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MH: .. out of Germany.

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IV: {Technical instructions}

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Okay. Can we start?

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MH: Pardon?

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IV: The, the camera is running.

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MH: Alright.

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IV: Okay. Er, I would like to focus on your personal story of course and on Flossenbürg.

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MH: Pardon?

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IV: I would like to focus on your personal story and on Flossenbürg.

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MH: My perm..

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IV: Your personal story.

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Can you talk about your childhood a little bit, where you were born?

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MH: My childhood.

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Ich kann nicht..

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Now.. I can't remember a lot of my childhood.

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It was under the Nazi regime.

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I was.. well, I can remember I went to a Jewish school, primary school.

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I wasn't allowed to go to a Christian school any more.

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I wasn't allowed to go to cinema.

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There was a park near, near where I lived.

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IV: In Stettin.

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MH: And when I went to the park, I had to sit on the bench which said "Jews only".

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So, my childhood was limited.

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My friends were all Jewish.

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And that was my childhood really that.. what I can remember.

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I can remember my father had a hat factory, a small hat factory.

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But in 1938, he was forced to sell the factory.

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And then he worked for the new owner.

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And that.. on top of it, he was arrested in..

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Ich glaube, I remember it must have been er, November 1938.

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The Kristallnacht.

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He was sent to Sachsenhausen concentration camp.

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And he stayed there for two months and then he came back.

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But he never spoke about, he never said a word.

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And that's how we lived.

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My grandmother lived with us and..

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Well I can remember from my grandmother, well I told you that.. yesterday. {laughs}

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She was an English teacher before she married.

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And one of my jobs was always to go to a paper shop and get the English paper.

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And the only paper they.. I remember I always bought was a Times.

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But the paper always had holes in it.

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And as I told you before, once I bought a paper and there was a big hole.

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Because the paper was censored by the Nazis.

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And what they didn't want to hear the population..

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because there were Germans who could read English, so they didn't want to hear what was going on outside Germany.

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It was really bad and so we lived till 1940.

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IV: How did you become arrested?

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MH: Bitte?

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IV: How did you become arrested?

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How did you become arrested?

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MH: In 1940, in February 1940, the Gestapo arrived in the middle of the night, it was February 1940.

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And told us that we were arrested.

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We were allowed to take one suitcase.

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And my mother woke me up.

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I had to dress.

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And we gathered as much clothing as possible for the suitcase and we were transported to a large hall.

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And in the large hall were all the Jews from Stettin.

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Oh, by the way.. I lived in Stettin.

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That is now a Baltic port in Poland.

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In, in the whole..

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My parents had to give up all the German money they had with them and they were given Polish money.

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Not a lot.

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And a sack of clothing, a sack full of food.

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And then we were taken to the trains.

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And they were passenger trains.

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And the trains took us to Poland.

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We.. after three days traveling, we ended up in Lublin.

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That's, that's a town.

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And we were taken to a prisoner of war camp.

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And the, the transport was divided into three different places.

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Er, we went to a large village near Lublin, Bełżyce.

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My aunt, sister of my mother, went to Głusk.

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And the,

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and the third lot went to another place I forgot the name. That is not really important.

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Piaski.

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Und.. And it was freezing cold winter.

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And we were put on sledges, horse-drawn sledges.

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And I can't understand how the drivers.. I know we followed the previous driver,

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they see, the land was full of snow.

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One, one couldn't see whether it was road or land.

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And, so we arrived in this small town Bełżyce.

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And the Polish Jews who lived there had to find us accommodation.

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And we lost our suitcases, they stayed in Lublin and they never gave them to us.

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So we had only our clothes on.

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And my grandmother was on the sledge.

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She had frozen fingers, five of them and feet.

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And she was taken to hospital and she came, she came never out.

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She died there.

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And I had frozen, frozen fingers and toes.

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I needed a doctor too.

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Now what happened is they found us accommodation with a shoe maker.

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He had a outhouse, just one room, for four of us.

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And the Polish Jews gave us German Jews enough food.

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They opened a soup kitchen, my parents worked there.

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But because I was a child, I've, I got food from the barber, the local barber.

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The local barbershop, he, he was a widower, and the daughter cooked the meals.

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But I went there, I had nothing else to do.

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And the first year, we had a, a teacher who taught us.

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But we had no paper, no books.

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So it was really more entertainment than learning anything.

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And the following year, she was arrested, she went away.

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And, and, er.. we had nothing to do, we the children.

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And I sat in the barbershop, watched the barber.

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It was comical.

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He wasn't only the barber.

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IV: When did you go to Plaszow?

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MR: Pardon?

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IV: When did you go to Plaszow?

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MR: Oh. Much later. Much later.

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You want to know? Because.. I tell you.

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That was '40.

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And '41.

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I tell you, I must tell you this.

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The barber was the dentist as well.

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A Pole came in, he said:

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"That tooth is painful. Oh", he says, "have a look."

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He opened his mouth, the tooth is bad, it has, it has to come out.

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So what was the anaesthetic?

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A bit, a small glass of wodka.

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He, he had to drink it and they got pliers and out comes the tooth. {laughs}

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That was all until 1940 and then the SS came and arrested men for work and they were taken away.

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And they had to form a Judenrat.

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And the Judenrat was only for the Nazis' purposes.

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My brother was interpreter for the Judenrat which helped us later.

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And an SS officer came, and he wanted money and so, it's okay.

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But at the same time, he told us when there will be a resettlement, so we went into hiding.

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And by 1942, there were, out of the 4000 Jews, there were only maybe 2000 left.

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And then one day they came, we knew when they come.

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They rounded up the whole town, all the large village.

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They murdered all the (???), murdered all the people in the hospital,

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and they ran through every building and brought out all the people and they took them away.

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And then there were only a few hundred Jews left over the night

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and we had.. We were forced to clear out the houses, and there's, the announcement came to collect the goods.

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And that was a very little ghetto, and that was about that time it was '42.

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And the SS came, rounded up the ghetto and the SS officer sorted out the people.

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And I was very lucky.

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Because the SS officer liked German Jews.

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He was an, he wasn't even an officer but an Oberscharführer.

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And I passed the selection and out of these 300 people that were in ghetto, 100 were taken away including me and my family.

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And the rest were murdered.

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And we were three little boys who entered the first concentration camp.

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That was near Kraśnik.

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Well, the concentration camp was a prisoner of war camp for Jewish Polish prisoners of war which was there since 1939.

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And they all worked in a aircraft factory for Heinkel.

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And it was an Außenkommando from Majdanek concentration camp near Lublin.

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So the first day, we marched out to work.

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The, the, the camp was organised like a military, the, the, the man in charge company officer forced us three boys in the end.

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And we marched through the gate.

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And the SS commander was..

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He said to, to the Jewish camp commander:

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"Where does that little shit come from?

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I sorted them out yesterday when they arrived."

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I said.. We begged him:

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"We'll be alright. We're going to be good workers."

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And he was.. must have been in a good mood.

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And he said: "Alright. I let you live.

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I'll come around and see what it's like what you're doing."

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So we worked in the factory for one day and when we came back, the Jewish commander said:

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"You three boys never walk out the gate again.

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I find a work in, in the, in the camp."

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One got the best job in the kitchen.

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The other one got a job in, in the cabinetmaker's,

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and I got a job in the blacksmith's.

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The only reason why it was a blacksmith there was because of the Kommandant had a horse.

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And they needed horse shoes regular.

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And I don't know, the carriage which .. metal wheel.

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We found work.

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And my major job was to pump the bellows for the fire.

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But I had a more important job:

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To pinch potatoes from the kitchen.

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If I was, would have been caught, I would have got 50 lashes.

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But so we had nearly every day baked potatoes from the fire.

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And then I was a to look out the Kommandant because the Kommandant was a killer.

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I remember, he was riding on a horse and he saw, there were people left to clean the camp.

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And there was a man sweeped the parade ground, and he was leaning on his broom.

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But he didn't hear the Kommandant coming on his horse.

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The Kommandant took his revolver and just shot him.

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Or there was, there was a man, he was, he said that he caused sabotage.

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On parade we all had to hit him.

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We were lined up in fives and we had to make space in the middle, two and three.

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And then the guilty person was, had to run in between around the camp.

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And we had to hit him.

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If not the Ukrainians who stood behind would have hit us.

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That was one case and another case which affected my father.

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A man escaped.

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Well normally, if a man escaped, 15 people were taken out from the company and shot.

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This time, he got a brilliant idea.

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He sorted out 15 people from the company where the man escaped.

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And laid them out on the parade ground.

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And they didn't dare to move.

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And the Ukrainian rounded them up and hit them as they moved.

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And my father was one of them.

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And then my father because he, the Kommandant recognised him allowed him go two days early.

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But the others were hardly alive when they were allowed to go.

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Then there was a German Jew who spoke to..

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You see, we all worked in the aircraft factory.

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There were Luftwaffe officers who spoke to him.

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And that German Jew was a captain in the Kaiser's army in the First World War.

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He had an iron cross.

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He was just as German as a Luftwaffe officer.

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He wasn't very Jewish.

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The German Luftwaffe officer asked him what it's like in the camp.

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Because they were so friendly to him, the idiot told him the truth.

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Well, what happened?

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We knew it straight away because we got order to make a hook.

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And the boy from the cabinetmaker came in and said:

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"We have to build a gallow."

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So we knew it straight away.

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And somebody is going to be hanged.

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Well, the gallow was put up in the parade ground.

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And the Kommandant called out this German Jew and he said:

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"You spread lies. And I had the information from the Luftwaffe officer.

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I sentence you to death by hanging."

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And he was hanged.

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IV: When did you learn that you had to go to Flossenbürg?

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When did you learn that you had to go to Flossenbürg?

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MH: Oh that's completely different.

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IV: Ja.

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MH: From.. In 1943, my father, my brother and me were sent to another camp.

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That was Mielec.

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That was was near another large, large concentration camp, Plaszow.

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And in Mielec, we worked in the aircraft factory again.

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So I had to work in the aircraft factory.

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But there it was different.

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The factory was practically in.. the camp was in the factory.

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We had no, not much, we didn't have to walk very far to work.

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And it was smaller and there was no killer kommandant.

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And we just worked.

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And I got a job in the body factory. The body part.

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Well what happened was: I became a riveter.

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{laughs} Me, a riveter.

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Well, what happened is:

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When you build an aircraft, you build the skeleton first.

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Put the skeleton in a frame, and then you put on sheets of aluminium on the skeleton.

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And the sheets of aluminium must be riveted to the skeleton.

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First of all, one man marked the holes, and I had to drill them.

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And then they found out, the German Meister found out that I was small, I could be handed to crawl in.

239
00:19:35,467 --> 00:19:53,899
So one man put the rivet in, and I had to crab a piece of iron and I crawled in, I held it against the rivet and then they riveted, and that was my job.

240
00:19:53,900 --> 00:19:56,632
That wasn't a hard work.

241
00:19:56,633 --> 00:20:04,299
And on top of it, the Meister found out that I could speak German.

242
00:20:04,300 --> 00:20:05,832
He could speak to me.

243
00:20:05,833 --> 00:20:08,732
And he was an old man, he wasn't a Nazi.

244
00:20:08,733 --> 00:20:13,366
He, he must have been 50.

245
00:20:13,367 --> 00:20:18,766
He said: "Look. I know you suffer a lot."

246
00:20:18,767 --> 00:20:21,199
He whispered to me, he said:

247
00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:24,532
"I leave you a sandwich in my box.

248
00:20:24,533 --> 00:20:28,166
But you must watch it when you collect it."

249
00:20:28,167 --> 00:20:29,932
That was at day time.

250
00:20:29,933 --> 00:20:40,699
And on top of it, I had to interpret for, for the other prisoners when he wanted there's a work done.

251
00:20:40,700 --> 00:20:42,766
He told me, and I had to tell them.

252
00:20:42,767 --> 00:20:49,999
Whether they understood my, my, my Polish language I don't know {laughs}, but in any case that was alright at daytime.

253
00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:58,266
But in this camp we worked in night shift as well which was worse because we hardly slept.

254
00:20:58,267 --> 00:21:04,032
We came back from work, we had to clean the barracks and we did not much sleep.

255
00:21:04,033 --> 00:21:10,432
And 12 hours at night in, in the factory and..

256
00:21:10,433 --> 00:21:13,399
It was bad and the food was bad.

257
00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:14,832
I give you an example:

258
00:21:14,833 --> 00:21:19,699
they must have had bought barrels of Sauerkraut.

259
00:21:19,700 --> 00:21:25,266
And for three weeks, we had every day Sauerkraut and potatoes.

260
00:21:25,267 --> 00:21:28,832
Well that's alright when you have a nice meal.

261
00:21:28,833 --> 00:21:31,799
But you, you live of it.

262
00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:38,932
And I survived and.. because I had easy work and was light.

263
00:21:38,933 --> 00:21:42,999
I had well done till 1944.

264
00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:49,499
And.. but my brother and father had harder work.

265
00:21:49,500 --> 00:21:57,232
In 1944 we stopped going to work and we could hear the Russian guns.

266
00:21:57,233 --> 00:21:58,566
The Russians were coming.

267
00:21:58,567 --> 00:22:06,532
So they took us and, and tatooed us.

268
00:22:06,533 --> 00:22:12,966
I had a "K" and an "L" {shows his arm}, but I got rid of the "K" when I was in England.

269
00:22:12,967 --> 00:22:16,999
That means "Konzentrationslager".

270
00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:19,266
And they gave us pyjamas.

271
00:22:19,267 --> 00:22:27,366
We had civilian clothes in, in .. before with crosses painted on the stripes, but no number.

272
00:22:27,367 --> 00:22:31,566
And now we got the pyjama and we knew we were transported.

273
00:22:31,567 --> 00:22:38,632
100 prisoners to one goods' waggon.

274
00:22:38,633 --> 00:22:45,566
A bucket of water and a bucket for urine. And..

275
00:22:45,567 --> 00:22:46,966
IV: And did you know where you were going?

276
00:22:46,967 --> 00:22:47,832
MH: What?

277
00:22:47,833 --> 00:22:49,299
IV: Did you know where you were going?

278
00:22:49,300 --> 00:22:51,532
MH: No. That was secret.

279
00:22:51,533 --> 00:23:01,666
We knew we were going to Germany because where we were is not that far from the German border.

280
00:23:01,667 --> 00:23:04,232
After a time we were in Germany.

281
00:23:04,233 --> 00:23:09,266
But it took us four days.

282
00:23:09,267 --> 00:23:15,932
And we hardly had any food and a half loaf of bread disappeared in no time.

283
00:23:15,933 --> 00:23:18,499
And the bucket of water disappeared.

284
00:23:18,500 --> 00:23:22,199
And around you people died.

285
00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:26,599
And that's how I arrived in Flossenbürg.

286
00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:29,499
IV: Do you know how many people died in your car?

287
00:23:29,500 --> 00:23:34,599
MH: Maybe 10, 12.

288
00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:38,866
That's how I arrived in Flossenbürg.

289
00:23:38,867 --> 00:23:42,399
IV: What was your first impression when you got there?

290
00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:51,066
MH: Well, the start was, we had never seen a proper concentration camp in Poland.

291
00:23:51,067 --> 00:23:52,999
It was a Judenlager.

292
00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:55,432
This was a concentration camp.

293
00:23:55,433 --> 00:23:58,566
You.. With a proper built watch tower.

294
00:23:58,567 --> 00:24:02,232
And it was all SS.

295
00:24:02,233 --> 00:24:08,132
And not only the barbed wire.

296
00:24:08,133 --> 00:24:10,666
But it was electric fencing.

297
00:24:10,667 --> 00:24:27,066
And a meter from these barbed ones there was a white.. painted.. that, all the way round the camp.

298
00:24:27,067 --> 00:24:38,799
If you stepped over that, that white paint, the, the SS from the machine gunned towers shot the people.

299
00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:46,699
If people didn't want to live any more, they just walked across the white line and they were shot.

300
00:24:46,700 --> 00:24:51,832
The first thing, we went to showers again.

301
00:24:51,833 --> 00:24:54,966
They took all our clothes away.

302
00:24:54,967 --> 00:24:58,132
Got different clothes again.

303
00:24:58,133 --> 00:25:02,332
And then we were registered.

304
00:25:02,333 --> 00:25:07,399
And the first time, we had a number.

305
00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:10,166
Because in Poland, we had no number.

306
00:25:10,167 --> 00:25:15,699
I got my number, 14979.

307
00:25:15,700 --> 00:25:22,966
And the red triangle, that's political, and a yellow one.

308
00:25:22,967 --> 00:25:28,199
And that formed the star of David, because I was Jewish.

309
00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:34,466
And political prisoners had red triangle.

310
00:25:34,467 --> 00:25:40,632
The Germans had just a plain red triangle.

311
00:25:40,633 --> 00:25:45,032
The criminals had green triangle.

312
00:25:45,033 --> 00:25:48,366
Then there were Jehova's witnesses and other.

313
00:25:48,367 --> 00:25:54,366
But if you were Pole, you had a red triangle and a "P".

314
00:25:54,367 --> 00:25:59,599
Italian had a red triangle and an "I".

315
00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:02,332
Hungarian "H".

316
00:26:02,333 --> 00:26:05,332
No, "U"! {Laughs}

317
00:26:05,333 --> 00:26:15,166
Er.. Buchstabiert different anders in Deutsch "Ungarn", you know, "U".

318
00:26:15,167 --> 00:26:21,432
So da waren Menschen, Franzosen und Belgier.

319
00:26:21,433 --> 00:26:24,866
Ich habe einen Belgier getroffen hier.

320
00:26:24,867 --> 00:26:35,566
Sein Vater ist... heute morgen, ich war, das letzte Mal wie ich war, ich war im selben Gasthaus.

321
00:26:35,567 --> 00:26:39,866
Er brachte sein, hat seinen Vater, Vater hierher gebracht.

322
00:26:39,867 --> 00:26:42,832
Now, I'm talking in German.

323
00:26:42,833 --> 00:26:50,532
He brought his father, but he was not Jewish, he was Christian.

324
00:26:50,533 --> 00:26:54,399
He must have worked in underground and got caught.

325
00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:57,432
He was sent to Auschwitz and then they sent them here.

326
00:26:57,433 --> 00:26:59,766
But he brought his father the last time.

327
00:26:59,767 --> 00:27:06,632
This time he came on his own with his children to show them the concentration camp.

328
00:27:06,633 --> 00:27:08,532
IV: Can you describe the arrival?

329
00:27:08,533 --> 00:27:09,699
MH: Pardon?

330
00:27:09,700 --> 00:27:12,466
IV: Could you describe the arrival a little nearer?

331
00:27:12,467 --> 00:27:14,766
MH: The food was better than in Poland.

332
00:27:14,767 --> 00:27:21,499
And we, we got cigarettes which we never got in, in, in Poland.

333
00:27:21,500 --> 00:27:26,499
And I got cigarettes and I went to the first prisoner.

334
00:27:26,500 --> 00:27:38,799
And bartered for a slice of bread and I gave this slice of bread to my brother because he... {shakes his head} I was alright.

335
00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:40,566
IV: Could you live in the same barrack with..?

336
00:27:40,567 --> 00:27:41,332
MH: Eh?

337
00:27:41,333 --> 00:27:42,499
IV: Could you live in the same barrack?

338
00:27:42,500 --> 00:27:45,366
MH: No. He was in another barrack.

339
00:27:45,367 --> 00:27:48,699
I only saw him after work.

340
00:27:48,700 --> 00:27:51,832
And my father wasn't really..

341
00:27:51,833 --> 00:27:56,732
He had hard work he as well and he got worse.

342
00:27:56,733 --> 00:28:06,399
And then, he went into hospital and the, the regulation in hospital after four days you were killed.

343
00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:07,832
Everybody knew it.

344
00:28:07,833 --> 00:28:09,032
They gave him an injection.

345
00:28:09,033 --> 00:28:11,166
And that was the end.

346
00:28:11,167 --> 00:28:17,999
And my brother came, came back from work and went to the barrack and the Blockälteste said:

347
00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:20,399
"You're going on a transport."

348
00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:22,632
He went to another camp.

349
00:28:22,633 --> 00:28:28,032
And I didn't know what happened till, till after the war.

350
00:28:28,033 --> 00:28:29,699
I inquired with the Red Cross.

351
00:28:29,700 --> 00:28:37,499
And the Red Cross told me that he died in February 1945.

352
00:28:37,500 --> 00:28:42,899
And I was on a, I went on a death march in April.

353
00:28:42,900 --> 00:28:43,832
IV: We will come to that later.

354
00:28:43,833 --> 00:28:43,999
MH: Eh?

355
00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:45,532
IV: We come to that later.

356
00:28:45,533 --> 00:28:46,832
MH: I see.

357
00:28:46,833 --> 00:28:50,732
IV: Ja. Er, could you make friends in the camp? Was it possible?

358
00:28:50,733 --> 00:28:55,032
MH: I had a few friends in the barrack but not, not really.

359
00:28:55,033 --> 00:28:59,166
In Poland, I had more friends but here I didn't.

360
00:28:59,167 --> 00:29:04,066
Because I always slept with different people.

361
00:29:04,067 --> 00:29:07,999
And we were woken up five or six o'clock in the morning.

362
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:14,599
And one morning I pushed the man next door, but he didn't answer.

363
00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:24,799
So, I had to go to, to Blockälteste and tell him the man next door is dead.

364
00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:36,266
I had to drag him out and lay him down on the parade ground because he had to count and that was a burden.

365
00:29:36,267 --> 00:29:39,666
IV: Was there any kind of support between the prisoners?

366
00:29:39,667 --> 00:29:40,099
MH: Pardon?

367
00:29:40,100 --> 00:29:42,599
IV: Was there a support between the prisoners?

368
00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:45,066
MH: Not really.

369
00:29:45,067 --> 00:29:48,232
That wasn't really..

370
00:29:48,233 --> 00:29:52,866
Most prisoners looked after themself.

371
00:29:52,867 --> 00:29:58,566
That.. But the only thing you wanted more was food, and there wasn't any.

372
00:29:58,567 --> 00:30:00,699
And then food got worse.

373
00:30:00,700 --> 00:30:06,766
It wasn't too bad when I arrived, but by 1945 it was very bad.

374
00:30:06,767 --> 00:30:12,499
Because the Germans themselves didn't have much food, did they?

375
00:30:12,500 --> 00:30:14,666
So that's it.

376
00:30:14,667 --> 00:30:16,199
IV: What about the morning parades?

377
00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:16,999
MH: Pardon?

378
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:18,966
IV: The morning parades?

379
00:30:18,967 --> 00:30:20,099
MH: One hour.

380
00:30:20,100 --> 00:30:21,066
IV: Always one hour.

381
00:30:21,067 --> 00:30:22,332
MH: We stood there one hour.

382
00:30:22,333 --> 00:30:24,066
That was alright in summer.

383
00:30:24,067 --> 00:30:26,399
But in winter, it was terrible.

384
00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:31,799
And because this camp is a mountainous, high up.

385
00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:35,732
It's colder than in the valley, isn't it?

386
00:30:35,733 --> 00:30:45,999
And I always searched a place in the middle with older prisoners around me {laughs}. They kept me warm.

387
00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:52,466
But it was bad to stand one hour and listen to the lecture of the Blockältester.

388
00:30:52,467 --> 00:30:54,666
"Ihr verfluchte Juden."

389
00:30:54,667 --> 00:30:57,766
Jeden, jeden.. Every morning.

390
00:30:57,767 --> 00:31:05,199
But he liked the Czechs because they got parcel from home.

391
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:15,666
And what he done was he opened the parcels and picked what he wanted, and then, then the rest it goes to the prisoners.

392
00:31:15,667 --> 00:31:18,732
They dare not (???) to complain (???)..

393
00:31:18,733 --> 00:31:21,732
He would have hit them.

394
00:31:21,733 --> 00:31:24,899
He was in charge of the barrack.

395
00:31:24,900 --> 00:31:28,532
IV: Did you have to stand longer for special occasions?

396
00:31:28,533 --> 00:31:31,232
MH: No, not really, no.

397
00:31:31,233 --> 00:31:34,066
Only when there was a hanging.

398
00:31:34,067 --> 00:31:37,066
There were gallows in the parade ground.

399
00:31:37,067 --> 00:31:42,732
And what I noticed that every morning when we stood on roll calls, lorries came.

400
00:31:42,733 --> 00:31:47,999
Into the camp, through the camp into the prison.

401
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:51,632
And they were always full of, with soldiers.

402
00:31:51,633 --> 00:31:58,232
But at that time, I didn't know whether they were Russian or American airmen.

403
00:31:58,233 --> 00:32:03,466
But you know what happened to them, once they were in prison, they were shot.

404
00:32:03,467 --> 00:32:09,866
Especially if you were a Russian officer, they shot them.

405
00:32:09,867 --> 00:32:11,299
Or political.

406
00:32:11,300 --> 00:32:17,499
Because in every company in the Russian army is a political officer.

407
00:32:17,500 --> 00:32:25,532
It is not like the, the German army had the Wehrmacht and the SS.

408
00:32:25,533 --> 00:32:29,699
And the SS, the SS was the political one, wasn't it.

409
00:32:29,700 --> 00:32:32,366
The Wehrmacht were old and they were soldiers.

410
00:32:32,367 --> 00:32:39,666
But in the Russian, they had secret police in every company.

411
00:32:39,667 --> 00:32:41,199
IV: How many hangings did you see?

412
00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:43,199
MH: Twice.

413
00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:47,066
I can't remember it very good.. Twice hanging.

414
00:32:47,067 --> 00:32:56,999
The sabotage. It was a Russian prisoner of war who sabotaged something.

415
00:32:57,000 --> 00:33:01,299
IV: Did the Jewish er, prisoners also receive parcels?

416
00:33:01,300 --> 00:33:04,499
MH: Jewish prisoners were..

417
00:33:04,500 --> 00:33:07,232
We were the first Jewish prisoners here.

418
00:33:07,233 --> 00:33:25,332
Because up to the older Jewish prisoners, never mind whether they were German or French or Belgian or Dutch, they were all sent to Russia, er, to Poland.

419
00:33:25,333 --> 00:33:30,832
Because in Poland were the, the, the extermination camps.

420
00:33:30,833 --> 00:33:34,299
Because they didn't even have a gas chamber here, did they.

421
00:33:34,300 --> 00:33:39,799
So they.. It was all taking part in, in Poland.

422
00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:43,266
So we were the first Jews here.

423
00:33:43,267 --> 00:33:51,499
Sie sind uns, sie haben uns hier, er, {changes language} they brought us here {laughs}, what terrible!

424
00:33:51,500 --> 00:33:57,132
They brought us here because they wanted workers in the aircraft factory.

425
00:33:57,133 --> 00:34:12,266
Because we worked in, in Poland in the aircraft factory and so we were valuable workers to work here in the aircraft factory.

426
00:34:12,267 --> 00:34:22,232
The ony difference was, in Poland we worked for Heinkel, and here we worked for Messerschmitt.

427
00:34:22,233 --> 00:34:24,799
And there's one thing I must tell you that's..

428
00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:26,999
I found it out.

429
00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:39,566
Because our little camp of 5000 prisoners in Budzyn worked in the aircraft, it was saved from murder in 1943.

430
00:34:39,567 --> 00:34:52,232
Because all the Jews that were hundreds of thou.., thou, thousands of prisoners who had to live in, in Bud.. er,

431
00:34:52,233 --> 00:35:07,732
Majdanek or the Poniatowa Lager und Trawniki und Kriegsgefangenenlager, polnisch-jüdische Kriegsgefangenenlager in Lublin wurde alle ermordet.

432
00:35:07,733 --> 00:35:12,232
Das hieß das Erntefest.

433
00:35:12,233 --> 00:35:23,632
Ich glaube, da waren, I think I read it after the war, it was 35000 prisoners who were murdered.

434
00:35:23,633 --> 00:35:31,466
So that meant there weren't a Jew left in the Lublin district except our little town.

435
00:35:31,467 --> 00:35:44,866
And the final part was, I had a phone call from a prisoner who was in Budzyn.

436
00:35:44,867 --> 00:35:49,332
That's a typical fairytale that, that people saw.

437
00:35:49,333 --> 00:35:58,399
And he says, he worked in the office in the aircraft factory.

438
00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:17,366
And he heard the director of the aircraft factory bargaining with the headquarters of the SS in Berlin to let us live in, in Budzyn.

439
00:36:17,367 --> 00:36:20,532
I can't imagine that it happened

440
00:36:20,533 --> 00:36:25,832
because first of all, all right, the man may have worked in the office.

441
00:36:25,833 --> 00:36:33,899
But the, the director most probably would have made the phone call behind his shut door.

442
00:36:33,900 --> 00:36:37,432
Not having the open door that everybody could hear what was going on.

443
00:36:37,433 --> 00:36:41,666
That's a fairytale, isn't it.

444
00:36:41,667 --> 00:36:45,666
IV: In Flossenbürg the village is so close to the camp.

445
00:36:45,667 --> 00:36:45,999
MH: Pardon?

446
00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:48,332
IV: The village is so close to the camp.

447
00:36:48,333 --> 00:36:50,766
Did you, did you have any contact?

448
00:36:50,767 --> 00:36:53,666
Could you see the people of the village?

449
00:36:53,667 --> 00:36:58,532
MH: No, no. Nie. Never.

450
00:36:58,533 --> 00:37:03,699
The, what I don't understand is, there was a railway here.

451
00:37:03,700 --> 00:37:13,266
Cause the railway brought us here, and we marched through the village to the camp.

452
00:37:13,267 --> 00:37:16,232
But it's not any more, is it?

453
00:37:16,233 --> 00:37:20,866
I don't know, do they still use the quarry?

454
00:37:20,867 --> 00:37:22,099
IV: Ja.

455
00:37:22,100 --> 00:37:28,499
MH: How do they transport the lorries?

456
00:37:28,500 --> 00:37:34,032
Cause.. but it's not as big as it used to be, is it?

457
00:37:34,033 --> 00:37:35,399
IV: No, it's small.

458
00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:39,132
MH: Because they haven't got the prisoners any more, have they.

459
00:37:39,133 --> 00:37:42,132
IV: Did you ever have to work in the quarry, too?

460
00:37:42,133 --> 00:37:44,466
MH: As punishment one day.

461
00:37:44,467 --> 00:37:46,699
IV: Can you talk about that?

462
00:37:46,700 --> 00:37:56,999
MH: That one day maybe 100 prisoners were killed by the criminal prisoners.

463
00:37:57,000 --> 00:37:59,066
IV: What was the reason?

464
00:37:59,067 --> 00:38:05,166
MH: That was a punishment, I don't know, I can't remember what happened.

465
00:38:05,167 --> 00:38:11,732
But the criminals pushed them down the mountains.

466
00:38:11,733 --> 00:38:15,799
And that's what they had done before the war with the political prisoners.

467
00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:20,066
So, so they, they helped the SS.

468
00:38:20,067 --> 00:38:25,432
Of course the SS was there, too, because it's outside the camp, wasn't it.

469
00:38:25,433 --> 00:38:27,699
They had to watch us.

470
00:38:27,700 --> 00:38:36,099
But a lot of prisoners died that day, Häftlinge.

471
00:38:36,100 --> 00:38:37,932
IV: What did you have to do on that day?

472
00:38:37,933 --> 00:38:38,432
MH: Pardon?

473
00:38:38,433 --> 00:38:42,699
IV: What did you have to do on that day in the quarry?

474
00:38:42,700 --> 00:38:44,999
MH: Carry stones.

475
00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:51,032
I took one large stone, put it on my shoulder, and I walked around with it all day.

476
00:38:51,033 --> 00:38:56,332
Watching the guards.

477
00:38:56,333 --> 00:39:00,999
{Laughs}

478
00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:05,666
IV: Did you see a lot of violence between the prisoners in the camp?

479
00:39:05,667 --> 00:39:07,232
MH: No.

480
00:39:07,233 --> 00:39:10,132
Exc, except the criminals.

481
00:39:10,133 --> 00:39:14,532
They could do with the prisoners what they wanted to.

482
00:39:14,533 --> 00:39:22,666
They could attack prisoners, but they always attacked the political prisoners.

483
00:39:22,667 --> 00:39:27,366
Of course when the Jews came, they attacked the Jews as well.

484
00:39:27,367 --> 00:39:31,666
But mainly the political prisoners.

485
00:39:31,667 --> 00:39:37,099
And most probably I don't know whether they asked the prisoner before they attacked him:

486
00:39:37,100 --> 00:39:43,032
"Sind Sie, sind Sie ein Kommunist oder Social Demokrat?"

487
00:39:43,033 --> 00:39:52,532
On the, on the, on the triangle you couldn't recognize whether the man was a communist or  social democrat.

488
00:39:52,533 --> 00:40:02,299
But I, I, I don't know, I don't know whatever called... they had black triangle.

489
00:40:02,300 --> 00:40:04,766
But they were Germans.

490
00:40:04,767 --> 00:40:09,666
Maybe they were smugglers or something. I don't know..

491
00:40:09,667 --> 00:40:11,999
IV: It was for unsocial behaviour.

492
00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:14,699
MH: Vielleicht..

493
00:40:14,700 --> 00:40:21,932
IV: Did you get a lot of news, or some news in the camp about the political situation, about the war?

494
00:40:21,933 --> 00:40:26,366
MH: No. No, I never asked, asked.

495
00:40:26,367 --> 00:40:30,566
I didn't talk a lot.

496
00:40:30,567 --> 00:40:35,299
That is, that was, you never knew whom you talked to.

497
00:40:35,300 --> 00:40:39,432
It could have been spies from the SS.

498
00:40:39,433 --> 00:40:42,132
That's why I was silent.

499
00:40:42,133 --> 00:40:49,332
Because for extra food, people do anything they can.

500
00:40:49,333 --> 00:40:50,766
IV: Did you ever have free time?

501
00:40:50,767 --> 00:40:52,399
MH: Pardon?

502
00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:54,232
IV: Did you ever have free time in the camp?

503
00:40:54,233 --> 00:40:54,999
MH: No.

504
00:40:55,000 --> 00:40:58,899
IV: No.

505
00:40:58,900 --> 00:41:03,099
How did the food supply change in 1945?

506
00:41:03,100 --> 00:41:08,832
MH: Because the Germans didn't have any food themselves, did they.

507
00:41:08,833 --> 00:41:14,399
I've heard from prisoners of war who were in prisoner of war camps.

508
00:41:14,400 --> 00:41:17,132
They got Red Cross parcels.

509
00:41:17,133 --> 00:41:20,399
They had better food than the guards.

510
00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:23,999
Because they got Red Cross parcels full of food.

511
00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:30,899
And the Wehrmacht gave it to the British, Americans prisoners.

512
00:41:30,900 --> 00:41:32,932
They didn't hold it back.

513
00:41:32,933 --> 00:41:35,499
They were good..

514
00:41:35,500 --> 00:41:42,332
But they knew that they had loads of prisoners of war in, in, in England and in America.

515
00:41:42,333 --> 00:41:48,332
In America they had better lives than in Germany, the prisoners of war.

516
00:41:48,333 --> 00:41:50,166
Better food. Honestly.

517
00:41:50,167 --> 00:41:56,332
Not in England. Because England had the er, food rationing.

518
00:41:56,333 --> 00:41:58,266
Even after the war.

519
00:41:58,267 --> 00:42:03,699
Although they won the war. {laughs}

520
00:42:03,700 --> 00:42:07,132
IV: Did you know about the V.I.P. prisoners in the camp?

521
00:42:07,133 --> 00:42:07,999
MH: Pardon?

522
00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:11,999
IV: Did you know about the V.I.P. prisoners in the camp, like Dietrich Bonhoeffer?

523
00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:15,266
MH: No.

524
00:42:15,267 --> 00:42:33,366
I know there was a barrack where there were prisoners, Häftlinge, who were political, a lot of French and later on also Hungarian.

525
00:42:33,367 --> 00:42:37,866
They didn't work and I think they got better food.

526
00:42:37,867 --> 00:42:41,099
But I don't know where, which barrack that was.

527
00:42:41,100 --> 00:42:48,466
The only novelty I came across, it was a Negro. {laughs}

528
00:42:48,467 --> 00:42:53,999
This morning I asked Skriebeleit what happened to him.

529
00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:55,799
He couldn't know what happened.

530
00:42:55,800 --> 00:42:59,232
He, he had a job in the kitchen.

531
00:42:59,233 --> 00:43:10,999
And you know even in, this concentration camp was terrible, but here they, that have to be as anywhere just..

532
00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:11,732
everybody said:

533
00:43:11,733 --> 00:43:13,766
"Go and have a look at him!"

534
00:43:13,767 --> 00:43:16,932
And I have never seen a Negro in my life.

535
00:43:16,933 --> 00:43:20,132
Now I see them every day.

536
00:43:20,133 --> 00:43:27,666
When I go to underground and in the street in London I see Negros.

537
00:43:27,667 --> 00:43:33,332
And in London is United Nation.

538
00:43:33,333 --> 00:43:40,366
But, aber es gibt auch Negros in Germany now.

539
00:43:40,367 --> 00:43:48,899
But even then I noticed the Negros were separated from the..

540
00:43:48,900 --> 00:43:54,999
They were all, they drove the lorries.

541
00:43:55,000 --> 00:43:59,832
I never saw Negro soldiers with arms.

542
00:43:59,833 --> 00:44:04,232
There was a separation at the time, I don't know

543
00:44:04,233 --> 00:44:08,532
whether they didn't trust the Negros with the guns.

544
00:44:08,533 --> 00:44:10,666
IV: Can you talk about the last days in the..?

545
00:44:10,667 --> 00:44:11,666
MH: Pardon?

546
00:44:11,667 --> 00:44:13,866
IV: About the last days in Flossenbürg?

547
00:44:13,867 --> 00:44:19,666
Er, when did you learn that you had to march ..

548
00:44:19,667 --> 00:44:22,866
MH: One day, the Blockälteste said:

549
00:44:22,867 --> 00:44:24,732
"You don't go to work anymore."

550
00:44:24,733 --> 00:44:27,899
And nobody gave us notice, and so..

551
00:44:27,900 --> 00:44:30,532
"Alle Juden raus!"

552
00:44:30,533 --> 00:44:34,799
That was it.

553
00:44:34,800 --> 00:44:36,399
Maybe I could have stayed.

554
00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:40,666
Maybe they wouldn't have betrayed me.

555
00:44:40,667 --> 00:44:43,499
But I don't know whether it was true.

556
00:44:43,500 --> 00:44:46,866
And don't know what would have happened.

557
00:44:46,867 --> 00:44:50,532
IV: What time in the day did you start?

558
00:44:50,533 --> 00:44:51,499
MH: Eh?

559
00:44:51,500 --> 00:44:53,666
IV: When did you start marching?

560
00:44:53,667 --> 00:44:57,666
MH: In the morning we went to the railway.

561
00:44:57,667 --> 00:45:07,399
They put us on waggons, and the journey lasted one hour and we were attacked by fighter planes.

562
00:45:07,400 --> 00:45:09,499
IV: Did you get any food for that?

563
00:45:09,500 --> 00:45:13,399
MH: And after that we had to start marching.

564
00:45:13,400 --> 00:45:18,899
Because it happened a second time, and that's when the trouble started.

565
00:45:18,900 --> 00:45:21,332
It was terrible.

566
00:45:21,333 --> 00:45:22,666
We had no food.

567
00:45:22,667 --> 00:45:26,999
They gave us half a loaf of bread when we started off here.

568
00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:30,532
And we had no water, nothing to drink.

569
00:45:30,533 --> 00:45:34,732
The farmers didn't give us, they attacked us.

570
00:45:34,733 --> 00:45:39,232
They were frightened of the SS.

571
00:45:39,233 --> 00:45:43,999
We, we marched through a small village, there was a bridge.

572
00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:50,966
And the, the local people threw sandwhiches to us. 

573
00:45:50,967 --> 00:45:53,432
You know what the guards done?

574
00:45:53,433 --> 00:45:57,266
They started shooting the, the local people.

575
00:45:57,267 --> 00:46:00,599
They just started shooting their own people.

576
00:46:00,600 --> 00:46:05,999
Because nobody, they ran away of course.

577
00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:08,699
IV: Did you know where you were going?

578
00:46:08,700 --> 00:46:09,499
MH: Pardon?

579
00:46:09,500 --> 00:46:11,566
IV: Did you know where you were going?

580
00:46:11,567 --> 00:46:15,499
MH: I don't know, I don't know.

581
00:46:15,500 --> 00:46:16,832
IV: Where did you sleep?

582
00:46:16,833 --> 00:46:18,599
MH: Where?

583
00:46:18,600 --> 00:46:20,766
IV: On the march, where did you sleep?

584
00:46:20,767 --> 00:46:30,166
MH: We slept in, in barn, you know in the farm houses and in a barn.

585
00:46:30,167 --> 00:46:32,532
Because the SS had to sleep as well.

586
00:46:32,533 --> 00:46:39,366
Am Morgen mussten wir, we had to carry on marching.

587
00:46:39,367 --> 00:46:40,932
It was hard.

588
00:46:40,933 --> 00:46:44,532
I'm surprised that I was alive. I was..

589
00:46:44,533 --> 00:46:49,832
When the Americans liberated us I was half dead.

590
00:46:49,833 --> 00:47:00,832
Because of the, the feet were swollen because we had to march with wooden soled shoes.

591
00:47:00,833 --> 00:47:05,999
And this was very hard, very hard.

592
00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:11,999
Can I have a drink?

593
00:47:12,000 --> 00:47:15,066
{drinks}

594
00:47:15,067 --> 00:47:18,699
It must have been four or five days.

595
00:47:18,700 --> 00:47:26,432
But time... I can't really tell.

596
00:47:26,433 --> 00:47:33,532
All I know, we were liberated and a lot of the prisoners who were liberated died from food.

597
00:47:33,533 --> 00:47:38,566
But.. because I had a bad leg.

598
00:47:38,567 --> 00:47:41,766
I don't know to this day.

599
00:47:41,767 --> 00:47:49,499
Was it a guard shot me in, when the train stopped, or, or I was...

600
00:47:49,500 --> 00:47:52,499
I had.. {shows his leg}

601
00:47:52,500 --> 00:47:56,466
See the scars?

602
00:47:56,467 --> 00:48:03,266
And I didn't tell the guards, of course they shot the prisoners who were wounded.

603
00:48:03,267 --> 00:48:06,066
So I wrapped it up with paper.

604
00:48:06,067 --> 00:48:16,566
And what happened was in a week, the wound festered.

605
00:48:16,567 --> 00:48:22,266
And when, when I was liberated, I told the American.

606
00:48:22,267 --> 00:48:31,866
And he said: "I take you to, to the camp, to the.. not the camp, hospital."

607
00:48:31,867 --> 00:48:39,699
And the doctor had one look, and by that time the wound was.. terrible state because..

608
00:48:39,700 --> 00:48:50,599
And, and that is my imagination about, if you are undernourished, you got no resistance against wounds.

609
00:48:50,600 --> 00:48:53,199
It gets worse.

610
00:48:53,200 --> 00:48:59,066
And they stripped the paper off and put antiseptic on.

611
00:48:59,067 --> 00:49:03,899
And I was three or four days in hospital.

612
00:49:03,900 --> 00:49:08,166
And it was a hospital for wounded soldiers.

613
00:49:08,167 --> 00:49:14,466
And, and that saved my life because what happened?

614
00:49:14,467 --> 00:49:18,066
And he, the doctor said:

615
00:49:18,067 --> 00:49:20,532
"You mustn't eat a lot.

616
00:49:20,533 --> 00:49:27,466
We give you a bowl of porridge and some slice of bread."

617
00:49:27,467 --> 00:49:31,199
All the years I saw bread.

618
00:49:31,200 --> 00:49:34,266
It was like rock hard.

619
00:49:34,267 --> 00:49:36,066
Like a stone.

620
00:49:36,067 --> 00:49:40,699
All of a sudden I see, I saw a white bit of bread.

621
00:49:40,700 --> 00:49:45,632
It was fantastic, and that was their main bread.

622
00:49:45,633 --> 00:49:49,732
And that saved my life as well.

623
00:49:49,733 --> 00:49:53,832
After three or four days a, the doctor said:

624
00:49:53,833 --> 00:49:55,732
"Now you can eat more."

625
00:49:55,733 --> 00:50:00,332
But some prisoners overate.

626
00:50:00,333 --> 00:50:06,132
And the stomach was shrunk to nothing and it couldn't take..

627
00:50:06,133 --> 00:50:10,032
They died.

628
00:50:10,033 --> 00:50:21,966
Er.. It's.. if you don't know if somebody doesn't give you advice, it's obvious that you do that sort of thing.

629
00:50:21,967 --> 00:50:26,466
Ja. We live and learn. {laughs}

630
00:50:26,467 --> 00:50:32,066
IV: At the end of the march, do you remember when you saw the first American?

631
00:50:32,067 --> 00:50:35,599
MH: Well, they were very nice to us.

632
00:50:35,600 --> 00:50:38,399
The first soldiers were friendly.

633
00:50:38,400 --> 00:50:42,599
They threw us small package.

634
00:50:42,600 --> 00:50:52,399
This, this package are special rations if they are cut off from, from the column.

635
00:50:52,400 --> 00:50:53,999
You know.

636
00:50:54,000 --> 00:51:01,199
You could open, it was a waterproof packet, square like that.

637
00:51:01,200 --> 00:51:09,666
And you opened it up and you had biscuits in there, cheese, and the first time in my life, I saw chewing gum.

638
00:51:09,667 --> 00:51:12,266
And cigarettes.

639
00:51:12,267 --> 00:51:15,832
All in a.. And they, that was the tanks.

640
00:51:15,833 --> 00:51:18,499
And then of course the, the infantery.

641
00:51:18,500 --> 00:51:21,432
And they said: "We bring you.."

642
00:51:21,433 --> 00:51:25,699
They, they didn't..

643
00:51:25,700 --> 00:51:31,399
They felt sorry when they looked over us and they said, we need a sanitory.

644
00:51:31,400 --> 00:51:35,932
The, the you know, they looked after us.

645
00:51:35,933 --> 00:51:42,632
But in, in the hospital, they took all my clothes away.

646
00:51:42,633 --> 00:51:45,632
And, they, they, the nurse said:

647
00:51:45,633 --> 00:51:56,199
"We put your jacket on the floor and it walked away."

648
00:51:56,200 --> 00:51:59,399
It was full of lice.

649
00:51:59,400 --> 00:52:02,532
And I had no clothes.

650
00:52:02,533 --> 00:52:10,866
All I had was a shirt and no underwear never, no socks, nobody in the camp got this.

651
00:52:10,867 --> 00:52:15,266
And the shoes they threw away.

652
00:52:15,267 --> 00:52:17,366
So I was naked in bed.

653
00:52:17,367 --> 00:52:19,666
And they gave of course a night shirt.

654
00:52:19,667 --> 00:52:23,699
And then the doctor came. He says:

655
00:52:23,700 --> 00:52:25,332
"I have to find you clothes."

656
00:52:25,333 --> 00:52:29,399
He came back with Hitler Youth clothes.

657
00:52:29,400 --> 00:52:33,466
So that was the first clothes and then:

658
00:52:33,467 --> 00:52:36,066
"What am I going to do for shoes for you?" he says.

659
00:52:36,067 --> 00:52:47,899
"I know. I go to, to the army headquarters and find the smallest pair of boots."

660
00:52:47,900 --> 00:52:58,332
And he brought me fair brown boots. It was long and straps on the.. But it worked.

661
00:52:58,333 --> 00:53:01,732
And socks, they were very good, very.

662
00:53:01,733 --> 00:53:04,332
They felt sorry for us more than anything.

663
00:53:04,333 --> 00:53:10,166
Of course some of them were Jewish, they, they, they helped us more than..

664
00:53:10,167 --> 00:53:12,366
IV: How long did you stay in hospital?

665
00:53:12,367 --> 00:53:12,966
MH: Pardon?

666
00:53:12,967 --> 00:53:15,499
IV: How long did you stay in hospital?

667
00:53:15,500 --> 00:53:19,699
MH: About four or five days and then they released us.

668
00:53:19,700 --> 00:53:23,866
And then the United Nation Relief Organisation took care of us.

669
00:53:23,867 --> 00:53:27,499
Aber, but they made a mistake.

670
00:53:27,500 --> 00:53:29,966
They put us..

671
00:53:29,967 --> 00:53:31,699
I told you before, didn't I?

672
00:53:31,700 --> 00:53:34,499
They, they put us in a barn.

673
00:53:34,500 --> 00:53:36,832
No, in a barrack.

674
00:53:36,833 --> 00:53:40,332
Army barrack.

675
00:53:40,333 --> 00:53:44,666
From, from the German army.

676
00:53:44,667 --> 00:53:54,999
But we had to, there were Polish prisoners of war there who were going home, who waited to go home.

677
00:53:55,000 --> 00:54:03,866
And they, they would use to fight with us because we grew stronger..

678
00:54:03,867 --> 00:54:08,966
But they were working on farms.

679
00:54:08,967 --> 00:54:13,199
They carried on with the farmers' wifes and were healthy.

680
00:54:13,200 --> 00:54:15,766
They were really antisemites then.

681
00:54:15,767 --> 00:54:24,699
Er.. Der eine, the only help we got was from the Jewish soldiers in the village.

682
00:54:24,700 --> 00:54:31,866
They said: "If those Poles cause you trouble call us and we sort them out."

683
00:54:31,867 --> 00:54:34,932
We er, very cheeky.

684
00:54:34,933 --> 00:54:37,132
They were so bad.

685
00:54:37,133 --> 00:54:44,232
And one day, they stood on parade every morning and hoisted their flag.

686
00:54:44,233 --> 00:54:47,532
A red and white flag.

687
00:54:47,533 --> 00:54:49,299
You know what we done?

688
00:54:49,300 --> 00:54:52,332
By the afternoon they all were gone.

689
00:54:52,333 --> 00:54:54,099
I don't know where they were.

690
00:54:54,100 --> 00:54:59,866
We grabbed to the flagpole and pulled their blowing flag down.

691
00:54:59,867 --> 00:55:03,232
You should have seen them how they foamed there.

692
00:55:03,233 --> 00:55:04,266
They were going to murder us.

693
00:55:04,267 --> 00:55:07,799
But we told the Jewish soldiers come and help.

694
00:55:07,800 --> 00:55:12,599
And they informed the United Nation Relief organisation.

695
00:55:12,600 --> 00:55:15,366
And they said: "You can't stay here.

696
00:55:15,367 --> 00:55:17,699
We find you a new accomodation."

697
00:55:17,700 --> 00:55:20,799
And we were 50 boys, young people.

698
00:55:20,800 --> 00:55:25,566
We ended up in a convent.

699
00:55:25,567 --> 00:55:26,999
It's a joke, isn't it?

700
00:55:27,000 --> 00:55:31,832
Jews in a convent {giggle}] in Indersdorf.

701
00:55:31,833 --> 00:55:35,632
That's where we stayed.

702
00:55:35,633 --> 00:55:39,166
But the nuns were very nice to us.

703
00:55:39,167 --> 00:55:43,332
But they liked us because we got food.

704
00:55:43,333 --> 00:55:48,666
We got food from the United Nation Relief organisation.

705
00:55:48,667 --> 00:55:52,332
And we got food from the Jewish soldiers.

706
00:55:52,333 --> 00:55:58,966
They brought us food because the Americans, they don't know what saving means.

707
00:55:58,967 --> 00:56:00,566
I don't know.

708
00:56:00,567 --> 00:56:05,132
They eat twice as much than any other person.

709
00:56:05,133 --> 00:56:10,199
You see they have a steak, is that big.

710
00:56:10,200 --> 00:56:13,599
Have you ever seen them, they eat..

711
00:56:13,600 --> 00:56:16,932
It's amazing. And they are all, that's why they are all big.

712
00:56:16,933 --> 00:56:19,399
And that's all wasted food.

713
00:56:19,400 --> 00:56:19,866
Terrible.

714
00:56:19,867 --> 00:56:24,099
And they didn't even put themselves out.

715
00:56:24,100 --> 00:56:27,032
It was wasted food they gave to us.

716
00:56:27,033 --> 00:56:29,532
So we were loving it.

717
00:56:29,533 --> 00:56:35,032
We had never seen food like it since before the war.

718
00:56:35,033 --> 00:56:39,166
IV: And later on, what was the first time, you returned to Flossenbürg?

719
00:56:39,167 --> 00:56:47,632
MH: That was three years ago or four years ago. Four years ago.

720
00:56:47,633 --> 00:56:49,199
IV: What did it feel?

721
00:56:49,200 --> 00:56:50,132
MH: Pardon?

722
00:56:50,133 --> 00:56:51,599
IV: How did it feel for you?

723
00:56:51,600 --> 00:56:56,632
MH: Well, I go to Holocaust survivors club.

724
00:56:56,633 --> 00:57:06,032
And they put a note out from the consul general, the British consul general from Munich.

725
00:57:06,033 --> 00:57:24,099
On it stated that any person who was in prisoner in the concentration camp of Flossenbürg should write to the office for proof that they may come to claim for slave labour.

726
00:57:24,100 --> 00:57:27,299
Because we had to put in a claim for slave labour.

727
00:57:27,300 --> 00:57:31,532
So I thought I got nothing to loose.

728
00:57:31,533 --> 00:57:32,999
I wrote away.

729
00:57:33,000 --> 00:57:36,799
And within a week I had an answer.

730
00:57:36,800 --> 00:57:55,299
They made a photocopy of the book when I arrived in Juli 1944, July 1944 from Plaszow concentration camp and my number.

731
00:57:55,300 --> 00:57:59,266
And I send that in the claiming.

732
00:57:59,267 --> 00:58:01,332
But that wasn't it.

733
00:58:01,333 --> 00:58:06,132
They sent me a letter after that and invited me for the reunion.

734
00:58:06,133 --> 00:58:08,632
But I didn't want to go.

735
00:58:08,633 --> 00:58:14,566
I haven't been in Germany since Oktober 1945 when I left.

736
00:58:14,567 --> 00:58:19,699
And I didn't want to go, come back here.

737
00:58:19,700 --> 00:58:23,066
But then they didn't leave me alone.

738
00:58:23,067 --> 00:58:31,032
Following week I got another letter with a programm what would happen at the weekend.

739
00:58:31,033 --> 00:58:40,232
And it said on Sunday, there'll be prayer in the Jewish prayer hall for the people who died here.

740
00:58:40,233 --> 00:58:43,232
And that's when I decided to come.

741
00:58:43,233 --> 00:58:46,166
If not, I wouldn't have come.

742
00:58:46,167 --> 00:58:51,699
Of course, they were very nice to me.

743
00:58:51,700 --> 00:58:54,766
IV: When you see the camp today, how do you feel?

744
00:58:54,767 --> 00:58:55,966
MH: Pardon?

745
00:58:55,967 --> 00:58:59,366
IV: When you see the rest of the camp today, what, what do you feel?

746
00:58:59,367 --> 00:59:06,066
MH: I don't, don't know what's going on. All the building were gone, isn't they.

747
00:59:06,067 --> 00:59:13,332
The government must spend a lot of money.

748
00:59:13,333 --> 00:59:15,732
There you are.

749
00:59:15,733 --> 00:59:18,699
Did I say enough, what more do you..?

750
00:59:18,700 --> 00:59:20,099
IV: I think that was very good.

751
00:59:20,100 --> 00:59:21,232
MH: It's enough, isn't it.

752
00:59:21,233 --> 00:59:30,400
IV: Thank you.