1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:00,432
IV: Test

2
00:00:00,433 --> 00:00:01,066
CM: Rolling.

3
00:00:01,067 --> 00:00:03,532
IV: Uhm

4
00:00:03,533 --> 00:00:11,866
IV: Today is Friday, July 19, 2013. We are in Hotel Admira in Weiden in the Upper Palatinate.

5
00:00:11,867 --> 00:00:14,732
My name is Michael Aue from Medienwerkstatt Franken. 

6
00:00:14,733 --> 00:00:23,066
I am now conducting an interview with Mr. Jakob Fassler, who lives in Israel, was born in Mannheim and

7
00:00:23,067 --> 00:00:34,299
who was in the Flossenbürg concentration camp and who is going to tell his story now. 

8
00:00:34,300 --> 00:00:36,299
CM: (???)

9
00:00:36,300 --> 00:00:40,999
IV: Ok. Are you? If you are ready.

10
00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:43,266
CM: Yes.

11
00:00:43,267 --> 00:00:48,066
IV: Mr. Fassler, before we get to the whole story of camp imprisonment,

12
00:00:48,067 --> 00:00:51,899
I would like you to tell me a bit about your childhood and youth. 

13
00:00:51,900 --> 00:00:57,432
Where you were born, about your family, how you grew up.

14
00:00:57,433 --> 00:01:03,666
JF: Well, I was born in Mannheim in 1924. 

15
00:01:03,667 --> 00:01:12,732
As a child I attended elementary school L..., L1 or L2, K5.

16
00:01:12,733 --> 00:01:21,499
As of the 5th grade, instead of going to a Gymnasium [upper school]

17
00:01:21,500 --> 00:01:25,166
which was banned to Jews.. Gymnasium.

18
00:01:25,167 --> 00:01:30,899
But the Jewish community had a, had a...

19
00:01:30,900 --> 00:01:36,732
actually it founded its own school.

20
00:01:36,733 --> 00:01:42,599
And it was a Jewish school to,

21
00:01:42,600 --> 00:01:52,399
until November 9 or 10...1938. That was the Kristallnacht. 

22
00:01:52,400 --> 00:02:00,066
My father was Austri, uh Austri...

23
00:02:00,067 --> 00:02:00,766
IV: Austrian.

24
00:02:00,767 --> 00:02:02,632
JF: Austrian. 

25
00:02:02,633 --> 00:02:11,832
But he probably didn't have a passport. 

26
00:02:11,833 --> 00:02:20,932
He was expelled as a Pole on October 28, 1938.

27
00:02:20,933 --> 00:02:29,999
My mother and we children stayed in Mannheim until June 15, 1939. 

28
00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:33,999
Then we were.. we had to...

29
00:02:34,000 --> 00:02:37,766
My mother wanted to see my father...

30
00:02:37,767 --> 00:02:47,199
And she was given a red stamp, that's how it was called, in the ... to immigrate to Poland. 

31
00:02:47,200 --> 00:02:54,266
We went to Poland a few weeks before the war broke out. 

32
00:02:54,267 --> 00:03:02,666
About six weeks before September 1, 1939, I think, that is when the war began. 

33
00:03:02,667 --> 00:03:11,399
And then, uh, and then the Germans...the soldiers, and we were in...

34
00:03:11,400 --> 00:03:15,899
My father was born in Cracow and...

35
00:03:15,900 --> 00:03:21,432
There we had.. It is a bit...it is hard for me...

36
00:03:21,433 --> 00:03:24,266
to tell it chronologically.

37
00:03:24,267 --> 00:03:30,732
IV: You don't have to. Take your time.. Why don't you talk about what your father did for a living. 

38
00:03:30,733 --> 00:03:33,732
Whether you had siblings. So that we can learn a bit about your family. 

39
00:03:33,733 --> 00:03:42,999
JF: My father was actually a shohet {kosher butcher} for ritual reasons. 

40
00:03:43,000 --> 00:03:50,232
But because Shohet {kosher butchering}...was forbidden to Jews, I think in '33.

41
00:03:50,233 --> 00:03:57,999
And he was.. he didn't have any other profession, he became a kind of salesman. 

42
00:03:58,000 --> 00:04:02,432
Which is what most Jews did at that time. 

43
00:04:02,433 --> 00:04:07,499
They didn't have any other choice. 

44
00:04:07,500 --> 00:04:14,999
And that was...we had.. a hard time, hard life.

45
00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:18,666
As a child, I remember now, now I remember.

46
00:04:18,667 --> 00:04:27,999
As a child I suffered greatly from antisemitism. 

47
00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:35,399
As a child...Jew, ugly Jew, go to Palestine, go away. 

48
00:04:35,400 --> 00:04:42,732
in nursery school, I was in day nursery. 

49
00:04:42,733 --> 00:04:43,332
IV: Day nursery. 

50
00:04:43,333 --> 00:04:45,032
JF: Yes, day nursery. 

51
00:04:45,033 --> 00:04:56,666
I sufferered a lot. I was the only Jew in the class, with 40, 45 children. 

52
00:04:56,667 --> 00:05:06,499
Even the Hitler Youth were there. I even had a friend, he sat at my...next to me. 

53
00:05:06,500 --> 00:05:10,432
And he gave me the school...uh..

54
00:05:10,433 --> 00:05:13,799
When I didn't go to school on Saturday. 

55
00:05:13,800 --> 00:05:22,499
Then I went to his house to get the homework. 

56
00:05:22,500 --> 00:05:26,666
But otherwise, at school, uh...

57
00:05:26,667 --> 00:05:36,732
I remember that almost every morning, when we went into the school...in the K5.

58
00:05:36,733 --> 00:05:44,732
In the gym, a large ...gym with red flags and long, thin swastika flags 

59
00:05:44,733 --> 00:05:49,799
And I, a Jew, standing between all the children {swallows}

60
00:05:49,800 --> 00:05:57,832
The feeling...not very...really not very pleasant. 

61
00:05:57,833 --> 00:06:04,999
And...I don't know what else. 

62
00:06:05,000 --> 00:06:09,566
IV: Do you remember a little about the time of the Reichkristallnacht? 

63
00:06:09,567 --> 00:06:14,399
How the situation in Germany changed for you and your family?

64
00:06:14,400 --> 00:06:15,999
JF: Please repeat the question. 

65
00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:23,266
IV: Do you remember how things slowly changed around the time of the Reichkristallnacht? 

66
00:06:23,267 --> 00:06:27,332
In Mannheim, for you as a Jew. 

67
00:06:27,333 --> 00:06:34,466
JF: The change was pretty big, yes. I was scared to go out on the street. 

68
00:06:34,467 --> 00:06:40,599
Because our home, we were very religious. 

69
00:06:40,600 --> 00:06:46,999
As a Jew...child, I always wore a beret.

70
00:06:47,000 --> 00:06:51,899
And my nose...it is not very Aryan. 

71
00:06:51,900 --> 00:06:56,799
So people could recognize me from afar as a Jew. Dirty Jew. 

72
00:06:56,800 --> 00:07:00,532
Get out. Dirty Jew and so on. Many...

73
00:07:00,533 --> 00:07:05,166
So, I always had to go to the other side of the street. 

74
00:07:05,167 --> 00:07:14,999
I remember, on the corner where I lived, H7, that is where the Stürmer was. 

75
00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:19,966
Men were always standing there...many people reading the Stürmer. 

76
00:07:19,967 --> 00:07:29,732
And I...I wasn't allowed to...get close, uh...

77
00:07:29,733 --> 00:07:31,866
My language is not very good. 

78
00:07:31,867 --> 00:07:38,266
I haven't spoken German in 56...65 years. The whole family only speaks Hebrew. 

79
00:07:38,267 --> 00:07:43,999
And I have to ...I translate from ...from Hebrew to German. 

80
00:07:44,000 --> 00:07:46,999
IV: Take your time. I understand you fine. 

81
00:07:47,000 --> 00:07:49,999
And I find, the German is still rather perfect. 

82
00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:52,999
But it is difficult, maybe. 

83
00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:56,999
JF: Uh, well there. 

84
00:07:57,000 --> 00:08:04,732
Each time it got worse. And the fear of going out to the street and...

85
00:08:04,733 --> 00:08:09,899
I remember: On November 10, not even that. 

86
00:08:09,900 --> 00:08:13,599
In Mannheim, I think it was November 10, not the 9th. 

87
00:08:13,600 --> 00:08:16,899
Or the other way around. I am not sure. 

88
00:08:16,900 --> 00:08:23,599
I looked out the window, onto the street. 

89
00:08:23,600 --> 00:08:32,166
My friend ..lived there. His father was a merchant. 

90
00:08:32,167 --> 00:08:41,666
They took everything, the whole inventory, and threw it out the window and set it on fire on the street. 

91
00:08:41,667 --> 00:08:47,399
And I wanted to see... I moved the curtain a bit to the side. 

92
00:08:47,400 --> 00:08:54,999
My mother was terribly scared that they would see that Jews lived here too. 

93
00:08:55,000 --> 00:09:00,432
These kinds of little things were very important. 

94
00:09:00,433 --> 00:09:10,632
They made a big impression on me...I was 14 at the time. 

95
00:09:10,633 --> 00:09:13,232
That was very, very hard, I think. 

96
00:09:13,233 --> 00:09:15,599
If you ask me questions, maybe you have questions.

97
00:09:15,600 --> 00:09:16,166
IV: I ask...

98
00:09:16,167 --> 00:09:18,999
I can ask occasionally in between. 

99
00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:24,999
Did you hope that your situation would be better if you went to Poland?

100
00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:30,899
JF: I don't think I thought about that. Hardly. It was..

101
00:09:30,900 --> 00:09:31,999
IV: Your parents decided. 

102
00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:34,399
JF: Yes, they did. 

103
00:09:34,400 --> 00:09:35,999
Yes. 

104
00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:40,632
And even in Poland it was...the same. 

105
00:09:40,633 --> 00:09:44,266
The Wehrmacht came, then the SS came. 

106
00:09:44,267 --> 00:09:53,266
I worked at the SS in Cracow at the Pravel Tower {means Wawel}

107
00:09:53,267 --> 00:10:00,066
Or what was it called. It was a... the SS had a ...what's that called? A ...

108
00:10:00,067 --> 00:10:02,166
IV: Headquarters or politburo. 

109
00:10:02,167 --> 00:10:05,932
JF: I worked there for them. 

110
00:10:05,933 --> 00:10:10,999
And me, because I spoke German. 

111
00:10:11,000 --> 00:10:20,266
It was somewhat easier for me. But it was the fourth...then later...

112
00:10:20,267 --> 00:10:31,032
Wait... or maybe it was late 39 or late 40...I'm not sure, it was the...

113
00:10:31,033 --> 00:10:42,999
A ghetto was founded in Cracow and my parents tried leave the Cracow ghetto. 

114
00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:53,666
So, I don't know the date exactly. We arrived in a small village or a small town. 

115
00:10:53,667 --> 00:11:01,399
And the Germans were there too and from there I was sent to the camp...First. 

116
00:11:01,400 --> 00:11:03,499
IV: Then you were sent to Plaszow 

117
00:11:03,500 --> 00:11:05,266
Or to another one?

118
00:11:05,267 --> 00:11:14,332
JF: The Pla...that was actually...It was initially a company that...

119
00:11:14,333 --> 00:11:19,499
built streets through the woods. Above and below ground.

120
00:11:19,500 --> 00:11:25,266
Baumer and Loesch. I know that. From there I was sent to the camp in Mielec.

121
00:11:25,267 --> 00:11:31,199
That was a airplane factory. 

122
00:11:31,200 --> 00:11:36,799
I worked there for two years. I went from there to Plaszow.

123
00:11:36,800 --> 00:11:42,866
And (???) there I remember...I can...I am not sure what that was. 

124
00:11:42,867 --> 00:11:47,399
That is a black hole for me. 

125
00:11:47,400 --> 00:11:50,266
And from there I arrived in Flossenbürg. 

126
00:11:50,267 --> 00:11:55,999
IV: What happened to your family during this time? Were you the only one who was sent to the camps? 

127
00:11:56,000 --> 00:11:57,266
What happened to your family?

128
00:11:57,267 --> 00:12:01,932
JF: I had my father, mother...we were five children. 

129
00:12:01,933 --> 00:12:13,666
One...my older sister, she immigrated to Palestine in 1938 around Easter. 

130
00:12:13,667 --> 00:12:20,732
We, my older brother was also in the camps. 

131
00:12:20,733 --> 00:12:23,599
I don't know where.

132
00:12:23,600 --> 00:12:32,499
But he ran away from the camp, the concentration camp and got to Dombrowa. 

133
00:12:32,500 --> 00:12:39,566
And near Drombrowa he was brought back to  the camp and I was brought to the camp.  

134
00:12:39,567 --> 00:12:50,799
And from there, no information, nothing, not from my parents, or from my siblings. 

135
00:12:50,800 --> 00:12:52,999
I don't know. Everyone...

136
00:12:53,000 --> 00:12:54,766
IV: Until today, still nothing? 

137
00:12:54,767 --> 00:12:55,499
JF: Excuse me? 

138
00:12:55,500 --> 00:12:58,832
IV: Until today, you still don't know what happeed to them?

139
00:12:58,833 --> 00:13:04,066
JF: My sister, the older sister, she went to Israel. 

140
00:13:04,067 --> 00:13:11,432
She was around 16 years old. But she fell ill. 

141
00:13:11,433 --> 00:13:19,499
When I came to Israel in 1948, she couldn't believe what was going on. 

142
00:13:19,500 --> 00:13:27,566
She...probably...she...as a child... she was really just a child. And everything, she lost everything. 

143
00:13:27,567 --> 00:13:34,832
And that probably had a psychological impact on her. 

144
00:13:34,833 --> 00:13:44,599
But we... the whole family...no idea where they are. Everyone is gone. 

145
00:13:44,600 --> 00:13:48,699
IV: Ok, why don't you speak a bit about the journey to Flossenbürg. 

146
00:13:48,700 --> 00:13:49,999
How the story began. 

147
00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:53,332
JF: Oh...to Flossenbürg, that I know, yes, there. 

148
00:13:53,333 --> 00:14:03,632
From Plaszow...we were on a train for cattle...not at all meant for people. 

149
00:14:03,633 --> 00:14:13,166
We were inside. Everyone was given a piece of bread. That was around August, as far as I ...

150
00:14:13,167 --> 00:14:19,732
It was terribly hot, no water, no food, nothing. No, no toilet. 

151
00:14:19,733 --> 00:14:23,266
We couldn't get out or in. 

152
00:14:23,267 --> 00:14:29,332
It was terrible. The poeple were in...how do say that, in the wagon, right?

153
00:14:29,333 --> 00:14:30,332
IV: Wagon, yes. 

154
00:14:30,333 --> 00:14:35,899
JF: They died...they died of and uh...horrible. 

155
00:14:35,900 --> 00:14:42,732
A smell.... it was like, it was mass...it was terrible, terrible. So...

156
00:14:42,733 --> 00:14:49,666
It is hard for me, to tell it visually. 

157
00:14:49,667 --> 00:14:51,932
{clears throat}

158
00:14:51,933 --> 00:14:59,099
Uh..to...I don't know how long it took... maybe a week. 

159
00:14:59,100 --> 00:15:02,066
I arrived in Flossenbürg. 

160
00:15:02,067 --> 00:15:08,266
The first thing that happened. Water, water, water, water. We were so thirsty. 

161
00:15:08,267 --> 00:15:14,066
And the water was so, so, so, good. So sweet, so, so...

162
00:15:14,067 --> 00:15:21,899
Still today I am unable to forget the taste of that water. 

163
00:15:21,900 --> 00:15:33,266
And then I was in, they took me to, I think it was Camp Z...uh, in Block 22, for the sick (???).

164
00:15:33,267 --> 00:15:38,999
IV: Do you remember the arrival. What happened when you arrived in the camp. 

165
00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:40,666
What impression that made on you.

166
00:15:40,667 --> 00:15:41,999
JF: That ...the..

167
00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:47,232
The arrival was very.., we had...

168
00:15:47,233 --> 00:15:55,599
First there was the roll-call grounds. From the roll-call grounds we were ...I don't know how long that took.

169
00:15:55,600 --> 00:16:00,699
They took us to the de-lousing center. 

170
00:16:00,700 --> 00:16:07,266
We were there for maybe 24 hours. Everyone was totally naked. 

171
00:16:07,267 --> 00:16:15,899
The, the, the...clothes in a oven...I don't know. 

172
00:16:15,900 --> 00:16:20,899
On hot air, probably against...uh.

173
00:16:20,900 --> 00:16:21,666
IV: Vermin. 

174
00:16:21,667 --> 00:16:23,366
JF: Vermin.

175
00:16:23,367 --> 00:16:29,099
I forgot what they were called. And uh...

176
00:16:29,100 --> 00:16:34,432
I even remember that a man sat there naked on the corner. 

177
00:16:34,433 --> 00:16:39,999
And, and he was screaming the whole time: "I'm not a Jew! I am not a Jew!"

178
00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:45,732
Probably his father, or his grandfather was a Jew. 

179
00:16:45,733 --> 00:16:50,432
To Hitler he was a Jew. But he wasn't really a Jew back then. 

180
00:16:50,433 --> 00:16:57,999
That was the whole time, I remember now, him crying and screamng. 

181
00:16:58,000 --> 00:17:03,866
And that was quite.. Naked for a whole night and a whole day. 

182
00:17:03,867 --> 00:17:07,232
We thought it was, that it was showers.

183
00:17:07,233 --> 00:17:07,999
IV: Showers. 

184
00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:09,499
JF: Showers, yes. 

185
00:17:09,500 --> 00:17:14,399
Yes, in German it is called shower. Uh...

186
00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:23,199
They could wash themselves a bit. But you see, it was just for a certain time. 

187
00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:29,832
It was cold... it was terribly cold. And they called that an oven. 

188
00:17:29,833 --> 00:17:38,499
We stood... a closet...People standing together to warm themselves. 

189
00:17:38,500 --> 00:17:48,732
Everyone naked but everyone warmed themselves on another and so on.

190
00:17:48,733 --> 00:17:51,732
I need some help remembering. 

191
00:17:51,733 --> 00:17:55,066
IV: And then you arrived in Block 2, probably. 

192
00:17:55,067 --> 00:18:04,332
JF: Probably. Block... it was Block 2.. Actually, as far as I know, it was 22 or, or 11. No, Block 11, I think. 

193
00:18:04,333 --> 00:18:08,066
I had it, I think, uh I think...

194
00:18:08,067 --> 00:18:09,499
IV: It is not that important. 

195
00:18:09,500 --> 00:18:09,999
JF: Yes. 

196
00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:14,399
IV: It doesn't... it is more about the total story and not the small details. 

197
00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:23,099
JF: Then there was an roll call. There were three high officers, SS officers.

198
00:18:23,100 --> 00:18:31,999
Were uh, what is that called, the ill, the healthy and what is that called. 

199
00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:39,399
They wrote something on my chest in red.. I don't know what. 

200
00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:42,399
IV: Were you sick too? Or...You were sick at that time, right? 

201
00:18:42,400 --> 00:18:45,066
JF: I know that I was not sick. I was too, too weak. 

202
00:18:45,067 --> 00:18:45,732
IV: Or weak. 

203
00:18:45,733 --> 00:18:51,199
JF: Weak. But I had...probably I had... wasn't, uh...

204
00:18:51,200 --> 00:18:55,899
healthy and strong enough to be sent to work. 

205
00:18:55,900 --> 00:18:57,866
IV: Yes. 

206
00:18:57,867 --> 00:19:02,666
JF: Uh...I was asked what I am. So I said I was...

207
00:19:02,667 --> 00:19:09,399
I had once worked in Mielec in an airplane factory. They said I was a metalworker. 

208
00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:16,666
I wasn't a metalworker but they told me I was...You are a metalworker. So I was a metalworker. And...

209
00:19:16,667 --> 00:19:21,266
then I arrived in a, in Heinkelstra...Uh.

210
00:19:21,267 --> 00:19:25,899
What is that airplaine called? Uh...Henkel or Heinkel. Not Henkel....

211
00:19:25,900 --> 00:19:28,399
IV: Henkel, I think. 

212
00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:33,866
JF: And there, I worked there until, until the liberation. 

213
00:19:33,867 --> 00:19:40,499
I couldn't understand Polish...I didn't know the language. 

214
00:19:40,500 --> 00:19:51,366
But I spoke with a Pole who had been in Germany for a long time and he spoke German.

215
00:19:51,367 --> 00:19:54,999
So he said: "Now you will learn Polish from me." 

216
00:19:55,000 --> 00:20:00,066
He spoke Polish to me. I answered in German. We understond each other that way. 

217
00:20:00,067 --> 00:20:03,332
And, and then I... what did I...

218
00:20:03,333 --> 00:20:09,399
My work was in the fuselage, at the end of the fuselage...

219
00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:15,232
The hole for the axis... the wheel, the 

220
00:20:15,233 --> 00:20:21,499
I had to drill the hole. And, and, and for the hood...

221
00:20:21,500 --> 00:20:30,899
For the pilot I had to...so that they... that the hood stood horizontal, I used a file...

222
00:20:30,900 --> 00:20:37,899
I was probably... I was probably very..I did this well. 

223
00:20:37,900 --> 00:20:45,666
I was also able to to take aluminum ... these columns...

224
00:20:45,667 --> 00:20:51,466
They had to be straightened with a hammer. 

225
00:20:51,467 --> 00:20:55,899
With that I was also, I always helped the other people there. 

226
00:20:55,900 --> 00:21:03,399
And so I made it through with ...hunger ...there I don't need to see. 

227
00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:09,999
The food was a little water. And it was...

228
00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:13,166
If you were lucky, you got a little groat from the bottom. 

229
00:21:13,167 --> 00:21:18,899
And if you were unlucky you got the water from the top. 

230
00:21:18,900 --> 00:21:20,999
 I don't know what I...the food. 

231
00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:26,666
IV: And the housing or the entire situation in camp. You went to work every day. 

232
00:21:26,667 --> 00:21:27,132
JF: Every day.

233
00:21:27,133 --> 00:21:31,666
IV: You must have seen how the others were doing. Many had to work in the quarry. 

234
00:21:31,667 --> 00:21:36,899
How was the situation in general, including the housing in the barracks. 

235
00:21:36,900 --> 00:21:44,266
JF: In the barracks...ah..that was...in the barracks.. that was rather...uh...

236
00:21:44,267 --> 00:21:49,599
Every evening came...we got the soup. And...

237
00:21:49,600 --> 00:22:00,666
We were... we had...we were..we...between four and five people in a bunk. Three levels. 

238
00:22:00,667 --> 00:22:09,899
And ...once one of our comrades... died. 

239
00:22:09,900 --> 00:22:16,499
And before... he was sick and I went and I went and got the soup for him. 

240
00:22:16,500 --> 00:22:22,632
When he died, I didn't tell anyone, I didn't. 

241
00:22:22,633 --> 00:22:28,899
And I brought the soup for him and I ate the soup for about three days, or four days. 

242
00:22:28,900 --> 00:22:33,232
Until he had swelled up. I slept with him. 

243
00:22:33,233 --> 00:22:41,999
He was cold but I continued eating his soup. It was a great adv...

244
00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:42,999
IV: Advantage for you. 

245
00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:45,532
JF: Advantage for me. 

246
00:22:45,533 --> 00:22:51,999
And what else should I tell? That was awful, too.

247
00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:59,732
Those sleeping on top, they had better luck. The ones sleeping on the bottom, those people...

248
00:22:59,733 --> 00:23:06,999
They just urinated in bed and it dripped down on us. 

249
00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:14,466
I experienced so many things like that. 

250
00:23:14,467 --> 00:23:21,399
IV: But it is important to tell them because many people today cannot imagine what the situation was like. 

251
00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:25,466
And that is why little details like that are often so important. 

252
00:23:25,467 --> 00:23:29,166
JF: Yes, yes, yes. 

253
00:23:29,167 --> 00:23:33,666
IV: By then it was... you went through an entire winter in Flossenbürg. 

254
00:23:33,667 --> 00:23:34,266
JF: Yes, that was terr...

255
00:23:34,267 --> 00:23:37,532
IV: What was it like with the cold and the work situation and...

256
00:23:37,533 --> 00:23:39,599
JF: In the factory...

257
00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:53,366
I worked with a plumb, uh that I straightened out the hood with ... what is that called? 

258
00:23:53,367 --> 00:23:55,732
What is it called? What's it called? 

259
00:23:55,733 --> 00:23:57,066
IV: in the perpendicular... right angle (???)

260
00:23:57,067 --> 00:24:05,499
JF: RIght, yes. so that the plumb didn't wiggle, I put it in a can of water

261
00:24:05,500 --> 00:24:09,832
That the water held the can ...the plomb straight. Like a ... 

262
00:24:09,833 --> 00:24:10,999
IV: Like a level.

263
00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:19,332
JF: Right...yes, but really when a drop came on to...

264
00:24:19,333 --> 00:24:25,832
What's it called? Onto the lead, onto the base. That was so cold...it was.  

265
00:24:25,833 --> 00:24:33,766
The drips of water...became ice. That is how cold it was there. 

266
00:24:33,767 --> 00:24:42,999
My feet...we...I.. still today I suffer from my toes that froze. 

267
00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:46,899
IV: had frozen. 

268
00:24:46,900 --> 00:24:54,666
JF: Then I even received beatings, several, not just from uh...

269
00:24:54,667 --> 00:25:00,399
From uh, from uh, from uh from the...what are they called? Kapos. 

270
00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:00,999
IV: Kapos. 

271
00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:07,999
JF: But from Russians, too. They also had...I suffered under them too as a Jew. 

272
00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:10,832
IV: So they were fellow prisoners, the Russians? 

273
00:25:10,833 --> 00:25:11,332
JF: Yes. 

274
00:25:11,333 --> 00:25:12,632
IV: They beat you? 

275
00:25:12,633 --> 00:25:16,966
JF: From every, from all Eur...they were there from all of Europe. 

276
00:25:16,967 --> 00:25:24,232
Czechs, uh, the Czech was such a nice man. He helped me...helped me a lot. 

277
00:25:24,233 --> 00:25:37,399
But (???) Rus..., a Russian, he...me...I got it from him...I always had to run away or hide.

278
00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:49,799
When there was an alarm and the lights went out ... there were people there who were homosexual. 

279
00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:58,999
And I was afraid. I was young. I was probably attractive to them. 

280
00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:05,699
So I always went into the fuselage... and hid there so that they couldn't get me. 

281
00:26:05,700 --> 00:26:15,999
The head Kapo, he was a German... he also had a green... a green...

282
00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:16,499
IV: Triangle. 

283
00:26:16,500 --> 00:26:20,999
JF: Triangle, yes. I had a red triangle, as a Pole. 

284
00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:32,899
And and the first time I entered the barracks, he asked me my name... where I came from. 

285
00:26:32,900 --> 00:26:37,232
When I told him I was from Mannheim: "Ah Frauheim." 

286
00:26:37,233 --> 00:26:43,499
Well, I later learned that he was, he was homosexual. 

287
00:26:43,500 --> 00:26:51,732
And then I had to be careful that he didn't get me. 

288
00:26:51,733 --> 00:27:02,899
Every time, I ... When I was liberated in 1945, I was 20, almost 21, 20 and a half. 

289
00:27:02,900 --> 00:27:07,899
I hadn't shaved yet...even. And I looked like a girl. 

290
00:27:07,900 --> 00:27:14,999
You see, it was pretty dangerous for ... that I not get caught. 

291
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:18,732
What else can I tell you? 

292
00:27:18,733 --> 00:27:25,332
IV: A few inmates were there who tried to flee. 

293
00:27:25,333 --> 00:27:30,566
I have heard that people who tried to flee were shot. 

294
00:27:30,567 --> 00:27:31,899
Did you ever see things like that? Executions or...

295
00:27:31,900 --> 00:27:33,499
JF: I saw things like that. 

296
00:27:33,500 --> 00:27:41,999
Five people were hanged. I was up in the barracks. They did a roll call for us. 

297
00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:46,599
Where we had... everyone had to watch. It was pretty far away. 

298
00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:54,499
But it looked as if they were made of cardboard, out of paper. 

299
00:27:54,500 --> 00:28:00,166
The people, they twisted in the wind. Five people. 

300
00:28:00,167 --> 00:28:09,999
I saw that, yes. It is... hard to forget something like that. 

301
00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:16,399
IV: There was also a crematorium. Were you aware of that? If you could speak about that. 

302
00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:27,499
JF: Crematorium, no, the people were burned there. Yes, but I was lucky that I was never in there. 

303
00:28:27,500 --> 00:28:32,999
Otherwise I wouldn't be here today. Uh...

304
00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:43,832
But they...the, the smoke and the, the, when someone was burned, uh, in...

305
00:28:43,833 --> 00:28:55,999
When something was burning in the crematorium, then that, that, the smell was like uh, hair, like burning hair. 

306
00:28:56,000 --> 00:29:05,899
The whole ...surroundings smelled. Uh...

307
00:29:05,900 --> 00:29:15,499
IV: The whole time in Flossenbürg, what was the most difficult for you? Or the worst? 

308
00:29:15,500 --> 00:29:24,999
JF: The hunger. That was the worst. We, we, among us, we always.. everyone told something. 

309
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:35,332
That uh...we tried to imagine: If I could just get a loaf of bread, a knife...

310
00:29:35,333 --> 00:29:39,999
And I could eat it, as much as I wanted. No one says to me "enough". 

311
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:49,166
That was the most important...I think...think. It is something like...uh...

312
00:29:49,167 --> 00:30:01,899
The worst of all that can happen. The hunger was so strong. Uh...

313
00:30:01,900 --> 00:30:12,732
At the roll call. At roll call...At the roll-call grounds...Sometimes someone uh...

314
00:30:12,733 --> 00:30:21,732
tried to uh, uh, run away. What is that called?

315
00:30:21,733 --> 00:30:23,899
IV: Yes, to flee, or...

316
00:30:23,900 --> 00:30:32,266
JF: Then they made an roll call, uh...

317
00:30:32,267 --> 00:30:42,399
Then the SS came, they took ten men...instead of the one that had run away. So ten men. Every tenth. 

318
00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:48,299
And I stood in the first row. We stood in five rows. I was in the first row. 

319
00:30:48,300 --> 00:30:54,399
And the people, always, they didn't want to be the tenth...and I had no...

320
00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:59,399
Where I was standing, I stayed there. And then (???) uh..

321
00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:07,599
The one to my left, he was the tenth. I was the ninth. The ninth...I am here today. 

322
00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:10,499
IV:  And what happened to the ones who were the tenth. 

323
00:31:10,500 --> 00:31:11,332
JF: They were, they were...

324
00:31:11,333 --> 00:31:18,399
Hanged or burned at the...everything (???). I didn't see everything. 

325
00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:26,999
But people talked about it. I once, I was beaten once. 

326
00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:37,366
I had managed somehow to get some potatoes from somewhere. I had hidden them in my glove. 

327
00:31:37,367 --> 00:31:43,499
They caught me with them. And then I was given, I, on the, ...I was, uh.

328
00:31:43,500 --> 00:31:51,999
I was put on a chair, my pants pulled down and the SS...

329
00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:58,732
Was it six or 20, that can...That happened to me a couple of times. 

330
00:31:58,733 --> 00:32:05,999
One man there, he was called Fuchs, and he also got 100 beatings with me. 

331
00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:13,599
And after the liberation I met him, but.. he was black, uh. from...

332
00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:14,566
What is that called? 

333
00:32:14,567 --> 00:32:15,432
IV: Blood.

334
00:32:15,433 --> 00:32:23,999
JF: Blood. Yes. I could... I had to see all of that. 

335
00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:32,832
You see, it is rather difficult uh.. How many years has it been? It's almost 70 years ago. 

336
00:32:32,833 --> 00:32:34,466
IV: It is almost 70 years, yes. 

337
00:32:34,467 --> 00:32:37,366
JF: It's been 73 years, hasn't it? 

338
00:32:37,367 --> 00:32:47,999
From 45 or so. That was 44 (???). I have forgotten a lot. 

339
00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:55,966
IV: As the liberation was approaching in the spring, did you notice, or did you know that the war was coming to an end?

340
00:32:55,967 --> 00:32:58,266
Was there still hope for liberation? 

341
00:32:58,267 --> 00:32:59,166
JF: Well, it was like this: 

342
00:32:59,167 --> 00:33:06,266
Probably a month, two months, three months earlier... we heard .. uh...

343
00:33:06,267 --> 00:33:12,499
probably canons from the Russians or Americans. We didn't know who was shooting

344
00:33:12,500 --> 00:33:19,399
But bum, bum, bum...(???). We were not given any real information (???).

345
00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:29,999
But that uh.. that...that....we were going to be liberated soon, no one knew...

346
00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:37,999
I can't recall that I thought about anything like that. Uh...

347
00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:43,832
Around...I don't know how long that was, uh.

348
00:33:43,833 --> 00:33:49,999
Maybe a few weeks before the liberation. I was liberated on April 23. 

349
00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:56,332
But that was probably in March, or (???) earlier. 

350
00:33:56,333 --> 00:34:00,466
All the Jews, all the Jews out. 

351
00:34:00,467 --> 00:34:11,566
There were more, almost 3,000 Jews in the entire camp. It was, I think, I heard, there were more than 7,000 people there. 

352
00:34:11,567 --> 00:34:13,999
IV: There were very many at the end, at least. 

353
00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:20,566
JF: We came... we, we marched, we got...

354
00:34:20,567 --> 00:34:28,999
If I remember correctly, we were given a piece of bread or, or, a loaf of bread, I can't remember exactly. 

355
00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:33,066
We went by foot. We...

356
00:34:33,067 --> 00:34:43,499
I had... but I had, had, still today I have a .. I had a large hole on the sole of my foot from uh, from...

357
00:34:43,500 --> 00:34:49,999
Frost bite. With pus and so on. I couldn't walk. Or only with difficulty. 

358
00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:58,932
My.. I had a friend, who helped me to limp...to limp along.

359
00:34:58,933 --> 00:35:07,999
We were five, five rows on both sides. 

360
00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:14,266
We walked ... from both sides we had...so...

361
00:35:14,267 --> 00:35:21,399
The SS were there...from Ukraine too, Ukrainians. 

362
00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:23,999
Each time when someone fell...

363
00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:25,099
IV: Fell. 

364
00:35:25,100 --> 00:35:28,266
JF: bum, bum.. We heard the shot. 

365
00:35:28,267 --> 00:35:32,999
And we, we were. I saw it each time, each time when, 

366
00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:42,732
someone in front of us fell... was shot, then he was on the side of the road. 

367
00:35:42,733 --> 00:35:50,332
He lay there and we, we continued to walk. That was possible. It had nothing to do with us. 

368
00:35:50,333 --> 00:36:01,132
So...we were so.. without any feelings, quasi..We were not human anymore. 

369
00:36:01,133 --> 00:36:05,732
We, we arrived in St..Stamsdo.., Stams.., Stamsdo.., Stams... 

370
00:36:05,733 --> 00:36:06,466
IV: Stamsried. 

371
00:36:06,467 --> 00:36:14,632
JF: Stamsried. We were presented there as robbers... thieves. 

372
00:36:14,633 --> 00:36:15,266
IV: Criminals. 

373
00:36:15,267 --> 00:36:21,599
JF: Criminals. So that the people wouldn't uh...

374
00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:31,299
And, uh, uh, that was at the end when the Americans came. 

375
00:36:31,300 --> 00:36:36,832
I had slept in a barn. 

376
00:36:36,833 --> 00:36:41,332
We stood up ...as the Americans came uh...

377
00:36:41,333 --> 00:36:52,666
From both sides, the, the, the the people stood on the street, the residents of Stamsried and we did too. 

378
00:36:52,667 --> 00:36:59,999
And it... I remember still today, the people called out to the Americans "Ho!" {raise his arm and waves}

379
00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:02,999
And I raised my hand too. Ha...ho...hand up. 

380
00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:10,399
And still today. I can't forget it. I was scared that the Americans might uh...

381
00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:18,399
withdraw and someone reported that I was happy that the Americans were there. 

382
00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:23,899
So  I put my hand down again, out of fear. 

383
00:37:23,900 --> 00:37:29,899
It is hard to understand, hard to explain. 

384
00:37:29,900 --> 00:37:37,499
IV: But in that situation, the guards, the SS men had already fled or had run off. 

385
00:37:37,500 --> 00:37:41,999
JF: I didn't quite understand what you...

386
00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:44,599
IV: In the situation when the Americans arrived.

387
00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:44,832
JF: Yes. 

388
00:37:44,833 --> 00:37:48,766
IV: And you were there too. The population on the one side, and you on the other side. 

389
00:37:48,767 --> 00:37:52,599
But there were the SS guards...beforehand they had somehow...

390
00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:53,266
JF: The, the

391
00:37:53,267 --> 00:37:55,699
that depends... that began differently. 

392
00:37:55,700 --> 00:38:04,699
We, we marched and walked and suddenly I saw on the slope, what is that called? 

393
00:38:04,700 --> 00:38:05,332
IV: Hill. 

394
00:38:05,333 --> 00:38:12,999
JF: An SS man on the hill, who put his hat under his sleeve.  

395
00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:20,099
And it was terribly strange. What is he doing? Why did he go down?

396
00:38:20,100 --> 00:38:26,632
We continued on, further and further. We had left Stamsried. Uh..

397
00:38:26,633 --> 00:38:33,466
And suddenly the people...stopped and we looked around...

398
00:38:33,467 --> 00:38:41,399
We didn't see any guards, no SS, no people. 

399
00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:51,932
And some of the people wanted to get away and me, with my, my foot, it was hard to walk.  

400
00:38:51,933 --> 00:38:58,399
I said...I said to my friend: "I'm going back to Stamsried." (???)

401
00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:03,832
We went back and met the Americans. 

402
00:39:03,833 --> 00:39:08,332
IV: Do you know how many days you had traveled, how long you marched, after you left Flossenbürg...

403
00:39:08,333 --> 00:39:09,532
JF: {shakes head}

404
00:39:09,533 --> 00:39:11,899
IV: Approximately. 

405
00:39:11,900 --> 00:39:19,266
JF: I don't know. Maybe two or three weeks, maybe more. (???) Something like that. 

406
00:39:19,267 --> 00:39:20,599
IV: So a long time, not just a few days. 

407
00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:20,999
JF: Pretty long. 

408
00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:22,332
IV: Rather long. 

409
00:39:22,333 --> 00:39:30,132
JF: Yes, yes, We were then, it was even ... the hunger was so strong...we had uh...

410
00:39:30,133 --> 00:39:35,599
At night, we had... we walked nights. 

411
00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:42,666
And during the day... the, the Germans were scared of, of...

412
00:39:42,667 --> 00:39:44,399
IV: Air raids. Bombardments. 

413
00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:52,266
JF: So we hid in the woods....and so...(???)

414
00:39:52,267 --> 00:39:58,999
I laid down on a field, on snow. 

415
00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:06,199
Water was... we didn't have any, so I ate the snow and drank it like water. 

416
00:40:06,200 --> 00:40:08,599
So much...such

417
00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:13,332
IV: Did you encounter anyone from the local population? You walked through towns. 

418
00:40:13,333 --> 00:40:13,999
You didn't see anyone...the others. 

419
00:40:14,000 --> 00:40:15,399
JF: No, no one else. They had...

420
00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:16,332
IV: At night, they had...

421
00:40:16,333 --> 00:40:23,999
JF: They didn't want any encounters, yes. 

422
00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:27,399
IV: How did... how did the liberation actually take place? 

423
00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:31,266
What happened to you, when the Americans arrived?

424
00:40:31,267 --> 00:40:41,732
JF: That was...it...that was... the liberation was...The Amerians gave me a...I still have the letter today. 

425
00:40:41,733 --> 00:40:47,566
That I was a DP: A displaced person. 

426
00:40:47,567 --> 00:40:55,666
That I was in Stamsried and so on. I think I gave it to Dr....

427
00:40:55,667 --> 00:40:56,899
IV: Skriebeleit.

428
00:40:56,900 --> 00:41:01,699
JF: Yes, I have gave it to him. I am not sure. My wife, perhaps. 

429
00:41:01,700 --> 00:41:12,632
{speaks Hebrew with his wife}

430
00:41:12,633 --> 00:41:20,432
JF: She is not...I probably have it in my room, I think I brought the letter. 

431
00:41:20,433 --> 00:41:24,999
And, where was I? 

432
00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:29,766
IV: Yes, what actually happened at the liberation. You were so weak and sick. 

433
00:41:29,767 --> 00:41:30,399
JF: Yes. 

434
00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:31,066
IV: How did that...

435
00:41:31,067 --> 00:41:31,999
JF: We were...

436
00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:32,632
IV: You were in Stamsried. 

437
00:41:32,633 --> 00:41:39,666
JF: That was...we were...my friend...we were around four, five people.

438
00:41:39,667 --> 00:41:44,999
We, together...they put us (???) 

439
00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:46,666
IV: All together. 

440
00:41:46,667 --> 00:41:47,566
JF: Yes. Exactly. 

441
00:41:47,567 --> 00:41:56,832
And there...my f...one of us...he said...we are going...where are we going? What are we doing? 

442
00:41:56,833 --> 00:42:00,732
You are from Mannheim, good. Then we'll drive to Mannheim. 

443
00:42:00,733 --> 00:42:09,999
So we uh...there was a...not a train... a, a...the Americans had a...

444
00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:15,999
What is that called. A vehicle. Track vehicle. 

445
00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:16,999
IV: Tank. 

446
00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:20,832
JF: Yes, with wheels in front and chains in the back. 

447
00:42:20,833 --> 00:42:30,399
I was in one of those. We had a ...the train drove away to, uh, I don't know where to (???)

448
00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:35,899
In the end we arrived in Frankfurt. I stayed in Frankfurt. 

449
00:42:35,900 --> 00:42:40,866
Mannheim...I didn't want to go there...I had no idea what I should do there. 

450
00:42:40,867 --> 00:42:43,999
I didn't have any family left, none, none...

451
00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:50,999
Although I later went to Frankfurt...went to Mannheim.

452
00:42:51,000 --> 00:43:02,099
The concierge who lived below...Mrs. Keller...was her name. 

453
00:43:02,100 --> 00:43:08,666
And her daughter, she had gone to school with my sister. 

454
00:43:08,667 --> 00:43:19,266
And when she met me...saw me, they invited me...into our...where we had lived...in our flat. 

455
00:43:19,267 --> 00:43:25,666
And they all...they all started to cry. 

456
00:43:25,667 --> 00:43:32,266
That uh, that I came back, back...the only one, the the only one left. 

457
00:43:32,267 --> 00:43:35,666
IV: You were in various DP camps too .

458
00:43:35,667 --> 00:43:35,732
JF: Yes. 

459
00:43:35,733 --> 00:43:39,199
IV: Do you remember where you were and for how long? 

460
00:43:39,200 --> 00:43:45,266
JF: I was almost...about ...over three, three years, three and a half years in D..., DP camp. 

461
00:43:45,267 --> 00:43:54,266
I was in Poland, I was in Mielec, in Wieliczka, in Plaszow and in..

462
00:43:54,267 --> 00:44:05,066
That was, that was the above and below, uh above and below, Company for Above and Below Ground Construction. (???)

463
00:44:05,067 --> 00:44:12,999
Something like that. And that was not a camp, it was just barracks for... that was a bad place for me. 

464
00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:19,732
It was...in the woods. We had to work, uh..

465
00:44:19,733 --> 00:44:30,466
Good air. Food was...there wasn't any. There was also beatings. There was enough work, but there was no calm either. 

466
00:44:30,467 --> 00:44:36,832
So altogether, that was, that was the worst that I had to go through. 

467
00:44:36,833 --> 00:44:46,566
That I even survived that...that is hard to explain that that something like that is possible. 

468
00:44:46,567 --> 00:44:51,732
IV: If you could try to explain, what do you think why it was?

469
00:44:51,733 --> 00:44:52,232
JF: (looks at IV doubtfully) 

470
00:44:52,233 --> 00:44:57,566
IF: Could you try to explain...to reflect: Why is it that I survived? 

471
00:44:57,567 --> 00:45:05,999
What do you think? How can it be? 

472
00:45:06,000 --> 00:45:13,732
JF: I think, the hunger was the worst. The, the, 

473
00:45:13,733 --> 00:45:21,699
Who only, only on...what, what, what will ...will I get something to eat? 

474
00:45:21,700 --> 00:45:26,166
What will tomorrow bring? Will I get food tomorrow? Will I get a piece of bread? 

475
00:45:26,167 --> 00:45:33,032
I think that was the worst...thought. What will come?

476
00:45:33,033 --> 00:45:36,499
I don't think that I thought about that much. 

477
00:45:36,500 --> 00:45:41,999
I cannot remember. The hunger was the worst. 

478
00:45:42,000 --> 00:45:44,399
IV: And that was the impulse to survive. 

479
00:45:44,400 --> 00:45:50,766
Probably, probably. An animalistic impulse. Can you say that. LIke a, like an animal. 

480
00:45:50,767 --> 00:45:57,932
That no longer thinks. It only wants to eat. 

481
00:45:57,933 --> 00:46:01,332
That is what I believe today.

482
00:46:01,333 --> 00:46:09,566
After I was freed and could eat...and was given food...then began...then they...

483
00:46:09,567 --> 00:46:15,266
then I...I began to think. But until then...

484
00:46:15,267 --> 00:46:23,999
I think hardly, uh so...I, I am not so sure, but I think that that was the main reason. 

485
00:46:24,000 --> 00:46:28,699
The animalistic reason, one could say. 

486
00:46:28,700 --> 00:46:37,999
I wanted...I think I was simply an animal...not a human. 

487
00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:45,732
IV: When you were liberated, you were put in DP housing or camp, at first, right? Do you remember?  

488
00:46:45,733 --> 00:47:00,166
JF: After the liberation, uh...I went to Frankfurt. The DP...Zeilsheim...Frankfurt is a camp for DPs. 

489
00:47:00,167 --> 00:47:01,999
IV: Yes. 

490
00:47:02,000 --> 00:47:07,066
JF: But I don't know... why that was. My friends, all my friends, 

491
00:47:07,067 --> 00:47:17,999
heard something about the Americans needing kitchen helpers. 

492
00:47:18,000 --> 00:47:23,999
And kitchen helpers, that was very good since there is food there...you can get food. 

493
00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:32,899
So I signed up there and they accepted me. 

494
00:47:32,900 --> 00:47:42,266
They gave me...clothes, food, housing...the Americans. 

495
00:47:42,267 --> 00:47:50,732
In a ... probably a school, the Americans were rekrid..what is it called? 

496
00:47:50,733 --> 00:47:51,599
IV: Recruiting.

497
00:47:51,600 --> 00:47:53,666
JF: Right. 

498
00:47:53,667 --> 00:48:02,732
For the Allies, for the soldiers, the Allied soldiers. And after that we came to...wait...wait. 

499
00:48:02,733 --> 00:48:08,866
That was the Josephskirchstrasse in Frankfurt. That was a school too. 

500
00:48:08,867 --> 00:48:21,599
And, uh...the Americans set up a kitchen there for the Allied soldiers. Americans, British, all the Allies. 

501
00:48:21,600 --> 00:48:30,332
I worked there for a while, and was extremely lucky...I just remember I had incredible luck. 

502
00:48:30,333 --> 00:48:39,799
I left the work with the Americans and, and...

503
00:48:39,800 --> 00:48:45,166
I had a...not a friend, but a school teacher.

504
00:48:45,167 --> 00:48:48,999
I cannot remember how I came to him. 

505
00:48:49,000 --> 00:48:56,732
He, he, he taught me how to drive. 

506
00:48:56,733 --> 00:48:57,199
IV: Drive a car. 

507
00:48:57,200 --> 00:49:01,399
JF: Drive a car. And, and...

508
00:49:01,400 --> 00:49:07,366
I got a car. A friend must have had the money. I don't know from where. 

509
00:49:07,367 --> 00:49:10,732
He bought a car, I had the driver's license.

510
00:49:10,733 --> 00:49:21,566
And then I had...I got... for the Allies, the Allies...

511
00:49:21,567 --> 00:49:23,999
IV: LIke a taxi. They were allowed to transport people. 

512
00:49:24,000 --> 00:49:25,999
JF: Taxi chauffeur for the Allies. 

513
00:49:26,000 --> 00:49:29,699
And that was very worthwhile. 

514
00:49:29,700 --> 00:49:35,266
I had...I was able to...uh.

515
00:49:35,267 --> 00:49:36,499
How is it called. I could...

516
00:49:36,500 --> 00:49:38,999
IV: Live, make a living. 

517
00:49:39,000 --> 00:49:49,299
JF: Until '48, around '48. After the...Israel...

518
00:49:49,300 --> 00:49:50,666
IV. Founding of the state. 

519
00:49:50,667 --> 00:49:54,999
JF: Then I wanted... I had a sister here, in Israel. 

520
00:49:55,000 --> 00:49:59,399
Then I...I had even signed up to go to America. 

521
00:49:59,400 --> 00:50:10,499
But as a Jew who was born in Germany. I had... the quota for...

522
00:50:10,500 --> 00:50:15,332
To immigrate to America, there was a small quota and, and, 

523
00:50:15,333 --> 00:50:25,399
and only a few people came... I was given permission to immigrate very quickly. 

524
00:50:25,400 --> 00:50:33,399
But on the other hand, I wanted to go to my sister. 

525
00:50:33,400 --> 00:50:38,332
That was very interesting. 

526
00:50:38,333 --> 00:50:43,632
I worked for the Americans and served food. 

527
00:50:43,633 --> 00:50:51,066
There was a Jewish soldier from the brigade from Israel, from Palestine.

528
00:50:51,067 --> 00:50:53,999
He brought me a letter from my sister. 

529
00:50:54,000 --> 00:51:01,832
How he found me...I knew him from before the war. 

530
00:51:01,833 --> 00:51:07,499
And he found me, I don't know. He brought me the letter. 

531
00:51:07,500 --> 00:51:13,399
When I read the letter my sister had written, that she, she, she, 

532
00:51:13,400 --> 00:51:19,432
that she would like me to come...

533
00:51:19,433 --> 00:51:27,999
And then, suddenly, on the spot, I made the decision to go to Israel. 

534
00:51:28,000 --> 00:51:37,366
And after about... It took a few weeks, before it was actually possible

535
00:51:37,367 --> 00:51:44,499
for me to immigrate to Israel. But it was not legal. 

536
00:51:44,500 --> 00:51:57,866
The British had...had...that was like Bernadotte, what's his name? 

537
00:51:57,867 --> 00:52:07,666
A Swede.. from the UN, the UN, well...

538
00:52:07,667 --> 00:52:19,432
In any case, I signed up and then...illegally, I got on a boat.

539
00:52:19,433 --> 00:52:20,032
IV: Ship. 

540
00:52:20,033 --> 00:52:24,432
JF: Ship. It wasn't a ship, it was a boat. We were 300 people. 

541
00:52:24,433 --> 00:52:33,832
From, I think from Trieste or from Naples, I don't know exactly. From where. To, to Haifa. 

542
00:52:33,833 --> 00:52:44,032
It took around, if I remember correctly, it took about 12 days before I got there. 

543
00:52:44,033 --> 00:52:57,832
And then, the military took me.  And I became a Jewish soldier. 

544
00:52:57,833 --> 00:53:01,732
IV: And later you...you saw your sister...

545
00:53:01,733 --> 00:53:02,266
JF: Pardon? 

546
00:53:02,267 --> 00:53:05,899
IV: Later you met your sister there again, who lived there?

547
00:53:05,900 --> 00:53:14,332
JF: I met my sister. She was sick then. Right, she was sick, she was in an...institution. 

548
00:53:14,333 --> 00:53:20,332
And she lived until 15 years ago in an institution and 

549
00:53:20,333 --> 00:53:26,999
She wasn't married...she.. she wasn't a normal person anymore. 

550
00:53:27,000 --> 00:53:27,999
IV: Because she was mentally...

551
00:53:28,000 --> 00:53:28,799
JF: Mentally...

552
00:53:28,800 --> 00:53:29,732
IV:...mentally ill. 

553
00:53:29,733 --> 00:53:30,099
JF: That was...

554
00:53:30,100 --> 00:53:33,299
IV. happened because of the situation. 

555
00:53:33,300 --> 00:53:39,066
JF: That was very... the only.. I had left. (???)

556
00:53:39,067 --> 00:53:43,732
What, what was left...uh all the rest of the family was gone: 

557
00:53:43,733 --> 00:53:47,666
Father, mother, the others, all the siblings.

558
00:53:47,667 --> 00:53:56,732
O...grandfather, two grandmothers, all gone. Uncles, aunts, all gone. 

559
00:53:56,733 --> 00:54:01,999
IV: Did you later try to find out what happened to them?

560
00:54:02,000 --> 00:54:07,099
JF: The...my wife didn't...often said. 

561
00:54:07,100 --> 00:54:15,999
I always thought..., thought about, because the whole family knew that the sister was in, in Palestine.  

562
00:54:16,000 --> 00:54:21,999
So anyone left, would know that he could come to Palestine. 

563
00:54:22,000 --> 00:54:30,399
And that...can...and that we could all meet again... 

564
00:54:30,400 --> 00:54:40,266
That is why I ...in my view there was no point in searching.

565
00:54:40,267 --> 00:54:45,732
Yes, maybe that was a mistake, I don't know. 

566
00:54:45,733 --> 00:54:47,266
But until today, no one has contacted me.

567
00:54:47,267 --> 00:54:49,266
IV: No one contacted. 

568
00:54:49,267 --> 00:54:54,066
Then you went to the military. What happened then? You joined the military in Israel. 

569
00:54:54,067 --> 00:55:01,999
JF: After the military, afterwards I went to a a kibbutz after the military. 

570
00:55:02,000 --> 00:55:09,899
Then after the military...now I am having a blackout. {laughs}.

571
00:55:09,900 --> 00:55:12,666
IV: Would you like to take a sip of water? A break? 

572
00:55:12,667 --> 00:55:13,066
JF: Pardon?

573
00:55:13,067 --> 00:55:14,232
IV: Would you to take a break and a sip of water?

574
00:55:14,233 --> 00:55:15,332
JF: Yes. Yes. 

575
00:55:15,333 --> 00:55:18,232
IV: You were in Israel. You were in a kibbutz. 

576
00:55:18,233 --> 00:55:21,266
Why don't talk a bit about how that developed. 

577
00:55:21,267 --> 00:55:26,999
You made a family. Just talk a bit about your life, how things evolved in Israel.  

578
00:55:27,000 --> 00:55:50,332
JF: Uh, after the liberation, after the liberation from uh, the military uh Na (???) 

579
00:55:50,333 --> 00:55:51,332
Blackout. 

580
00:55:51,333 --> 00:55:53,266
IV: Yes. Take some time to think about it. 

581
00:55:53,267 --> 00:55:57,332
Maybe you have to translate it. 

582
00:55:57,333 --> 00:56:01,932
What happened after you were released from the military in Israel. 

583
00:56:01,933 --> 00:56:15,332
JF: The whole time I have..(???) Now I am...(???) also thinking about, uh, what happened before, before I came to Israel. 

584
00:56:15,333 --> 00:56:27,332
I...this is...I have first to...to erase that. 

585
00:56:27,333 --> 00:57:04,966
{speaks Hebrew with son and wife}

586
00:57:04,967 --> 00:57:07,232
JF: He reminded me... he reminded me.

587
00:57:07,233 --> 00:57:07,332
IV: Good. 

588
00:57:07,333 --> 00:57:18,666
JF: We were uh...we were four friends from the military. 

589
00:57:18,667 --> 00:57:29,766
After the liberation from the military we went to Holon (???), now far from Tel Aviv. 

590
00:57:29,767 --> 00:57:36,399
In the south of Tel Aviv. Together we uh...

591
00:57:36,400 --> 00:57:45,266
Lived in one, in one room, rented a room. 

592
00:57:45,267 --> 00:57:49,999
And...

593
00:57:50,000 --> 00:57:53,999
Well...

594
00:57:54,000 --> 00:58:00,366
What did I experience there?

595
00:58:00,367 --> 00:58:00,999
IV: You don't have to...

596
00:58:01,000 --> 00:58:02,499
JF: Uh...we had, right...

597
00:58:02,500 --> 00:58:09,666
We, uh, had a driver's license.

598
00:58:09,667 --> 00:58:14,532
A friend, he had money. I never had, never had money. 

599
00:58:14,533 --> 00:58:20,499
But at least I had hands and was good with my hands. An uh...

600
00:58:20,500 --> 00:58:26,899
I was able... I had a driver's license, here in Israel too...uh...

601
00:58:26,900 --> 00:58:28,932
IV: It was valid in Israel. 

602
00:58:28,933 --> 00:58:37,732
JF: And then we had a car and...car...

603
00:58:37,733 --> 00:58:40,332
What...what happened to me?

604
00:58:40,333 --> 00:58:44,066
{wife speaks to him in Hebrew}

605
00:58:44,067 --> 00:58:53,999
JF: Yes, the friend...now I remember...I had forgotten the license (???).

606
00:58:54,000 --> 00:59:06,066
My friend, he was a good, uh...he was a ...worked as a... 

607
00:59:06,067 --> 00:59:14,032
He worked for..I can't remember how to say it in German. Uh...

608
00:59:14,033 --> 00:59:22,399
He, he had connections with uh, with...to find work for me. 

609
00:59:22,400 --> 00:59:25,666
But I didn't have a profession

610
00:59:25,667 --> 00:59:36,266
The man, uh, the man, he taught me welding. 

611
00:59:36,267 --> 00:59:40,732
What is that called, uh pank..What is that called? 

612
00:59:40,733 --> 00:59:41,066
Son: Lathe.

613
00:59:41,067 --> 00:59:45,166
JF: Lathe, on a lathe uh...what is...

614
00:59:45,167 --> 00:59:46,999
IV: Work, simply... to work. 

615
00:59:47,000 --> 00:59:48,999
JF: to work. 

616
00:59:49,000 --> 00:59:53,566
And he had...I made friends there. 

617
00:59:53,567 --> 00:59:57,899
I acquired friendships there, or how is it said. 

618
00:59:57,900 --> 01:00:04,499
And later they accepted me into a cooperative. 

619
01:00:04,500 --> 01:00:10,232
As a metalworker, as...I was there a long...

620
01:00:10,233 --> 01:00:19,999
I began as a metalworker, and then I became...what is that called? 

621
01:00:20,000 --> 01:00:24,232
That is a Mi..was a welder...What is that called?

622
01:00:24,233 --> 01:00:24,899
IV: Welding.

623
01:00:24,900 --> 01:00:28,866
JF: Welder, not one that...

624
01:00:28,867 --> 01:00:37,666
And over time I took courses...courses on electricity. 

625
01:00:37,667 --> 01:00:53,266
And I was ...over time I became a member of the cooperative. And...

626
01:00:53,267 --> 01:01:01,732
I was rather...I had a good status in the cooperative. I was a ...

627
01:01:01,733 --> 01:01:10,499
I left the cooperative when ...

628
01:01:10,500 --> 01:01:17,566
Not an engineer...no Abitur...but I had...

629
01:01:17,567 --> 01:01:22,999
taken courses and I was a ....

630
01:01:23,000 --> 01:01:25,666
JF: {speaks Hebrew with son}, son: advisor.

631
01:01:25,667 --> 01:01:28,332
JF: Advisor. What is that called in German?

632
01:01:28,333 --> 01:01:32,066
IV: I am not sure. Trainer perhaps, or...

633
01:01:32,067 --> 01:01:38,999
JF: For, for the entire factory..we were nearly 100 people. 

634
01:01:39,000 --> 01:01:48,066
And I came...I had...whoever had something...what is that called?

635
01:01:48,067 --> 01:01:56,732
With the job...real difficulties. Or didn't know something, or...

636
01:01:56,733 --> 01:02:01,399
I don't know many many of the words...

637
01:02:01,400 --> 01:02:06,999
And I earned a good salary there at the time.

638
01:02:07,000 --> 01:02:21,599
And then I had a ...friend who had a brother or his sister-in-law ...

639
01:02:21,600 --> 01:02:31,299
At that time.. I didn't know... I didn't have ... how do you say? 

640
01:02:31,300 --> 01:02:33,266
I hadn't known any girls. 

641
01:02:33,267 --> 01:02:34,066
IV: So no relationship...

642
01:02:34,067 --> 01:02:35,166
JF: Had no relationship with

643
01:02:35,167 --> 01:02:35,499
IV: Relationship with women...

644
01:02:35,500 --> 01:02:37,899
JF: with, with wom...with women. 

645
01:02:37,900 --> 01:02:42,066
And the sister-in-law, she knew my wife. 

646
01:02:42,067 --> 01:02:46,332
And the friend, he knew me..we had...

647
01:02:46,333 --> 01:02:50,166
They had...between us. How do you say that? A...

648
01:02:50,167 --> 01:02:52,999
IV: Well in Germany we would say "matched up". 

649
01:02:53,000 --> 01:02:55,566
JF: matched up until today.

650
01:02:55,567 --> 01:02:57,066
IV: Congratulations. 

651
01:02:57,067 --> 01:03:02,366
JF: We have been married for 65 years. 

652
01:03:02,367 --> 01:03:03,066
IV: Children?

653
01:03:03,067 --> 01:03:12,999
JF: Children...we have three children, yes. My son is here and my two grandchildren are here too. 

654
01:03:13,000 --> 01:03:17,066
IV: Did you, after you made a family...

655
01:03:17,067 --> 01:03:24,666
DId you ever speak about the past in the concentration camps and work camps? 

656
01:03:24,667 --> 01:03:29,466
JF: In the beginning I couldn't talk about it. 

657
01:03:29,467 --> 01:03:32,332
For years I was unable to..

658
01:03:32,333 --> 01:03:41,999
And when I saw something on television, a film or something...

659
01:03:42,000 --> 01:03:47,266
I couldn't watch it. Now it is easier for me.

660
01:03:47,267 --> 01:03:57,632
I am now much calmer, psychologically calmer. But the but...

661
01:03:57,633 --> 01:04:02,732
For many years I was unable. My wife, she...

662
01:04:02,733 --> 01:04:07,666
My wife, she had me...nights...I used to scream. I shook. 

663
01:04:07,667 --> 01:04:16,066
It took many many years. Now I have become much calmer. 

664
01:04:16,067 --> 01:04:19,899
Sometimes I still get...

665
01:04:19,900 --> 01:04:20,399
IV: Upset. 

666
01:04:20,400 --> 01:04:23,299
JF: Upset, yes. 

667
01:04:23,300 --> 01:04:33,166
But otherwise...we have a good life. My wife understands me. 

668
01:04:33,167 --> 01:04:37,299
IV: Did you ever receive compensation from Germany?

669
01:04:37,300 --> 01:04:37,999
For the time you were imprisoned.

670
01:04:38,000 --> 01:04:42,566
JF: Yes. I even received 3,000 Mark for my father. 

671
01:04:42,567 --> 01:04:49,999
For my mother 3,000 Mark. Because my parents were murdered. 

672
01:04:50,000 --> 01:04:55,732
I received...today I receive a...what is it called?

673
01:04:55,733 --> 01:04:56,166
Pension?

674
01:04:56,167 --> 01:04:57,499
IV: Pension. 

675
01:04:57,500 --> 01:05:05,899
JF: Pension of 400 Mark...400 Euro...And...

676
01:05:05,900 --> 01:05:12,266
But I, I manage today, I don't have any...

677
01:05:12,267 --> 01:05:16,832
I have children, they all studied. 

678
01:05:16,833 --> 01:05:20,999
The grandchildren too, they all study now and...

679
01:05:21,000 --> 01:05:24,999
Thank God, I am, I am content. 

680
01:05:25,000 --> 01:05:32,999
IV: Where did you get the idea to travel back to Germany and to go to Flossenbürg? 

681
01:05:33,000 --> 01:05:40,999
JF: I thought about...why this happened to me. 

682
01:05:41,000 --> 01:05:49,832
My son, I think... we were...wanted to make the trip and...

683
01:05:49,833 --> 01:06:13,133
Excuse me. I'll ask my son {speaks Hebrew with son}