WEBVTT

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IV: Heute ist Freitag, der 19. Juli. Wir sind in Weiden in der Oberpfalz, im Hotel Admira.

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Ich bin Michael Aue von der Medienwerkstatt Franken.

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Und ich führe jetzt ein Interview mit Max Glauben, der am 14.5.1926 in Warschau geboren wurde,

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äh, mehrere Konzentrationslager überlebte, davon wird er uns heute erzählen,

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und der heute in Dallas lebt.

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MG: The only one thing that you got the 26th from the records in Flossenbürg

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but I was only born in 1928.

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January 14 1928.

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Because - probably I was very useful.

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I was very good as a car.., in a carpenter shop, as a patternmaker

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for the Heinkel and the Messerschmitt aircraft.

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Precision work, so somebody made me older.

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IV: But now in your passport is written..?

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MG: 1930.

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IV: 1930? You made yourself younger, coming to the US.

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MG: Anyways.

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IV: Anyway, we're not going to talk about this.

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MG: No.

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IV: Okay, may I call you Max?

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MG: By all means, it's fine.

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IV: I've just been to the States, and so everybody is like "Hello, I'm - "

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MG: Yeah, yeah, that's - it's kind of friendly.

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IV: Well, let's begin with the story. You've been born in Warschau.

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MG: Warsaw.

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IV: Maybe you can tell us a little bit about your family, how you grew up, the first years you can remember?

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MG: Well, ah, I was born in Warsaw, Poland.

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And we lived in a basically Jewish neighbourhood.

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In fact, it is a famous street.

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I lived on Miła 38, apartment 43.

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There were two Miłas, one was narrow, where Miła 18 was.

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And one was a little bit newer Miła which was wider.

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We lived on the fourth floor and ah, there were close to 500 apartments there.

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My father was involved with the Jewish publication, das "Jüdische Tagblatt".

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And ah, that was located on Leszno 40.

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And as a youngster, I used to go and loved to use the linotype machines

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where you print out your name.

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And you pull a lever and some letters come up.

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And ah, bucket with lead comes out and spills it in and makes a column of a newspaper in a Jewish publication.

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And.. my ah, dad of course was there. My mom was a housewife.

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And then I had one little brother that was a couple of years younger than I was and that was a modern type of family.

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The newspaper was not a real religious newspaper.

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But a new way of life because people were starting to immigrate to Israel where Zionism really started.

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So there was a branch of the religion that became (???). 

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Which means, did away with the beards and the long sideburns.

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Many articles that they wore as attire for recognition according to the five books of Moses.

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Everything was peaceful, we lived a normal life.

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I went to school and being prepared for possible immigration to at that time Palestine, there was no Israel then.

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So what they did that, when you went to a school, the school was Atid {hebrew: "future"} and it's, it's been perpetuated right now in some of the synagogues in the United States.

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In my case everything was in Hebrew.

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So otherwise you spoke Polish in the class

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but geography, arithmetic, everything was taught in Hebrew

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preparing you in the new Hebrew - like it's spoken in Israel.

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Everything was fine and then the, we were middle-aged family.

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We had ah, somebody that took care of my brother and me when my mother might have gone shopping.

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Then immediately on September 1st 1939, without any notice, of course Germany invaded Poland.

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Within one month and a couple of days,

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after us being aware that they destroyed 85% of all the structures in Poland and Warsaw was hit worse than that

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because its population was 30% Jewish.

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And the Germans knew it and we lived in a German neighbourhood.

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So everything was pretty bombed out.

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And ah...

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One can not image what it is to have your house or a part of the apartment, you know, damaged.

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So even though we may not have been the actual casualties

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but all our equipment that is necessary to sustain life like utilities were taken away from us.

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So.. during the period later on that the Ghetto was established,

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we drank water that was run off of the roof.

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We loved snow because everywhere you want, you can pick up the snow.

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And put it in your bathtub or in your sink after plugging it up and you had clear water like that.

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Electricity - no. We used candles.

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Then we were making carbide lamps.

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And I don't know if you know carbide lamp, you know, there's carbide on the bottom

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and then the water drips down, then the flame comes out.

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And we manifactured those in the ghetto later on.

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But anyways, life became miserable because first, the Germans made us register.

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Then, if you did register and you were below a certain age, they didn't want you.

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The kids couldn't go to school. And they were the first victims.

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And the same with the elderly and the handicapped, they became the first victims.

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They were the roots of Judaism.

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They obeyed the Jewish laws of which, I don't know if you know how many we have - 613 laws, good and bad in the five books of Moses.

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So, psychologically, they picked on them and they were the first victims with the kids.

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Because if somebody hurts your family, everybody in the family gets humiliated and hurts.

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So that's what they did with Judaism, so all the Jewish people can feel depressed.

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They were mistreated on the streets.

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And ah, there may be little known facts, that if a German soldier went into the Jewish area

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and walked on the sidewalk and let's say, I was walking towards him,

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if I had a hat, I had to take it off.

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And if I came close to him, I had to step off the sidewalk

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and let him - {walking cane falls down} there you go.

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And let him, and let him, ah, you know, pass by like that.

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And looting became a daily routine when the soldiers would take anything away from you that you have

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because the laws that were made in '33 and '35 by the German Third Reich with Hitler, took away any right

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that a Jewish person had, away from them.

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We couldn't own any property, we couldn't go for higher education.

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We couldn't hold, CEO positions in Germany and the same thing when...

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The stores were sometimes blocked, not to allow anybody to go in.

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And sometimes people were made - the stores were taken away and sold to somebody else.

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Then, with some of the money that was confiscated and looted (???) and they could come in in the middle of the night, you know, into our apartments.

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And take people for immoral purposes and also do that.

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With that money, the bricks that were used for the Jews to build the wall around their own Ghetto

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was money that was confiscated from the Jewish people.

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Then the people that lived in that area had to build the 10-foot-ghetto

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which had approximately 24 openings which were guarded by a German soldier, a Polish policeman.

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And during the period of the building between '39 and '40,

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there was a typhoid epidemic in the area where the Ghetto was designed.

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It's a one square mile area and that was designed by the Germans right next to the Jewish cemetary and also the railroad yards,

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then that's designated as a "Umschlagplatz" for gathering the people, then putting them on boxcars.

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When the epidemic started and my brother and I - may he rest in peace - had typhoid.

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The Germans were not allowed to go into that area.

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So they made the "Judenreich" {means: "Judenrat"} which was like a city council of a rabbi, Czarnecki {means: Czerniaków}, there was one person that was the head.

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They made him appoint 2000 Jewish Kapos, policemen,

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to do the internal works of the Ghetto under the German command

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because they didn't want to catch the diseases in the Ghetto.

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And some of them were worse to us than the SS because they feared for their own safety.

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Or maybe they were compensated with food or other things or blackmailed that their families would be killed if they don't perfom the duty.

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What can I tell you. There were no stores to buy anything in there..

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There were markets inside, there was bartering with diamonds, something of value could be exchanged for a piece of bread.

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The ration that a Jew got in the Warsaw Ghetto if he was allowed to be a living human in the Ghetto, because if he was a child or an elderly, they couldn't work or they had to hide, got 184 kalories a day.

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Sometimes a family of eight - two sets of grandparents, a mom and a dad and two children - had to eat on the two rations

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that the mum and dad could bring in from a factory

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or from being on a job where they give him a little slip to go to a commissary and pick up that food

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if it was brought in to be distributed.

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Because into that one sqare mile, they placed fif- five- half a million, 500.000 people.

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A half a million people.

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Each room in the Ghetto six, seven people. Each Room!

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There were no apartments big enough to hold a whole family.

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Because it was only eight people, so you always had (???) or children

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that were left in hiding by the people that they took on boxcars to the two places from Warsaw.

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That was Treblinka and Majdanek.

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We lived like that until 1942.

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In 1942, there was declared at an early part of the year,

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I cannot give you all the details, but I'm just going chronologically,

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the "Final Solution" came out and you know, the "Final Solution" was of what Hitler wrote in jail

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while he was there after he tried to do a party to overthrow the new democratic German government after the Kaiser.

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Well, he didn't say he's going to kill us all, he said "I'm going to destroy you all."

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That's why "Kristallnacht", that's why burning of the books and that's what he was doing to us.

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It's just taking all our possessions, burning our places of living,

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burning our businesses, burning the synagogues.

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Completely to destroy us.

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Well, anyways, the command came out and ah, sometimes, you don't know what is going on

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but there's also a part of history that we sometimes don't disclose

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because if you go back to 1939, when Germany invaded Poland without any notice,

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what did Russia do?

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Germany took the eas-, the western part of Poland.

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Russia took -

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Germany the western part, I got west and east mixed up -

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and Russia took the Ukraine and the eastern part of Germany.

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The two armies met, signed an non-aggression pact.

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Germany broke the non-aggression pact, invaded Russia, went up to Stalingrad, lost a whole Panzerdivision.

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Italy invaded before 1942, before France, there was an invasion in Italy.

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And they got with Mussolini and Italy, they started fighting over there.

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So, maybe the command thought that the German government was crumbling, you know.

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That had an attempt on Hitler's life, you know, with internal problems.

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So that's why declared and started taking out more than five to six thousand people daily from Warsaw - that's all I can tell you about - to Treblinka, Majdanek.

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Treblinka operating on, with, and why I noticed from my trips each year there.

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They were gassing people with disassembled Russians engines out of the tanks, put pipes to them.

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And they were gassing the Jews with Russian engines, so it wasn't such an efficient way.

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Then was Auschwitz-Birkenau and their capacity was maybe 300 or so people an hour.

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The ovens were not, you know, burning not fast enough or disposing of the bodies fast enough.

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So, they put the people in the barracks and they put them in stalls like cattle with barbed wire.

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Portable buildings, that's how we were brought in out of the Warsaw Ghetto, into Majdanek.

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IV: Excuse me, Max, maybe I ask you a favour.

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So, you know a lot of history but for me, it would be better to focus on your personal experience.

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MG: Okay!

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IV: I think that's the interesting - you were a witness.

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And so that means just telling what happened to you.

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What you remember being a child in the Ghetto and the personal, the way of you and your family.

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MG: Well, I told you, well, we lived in the Ghetto and on Miła Street.

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And I lived during the duration in the Ghetto but why I lived there,

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all these things were happening, so what I was bringing up that some of the people started escaping back to the Ghetto.

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In the meantime, myself with the elderly, we become smugglers.

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And all during this time, we tried to bring in additional food to the Ghetto.

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My father is involved with a.. a.. it's a wood - ah, the word has escaped..

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There, on the Miła 38, there was a coal and wood supply.

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They had a horse and they had a waggon, so they were doing smuggling on this waggon.

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And I was instrumental with that to bring in smuggled foods on the waggons.

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The waggons would go out with wares that were made in the Warsaw Ghetto by the Jews for Germany.

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And bringing in materials that would be converted in the boxes that resembled the materials that they were bringing in,

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we would put in items that were dehydrated that could be used for food in the Ghetto.

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So, this was part what I did.

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My father was instrumental in going out sometimes as a coachman, sometimes just sitting next with a trip ticket of the items that we were doing.

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So, when the people started again escaping from the place, they told the Underground and the smugglers and everybody of what was happening.

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Thus, we started bringing in items that could be used for military warfare into the Ghetto and I was instrumental in that.

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With my family.

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And we all lived together.

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In fact, one of these aunts that lived with me is 93 years old and lives in Philadelphia now.

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Because she lived with us and after 42 years found me in Dallas.

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Cause she was taken to an ammunition factory.

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But anyways, so we lived in the Ghetto until the uprising on April 19.

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When the uprising occured, we all went into camouflaged basements.

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My family and I and my aunts and everybody.

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And in this camouflaged basements, we did have some supplies, like sugar cubes that we could chew on to eat.

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And then we turned day into night.

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We slept in the daytime, went out in the evening and with the rubbish that we collected from the ruins, we would start fires

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and cook maybe - Poland is real big for potatoes, so we had potatoes and some of the rice and beans that were smuggled in into the Ghetto.

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That's how we lived until the, the Germans tried to penetrate the gates of the Ghetto.

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From the beginning, there were twenty-some, by that time, when the uprising occured, there were only 15 gates.

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But they couldn't penetrate, so in the end, they got an order, around May 26,

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they came in with flamethrowers, napalm flamethrowers and burned

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so many of the places where we were hiding became gravesites.

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And we hid there and hid there and hid there.

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Finally, we got discovered by them listening with listening devices.

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They threw a handgranade, either to finish them off or to create an opening.

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They got us out, raised our hands up, disrobe- disrobed us and searched us in crevices of our body.

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Mom, dad, aunts, uncles, grandparents, just humiliation.

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Allowed us to get our clothes on, then took us to the "Umschlagplatz".

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Marched us there, and put us on a boxcar.

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The boxcar was placed on a siding after riding on the tracks for a while.

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And we stayed there for five days, without any food, without any water.

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More than a hundred people on there, not quietly.

210
00:25:17.500 --> 00:25:22.432
No facility for any human waste.

211
00:25:22.433 --> 00:25:31.799
But I looked out a little window and there was a tree with birds chirping, sky blue as ever.

212
00:25:31.800 --> 00:25:39.532
I'm inside here, with no food, for nothing. I didn't do anything.

213
00:25:39.533 --> 00:25:44.299
It's just like, if you are accused of doing something and you didn't do it.

214
00:25:44.300 --> 00:26:00.732
But the things were so noisy and unbelievably, you could never think that one human being can do something to another human being.

215
00:26:00.733 --> 00:26:06.699
In fact, the roof was like a lid on a boiling pot of water with little pieces of water.

216
00:26:06.700 --> 00:26:17.866
And people were trying to wet their lips in order to just - it's harder to die from thirst than it is from there.

217
00:26:17.867 --> 00:26:26.466
So finally, after five days, the train stops and I personally see "Lublin".

218
00:26:26.467 --> 00:26:31.966
So all the time that I was in Majdanek, I thought I was in Lublin.

219
00:26:31.967 --> 00:26:34.899
Because there was no sign "Majdanek".

220
00:26:34.900 --> 00:26:37.299
So we were off-loaded.

221
00:26:37.300 --> 00:26:48.099
Then we waited, for - they off-loaded us at night, maybe like two kilometres from the main entrance to Majdanek.

222
00:26:48.100 --> 00:26:57.899
As they loaded us off, they put us five abreast, women, children, everybody, and waiting.

223
00:26:57.900 --> 00:26:59.532
We didn't know why we were waiting.

224
00:26:59.533 --> 00:27:07.332
They were setting up a checkline with requisitions of how many people here and how many people there.

225
00:27:07.333 --> 00:27:15.999
And as we were going down, they pick up - first, they say "Women and children".

226
00:27:16.000 --> 00:27:21.232
So I proceed and my father stopped.

227
00:27:21.233 --> 00:27:26.099
And I'm in front of my father, he grabs my hand, says "stay with me."

228
00:27:26.100 --> 00:27:37.966
And they didn't object and they selected 150 people that were working in a manufacturing place, aircraft manifacturing in Warsaw.

229
00:27:37.967 --> 00:27:44.832
And they sent him and me to Budzyń and this is documented on the Internet.

230
00:27:44.833 --> 00:27:47.832
I just looked it up..

231
00:27:47.833 --> 00:27:50.999
Budzyń, the worst camp that I was in.

232
00:27:51.000 --> 00:28:00.632
And we went there and I'm not going to tell you about the indoctrination.

233
00:28:00.633 --> 00:28:04.732
But everything that I'm going to tell you now is going to be personal.

234
00:28:04.733 --> 00:28:11.266
It's the Warsaw Ghetto, we lived as a family, so we had to obey by some of the rules

235
00:28:11.267 --> 00:28:17.332
that were made for the others that's why I was telling you the story of what brought some of the (???)

236
00:28:17.333 --> 00:28:21.932
So anyways, there, we would, there would...

237
00:28:21.933 --> 00:28:28.766
First, when we came in, we came into a room, you had to disrobe in a corner.

238
00:28:28.767 --> 00:28:40.666
Then they had volunteers or people maybe that were barbers that would shave the hair under your arm and around you whatever.

239
00:28:40.667 --> 00:28:46.632
And then clip it with a Number One on top of the head and a Zero in the middle.

240
00:28:46.633 --> 00:28:57.199
Then, we would go into the showers and get a little soap with lye or with, old brown soap.

241
00:28:57.200 --> 00:29:05.999
And then, you may get a minute and a half or two minutes water, five or six or seven people under one shower.

242
00:29:06.000 --> 00:29:12.332
Then they give you a little bit more water and then if you didn't wash off, they took a fire hose.

243
00:29:12.333 --> 00:29:21.566
The pressure killed some of the people, all of them were laying on top, it was a mount of human beings.

244
00:29:21.567 --> 00:29:24.499
So that's what I went through.

245
00:29:24.500 --> 00:29:33.399
Then after that, you went to a room and they had DDT which is outlawed now and sprayed it all over your body.

246
00:29:33.400 --> 00:29:41.032
But you never used a towel to wipe yourself off and that stuff stuck to you and then made sores afterwards.

247
00:29:41.033 --> 00:29:49.632
And then you went on to another room and they threw you a shirt and a pair of pants if it was May.

248
00:29:49.633 --> 00:29:52.499
In the winter time, maybe a jacket.

249
00:29:52.500 --> 00:29:57.532
And a pair of clogs because you left your good shoes over there.

250
00:29:57.533 --> 00:30:08.866
Now the procedure would be if we would have the time to get bathed, which was maybe three or four weeks, I don't remember how long,

251
00:30:08.867 --> 00:30:16.932
but we'll take our clothes off in the barracks and walk in the nude to the barracks with the showers.

252
00:30:16.933 --> 00:30:26.132
When we had to go to the bathroom, one {knocks over his glass of water} ah, that's alright, you shouldn't move this...

253
00:30:26.133 --> 00:30:30.732
Jah, I'm, I'm talking with my hands, I'm very emotional.

254
00:30:30.733 --> 00:30:39.399
But anyways, we would, there were two counter slabs with a lot of holes for both sides to be able.

255
00:30:39.400 --> 00:30:51.232
And washing the hands was like the cows that are eating in the thing, was with the faucets and pipes, faucets and that's how we washed.

256
00:30:51.233 --> 00:30:58.032
And at the end of each one of the toilets, there was the place for cleaning.

257
00:30:58.033 --> 00:31:03.332
And if you didn't behave, then they put you in there, for cleaning.

258
00:31:03.333 --> 00:31:05.832
So this is what I did.

259
00:31:05.833 --> 00:31:28.732
When we got up in the morning very early, the man that was in charge, it was about five or so early in the morning, was in charge named Feix, come out on a white horse after the reporting.

260
00:31:28.733 --> 00:31:42.932
He'll go behind us, we five abreast, like military, into the Appellsquare where we would be, facing it,

261
00:31:42.933 --> 00:31:48.899
he go in the back with a whip, singled out on a white horse.

262
00:31:48.900 --> 00:31:54.199
As many people as he wanted, sometimes five, ten, fifteen, sometimes two or three.

263
00:31:54.200 --> 00:31:59.499
And kill them in front of everybody in inhuman ways.

264
00:31:59.500 --> 00:32:04.732
And sometimes "Killing, shooting and hanging too good for you!"

265
00:32:04.733 --> 00:32:12.999
Then we march in sections to the aeroplane factory in Budzyń.

266
00:32:13.000 --> 00:32:22.099
And it was the, and it was the twin engine Heinkel that I worked on and I became a patternmaker.

267
00:32:22.100 --> 00:32:27.566
I'm very good with my hands, that's why an older age, so they wouldn't kill me.

268
00:32:27.567 --> 00:32:31.932
The master of the carpentershop did this.

269
00:32:31.933 --> 00:32:41.066
So anyways, so, we would march and we had to sing and keep cadence like soldiers.

270
00:32:41.067 --> 00:32:46.666
Three weeks, we go out on a Friday.

271
00:32:46.667 --> 00:32:52.466
Three weeks, we go out in the morning, come back in the evening.

272
00:32:52.467 --> 00:32:55.866
The guards say, there are three people missing.

273
00:32:55.867 --> 00:33:03.966
They take 30 hostages, my father becomes a hostage before they count the people in the morning.

274
00:33:03.967 --> 00:33:09.366
So in the morning, I get up, half of the people are gone, only their shoes.

275
00:33:09.367 --> 00:33:16.632
My father's shoes are there, killed my father without me knowing how they killed him.

276
00:33:16.633 --> 00:33:24.632
So, from then on, I'm on my own and I do real good work, so they let me live.

277
00:33:24.633 --> 00:33:29.532
I'm transferred - I don't know why - to Mielec.

278
00:33:29.533 --> 00:33:42.366
I work again for the Heinkel and there, they tattoo me with a "KL" which stands for "Konzentrationslager".

279
00:33:42.367 --> 00:33:50.399
And I stay there for a while, then I'm on a train again in Auschwitz-Birkenau.

280
00:33:50.400 --> 00:34:00.132
And evidently, the cars are full of people and the tracks are taking up with cars.

281
00:34:00.133 --> 00:34:08.899
No room, I go to Wieliczka, salt mine, 15 kilometres on the other side of Krakau.

282
00:34:08.900 --> 00:34:13.999
I stay there for a while, stay there for a while.

283
00:34:14.000 --> 00:34:22.499
Finally, I'm on the train and they tell us "You're going into Germany, as the first Jewish transport."

284
00:34:22.500 --> 00:34:25.166
I don't know it it's right or not.

285
00:34:25.167 --> 00:34:31.666
But it was just rumors among the people because the guards never told us.

286
00:34:31.667 --> 00:34:39.566
And many of them were Ukrainian guards, you know, that worked under the SS.

287
00:34:39.567 --> 00:34:42.832
So, I'm taken to Flossenbürg.

288
00:34:42.833 --> 00:34:55.532
And recently, I received my original paper, I received copies of my papers and I just saw my name in there.

289
00:34:55.533 --> 00:35:00.699
So I got five records, work records, clothes records,

290
00:35:00.700 --> 00:35:15.432
my number record on one page with thirty-some names, only six alive, all the others the day, that they died and where they died on the right-hand side.

291
00:35:15.433 --> 00:35:27.766
And I stayed there till - and worked over here in Flossenbürg on the Messerschmitt, again patternmaking, very precision.

292
00:35:27.767 --> 00:35:33.999
I had to put my number on and on my work record, on my work record, there's only my number, not my name.

293
00:35:34.000 --> 00:35:39.066
On the others, in the most beautiful handwriting "Glauben, Mendel".

294
00:35:39.067 --> 00:35:41.599
I stayed till the 16th.

295
00:35:41.600 --> 00:35:46.466
In the middle of the night, they come in: "Jews only! Fall out!"

296
00:35:46.467 --> 00:35:54.399
On a train, I get on a train, it leaves for a little while.

297
00:35:54.400 --> 00:35:59.266
Maybe 2400 of us, come the American fighter planes.

298
00:35:59.267 --> 00:36:02.799
There are two locomotives, one in front, one in the back.

299
00:36:02.800 --> 00:36:09.832
They shoot it up parallel, kill over 400 of us, some of the guards.

300
00:36:09.833 --> 00:36:11.632
No way to go.

301
00:36:11.633 --> 00:36:19.932
They bring another train, come the British, but they disable the locomotive and start shooting down.

302
00:36:19.933 --> 00:36:29.832
The Germans see that every 5th bullet, there's a tracer and I'm looking at him, they jump off, we jump off.

303
00:36:29.833 --> 00:36:35.066
The pilots fly away, they see who it is with the stripes.

304
00:36:35.067 --> 00:36:37.832
So then we go on a death march.

305
00:36:37.833 --> 00:36:50.832
From Flossenbürg till April 23rd and we ended up somewhere around Stromfield or Schwarzenfeld.

306
00:36:50.833 --> 00:36:57.832
I never looked for what places and what I'm telling you is hindsight.

307
00:36:57.833 --> 00:37:02.132
But I know that I ended up in Regensburg.

308
00:37:02.133 --> 00:37:10.666
And ah, what happened is, they left us on a little hill and told us "You are surrounded with machine guns."

309
00:37:10.667 --> 00:37:18.399
And out of the whole group were maybe less than 500 left, in its small community, on a little hill.

310
00:37:18.400 --> 00:37:28.932
So, eight of us kids decide, let's run through the machine guns and go back to the town that we came because we heard a roar of certain engines.

311
00:37:28.933 --> 00:37:35.999
When we did that, the machine guns were abandoned and it were American tanks.

312
00:37:36.000 --> 00:37:41.032
Immediately, we got C-ration, K-ration, food.

313
00:37:41.033 --> 00:37:47.832
And a couple of days later, we tried to find a displaced person camp

314
00:37:47.833 --> 00:37:56.166
because most of the people that lived there on the area were afraid to let us into their homes.

315
00:37:56.167 --> 00:38:04.232
Nobody ever thought about that but they would bring out some food outside but no, we had to sleep outside!

316
00:38:04.233 --> 00:38:08.666
So the Allies started building up displaced persons camps.

317
00:38:08.667 --> 00:38:23.066
So, I was looking for one of the camps, on a farm road close to Schwabach, Germany, Nuremberg, Germany.

318
00:38:23.067 --> 00:38:35.399
And behind us came the 179 signal corps of the United States Army, picked eight of us up, put us on the truck, put me on the jeep.

319
00:38:35.400 --> 00:38:42.766
And said: "You're not strong enough to go to a displaced persons camp, we're going to use you as helpers."

320
00:38:42.767 --> 00:38:48.499
So we roamed until I hit Nuremberg, Germany.

321
00:38:48.500 --> 00:38:56.066
They were assigned to the Neumeyer Cable works, it was a city within a city.

322
00:38:56.067 --> 00:38:59.832
It had everything that that company needed.

323
00:38:59.833 --> 00:39:09.299
They were assigned a company of Polish guards and I don't, I can't tell you how many German prisoners of war.

324
00:39:09.300 --> 00:39:16.032
And I became their mess sergeant from '45 to '47.

325
00:39:16.033 --> 00:39:18.399
And I lived in Nuremberg.

326
00:39:18.400 --> 00:39:30.732
And in 1947, I was ah, picked up by the US committee, after I got recommendation paper from the Germans.

327
00:39:30.733 --> 00:39:42.666
And they identified us, made all the necessary papers to take us to the United States.

328
00:39:42.667 --> 00:39:49.532
Only if we were under the age of 18 and lost the whole family.

329
00:39:49.533 --> 00:40:02.899
So, I qualified, I was brought to the United States, placed in an orphanage in the Bronx on Cauldwell Avenue and lived there.

330
00:40:02.900 --> 00:40:08.699
And was taken to many places and I, kind of got very depressed.

331
00:40:08.700 --> 00:40:16.166
So, they ah, had an opening in Atlanta, Georgia on December 31 1947.

332
00:40:16.167 --> 00:40:26.766
I was placed on an Eastern Airlines plane and flown to Atlanta, Georgia where I lived for the next year and a half.

333
00:40:26.767 --> 00:40:32.532
Then I became 18, registered for the draft in the United States Army.

334
00:40:32.533 --> 00:40:37.232
And I was drafted during the Korean War, so I'm a Korean Veteran.

335
00:40:37.233 --> 00:40:42.666
And then, I was stationed in Fort Hood where I became a mess sergeant.

336
00:40:42.667 --> 00:40:50.066
I was the understudy and the First Armour Division of the US Army was being reactivated.

337
00:40:50.067 --> 00:41:06.732
So I went and.. I went to school, to food service school and I was an understudy so they gave me stripes and put me in the company that was being reactivated.

338
00:41:06.733 --> 00:41:15.699
Which means they had to be in full strength, so the made me a mess seargeant immediately, but I never went to Korea.

339
00:41:15.700 --> 00:41:19.832
Stayed stateside in Fort Hood and would come in on weekends

340
00:41:19.833 --> 00:41:29.599
where I met my wife and I'm married to somebody that's a native Texan, born in Dallas, Texas.

341
00:41:29.600 --> 00:41:37.032
And I have three children, two males and one female and seven grandchildren right now.

342
00:41:37.033 --> 00:41:41.899
And ah, ages from 14 to 28.

343
00:41:41.900 --> 00:41:55.432
The 28 is a liaison between Dallas and the Galilee in Israel, the Jewish Federation of Dallas in Galilee.

344
00:41:55.433 --> 00:42:13.799
And her brother is with a cardealer in Dallas, then my youngest son in Houston has a wife and two children, one is a cheerleader in Michigan.

345
00:42:13.800 --> 00:42:20.666
And the other one is in Rhodes College and he is a baseball pitcher

346
00:42:20.667 --> 00:42:30.466
that was a freshman and became on the varsity team which means he is very good.

347
00:42:30.467 --> 00:42:44.566
And then I have one that's starting in Texas A&M and one that's finishing in Texas A&M and the others are going to highschool and so forth.

348
00:42:44.567 --> 00:42:49.366
IV: So, you seem to be a lucky man and a proud grandfather and father today.

349
00:42:49.367 --> 00:43:00.432
MG: Yes, I am. It's all sometimes being in the right place at the right time and sometimes..

350
00:43:00.433 --> 00:43:09.332
Some of your deeds also might be rewarded with an angel or so on your shoulders.

351
00:43:09.333 --> 00:43:16.132
When you walk into a place that's really bad, I ah, I'm not advertising it.

352
00:43:16.133 --> 00:43:25.499
But I'm also, I'm a cancer survivor, 17 years ago, I lost my complete stomach to cancer.

353
00:43:25.500 --> 00:43:30.632
But I'm able to sit here and talk and..

354
00:43:30.633 --> 00:43:47.766
Also, I'm not an educated person but I do have a diploma from Eastcentral College of Streetsmart, Hard Knocks and Streetsmart. You know, a diploma, so.

355
00:43:47.767 --> 00:44:00.866
IV: Now we are right here today, but I would like if it's okay for you, to go a little bit back in the past because we're here in Flossenbürg.

356
00:44:00.867 --> 00:44:06.732
Especially this interview is ah, for the memorial site.

357
00:44:06.733 --> 00:44:11.166
So I would like to ask some more questions about your time in Flossenbürg.

358
00:44:11.167 --> 00:44:12.599
MG: Okay.

359
00:44:12.600 --> 00:44:17.032
IV: You told me, they put you on the transport to Flossenbürg.

360
00:44:17.033 --> 00:44:21.832
Can you remember how many days it cost to get here and..

361
00:44:21.833 --> 00:44:27.866
ah, when the first day, when you arrived, maybe you remember what happened here.

362
00:44:27.867 --> 00:44:33.332
Maybe what was the difference comparing to other concentration camps.

363
00:44:33.333 --> 00:44:44.599
MG: When we were placed in Wieliczka, they must have received an overflow of people.

364
00:44:44.600 --> 00:44:51.699
Not only from Mielec but maybe from other surrounding areas.

365
00:44:51.700 --> 00:45:00.932
So we lived under horrible conditions, in barracks that we were stuffed in with human beings.

366
00:45:00.933 --> 00:45:08.166
So, there was one time that we went down with a lift.

367
00:45:08.167 --> 00:45:14.432
Just to see where they were working because they had some facilities.

368
00:45:14.433 --> 00:45:22.232
And I know there was a church underneath, in the underground that visitors come and see.

369
00:45:22.233 --> 00:45:27.599
But I don't know in which shaft we were taken down there.

370
00:45:27.600 --> 00:45:35.266
But we could.. there was an overflux of people we couldn't do too much there.

371
00:45:35.267 --> 00:45:38.866
So this was like a transit, they put us on there.

372
00:45:38.867 --> 00:45:47.399
And I remember that they put us on a boxcar that didn't have a top on.

373
00:45:47.400 --> 00:45:56.966
You know, one of those that maybe coal or something was being used that was off-loaded in a different way.

374
00:45:56.967 --> 00:46:02.699
So I was riding in a boxcar like that with some of the people too.

375
00:46:02.700 --> 00:46:07.566
Maybe because we were professionals, I don't know.

376
00:46:07.567 --> 00:46:09.866
You know, there was no reasoning.

377
00:46:09.867 --> 00:46:14.899
So I went - and I'd say, about three or four days, you know.

378
00:46:14.900 --> 00:46:26.299
And maybe, once or twice, this was around April or May, and maybe one time, it snowed, I can't..

379
00:46:26.300 --> 00:46:35.299
You know, this kind of thing, but sometimes the weather's not cold enough for real snow so by the time it goes down,

380
00:46:35.300 --> 00:46:37.599
it got down on us, it was kind of water.

381
00:46:37.600 --> 00:46:39.366
So I remember that.

382
00:46:39.367 --> 00:46:51.832
Then I was off-loaded, it was.. you know, the camps that I was in, at the beginning, were death camps.

383
00:46:51.833 --> 00:46:54.166
Some of them were labour camps.

384
00:46:54.167 --> 00:47:02.232
But you know, the commanders were either prisoners, taken out of prisons, or people that were real bad.

385
00:47:02.233 --> 00:47:12.199
So Budzyń the worse, Mielec had more intelligent guys because aircrafts.

386
00:47:12.200 --> 00:47:19.132
The other one was parts here aircrafts in a hangar for the planes, so he..

387
00:47:19.133 --> 00:47:26.799
The condition's the same, but the treatment, the punishment and the whipping a little bit less.

388
00:47:26.800 --> 00:47:38.499
Wieliczka... I told you, we lived there just to sustain as some human beings to be killed later.

389
00:47:38.500 --> 00:47:44.466
Then when we went to Flossenbürg, we went into nicer facility for the showers.

390
00:47:44.467 --> 00:47:54.566
But the procedure was the same - disrobe but not so much, ah, cruelty as in the other one.

391
00:47:54.567 --> 00:48:03.966
And I don't even remember if I got the striped clothes or whether I got mixed clothes.

392
00:48:03.967 --> 00:48:11.832
And on the mixed clothes it would have, with a red paint, you know either "KL" or "KZ".

393
00:48:11.833 --> 00:48:19.699
Now, "KL" would be from maybe clothing from another camp that they brought over there to distribute.

394
00:48:19.700 --> 00:48:27.999
And when I was on there, then, ah, the.. disinfecting was the same.

395
00:48:28.000 --> 00:48:32.132
And the giving of clothing was the same.

396
00:48:32.133 --> 00:48:35.766
But then we were led on stairway.

397
00:48:35.767 --> 00:48:40.599
You know, we have to go up to the thing.

398
00:48:40.600 --> 00:48:50.099
And immediately, the commander of that barrack, says: "Come on, I'll have you sleep in a better place."

399
00:48:50.100 --> 00:48:52.366
So I don't know what he did with me.

400
00:48:52.367 --> 00:48:57.966
You know, but he gave me better quarters.

401
00:48:57.967 --> 00:49:09.632
But we were so {coughs}, we were so treated badly that once we lay down to sleep, we were probably dead.

402
00:49:09.633 --> 00:49:13.132
And you didn't know what was happening to you.

403
00:49:13.133 --> 00:49:16.166
So, I remember that.

404
00:49:16.167 --> 00:49:26.366
Now I remember going and marching again but in a little bit easier way than in the other camps.

405
00:49:26.367 --> 00:49:33.732
Because there, if we didn't keep cadence and march and sing, you got killed.

406
00:49:33.733 --> 00:49:35.666
You never reached the destination.

407
00:49:35.667 --> 00:49:39.532
But over here, it was a little bit more leisure.

408
00:49:39.533 --> 00:49:49.699
And when I got first to that place, there was.. the head of the carpentershop.

409
00:49:49.700 --> 00:49:54.199
And I was sweeping the floor.

410
00:49:54.200 --> 00:50:07.299
And when I was sweeping, he was building a trunk and that was a little bit later in the year.

411
00:50:07.300 --> 00:50:12.532
Because I was ha-, at the beginning, I had odd jobs at the carpentershop.

412
00:50:12.533 --> 00:50:15.866
And then sometimes, it's just sweeping.

413
00:50:15.867 --> 00:50:22.832
So he was making the top for a wooden chest.

414
00:50:22.833 --> 00:50:27.532
And I stood on my stool and I was just tired and I was just like that..

415
00:50:27.533 --> 00:50:31.466
So he says: "What are you doing?" I say: "I'm looking at you."

416
00:50:31.467 --> 00:50:34.532
Because I was afraid to say I'm just sleepy.

417
00:50:34.533 --> 00:50:38.832
So he says: "Why, you think you can do better than this?"

418
00:50:38.833 --> 00:50:42.232
And he was trying to either probably pick with me.

419
00:50:42.233 --> 00:50:45.366
I say: "I don't know but I can try."

420
00:50:45.367 --> 00:50:47.399
So he says: "Well, go and try."

421
00:50:47.400 --> 00:50:59.232
So I took one piece of wood and a big long plane and I centered it and I squared it on the piece and I made one slide.

422
00:50:59.233 --> 00:51:03.532
I looked where it needed and it fit perfectly.

423
00:51:03.533 --> 00:51:06.699
He took my apron off and says: "You're a carpenter now."

424
00:51:06.700 --> 00:51:10.566
And after that, I was able to do everything that I was.

425
00:51:10.567 --> 00:51:12.732
But he was a very bad person.

426
00:51:12.733 --> 00:51:18.532
He would break a chair, a wooden chair and beat people up with the leg.

427
00:51:18.533 --> 00:51:20.199
Sometimes.

428
00:51:20.200 --> 00:51:31.799
But he send me in to the kitchen, to do repairs but more so, so, somebody there will give me some food.

429
00:51:31.800 --> 00:51:36.099
Or I went behind the barracks and got potatoe peelings.

430
00:51:36.100 --> 00:51:46.566
And we not only had to work in the carpenter but we also had to have certain - like, KP details.

431
00:51:46.567 --> 00:51:51.366
Sometimes peeling potatoes in the kitchen, and..

432
00:51:51.367 --> 00:51:59.999
This guy, as bad as he was, he sometimes arranged for the guy in the cook to ask for the little,

433
00:52:00.000 --> 00:52:06.466
I was in barracks 11 of there, which is above some of the German things..

434
00:52:06.467 --> 00:52:13.432
So, ah, I remember once or twice, I was unloading boxcars of bread.

435
00:52:13.433 --> 00:52:20.032
So they had a human chain and the first, the first loaf of bread like that.

436
00:52:20.033 --> 00:52:28.332
So I knew where I was, some of the bread going like that {making gestures}.

437
00:52:28.333 --> 00:52:36.632
So I was an organizer and I did, ah, what I thought would save my life.

438
00:52:36.633 --> 00:52:45.799
And ah, when I worked in the place, I worked with civilians.

439
00:52:45.800 --> 00:52:52.099
Which was maybe different than some others that were right under a German.

440
00:52:52.100 --> 00:52:53.399
You know what I mean.

441
00:52:53.400 --> 00:53:00.799
There was a - I was that good on the machinery, and there might be records over there.

442
00:53:00.800 --> 00:53:15.166
They brought in some Polish Youth - that was like Hitler Youth, in some other places - and they brought in also Hitler Youth, to work in these factories.

443
00:53:15.167 --> 00:53:17.432
They went to school, they went there.

444
00:53:17.433 --> 00:53:26.932
And in one of the camps, one of them cut his finger, while working on the machines, on the saws and the machines.

445
00:53:26.933 --> 00:53:33.199
So, a high-ranking officer came in and slipped on something, it was a finger.

446
00:53:33.200 --> 00:53:36.999
So he says: "Get the little Jewish boy to do the machines."

447
00:53:37.000 --> 00:53:39.866
And I was good on all the machines.

448
00:53:39.867 --> 00:53:44.166
And I was doing them also for everybody.

449
00:53:44.167 --> 00:53:48.532
So I did many things just to stay out of trouble.

450
00:53:48.533 --> 00:53:57.299
And some of the people that I worked with would sometimes bring an extra sandwich and throw into my bucket and so forth.

451
00:53:57.300 --> 00:54:03.632
IV: So what about the general situation in the last months in the camp in Flossenbürg.

452
00:54:03.633 --> 00:54:11.832
I've heard it was overcrowded, nearly no food, very cold - maybe you can tell a little bit about the general situation?

453
00:54:11.833 --> 00:54:20.699
MG: The thing that always gets bad is - it was overcrowded and it was on there.

454
00:54:20.700 --> 00:54:25.366
But it's like, you live in a house.

455
00:54:25.367 --> 00:54:34.166
And let's say you live in a confined area and they put in extra people into your place.

456
00:54:34.167 --> 00:54:39.666
They are strangers, they don't know how to live.

457
00:54:39.667 --> 00:54:42.966
They don't know what the situation is inside.

458
00:54:42.967 --> 00:54:45.766
So you understand what I'm saying.

459
00:54:45.767 --> 00:54:54.232
And after me being incarcerated for five years, I was an established person in Flossenbürg.

460
00:54:54.233 --> 00:54:58.532
The ones that suffered were the ones that came in.

461
00:54:58.533 --> 00:55:02.166
Didn't have a job, didn't know what to do.

462
00:55:02.167 --> 00:55:11.566
Maybe even, maybe even, not documented properly. So if they went for food, maybe they didn't see their name on it.

463
00:55:11.567 --> 00:55:17.732
Do you understand what I'm saying? And it, well, it's a turmoil like that, so each one for yourself.

464
00:55:17.733 --> 00:55:22.099
Yes, we suffered because we had to share with everybody.

465
00:55:22.100 --> 00:55:29.732
But maybe I did.. To the point where I just looked out for myself.

466
00:55:29.733 --> 00:55:36.999
You become very selfish in those situation and I'm very honest about this.

467
00:55:37.000 --> 00:55:39.966
And I always could..

468
00:55:39.967 --> 00:55:49.999
I'm very mechanically inclined and everything had to make sense and if it didn't make sense, it wasn't so, you know.

469
00:55:50.000 --> 00:55:52.632
But we had a rough time at the end.

470
00:55:52.633 --> 00:56:00.832
Just like, being called up in the middle of the night and putting on the train and being shut up and being on the death march.

471
00:56:00.833 --> 00:56:07.566
So it was just turmoil because.. They didn't have any plans so what they were going to do.

472
00:56:07.567 --> 00:56:14.632
And so, they.. everybody did the best they could with what they got.

473
00:56:14.633 --> 00:56:17.999
IV: And you never get sick during this time or weak?

474
00:56:18.000 --> 00:56:25.866
MG: Well, I.. I was.. To this day, I'm 85 years old.

475
00:56:25.867 --> 00:56:30.166
And I climbed the Masada this year with the kids.

476
00:56:30.167 --> 00:56:36.066
No, I'm a strong individual but I had my ups and downs.

477
00:56:36.067 --> 00:56:40.432
I had typhoid in the Warsaw Ghetto with my little brother.

478
00:56:40.433 --> 00:56:41.566
I went through.

479
00:56:41.567 --> 00:56:48.732
In one of the camps, one of the Ukrainians pulled the file off and stuck it in my back.

480
00:56:48.733 --> 00:56:56.832
You know, the file goes into a wooden handle, he pulled the wooden handle on there and it got a sharp edge and do it like that.

481
00:56:56.833 --> 00:57:08.066
And there was maybe.. one time when we were going for a shower and it was in the winter time going to take.

482
00:57:08.067 --> 00:57:10.799
And we were marching in the nude.

483
00:57:10.800 --> 00:57:23.832
And I didn't have too much hair but icicles on your mouth from the breathing you get the icicles.

484
00:57:23.833 --> 00:57:27.932
And then.. but anyways.

485
00:57:27.933 --> 00:57:37.132
There was an iron pipe and one of the Ukrainians - and I never mention that to anybody,

486
00:57:37.133 --> 00:57:44.366
One of the Ukrainian says: "Put your tongue out, you know it'll warm you up."

487
00:57:44.367 --> 00:57:51.999
My tongue got stuck to the iron pipe when it's frozen, you know.

488
00:57:52.000 --> 00:58:02.666
And you stayed there, in pain but thank God that didn't affect me.

489
00:58:02.667 --> 00:58:11.966
And one time, ah, I was welding duraluminium because..

490
00:58:11.967 --> 00:58:15.899
before I went into the carpenter, I did many odd jobs.

491
00:58:15.900 --> 00:58:26.732
And they told me that ah, you get milk to drink if you.. do, you know, weld the duraluminium.

492
00:58:26.733 --> 00:58:29.266
So it was.. duraluminium.

493
00:58:29.267 --> 00:58:32.899
And right next was an electric arc welder.

494
00:58:32.900 --> 00:58:36.699
So the guy says: "Come here, look."

495
00:58:36.700 --> 00:58:39.032
So I look.

496
00:58:39.033 --> 00:58:41.599
But I don't have any glasses.

497
00:58:41.600 --> 00:58:47.999
So then for a little while, maybe two or three days, I couldn't see anything.

498
00:58:48.000 --> 00:58:50.799
I was, you know, sunblinded.

499
00:58:50.800 --> 00:58:52.999
But came back.

500
00:58:53.000 --> 00:59:01.399
Like a.. these are miracles that happened that you shouldn't but you survived.

501
00:59:01.400 --> 00:59:04.699
I was punished by hanging like this.

502
00:59:04.700 --> 00:59:10.966
You know by my hands for 10, 15 minutes, you don't know what.

503
00:59:10.967 --> 00:59:17.066
I was, ah.. on the march..

504
00:59:17.067 --> 00:59:25.732
On the second train, when I jumped off, a shrapnel hit me right between the legs.

505
00:59:25.733 --> 00:59:28.632
A 50 millimeter bullet, just like that.

506
00:59:28.633 --> 00:59:35.866
So I have a scar, that big, but I don't talk about it.

507
00:59:35.867 --> 00:59:38.366
But it's there.

508
00:59:38.367 --> 00:59:42.232
IV: So physically, you could keep your health.

509
00:59:42.233 --> 01:00:02.299
MG: I made sure, this is maybe why I am a survivor that I.. I was intimidated by denying my life.

510
01:00:02.300 --> 01:00:12.632
I was the only one with my name in that book upstairs with the number 14732.

511
01:00:12.633 --> 01:00:17.999
And I did anything in my power, so they wouldn't kill me.

512
01:00:18.000 --> 01:00:23.899
IV: So what do you think, what made you so strong, not only physically but also mentally?

513
01:00:23.900 --> 01:00:28.332
I think, also mentally, you have to keep very strong to survive?

514
01:00:28.333 --> 01:00:32.666
MG: Belief and be positive.

515
01:00:32.667 --> 01:00:40.332
And never, never, never, never, never, never give up!

516
01:00:40.333 --> 01:00:45.399
And to this day, I won't do it.

517
01:00:45.400 --> 01:00:51.599
IV: So I think, you're just being ah, not a child but a young man at this time.

518
01:00:51.600 --> 01:00:58.732
You saw many terrible things, I think, you saw people dying, starving, killing each other.

519
01:00:58.733 --> 01:00:59.966
MG: Exactly.

520
01:00:59.967 --> 01:01:08.066
IV: And what, maybe just, ah, you're sounding very positive. What about your feelings at this time?

521
01:01:08.067 --> 01:01:18.966
MG: The feelings.. Number 1, in our religion and.. when as a 10 or 12 or 30 not that much, but you know.

522
01:01:18.967 --> 01:01:29.699
Certain things let's say, in our religion if you save one life, it's the same if you save the whole world.

523
01:01:29.700 --> 01:01:33.399
This was on my mind.

524
01:01:33.400 --> 01:01:47.832
The losing of my identity, my name and if you lose that, there wouldn't be any Glaubens in this world.

525
01:01:47.833 --> 01:01:57.199
And the other thing is.. is.. Somebody wants to do something to me

526
01:01:57.200 --> 01:02:04.566
and I'm going to make certain that I can avoid him trying to do it.

527
01:02:04.567 --> 01:02:20.932
And if one loves life and thanks that you were placed here for a certain reason, you don't know what reason..

528
01:02:20.933 --> 01:02:32.166
But.. evidently, you were meant to be in this earth and why should you be eliminated?

529
01:02:32.167 --> 01:02:46.032
And.. evidently, our bodies are strong enough to withstand what I and many others withstood that have survived this.

530
01:02:46.033 --> 01:02:52.499
So maybe it's a good sign for the future.

531
01:02:52.500 --> 01:03:05.066
We didn't go under the bridges with a sign "Will work for food" or "Will work for a drink or for a donation".

532
01:03:05.067 --> 01:03:14.532
We got married, created other families, created young individuals to perpetrate {perpetuate} this world.

533
01:03:14.533 --> 01:03:22.466
And maybe thought of things to make a better world to live in. So..

534
01:03:22.467 --> 01:03:31.166
There a many reasons, it could be hindsight that we are saying that, but there's a lot of truth to that.

535
01:03:31.167 --> 01:03:42.099
The desire to live and be somebody and accomplish something, it's all within us.

536
01:03:42.100 --> 01:03:51.532
In fact, when I lecture, I say, we have the same brains as Adam and Eve, look at the advancements.

537
01:03:51.533 --> 01:03:53.666
All the way to now.

538
01:03:53.667 --> 01:04:01.999
But the brain has the capability of choosing whether you want to take the right path, the bad path.

539
01:04:02.000 --> 01:04:08.466
What they want to do with their life, who they want to be, whether they want to teach,

540
01:04:08.467 --> 01:04:12.832
whether they want to be an aircraftmechanic or a pilot.

541
01:04:12.833 --> 01:04:16.232
And also whether they want to teach other children.

542
01:04:16.233 --> 01:04:20.166
And it all lies there, so..

543
01:04:20.167 --> 01:04:27.832
We as individuals have to take the responsibility of choosing the right thing that we want to do.

544
01:04:27.833 --> 01:04:32.566
Or how we going to get on in life.

545
01:04:32.567 --> 01:04:43.299
IV: Well, I think it's looking back, at your..., what you experienced, it's maybe easy to say that, so.

546
01:04:43.300 --> 01:04:49.066
With a lot of experiences of life. So, some more short questions.

547
01:04:49.067 --> 01:04:57.299
So when you started your new life in the United States, you immediately started talking about what happened to you?

548
01:04:57.300 --> 01:04:59.999
MG: No, no.. ah.

549
01:05:00.000 --> 01:05:07.599
Like I told you, that I was with the Army, you know, working there.

550
01:05:07.600 --> 01:05:19.732
And then, I ah.. registered for the draft, then I was drafted but I did speak to maybe some school children.

551
01:05:19.733 --> 01:05:24.799
Not to my children because I didn't want any sympathy from them.

552
01:05:24.800 --> 01:05:33.966
I want them grow up as regular people, not feel sorry for me everytime I tell them a story of what happened.

553
01:05:33.967 --> 01:05:45.566
But would you believe that the things that were happening to us were so horrible that some people didn't want to believe it.

554
01:05:45.567 --> 01:05:56.332
And when you talk to somebody and I'm very observant, I could see in their eyes "Maybe he's telling me a story."

555
01:05:56.333 --> 01:06:01.766
Like I would tell him a number that I was and: "How does he remember the number?"

556
01:06:01.767 --> 01:06:05.499
Well, now I got records to prove the number.

557
01:06:05.500 --> 01:06:12.599
But there was a time after some commercial pictures came out.

558
01:06:12.600 --> 01:06:17.466
That showed like maybe Schindler's List and some of the others.

559
01:06:17.467 --> 01:06:25.066
This is where it really started growing because people realized that it really happened.

560
01:06:25.067 --> 01:06:33.032
And people were afraid to expose the public to that because these are horrible things.

561
01:06:33.033 --> 01:06:35.266
And you are going to teach them the horrible things.

562
01:06:35.267 --> 01:06:42.199
They put how to make a bomb on the internet but they wouldn't tell you how one acted against another.

563
01:06:42.200 --> 01:06:51.166
So then I started speaking and.. thank God I became somebody that can make a difference in many, many lives

564
01:06:51.167 --> 01:06:55.699
by having a positive attitude rather than a negative.

565
01:06:55.700 --> 01:07:04.732
And the results are much greater and it's self-satisfaction that I am doing something.

566
01:07:04.733 --> 01:07:16.832
I made a little video that was professionally made and I am an (???) that is tax-deductible in the United States.

567
01:07:16.833 --> 01:07:24.599
And I don't accept any money but a donation has to be made either to me or the Holocaust Museum.

568
01:07:24.600 --> 01:07:28.066
For me, goes to scholarships.

569
01:07:28.067 --> 01:07:31.332
I don't have an office, I don't have a telephone.

570
01:07:31.333 --> 01:07:34.366
All the money goes for kids.

571
01:07:34.367 --> 01:07:38.399
And the other one, all goes to the Holocaust Museum.

572
01:07:38.400 --> 01:07:49.366
Because I don't want to profit on tragedy like some people. Whatever it is, you know.. So.

573
01:07:49.367 --> 01:07:54.332
IV: Did you have any problems coming back to Germany, after so many years?

574
01:07:54.333 --> 01:08:04.232
MG: No.. Like I say, I.. I don't.. have any hate because the hate would hurt me.

575
01:08:04.233 --> 01:08:12.699
And you people or.. whoever, you don't even know that I hate you, you know, if I did.

576
01:08:12.700 --> 01:08:14.099
You understand?

577
01:08:14.100 --> 01:08:19.866
And I never wanted that because I was on the other side of hate.

578
01:08:19.867 --> 01:08:30.232
And you'll see that many Holocaust survivors don't want to treat somebody else the same way as they, you know, have been treated.

579
01:08:30.233 --> 01:08:39.299
But no, ah, I was a buyer at Neiman Marcus in the 50s and I came back in 1959 and 1960.

580
01:08:39.300 --> 01:08:45.132
And I came back to the city that I left from, Nuremberg, Germany for the Toy Fair.

581
01:08:45.133 --> 01:08:53.732
And ah, I came back about three or four years ago, I went to Berlin, with the March of the Living.

582
01:08:53.733 --> 01:08:57.199
And.. I got some pictures of that.

583
01:08:57.200 --> 01:08:59.532
And we visited all the places, so..

584
01:08:59.533 --> 01:09:09.632
I don't hold any grudge and for therefore, I'm a better person and I feel better, you know. I'm satisfied.

585
01:09:09.633 --> 01:09:14.466
IV: Good to hear. Did you ever get any money from the German government?

586
01:09:14.467 --> 01:09:18.232
MG: No, never. I was not in there.

587
01:09:18.233 --> 01:09:26.966
But lately, when I retired, I did get something for the Warsaw Ghetto.

588
01:09:26.967 --> 01:09:30.166
More like social security.

589
01:09:30.167 --> 01:09:36.699
So I got very little but no, the actual "Wiedergutmachung".

590
01:09:36.700 --> 01:09:50.666
And ah.. When I applied, even for anything, they said that I was too late because I was in the military and I was in an area that applied for that.

591
01:09:50.667 --> 01:10:01.132
And ah.. I was making too much money in what I was doing and that's kind of pissed me off.

592
01:10:01.133 --> 01:10:06.632
Because what does that have to do with what I went through, you understand.

593
01:10:06.633 --> 01:10:17.232
If you are going to give me for something that happened to me then, like if somebody gets in jail and then they let them out, they pay them for the time, regardless of how much money he makes.

594
01:10:17.233 --> 01:10:19.099
You know, on a book or whatever.

595
01:10:19.100 --> 01:10:25.999
So, no, but.. I get a little bit now and ah..

596
01:10:26.000 --> 01:10:37.566
and in fact, I have a friend that lives with me in Atlanta, that's the head of the New York Gathering of the Holocaust Survivors, that has to do with "Wiedergutmachung".

597
01:10:37.567 --> 01:10:39.799
But I didn't ask him to do it.

598
01:10:39.800 --> 01:10:43.266
What comes, what comes.

599
01:10:43.267 --> 01:10:53.399
And whatever I get, I'm not going to get upset over it, you know.

600
01:10:53.400 --> 01:10:55.532
IV: Thank you very much.

601
01:10:55.533 --> 00:00:00.000
MG: It's only three, but anyways, now I'm going to take the drink that I spilled.