IV: Test
CM: Rolling.
IV: Uhm
IV: Today is Friday, July 19, 2013. We are in Hotel Admira in Weiden in the Upper Palatinate.
My name is Michael Aue from Medienwerkstatt Franken.
I am now conducting an interview with Mr. Jakob Fassler, who lives in Israel, was born in Mannheim and
who was in the Flossenbürg concentration camp and who is going to tell his story now.
CM: (???)
IV: Ok. Are you? If you are ready.
CM: Yes.
IV: Mr. Fassler, before we get to the whole story of camp imprisonment,
I would like you to tell me a bit about your childhood and youth.
Where you were born, about your family, how you grew up.
JF: Well, I was born in Mannheim in 1924.
As a child I attended elementary school L..., L1 or L2, K5.
As of the 5th grade, instead of going to a Gymnasium [upper school]
which was banned to Jews.. Gymnasium.
But the Jewish community had a, had a...
actually it founded its own school.
And it was a Jewish school to,
until November 9 or 10...1938. That was the Kristallnacht.
My father was Austri, uh Austri...
IV: Austrian.
JF: Austrian.
But he probably didn't have a passport.
He was expelled as a Pole on October 28, 1938.
My mother and we children stayed in Mannheim until June 15, 1939.
Then we were.. we had to...
My mother wanted to see my father...
And she was given a red stamp, that's how it was called, in the ... to immigrate to Poland.
We went to Poland a few weeks before the war broke out.
About six weeks before September 1, 1939, I think, that is when the war began.
And then, uh, and then the Germans...the soldiers, and we were in...
My father was born in Cracow and...
There we had.. It is a bit...it is hard for me...
to tell it chronologically.
IV: You don't have to. Take your time.. Why don't you talk about what your father did for a living.
Whether you had siblings. So that we can learn a bit about your family.
JF: My father was actually a shohet {kosher butcher} for ritual reasons.
But because Shohet {kosher butchering}...was forbidden to Jews, I think in '33.
And he was.. he didn't have any other profession, he became a kind of salesman.
Which is what most Jews did at that time.
They didn't have any other choice.
And that was...we had.. a hard time, hard life.
As a child, I remember now, now I remember.
As a child I suffered greatly from antisemitism.
As a child...Jew, ugly Jew, go to Palestine, go away.
in nursery school, I was in day nursery.
IV: Day nursery.
JF: Yes, day nursery.
I sufferered a lot. I was the only Jew in the class, with 40, 45 children.
Even the Hitler Youth were there. I even had a friend, he sat at my...next to me.
And he gave me the school...uh..
When I didn't go to school on Saturday.
Then I went to his house to get the homework.
But otherwise, at school, uh...
I remember that almost every morning, when we went into the school...in the K5.
In the gym, a large ...gym with red flags and long, thin swastika flags
And I, a Jew, standing between all the children {swallows}
The feeling...not very...really not very pleasant.
And...I don't know what else.
IV: Do you remember a little about the time of the Reichkristallnacht?
How the situation in Germany changed for you and your family?
JF: Please repeat the question.
IV: Do you remember how things slowly changed around the time of the Reichkristallnacht?
In Mannheim, for you as a Jew.
JF: The change was pretty big, yes. I was scared to go out on the street.
Because our home, we were very religious.
As a Jew...child, I always wore a beret.
And my nose...it is not very Aryan.
So people could recognize me from afar as a Jew. Dirty Jew.
Get out. Dirty Jew and so on. Many...
So, I always had to go to the other side of the street.
I remember, on the corner where I lived, H7, that is where the Stürmer was.
Men were always standing there...many people reading the Stürmer.
And I...I wasn't allowed to...get close, uh...
My language is not very good.
I haven't spoken German in 56...65 years. The whole family only speaks Hebrew.
And I have to ...I translate from ...from Hebrew to German.
IV: Take your time. I understand you fine.
And I find, the German is still rather perfect.
But it is difficult, maybe.
JF: Uh, well there.
Each time it got worse. And the fear of going out to the street and...
I remember: On November 10, not even that.
In Mannheim, I think it was November 10, not the 9th.
Or the other way around. I am not sure.
I looked out the window, onto the street.
My friend ..lived there. His father was a merchant.
They took everything, the whole inventory, and threw it out the window and set it on fire on the street.
And I wanted to see... I moved the curtain a bit to the side.
My mother was terribly scared that they would see that Jews lived here too.
These kinds of little things were very important.
They made a big impression on me...I was 14 at the time.
That was very, very hard, I think.
If you ask me questions, maybe you have questions.
IV: I ask...
I can ask occasionally in between.
Did you hope that your situation would be better if you went to Poland?
JF: I don't think I thought about that. Hardly. It was..
IV: Your parents decided.
JF: Yes, they did.
Yes.
And even in Poland it was...the same.
The Wehrmacht came, then the SS came.
I worked at the SS in Cracow at the Pravel Tower {means Wawel}
Or what was it called. It was a... the SS had a ...what's that called? A ...
IV: Headquarters or politburo.
JF: I worked there for them.
And me, because I spoke German.
It was somewhat easier for me. But it was the fourth...then later...
Wait... or maybe it was late 39 or late 40...I'm not sure, it was the...
A ghetto was founded in Cracow and my parents tried leave the Cracow ghetto.
So, I don't know the date exactly. We arrived in a small village or a small town.
And the Germans were there too and from there I was sent to the camp...First.
IV: Then you were sent to Plaszow
Or to another one?
JF: The Pla...that was actually...It was initially a company that...
built streets through the woods. Above and below ground.
Baumer and Loesch. I know that. From there I was sent to the camp in Mielec.
That was a airplane factory.
I worked there for two years. I went from there to Plaszow.
And (???) there I remember...I can...I am not sure what that was.
That is a black hole for me.
And from there I arrived in Flossenbürg.
IV: What happened to your family during this time? Were you the only one who was sent to the camps?
What happened to your family?
JF: I had my father, mother...we were five children.
One...my older sister, she immigrated to Palestine in 1938 around Easter.
We, my older brother was also in the camps.
I don't know where.
But he ran away from the camp, the concentration camp and got to Dombrowa.
And near Drombrowa he was brought back to the camp and I was brought to the camp.
And from there, no information, nothing, not from my parents, or from my siblings.
I don't know. Everyone...
IV: Until today, still nothing?
JF: Excuse me?
IV: Until today, you still don't know what happeed to them?
JF: My sister, the older sister, she went to Israel.
She was around 16 years old. But she fell ill.
When I came to Israel in 1948, she couldn't believe what was going on.
She...probably...she...as a child... she was really just a child. And everything, she lost everything.
And that probably had a psychological impact on her.
But we... the whole family...no idea where they are. Everyone is gone.
IV: Ok, why don't you speak a bit about the journey to Flossenbürg.
How the story began.
JF: Oh...to Flossenbürg, that I know, yes, there.
From Plaszow...we were on a train for cattle...not at all meant for people.
We were inside. Everyone was given a piece of bread. That was around August, as far as I ...
It was terribly hot, no water, no food, nothing. No, no toilet.
We couldn't get out or in.
It was terrible. The poeple were in...how do say that, in the wagon, right?
IV: Wagon, yes.
JF: They died...they died of and uh...horrible.
A smell.... it was like, it was mass...it was terrible, terrible. So...
It is hard for me, to tell it visually.
{clears throat}
Uh..to...I don't know how long it took... maybe a week.
I arrived in Flossenbürg.
The first thing that happened. Water, water, water, water. We were so thirsty.
And the water was so, so, so, good. So sweet, so, so...
Still today I am unable to forget the taste of that water.
And then I was in, they took me to, I think it was Camp Z...uh, in Block 22, for the sick (???).
IV: Do you remember the arrival. What happened when you arrived in the camp.
What impression that made on you.
JF: That ...the..
The arrival was very.., we had...
First there was the roll-call grounds. From the roll-call grounds we were ...I don't know how long that took.
They took us to the de-lousing center.
We were there for maybe 24 hours. Everyone was totally naked.
The, the, the...clothes in a oven...I don't know.
On hot air, probably against...uh.
IV: Vermin.
JF: Vermin.
I forgot what they were called. And uh...
I even remember that a man sat there naked on the corner.
And, and he was screaming the whole time: "I'm not a Jew! I am not a Jew!"
Probably his father, or his grandfather was a Jew.
To Hitler he was a Jew. But he wasn't really a Jew back then.
That was the whole time, I remember now, him crying and screamng.
And that was quite.. Naked for a whole night and a whole day.
We thought it was, that it was showers.
IV: Showers.
JF: Showers, yes.
Yes, in German it is called shower. Uh...
They could wash themselves a bit. But you see, it was just for a certain time.
It was cold... it was terribly cold. And they called that an oven.
We stood... a closet...People standing together to warm themselves.
Everyone naked but everyone warmed themselves on another and so on.
I need some help remembering.
IV: And then you arrived in Block 2, probably.
JF: Probably. Block... it was Block 2.. Actually, as far as I know, it was 22 or, or 11. No, Block 11, I think.
I had it, I think, uh I think...
IV: It is not that important.
JF: Yes.
IV: It doesn't... it is more about the total story and not the small details.
JF: Then there was an roll call. There were three high officers, SS officers.
Were uh, what is that called, the ill, the healthy and what is that called.
They wrote something on my chest in red.. I don't know what.
IV: Were you sick too? Or...You were sick at that time, right?
JF: I know that I was not sick. I was too, too weak.
IV: Or weak.
JF: Weak. But I had...probably I had... wasn't, uh...
healthy and strong enough to be sent to work.
IV: Yes.
JF: Uh...I was asked what I am. So I said I was...
I had once worked in Mielec in an airplane factory. They said I was a metalworker.
I wasn't a metalworker but they told me I was...You are a metalworker. So I was a metalworker. And...
then I arrived in a, in Heinkelstra...Uh.
What is that airplaine called? Uh...Henkel or Heinkel. Not Henkel....
IV: Henkel, I think.
JF: And there, I worked there until, until the liberation.
I couldn't understand Polish...I didn't know the language.
But I spoke with a Pole who had been in Germany for a long time and he spoke German.
So he said: "Now you will learn Polish from me."
He spoke Polish to me. I answered in German. We understond each other that way.
And, and then I... what did I...
My work was in the fuselage, at the end of the fuselage...
The hole for the axis... the wheel, the
I had to drill the hole. And, and, and for the hood...
For the pilot I had to...so that they... that the hood stood horizontal, I used a file...
I was probably... I was probably very..I did this well.
I was also able to to take aluminum ... these columns...
They had to be straightened with a hammer.
With that I was also, I always helped the other people there.
And so I made it through with ...hunger ...there I don't need to see.
The food was a little water. And it was...
If you were lucky, you got a little groat from the bottom.
And if you were unlucky you got the water from the top.
I don't know what I...the food.
IV: And the housing or the entire situation in camp. You went to work every day.
JF: Every day.
IV: You must have seen how the others were doing. Many had to work in the quarry.
How was the situation in general, including the housing in the barracks.
JF: In the barracks...ah..that was...in the barracks.. that was rather...uh...
Every evening came...we got the soup. And...
We were... we had...we were..we...between four and five people in a bunk. Three levels.
And ...once one of our comrades... died.
And before... he was sick and I went and I went and got the soup for him.
When he died, I didn't tell anyone, I didn't.
And I brought the soup for him and I ate the soup for about three days, or four days.
Until he had swelled up. I slept with him.
He was cold but I continued eating his soup. It was a great adv...
IV: Advantage for you.
JF: Advantage for me.
And what else should I tell? That was awful, too.
Those sleeping on top, they had better luck. The ones sleeping on the bottom, those people...
They just urinated in bed and it dripped down on us.
I experienced so many things like that.
IV: But it is important to tell them because many people today cannot imagine what the situation was like.
And that is why little details like that are often so important.
JF: Yes, yes, yes.
IV: By then it was... you went through an entire winter in Flossenbürg.
JF: Yes, that was terr...
IV: What was it like with the cold and the work situation and...
JF: In the factory...
I worked with a plumb, uh that I straightened out the hood with ... what is that called?
What is it called? What's it called?
IV: in the perpendicular... right angle (???)
JF: RIght, yes. so that the plumb didn't wiggle, I put it in a can of water
That the water held the can ...the plomb straight. Like a ...
IV: Like a level.
JF: Right...yes, but really when a drop came on to...
What's it called? Onto the lead, onto the base. That was so cold...it was.
The drips of water...became ice. That is how cold it was there.
My feet...we...I.. still today I suffer from my toes that froze.
IV: had frozen.
JF: Then I even received beatings, several, not just from uh...
From uh, from uh, from uh from the...what are they called? Kapos.
IV: Kapos.
JF: But from Russians, too. They also had...I suffered under them too as a Jew.
IV: So they were fellow prisoners, the Russians?
JF: Yes.
IV: They beat you?
JF: From every, from all Eur...they were there from all of Europe.
Czechs, uh, the Czech was such a nice man. He helped me...helped me a lot.
But (???) Rus..., a Russian, he...me...I got it from him...I always had to run away or hide.
When there was an alarm and the lights went out ... there were people there who were homosexual.
And I was afraid. I was young. I was probably attractive to them.
So I always went into the fuselage... and hid there so that they couldn't get me.
The head Kapo, he was a German... he also had a green... a green...
IV: Triangle.
JF: Triangle, yes. I had a red triangle, as a Pole.
And and the first time I entered the barracks, he asked me my name... where I came from.
When I told him I was from Mannheim: "Ah Frauheim."
Well, I later learned that he was, he was homosexual.
And then I had to be careful that he didn't get me.
Every time, I ... When I was liberated in 1945, I was 20, almost 21, 20 and a half.
I hadn't shaved yet...even. And I looked like a girl.
You see, it was pretty dangerous for ... that I not get caught.
What else can I tell you?
IV: A few inmates were there who tried to flee.
I have heard that people who tried to flee were shot.
Did you ever see things like that? Executions or...
JF: I saw things like that.
Five people were hanged. I was up in the barracks. They did a roll call for us.
Where we had... everyone had to watch. It was pretty far away.
But it looked as if they were made of cardboard, out of paper.
The people, they twisted in the wind. Five people.
I saw that, yes. It is... hard to forget something like that.
IV: There was also a crematorium. Were you aware of that? If you could speak about that.
JF: Crematorium, no, the people were burned there. Yes, but I was lucky that I was never in there.
Otherwise I wouldn't be here today. Uh...
But they...the, the smoke and the, the, when someone was burned, uh, in...
When something was burning in the crematorium, then that, that, the smell was like uh, hair, like burning hair.
The whole ...surroundings smelled. Uh...
IV: The whole time in Flossenbürg, what was the most difficult for you? Or the worst?
JF: The hunger. That was the worst. We, we, among us, we always.. everyone told something.
That uh...we tried to imagine: If I could just get a loaf of bread, a knife...
And I could eat it, as much as I wanted. No one says to me "enough".
That was the most important...I think...think. It is something like...uh...
The worst of all that can happen. The hunger was so strong. Uh...
At the roll call. At roll call...At the roll-call grounds...Sometimes someone uh...
tried to uh, uh, run away. What is that called?
IV: Yes, to flee, or...
JF: Then they made an roll call, uh...
Then the SS came, they took ten men...instead of the one that had run away. So ten men. Every tenth.
And I stood in the first row. We stood in five rows. I was in the first row.
And the people, always, they didn't want to be the tenth...and I had no...
Where I was standing, I stayed there. And then (???) uh..
The one to my left, he was the tenth. I was the ninth. The ninth...I am here today.
IV: And what happened to the ones who were the tenth.
JF: They were, they were...
Hanged or burned at the...everything (???). I didn't see everything.
But people talked about it. I once, I was beaten once.
I had managed somehow to get some potatoes from somewhere. I had hidden them in my glove.
They caught me with them. And then I was given, I, on the, ...I was, uh.
I was put on a chair, my pants pulled down and the SS...
Was it six or 20, that can...That happened to me a couple of times.
One man there, he was called Fuchs, and he also got 100 beatings with me.
And after the liberation I met him, but.. he was black, uh. from...
What is that called?
IV: Blood.
JF: Blood. Yes. I could... I had to see all of that.
You see, it is rather difficult uh.. How many years has it been? It's almost 70 years ago.
IV: It is almost 70 years, yes.
JF: It's been 73 years, hasn't it?
From 45 or so. That was 44 (???). I have forgotten a lot.
IV: As the liberation was approaching in the spring, did you notice, or did you know that the war was coming to an end?
Was there still hope for liberation?
JF: Well, it was like this:
Probably a month, two months, three months earlier... we heard .. uh...
probably canons from the Russians or Americans. We didn't know who was shooting
But bum, bum, bum...(???). We were not given any real information (???).
But that uh.. that...that....we were going to be liberated soon, no one knew...
I can't recall that I thought about anything like that. Uh...
Around...I don't know how long that was, uh.
Maybe a few weeks before the liberation. I was liberated on April 23.
But that was probably in March, or (???) earlier.
All the Jews, all the Jews out.
There were more, almost 3,000 Jews in the entire camp. It was, I think, I heard, there were more than 7,000 people there.
IV: There were very many at the end, at least.
JF: We came... we, we marched, we got...
If I remember correctly, we were given a piece of bread or, or, a loaf of bread, I can't remember exactly.
We went by foot. We...
I had... but I had, had, still today I have a .. I had a large hole on the sole of my foot from uh, from...
Frost bite. With pus and so on. I couldn't walk. Or only with difficulty.
My.. I had a friend, who helped me to limp...to limp along.
We were five, five rows on both sides.
We walked ... from both sides we had...so...
The SS were there...from Ukraine too, Ukrainians.
Each time when someone fell...
IV: Fell.
JF: bum, bum.. We heard the shot.
And we, we were. I saw it each time, each time when,
someone in front of us fell... was shot, then he was on the side of the road.
He lay there and we, we continued to walk. That was possible. It had nothing to do with us.
So...we were so.. without any feelings, quasi..We were not human anymore.
We, we arrived in St..Stamsdo.., Stams.., Stamsdo.., Stams...
IV: Stamsried.
JF: Stamsried. We were presented there as robbers... thieves.
IV: Criminals.
JF: Criminals. So that the people wouldn't uh...
And, uh, uh, that was at the end when the Americans came.
I had slept in a barn.
We stood up ...as the Americans came uh...
From both sides, the, the, the the people stood on the street, the residents of Stamsried and we did too.
And it... I remember still today, the people called out to the Americans "Ho!" {raise his arm and waves}
And I raised my hand too. Ha...ho...hand up.
And still today. I can't forget it. I was scared that the Americans might uh...
withdraw and someone reported that I was happy that the Americans were there.
So I put my hand down again, out of fear.
It is hard to understand, hard to explain.
IV: But in that situation, the guards, the SS men had already fled or had run off.
JF: I didn't quite understand what you...
IV: In the situation when the Americans arrived.
JF: Yes.
IV: And you were there too. The population on the one side, and you on the other side.
But there were the SS guards...beforehand they had somehow...
JF: The, the
that depends... that began differently.
We, we marched and walked and suddenly I saw on the slope, what is that called?
IV: Hill.
JF: An SS man on the hill, who put his hat under his sleeve.
And it was terribly strange. What is he doing? Why did he go down?
We continued on, further and further. We had left Stamsried. Uh..
And suddenly the people...stopped and we looked around...
We didn't see any guards, no SS, no people.
And some of the people wanted to get away and me, with my, my foot, it was hard to walk.
I said...I said to my friend: "I'm going back to Stamsried." (???)
We went back and met the Americans.
IV: Do you know how many days you had traveled, how long you marched, after you left Flossenbürg...
JF: {shakes head}
IV: Approximately.
JF: I don't know. Maybe two or three weeks, maybe more. (???) Something like that.
IV: So a long time, not just a few days.
JF: Pretty long.
IV: Rather long.
JF: Yes, yes, We were then, it was even ... the hunger was so strong...we had uh...
At night, we had... we walked nights.
And during the day... the, the Germans were scared of, of...
IV: Air raids. Bombardments.
JF: So we hid in the woods....and so...(???)
I laid down on a field, on snow.
Water was... we didn't have any, so I ate the snow and drank it like water.
So much...such
IV: Did you encounter anyone from the local population? You walked through towns.
You didn't see anyone...the others.
JF: No, no one else. They had...
IV: At night, they had...
JF: They didn't want any encounters, yes.
IV: How did... how did the liberation actually take place?
What happened to you, when the Americans arrived?
JF: That was...it...that was... the liberation was...The Amerians gave me a...I still have the letter today.
That I was a DP: A displaced person.
That I was in Stamsried and so on. I think I gave it to Dr....
IV: Skriebeleit.
JF: Yes, I have gave it to him. I am not sure. My wife, perhaps.
{speaks Hebrew with his wife}
JF: She is not...I probably have it in my room, I think I brought the letter.
And, where was I?
IV: Yes, what actually happened at the liberation. You were so weak and sick.
JF: Yes.
IV: How did that...
JF: We were...
IV: You were in Stamsried.
JF: That was...we were...my friend...we were around four, five people.
We, together...they put us (???)
IV: All together.
JF: Yes. Exactly.
And there...my f...one of us...he said...we are going...where are we going? What are we doing?
You are from Mannheim, good. Then we'll drive to Mannheim.
So we uh...there was a...not a train... a, a...the Americans had a...
What is that called. A vehicle. Track vehicle.
IV: Tank.
JF: Yes, with wheels in front and chains in the back.
I was in one of those. We had a ...the train drove away to, uh, I don't know where to (???)
In the end we arrived in Frankfurt. I stayed in Frankfurt.
Mannheim...I didn't want to go there...I had no idea what I should do there.
I didn't have any family left, none, none...
Although I later went to Frankfurt...went to Mannheim.
The concierge who lived below...Mrs. Keller...was her name.
And her daughter, she had gone to school with my sister.
And when she met me...saw me, they invited me...into our...where we had lived...in our flat.
And they all...they all started to cry.
That uh, that I came back, back...the only one, the the only one left.
IV: You were in various DP camps too .
JF: Yes.
IV: Do you remember where you were and for how long?
JF: I was almost...about ...over three, three years, three and a half years in D..., DP camp.
I was in Poland, I was in Mielec, in Wieliczka, in Plaszow and in..
That was, that was the above and below, uh above and below, Company for Above and Below Ground Construction. (???)
Something like that. And that was not a camp, it was just barracks for... that was a bad place for me.
It was...in the woods. We had to work, uh..
Good air. Food was...there wasn't any. There was also beatings. There was enough work, but there was no calm either.
So altogether, that was, that was the worst that I had to go through.
That I even survived that...that is hard to explain that that something like that is possible.
IV: If you could try to explain, what do you think why it was?
JF: (looks at IV doubtfully)
IF: Could you try to explain...to reflect: Why is it that I survived?
What do you think? How can it be?
JF: I think, the hunger was the worst. The, the,
Who only, only on...what, what, what will ...will I get something to eat?
What will tomorrow bring? Will I get food tomorrow? Will I get a piece of bread?
I think that was the worst...thought. What will come?
I don't think that I thought about that much.
I cannot remember. The hunger was the worst.
IV: And that was the impulse to survive.
Probably, probably. An animalistic impulse. Can you say that. LIke a, like an animal.
That no longer thinks. It only wants to eat.
That is what I believe today.
After I was freed and could eat...and was given food...then began...then they...
then I...I began to think. But until then...
I think hardly, uh so...I, I am not so sure, but I think that that was the main reason.
The animalistic reason, one could say.
I wanted...I think I was simply an animal...not a human.
IV: When you were liberated, you were put in DP housing or camp, at first, right? Do you remember?
JF: After the liberation, uh...I went to Frankfurt. The DP...Zeilsheim...Frankfurt is a camp for DPs.
IV: Yes.
JF: But I don't know... why that was. My friends, all my friends,
heard something about the Americans needing kitchen helpers.
And kitchen helpers, that was very good since there is food there...you can get food.
So I signed up there and they accepted me.
They gave me...clothes, food, housing...the Americans.
In a ... probably a school, the Americans were rekrid..what is it called?
IV: Recruiting.
JF: Right.
For the Allies, for the soldiers, the Allied soldiers. And after that we came to...wait...wait.
That was the Josephskirchstrasse in Frankfurt. That was a school too.
And, uh...the Americans set up a kitchen there for the Allied soldiers. Americans, British, all the Allies.
I worked there for a while, and was extremely lucky...I just remember I had incredible luck.
I left the work with the Americans and, and...
I had a...not a friend, but a school teacher.
I cannot remember how I came to him.
He, he, he taught me how to drive.
IV: Drive a car.
JF: Drive a car. And, and...
I got a car. A friend must have had the money. I don't know from where.
He bought a car, I had the driver's license.
And then I had...I got... for the Allies, the Allies...
IV: LIke a taxi. They were allowed to transport people.
JF: Taxi chauffeur for the Allies.
And that was very worthwhile.
I had...I was able to...uh.
How is it called. I could...
IV: Live, make a living.
JF: Until '48, around '48. After the...Israel...
IV. Founding of the state.
JF: Then I wanted... I had a sister here, in Israel.
Then I...I had even signed up to go to America.
But as a Jew who was born in Germany. I had... the quota for...
To immigrate to America, there was a small quota and, and,
and only a few people came... I was given permission to immigrate very quickly.
But on the other hand, I wanted to go to my sister.
That was very interesting.
I worked for the Americans and served food.
There was a Jewish soldier from the brigade from Israel, from Palestine.
He brought me a letter from my sister.
How he found me...I knew him from before the war.
And he found me, I don't know. He brought me the letter.
When I read the letter my sister had written, that she, she, she,
that she would like me to come...
And then, suddenly, on the spot, I made the decision to go to Israel.
And after about... It took a few weeks, before it was actually possible
for me to immigrate to Israel. But it was not legal.
The British had...had...that was like Bernadotte, what's his name?
A Swede.. from the UN, the UN, well...
In any case, I signed up and then...illegally, I got on a boat.
IV: Ship.
JF: Ship. It wasn't a ship, it was a boat. We were 300 people.
From, I think from Trieste or from Naples, I don't know exactly. From where. To, to Haifa.
It took around, if I remember correctly, it took about 12 days before I got there.
And then, the military took me. And I became a Jewish soldier.
IV: And later you...you saw your sister...
JF: Pardon?
IV: Later you met your sister there again, who lived there?
JF: I met my sister. She was sick then. Right, she was sick, she was in an...institution.
And she lived until 15 years ago in an institution and
She wasn't married...she.. she wasn't a normal person anymore.
IV: Because she was mentally...
JF: Mentally...
IV:...mentally ill.
JF: That was...
IV. happened because of the situation.
JF: That was very... the only.. I had left. (???)
What, what was left...uh all the rest of the family was gone:
Father, mother, the others, all the siblings.
O...grandfather, two grandmothers, all gone. Uncles, aunts, all gone.
IV: Did you later try to find out what happened to them?
JF: The...my wife didn't...often said.
I always thought..., thought about, because the whole family knew that the sister was in, in Palestine.
So anyone left, would know that he could come to Palestine.
And that...can...and that we could all meet again...
That is why I ...in my view there was no point in searching.
Yes, maybe that was a mistake, I don't know.
But until today, no one has contacted me.
IV: No one contacted.
Then you went to the military. What happened then? You joined the military in Israel.
JF: After the military, afterwards I went to a a kibbutz after the military.
Then after the military...now I am having a blackout. {laughs}.
IV: Would you like to take a sip of water? A break?
JF: Pardon?
IV: Would you to take a break and a sip of water?
JF: Yes. Yes.
IV: You were in Israel. You were in a kibbutz.
Why don't talk a bit about how that developed.
You made a family. Just talk a bit about your life, how things evolved in Israel.
JF: Uh, after the liberation, after the liberation from uh, the military uh Na (???)
Blackout.
IV: Yes. Take some time to think about it.
Maybe you have to translate it.
What happened after you were released from the military in Israel.
JF: The whole time I have..(???) Now I am...(???) also thinking about, uh, what happened before, before I came to Israel.
I...this is...I have first to...to erase that.
{speaks Hebrew with son and wife}
JF: He reminded me... he reminded me.
IV: Good.
JF: We were uh...we were four friends from the military.
After the liberation from the military we went to Holon (???), now far from Tel Aviv.
In the south of Tel Aviv. Together we uh...
Lived in one, in one room, rented a room.
And...
Well...
What did I experience there?
IV: You don't have to...
JF: Uh...we had, right...
We, uh, had a driver's license.
A friend, he had money. I never had, never had money.
But at least I had hands and was good with my hands. An uh...
I was able... I had a driver's license, here in Israel too...uh...
IV: It was valid in Israel.
JF: And then we had a car and...car...
What...what happened to me?
{wife speaks to him in Hebrew}
JF: Yes, the friend...now I remember...I had forgotten the license (???).
My friend, he was a good, uh...he was a ...worked as a...
He worked for..I can't remember how to say it in German. Uh...
He, he had connections with uh, with...to find work for me.
But I didn't have a profession
The man, uh, the man, he taught me welding.
What is that called, uh pank..What is that called?
Son: Lathe.
JF: Lathe, on a lathe uh...what is...
IV: Work, simply... to work.
JF: to work.
And he had...I made friends there.
I acquired friendships there, or how is it said.
And later they accepted me into a cooperative.
As a metalworker, as...I was there a long...
I began as a metalworker, and then I became...what is that called?
That is a Mi..was a welder...What is that called?
IV: Welding.
JF: Welder, not one that...
And over time I took courses...courses on electricity.
And I was ...over time I became a member of the cooperative. And...
I was rather...I had a good status in the cooperative. I was a ...
I left the cooperative when ...
Not an engineer...no Abitur...but I had...
taken courses and I was a ....
JF: {speaks Hebrew with son}, son: advisor.
JF: Advisor. What is that called in German?
IV: I am not sure. Trainer perhaps, or...
JF: For, for the entire factory..we were nearly 100 people.
And I came...I had...whoever had something...what is that called?
With the job...real difficulties. Or didn't know something, or...
I don't know many many of the words...
And I earned a good salary there at the time.
And then I had a ...friend who had a brother or his sister-in-law ...
At that time.. I didn't know... I didn't have ... how do you say?
I hadn't known any girls.
IV: So no relationship...
JF: Had no relationship with
IV: Relationship with women...
JF: with, with wom...with women.
And the sister-in-law, she knew my wife.
And the friend, he knew me..we had...
They had...between us. How do you say that? A...
IV: Well in Germany we would say "matched up".
JF: matched up until today.
IV: Congratulations.
JF: We have been married for 65 years.
IV: Children?
JF: Children...we have three children, yes. My son is here and my two grandchildren are here too.
IV: Did you, after you made a family...
DId you ever speak about the past in the concentration camps and work camps?
JF: In the beginning I couldn't talk about it.
For years I was unable to..
And when I saw something on television, a film or something...
I couldn't watch it. Now it is easier for me.
I am now much calmer, psychologically calmer. But the but...
For many years I was unable. My wife, she...
My wife, she had me...nights...I used to scream. I shook.
It took many many years. Now I have become much calmer.
Sometimes I still get...
IV: Upset.
JF: Upset, yes.
But otherwise...we have a good life. My wife understands me.
IV: Did you ever receive compensation from Germany?
For the time you were imprisoned.
JF: Yes. I even received 3,000 Mark for my father.
For my mother 3,000 Mark. Because my parents were murdered.
I received...today I receive a...what is it called?
Pension?
IV: Pension.
JF: Pension of 400 Mark...400 Euro...And...
But I, I manage today, I don't have any...
I have children, they all studied.
The grandchildren too, they all study now and...
Thank God, I am, I am content.
IV: Where did you get the idea to travel back to Germany and to go to Flossenbürg?
JF: I thought about...why this happened to me.
My son, I think... we were...wanted to make the trip and...
Excuse me. I'll ask my son {speaks Hebrew with son}