353
00:25:46,667 --> 00:25:52,166
And they took care of us. 

354
00:25:52,167 --> 00:25:54,799
IV: Ok, good. Now one more factual question: 

355
00:25:54,800 --> 00:26:01,266
How and where did you go when you came to Palestine, you didn't speak Hebrew yet. 

356
00:26:01,267 --> 00:26:12,999
HM: No. I learned it in the youth movement...they taught us words but I couldn't speak it. 

357
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:17,699
So when I arrived...I could speak a little English. 

358
00:26:17,700 --> 00:26:23,766
And that is why I worked in Israel for the Iraq Petroleum. 

359
00:26:23,767 --> 00:26:26,432
Because they worked in English. 

360
00:26:26,433 --> 00:26:33,232
And from listening...actually I never really learned anywhere. 

361
00:26:33,233 --> 00:26:37,466
I did a writing course and from my husband. 

362
00:26:37,467 --> 00:26:41,899
When I wrote something he would point out my mistakes. 

363
00:26:41,900 --> 00:26:43,832
And I learned from my children...

364
00:26:43,833 --> 00:26:45,666
My children never wanted...

365
00:26:45,667 --> 00:26:50,399
I always wanted them to learn another language when they were young

366
00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:52,066
But they never wanted to. 

367
00:26:52,067 --> 00:26:58,432
That was a...one speaks only Ivrit and is not allowed to speak another language. 

368
00:26:58,433 --> 00:27:03,066
And so I learned from the children because we didn't learn any other language. 

369
00:27:03,067 --> 00:27:07,132
And in the beginning I only spoke Engish with my husband. 

370
00:27:07,133 --> 00:27:13,866
But...because with the children only Hebrew and everything only in Hebrew. 

371
00:27:13,867 --> 00:27:17,166
And so I had to learn Hebrew and...

372
00:27:17,167 --> 00:27:18,566
IV: Over time.

373
00:27:18,567 --> 00:27:20,132
HM: :Over time, yes. 

374
00:27:20,133 --> 00:27:23,899
IV: How and where did you meet your husband. 

375
00:27:23,900 --> 00:27:27,399
HM: On a bus. {laughs}

376
00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:30,899
I was riding on a bus and he was on the bus too. 

377
00:27:30,900 --> 00:27:34,666
And he knew someone who was sitting next to me. 

378
00:27:34,667 --> 00:27:37,832
And so we began to speak. 

379
00:27:37,833 --> 00:27:42,732
And then he went a different way and I went a different way. 

380
00:27:42,733 --> 00:27:48,399
And then we went...I went to the movies and he was...at the second showing. 

381
00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:50,899
And he came out of the first showing. 

382
00:27:50,900 --> 00:27:55,166
And we met each other and he spoke to me and...

383
00:27:55,167 --> 00:28:03,699
Then we realized that we lived very close to each other. 

384
00:28:03,700 --> 00:28:09,599
And we became friends and he was a soldier and I said...

385
00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:12,832
He wanted to marry and I believed one should marry a soldier. 

386
00:28:12,833 --> 00:28:24,132
He shouldn't, if he is a soldier and something happened to him, he should, we should be married and so we got married in the war. 

387
00:28:24,133 --> 00:28:27,499
And he only had one day off. 

388
00:28:27,500 --> 00:28:33,066
And I was...at this Iraq Petroleum Company we didn't work on Sundays. 

389
00:28:33,067 --> 00:28:40,432
So we married on a Sunday and then he went back to the military and...

390
00:28:40,433 --> 00:28:42,166
so...{laughs}

391
00:28:42,167 --> 00:28:49,032
IV: Was that significant that your husband came from Israel and had not experienced the Holocaust. 

392
00:28:49,033 --> 00:28:55,832
Could you imagine having a partner who had the same fate as you? 

393
00:28:55,833 --> 00:28:58,932
Was that even an issue?

394
00:28:58,933 --> 00:29:00,666
HM: No, that was not an issue. 

395
00:29:00,667 --> 00:29:05,666
I didn't look for anyone specific or....

396
00:29:05,667 --> 00:29:08,666
I had a friend here and a friend there.  

397
00:29:08,667 --> 00:29:13,932
And with mine...with my husband it worked out the best and I took him. 

398
00:29:13,933 --> 00:29:16,932
Then I ...then we...

399
00:29:16,933 --> 00:29:27,066
Then we got married without thinking about how I am like this and he is like that. 

400
00:29:27,067 --> 00:29:35,932
It's is like I told you already, everyone was poor and no one had an apartment or money or work. 

401
00:29:35,933 --> 00:29:37,666
And then one got married.

402
00:29:37,667 --> 00:29:40,099
And somehow...

403
00:29:40,100 --> 00:29:47,899
I wasn't looking for a special kind of man and not even a rich man or a...

404
00:29:47,900 --> 00:29:52,066
Just someone that I could get along with and that was all. 

405
00:29:52,067 --> 00:29:53,732
IV: And that is what happened. 

406
00:29:53,733 --> 00:29:57,066
HM: Yes. That is what happened, just

407
00:29:57,067 --> 00:29:58,066
IV: By chance. 

408
00:29:58,067 --> 00:30:02,732
HM: Yes. {laughs}. The way life is. 

409
00:30:02,733 --> 00:30:10,632
And back then, really I didn't think I should marry a man who had money or an apartment or...

410
00:30:10,633 --> 00:30:16,432
Uh...we didn't think back then about where we would live or {laughs}. 

411
00:30:16,433 --> 00:30:20,399
One didn't think that far ahead. 

412
00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:29,066
It was...Israel at that time was also...it was very bad times and very, very hard and we took one day at a time. 

413
00:30:29,067 --> 00:30:32,166
And we always believed things would work out. 

414
00:30:32,167 --> 00:30:33,499
IV: And it did get better. 

415
00:30:33,500 --> 00:30:35,866
HM: And it was good {laughs}.

416
00:30:35,867 --> 00:30:39,767
IV: Good. I think I have it now.