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IV: Heute ist Samstag der 20. Juli, wir sind in Weiden in der Oberpfalz im Hotel Admira.

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Mein Name ist Michael Aue von der Medien Werkstatt und wir führen jetzt ein Interview mit Agi Geva,

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die heute in den USA lebt und die 1930 am 2. Juni in Budapest geboren wurde.

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AG: You, you didn't started anything?

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IV: I start, I started, you just have to wait to just..

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AG: No, but I can talk when, I mean, what I am telling now is not, is off record?

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IV: Now it's off.

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AG: Ok. Then my..

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IV: Ok, so let's start a little bit with the beginning, can you tell me a little bit about your childhood,

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where you have been born, about your parents, your family, how you grew up?

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AG: Ok, I was born in Budapest, but we didn't live there at the time.

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We lived at a farm, where my father was the director of a very big farm

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and ah problem started in 1936, when Jews couldn't be in key positions anymore and he was ah fired.

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It affected him more than we could have imagined.

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He got heart, heart sickness and ah he, he never recoverd actually from this shock that he had to loose his job.

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Ah until up, up to then we had quite a nice ah childhood, but at the age five, six we had to leave, was called Pogon Puszta.

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And ah we went to Miskolc where I grew up actually and where we were deported from also.

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My mother ah opened a pension ah like a small boarding house, small hotel in order to save my father worries and work

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and ah she did all the management and ah we liked to live there very much with my sister.

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We had again quite nice.

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Ah we didn't feel antisemitism, because our parents were very careful about not having us ah know a lot about it.

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At school, there was no Jewish school ah no Gymnasium, only a protestant one that's where we attended

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and that were only two Jewish girls in my class room.

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We felt it in ah social way that we were never invited to any birthday parties and ah any other parties we two Jewish girls so.

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That we, we could have managed with it {breathing}.

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IV: So and how ah can you remember ah when it started changing the situation a little bit for you?

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AG: It didn't change a little bit.

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It changed a lot in 1944 actually on the 19th of March my dad died.

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He died on, in the morning and we called our relatives in Budapest to come to the funeral and they told: "We can't, uncle Nazi arrived."

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And my mother understood that the occupation started.

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My dad, if he hadn't died that day, for natural, not natural reasons exactly,

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he had this heart trouble and he had lung trouble and he had high blood pressure, he had everything one can imagine.

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He would have died from the shock.

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So when we came back from the cemetery all the street corners were already ah full of ah SS ah guards and soldiers and officers and,

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so Miskolc was occupied on the same day when he died.

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IV: So and what did you do?

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What did your family do?

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At this day, about the next days?

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AG: {Breathing} The next days, I mean, from that day on everything changed.

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But everything changed for the worst in ah in an unimaginable way.

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Rules started to come out of, for instance the red, the yellow star.

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We couldn't go out to the street without the yellow star.

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We couldn't have a bicycle.

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I had to give my bicycle that, take it to the municipality.

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It was an idea I never, never would have imagined that should be connected.

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We {breathing} heard new words like "ghetto", "yellow star", "deportation",

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concentration camps, this became new words,

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we had to learn with my sisters, we didn't know the meaning.

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We never thought we have to know about it.

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And things started to change rapidly.

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IV: Did you have heard about the things that happened in other countries before like Poland?

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Or what happened to Jewish people or what the Germans did there?

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AG: You know, as there was not television on those days and the BBC wasn't supposed to be heard.

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Ah the Hungarian Radio did not give the exact news.

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So the little news that we had we had to imagine the rest of it,

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but somehow most of my acquaintances and friends and relatives

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everybody's told one sentence: "To Hungary it can't happen."

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It happened.

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IV: So maybe you continue what happened then?

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So you could, could go on to school further on, or?

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AG: No.

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IV: No.

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AG: We couldn't go to school anymore.

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It was the only good thing about it.

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IV: {Laughing} And ah..

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AG: That's what we thought.

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IV: And the little boarding.., the pension your mother that was running, it was closed..?

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AG: No my mother kept on running the pension until the last minute when we just had to walk out from it.

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We had to walk out, leave everything behind.

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We could take something with us what we could carry, nothing more.

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The choice was very hard for my mother mostly.

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And we didn't know where we were going and why.

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IV: Nobody told you before?

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AG: No, we were taken to the ghetto.

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But before we were taken to the ghetto, there were rumours that we could save us the possiblility of being deported,

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if we go to the municipality and swear loyalty to the country and go and work in the fields.

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So my mother ground.., rounded up some 30, 33 friends who were ready to do this

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and we went to the municipality and we swore loyalty and we were send to Muhi Puszta,

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that was the place where we had to work in the fields.

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And nobody exactly knew for how to work in the fields,

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but we had guards around and we had long, long hours and we did it

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and we thought with this we can save our lifes maybe.

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{Breathing} But we didn't.

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They came to take us, they changed their minds or the rules

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or the laws and they took us back to Miskolc

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to the ghetto, that was we thought the worst possibility, in very small apartments they ah send five, six families,

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of, of course only one bathroom and one kitchen.

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It was terribly crowded and very un.., very, very uncomfortable.

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We had very little food, also water was scarce ah they didn't let us go out.

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We were fenced in.

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It was a very bad situation.

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IV: Ah, can you remember how many people have been living in this ghetto?

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AG: {Breathing} You know, all the Jews from Miskolc.

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IV: Yeah.

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AG: All the Jews, I can, I don't have a number.

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I, I have no idea.

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I knew only pro apartment how many families were in there.

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Nein, I couldn't tell you.

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IV: But so, was it a big ghetto or a small one?

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AG: It was a very big ghetto.

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It was a very big ghetto.

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Ah people were there much longer than us, because we were in the fields trying to work

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so we, they brought us back and then, whatever they say, meant {breathing} they had some other plans,

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we took, they took the whole ghetto to the brick factory and outskirts of ah Miskolc.

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And ah we were waiting there for trains they told us.

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We can't be ah anymore in our hometown, we can't even be in Hungary anymore,

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we have to be in concentration camps, we have to be deported.

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These abstract words didn't mean to us anything.

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We didn't understand the meaning, my sister and me.

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But my mother was with us, so at least we were together

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and after a couple of, I don't know, it was a week, two weeks, ah the trains came.

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IV: And all the time you've been waiting at the brick factory just waiting for trains to come?

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AG: For the, yes, yes.

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And disappointment was very big.

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It wasn't trains, they were boxing cars.

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They were wagons, cattle wagons.

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We couldn't believe it that we have to crawl up on these wagons,

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they were very high and they pushed us inside.

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And there was, there were only standing place

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until there was absolutely no more standing place, they closed the door on us.

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{Breathing} It was very hot, no air, there was a pail in of the corners.

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We had no, very little food, no water {breathing}, waited for a long time until they started

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and ah we had no idea where we were going, for how long ah took a long, long time.

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Took three, three and a half days.

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And we were in very bad condition when, from day to day it was getting worse and worse.

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Worse about it was that there were pregnant women,

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women with very small babies, very old people, very sick people.

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Ah, all sorts of conditions.

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There were people who were yelling, they didn't know how certain things can be possible.

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How, how human beings can be transported that way.

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There were women starting to cry, they never could stop, they never stopped the whole three days.

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There were of course babies crying who couldn't stop either.

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There was nothing to stop them with.

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Ah it was ah very, very desperate, fant.., a terrible situation.

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We thought that the ghettos were the worst, so that was the worst.

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IV: So and where the train ended up?

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AG: When we got to a certain station the train stopped and we had no idea where we were.

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The doors opened, we saw a lot of SS soldiers,

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we were supposed to get off those trains, was hard to get off.

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We were helped off partly, but not out of politeness,

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they had to, they wanted us to get down already.

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And they went back to see who was left in many other boxcars,

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or how you call them, cattle, cattle wagons?

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Many people died before they arrived.

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In, in, in the one I was, nobody.

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And then, men and women were separated, that was a very tearful,

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very, very emotional sight the way they clung

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to each other and they didn't want to be separated and they wanted to stay together.

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There was lots of ah yelling, shouting: "Los, los."

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And lots of ah, ah yelling, crying, hysterics faintings.

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It is impossible to describe it even, until they could seperate the two groups.

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And we didn't know where the men were taken.

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IV: What about the children?

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They also were, the little boys came with the men or they were seperated with..

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AG: No, no, they were, they were, they stayed with the women.

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Children stayed with the women.

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Nobody ever asked me this, I didn't think of it.

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And then, we were going to our, to a certain point.

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And my mother was very scared and very worried and she told us to keep on going the way the line is moving.

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And she is going to the front and see what's going on

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and of course from both sides there were ah SS with guns pointing at us and she risked,

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she risked this, her life I would say, but told she has to find out what's going on.

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She has to know what's the next step should be.

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And when she came back she told us never to mention family ties,

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because she saw that whenever someone told: "Let me go with my mother, let me go with my grandmother."

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Or with my daughter or sister.

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That was immediately, yeah, select ah I mean, separated.

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Then she saw that they asked ages, she heard under 16

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they were automatically send to the, to a certain side.

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She didn't know what was good, what was bad.

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The women with, whoever had a child with ah her, definitely went to the other side, we called it.

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Ah these babies naturally, pregnant women of course, ah old people also, sick people also, people who couldn't walk, also.

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So she observed that ah the able-bodied women might be sent to a working camp,

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she thought, and she came back and told us this.

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And then she told: "You can't say your age."

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We were 13, my, my sister and I was 14.

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She told: "You can't say, you have to say 18 and 19 at least."

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And she will say five years younger, if it came to it that they asked her.

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And then they ah asked all, they, they looked over also whether people were healthy and, and moving well.

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So she warned us how to behave in case we were asked.

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It went terribly quickly, left, right, left, right.

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There was not much to think about.

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And then she saw that we had scarfs with us

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and she told we should bind our scarfs on our head in a way that we should look older and it was like this {putting the scarf on}.

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My sister and me we both bind, bound our heads that way.

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And we don't know exactly what helped, but we were sent all the three of us to one side.

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IV: And then you stood there still beside the trains?

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AG: Not any more, not any more.

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We were sent to a building ah in a big, big hall and we sat on the cold stone for hours

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we were waiting we didn't know for what.

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And then they came and took our bags away,

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this bag we had to, we could take with us, ah my sister and me, we had a doll, watch,

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I had a new watch, I had a book that I read currently, I took a dress I remember

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and we had to put it down in one of the corners of this big hall.

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And grown-ups didn't have such not un.., unremarkable stuff.

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They had documents, money, jewels, pictures, they didn't want to part from the bags..

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They were hysterical, they were crying, they were begging, they were ah fainting.

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But they didn't let them.

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They told you: "Put it in that corner."

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Of course that we were ah, everything was on gun point.

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So, I don't know what my mother heard, but I imagined that she was also desperate

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and had to get, had to part with her bag.

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{Breathing} They were, everybody was in a very bad situation

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and every time we thought that is the worst, but it wasn't.

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After that we had to undress and that was the utmost humiliation.

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They told us to undress everything, to not to have on anything.

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Now ah besides the humiliation it was again the point that ah most of the women had sewn in their cloth

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and in their pockets, but they thought that if the bags get lost

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or it will be taken maybe, but they didn't think it will be,

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will have, they will have to think of something else.

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So they took some of the jewels, some of the money, documents, pictures, what ever they could think of,

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whatever was very, very important for them they sew it in the linings up the cloth

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or in the pockets and now they have to take it off.

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So it started all over again the beggings, the cryings, the faintings, the screamings.

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It's impossible to, to, to imagine what was going on.

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{Breathing} But we had no other way.

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And then we were standing there without anything on and then they came to shave all hairs of all from our body.

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That was, I can't tell what humiliation it meant.

219
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And after it more, they desinfected us with, they sprayed us with a disinfectant,

220
00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:28,332
so, we just, we just couldn't breath even, we couldn't even recognize each other

221
00:20:28,333 --> 00:20:34,332
without hair and, and ah without cloth and ah {breathing}..

222
00:20:34,333 --> 00:20:35,832
IV: Who did this work?

223
00:20:35,833 --> 00:20:40,499
Other inmates from this camps or soldiers or female soldiers?

224
00:20:40,500 --> 00:20:46,332
AG: Female soldiers, but men soldiers were, were present all the time, so it was getting worse even.

225
00:20:46,333 --> 00:20:50,999
I, I couldn't even look who, who, who it was.

226
00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:56,299
It was so unpleasant and so unbelievable.

227
00:20:56,300 --> 00:21:02,566
And then we were sent to the showers and then we didn't know

228
00:21:02,567 --> 00:21:08,832
that in the other barracks all those people who were sent to the other side,

229
00:21:08,833 --> 00:21:14,132
we had no idea that they had gas coming from the showers.

230
00:21:14,133 --> 00:21:19,599
We didn't know and we didn't find out for a long, long time.

231
00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:31,232
So after the showers we were ah led to another hall and we had to pass by a big pile of cloth

232
00:21:31,233 --> 00:21:37,666
and as we were passing by slowly everybody could took, everybody could take a dress and the shoe.

233
00:21:37,667 --> 00:21:41,399
Whether the shoe fits or not, it wasn't important and

234
00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:47,266
of course no underwear, no nothing, just one single dress.

235
00:21:47,267 --> 00:21:53,566
After this was done, we were sitting on the cold stone again for hours and waiting,

236
00:21:53,567 --> 00:21:55,366
we didn't know for what.

237
00:21:55,367 --> 00:22:01,532
And the way we looked and the way we felt, was anyhow, nothing was important anymore.

238
00:22:01,533 --> 00:22:05,232
And then we were given two grey blankets.

239
00:22:05,233 --> 00:22:11,766
Everything was grey in Auschwitz, the blankets, the barracks, the air, everything.

240
00:22:11,767 --> 00:22:19,332
And then we were sent to barracks that had three floors, three pritsches.

241
00:22:19,333 --> 00:22:19,999
IV: So, from (???)

242
00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:29,432
AG: Yes, yes. And there were six, seven women on one of them, on each one ah 

243
00:22:29,433 --> 00:22:36,966
And we had these two blankets with us, we could use it underneath or we could cover with it.

244
00:22:36,967 --> 00:22:42,999
And sometimes they got wet and we're standing still Zählappell was the way,

245
00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:49,032
that we spent our time in Auschwitz, we were standing outside in five lines,

246
00:22:49,033 --> 00:22:52,432
rows and they came to count us all the time,

247
00:22:52,433 --> 00:22:57,266
three, four times a day and when it was raining these blankets got wet.

248
00:22:57,267 --> 00:22:59,432
Or this only dress we had on got wet.

249
00:22:59,433 --> 00:23:02,066
We had to deal with it.

250
00:23:02,067 --> 00:23:07,199
And it was a very bad situation.

251
00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:12,932
IV: At this time did you know that you had been in Auschwitz or had you ever heard the name Auschwitz before?

252
00:23:12,933 --> 00:23:15,566
AG: I have never, never.

253
00:23:15,567 --> 00:23:20,732
So there we heard that we were in Birkenau in Auschwitz, I am not quite sure.

254
00:23:20,733 --> 00:23:23,166
And we didn't know what it meant.

255
00:23:23,167 --> 00:23:27,866
We didn't know it was a ah extermination camp.

256
00:23:27,867 --> 00:23:33,199
We had no idea and my mother spoke to all the grown-ups around her.

257
00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:37,966
They were mostly friends from Miskolc from our city.

258
00:23:37,967 --> 00:23:42,166
Not to let my sister and me know, what's going on.

259
00:23:42,167 --> 00:23:47,032
And whenever something bad was going on, did she, we were taken away,

260
00:23:47,033 --> 00:23:56,066
we shouldn't know and she was very scared of our, our a moods and, and ah knowledge,

261
00:23:56,067 --> 00:24:00,532
we shouldn't be involved in anything that's scary.

262
00:24:00,533 --> 00:24:06,232
And she succeeded, we never found out what happened until the liberation.

263
00:24:06,233 --> 00:24:13,999
In this she succeeded, so after ah two weeks I suppose there were selections daily,

264
00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:23,266
she was so scared of these selections, she knew that if one of us will be sent somewhere else

265
00:24:23,267 --> 00:24:27,066
ah we will not survive, that she was sure of it.

266
00:24:27,067 --> 00:24:30,032
And she did everything to keep us together.

267
00:24:30,033 --> 00:24:36,866
And she kept taking of my glasses to put them sideways in her shoe, to hide it.

268
00:24:36,867 --> 00:24:40,132
That I shouldn't look different like anybody else.

269
00:24:40,133 --> 00:24:42,966
And I should have my glasses.

270
00:24:42,967 --> 00:24:50,332
And then we were selected together and taken to the railway station and into the wagons again.

271
00:24:50,333 --> 00:24:56,299
And we were sent out of Auschwitz at last to Plaszow.

272
00:24:56,300 --> 00:24:59,666
We didn't know, we didn't know it was Plaszow, we didn't know what it meant,

273
00:24:59,667 --> 00:25:00,999
we didn't know what it was.

274
00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:03,499
Later Spielberg made a film there.

275
00:25:03,500 --> 00:25:05,999
IV: It's not so far.

276
00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:07,999
It's not so far from Auschwitz?

277
00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:10,866
AG: It was an hours train ride.

278
00:25:10,867 --> 00:25:12,999
IV: Yeah, yeah.

279
00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:16,566
AG: And it was much worse.

280
00:25:16,567 --> 00:25:21,799
It was better only in a way that there were no selections.

281
00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:26,632
So we didn't have to be, have this scare every single day to be separated.

282
00:25:26,633 --> 00:25:32,232
But it was ah camp of ah I could say a camp of torture,

283
00:25:32,233 --> 00:25:38,066
but what I didn't see ah I don't, I am not going to talk about it.

284
00:25:38,067 --> 00:25:40,899
I heard a lot of stories, later.

285
00:25:40,900 --> 00:25:45,666
My mother was careful we shouldn't hear it there.

286
00:25:45,667 --> 00:25:50,432
We did a very ah humiliating work.

287
00:25:50,433 --> 00:25:54,699
We had to take big rocks, carry them up the hill,

288
00:25:54,700 --> 00:25:58,132
next day we had to carry them back, back down.

289
00:25:58,133 --> 00:26:07,366
My sister was thirteen and out of frail she couldn't lift those rocks that they showed her to take

290
00:26:07,367 --> 00:26:11,632
and when she couldn't move it and pick it up she was very badly beaten.

291
00:26:11,633 --> 00:26:16,332
Nor my mother and me couldn't do anything, we couldn't say that we could help or something,

292
00:26:16,333 --> 00:26:21,966
because we were not suppose to say that, that we were family.

293
00:26:21,967 --> 00:26:25,899
So she had to deal with it.

294
00:26:25,900 --> 00:26:30,532
Ah I will not even talk what was going on in Plaszow with other people,

295
00:26:30,533 --> 00:26:35,099
things that I haven't seen and haven't experienced myself.

296
00:26:35,100 --> 00:26:38,699
We were working a lot in the sun.

297
00:26:38,700 --> 00:26:47,799
We were very s.., we looked very bad, we were sunburned and our skin was peeling and ah, ah

298
00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:55,899
we had pains and, and ah we were tired and the food was a little bit only better than in Auschwitz.

299
00:26:55,900 --> 00:27:01,199
And ah it was hard.

300
00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:08,732
IV: So you told that this work you had to do was totaly senseless?

301
00:27:08,733 --> 00:27:09,999
AG: Totally, totally senseless.

302
00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:17,032
IV: Also and other people, was there also work like in other camps to produce things

303
00:27:17,033 --> 00:27:20,366
like weapons or something in Plaszow or you didn't see, you didn't..

304
00:27:20,367 --> 00:27:21,132
AG: I didn't see.

305
00:27:21,133 --> 00:27:25,199
I know one more working place that we sometimes did it.

306
00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:36,466
We were sitting on the ground and hammering small stones into a small path that it should be straight.

307
00:27:36,467 --> 00:27:44,866
Ah there were many, many other working places that I don't personally know about

308
00:27:44,867 --> 00:27:52,366
and then we hoped that we are going to be liberated by the Russians as we heard some gun shots,

309
00:27:52,367 --> 00:27:53,832
we thought they are nearing.

310
00:27:53,833 --> 00:28:04,999
And we were big, ah hopeful, but they liquidated the camp and they did not.

311
00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:07,332
IV: You like to drink a little bit?

312
00:28:07,333 --> 00:28:09,666
AG: Ah thank you.

313
00:28:09,667 --> 00:28:14,532
They took the whole camp to the railway station into the wagons.

314
00:28:14,533 --> 00:28:21,766
And this time, my sister and me at the first time we were so desperate we couldn't stop crying.

315
00:28:21,767 --> 00:28:32,832
Because in Plaszow as bad as it was we knew, you know, sometimes you, it's very bad, but you it, it's known, it's familiar.

316
00:28:32,833 --> 00:28:40,066
And to go back again to the wagons and start this travel, we didn't know where,

317
00:28:40,067 --> 00:28:42,666
where to and my mother kept on telling:

318
00:28:42,667 --> 00:28:44,666
"You were in Auschwitz, it was the worst.

319
00:28:44,667 --> 00:28:50,166
You were in Plaszow, it was, not, not much better, but it was also bad,

320
00:28:50,167 --> 00:28:52,432
you can be taken only to a better place."

321
00:28:52,433 --> 00:29:01,332
So, she kept on telling us the whole hour and then the train stopped and when they opened the door

322
00:29:01,333 --> 00:29:06,499
we just couldn't believe our eyes, we were back in Auschwitz.

323
00:29:06,500 --> 00:29:10,866
So this time my mother had really nothing to say anymore.

324
00:29:10,867 --> 00:29:18,366
She only saw one officer alone, selecting, that's how I remember it.

325
00:29:18,367 --> 00:29:21,199
The information is, that it was Mengele.

326
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:23,566
We didn't know of course that he was a doctor.

327
00:29:23,567 --> 00:29:26,699
We didn't know the experiments, we didn't know what he was doing there,

328
00:29:26,700 --> 00:29:30,699
but we saw that he was selecting alone.

329
00:29:30,700 --> 00:29:34,432
And then my mother really got scared, she told,

330
00:29:34,433 --> 00:29:39,999
she will go first, sister will be next and I will be the third.

331
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:44,532
And we should try to follow her wherever she was sent, she took this risk,

332
00:29:44,533 --> 00:29:48,299
because she didn't think that we can survive without her.

333
00:29:48,300 --> 00:29:57,666
Or we should say or try to get to a working camp and say that it's a working camp, in case it's possible.

334
00:29:57,667 --> 00:30:06,499
So she kept on telling this to us and ah, because I, my face and my whole skin was peeling all the time

335
00:30:06,500 --> 00:30:09,532
so that's why she thought that I should be the last

336
00:30:09,533 --> 00:30:14,532
and she trusted me that I'll go where she was sent to.

337
00:30:14,533 --> 00:30:22,299
So she went in front of him, in front of Mengele and she was sent right and so was my sister.

338
00:30:22,300 --> 00:30:25,499
And I was sent to the left.

339
00:30:25,500 --> 00:30:28,566
Then I told him:

340
00:30:28,567 --> 00:30:32,499
"No, please, please, let me go to that side."

341
00:30:32,500 --> 00:30:34,832
He says: "Why, what is on that side?"

342
00:30:34,833 --> 00:30:35,899
I told: "The working camp."

343
00:30:35,900 --> 00:30:39,866
Of course I didn't say that it was my mother or sister.

344
00:30:39,867 --> 00:30:43,999
Ah she really prepared us well and he told: "You don't,

345
00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:46,099
what, what you want to do in a working camp?

346
00:30:46,100 --> 00:30:48,999
You don't look to me who can still work."

347
00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:51,999
But then he realized that we were talking German.

348
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:56,132
And then he asked: "How do you speak German that well?"

349
00:30:56,133 --> 00:31:00,832
And somehow something changed and he told: "Ok, go there."

350
00:31:00,833 --> 00:31:03,199
IV: He was talking in German to you?

351
00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:04,399
AG: And I was talking in German.

352
00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:06,832
IV: Yeah, but he, when he asked?

353
00:31:06,833 --> 00:31:11,266
AG: Yes, yes, he was talking in German, I was answering in German.

354
00:31:11,267 --> 00:31:16,399
And ah he was impressed enough to let me go wherever I asked to go.

355
00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:23,999
So, I was safe, but my mother from far, when she saw, what was going on, she was sure, she lost me.

356
00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:35,666
And she fainted and she didn't ah come to herself yet, when I arrived even to, to that side.

357
00:31:35,667 --> 00:31:40,666
So at least we were again together.

358
00:31:40,667 --> 00:31:49,399
And then came another humiliation, we were tattooed on our left arm,

359
00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:54,566
the letter A, Auschwitz, and a long number.

360
00:31:54,567 --> 00:31:55,399
All the three of us.

361
00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:57,899
And then I fainted.

362
00:31:57,900 --> 00:32:04,999
Maybe also from the shock of almost being sent somewhere else, I didn't know what it meant.

363
00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:10,566
I didn't know that it was ah the crematorium, I didn't know these things.

364
00:32:10,567 --> 00:32:17,932
But to be separated from the family I knew that it, I won't make it.

365
00:32:17,933 --> 00:32:24,366
And then the pain after tattooing, so I fainted.

366
00:32:24,367 --> 00:32:28,166
IV: So that was the first time, you got tattooed in all this?

367
00:32:28,167 --> 00:32:30,999
AG: Yes, but it was the second time in Auschwitz.

368
00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:37,132
We didn't get in the, at the first time.

369
00:32:37,133 --> 00:32:39,999
IV: And then you've been brought to barracks?

370
00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:46,666
AG: Yes, then we were brought to barracks and we had an incident.

371
00:32:46,667 --> 00:32:54,432
Ah, my mother had some wounds, someth.., something on her shoulders,

372
00:32:54,433 --> 00:32:59,166
because someone stood on her shoulder to look out the window where we were taken to

373
00:32:59,167 --> 00:33:04,799
and they were afraid that it might be contagious,

374
00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:11,132
so she was sent to a quarantine barrack and we were sent to a different one.

375
00:33:11,133 --> 00:33:15,166
And she was scared of course of the selections that we were,

376
00:33:15,167 --> 00:33:21,199
this time we can be separated easily and she will not be able to join us or vice versa.

377
00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:29,166
So she agreed with a girl whose sister was in our barrack to ex.., to get exchanged.

378
00:33:29,167 --> 00:33:38,866
And when the evening came and the time came to, to make the change, the girl got scared and she stayed.

379
00:33:38,867 --> 00:33:45,732
And my mother came and that meant that in our barrack there was one more

380
00:33:45,733 --> 00:33:50,799
and when the Zählappell was done in the evening and they saw that there is one more

381
00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:54,899
and they wanted to find out who it was.

382
00:33:54,900 --> 00:34:01,066
And they threatened us that it, when they found out that it was missing from the quarantine barrack

383
00:34:01,067 --> 00:34:05,399
of course we were only numbers, there were no names,

384
00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:10,332
they ah threatened us that we are going to die, we are going to be sick,

385
00:34:10,333 --> 00:34:17,032
we are going to be this and the people were told, tell who it was who joined you.

386
00:34:17,033 --> 00:34:22,532
Now my mother was highly respected for one reason.

387
00:34:22,533 --> 00:34:35,866
Ah the hunger was really very bad and many mothers or daughters stole from each other at night

388
00:34:35,867 --> 00:34:42,566
the piece of bread that they put aside and when it was found out of course there were beatings and shoutings

389
00:34:42,567 --> 00:34:47,332
and yellings and cryings and ah almost everybody did it.

390
00:34:47,333 --> 00:34:52,166
That was ah such a situation where you were not human even anymore sometimes.

391
00:34:52,167 --> 00:35:00,499
And they respected my Mum, because she did not steel from us, on the contrary,

392
00:35:00,500 --> 00:35:03,466
she came and told us sometimes to my sister and me that:

393
00:35:03,467 --> 00:35:10,866
"Look, I had my portion already and here have another, another slice or ah half a slice"

394
00:35:10,867 --> 00:35:14,299
and they couldn't understand how she could do it.

395
00:35:14,300 --> 00:35:21,332
And they knew that she joined us, so nobody, nobody was ready to tell it.

396
00:35:21,333 --> 00:35:31,866
And then they came this another SSs who told us, that if you don't tell it the whole barrack will be shot.

397
00:35:31,867 --> 00:35:34,432
And still nobody told it.

398
00:35:34,433 --> 00:35:38,899
And we stood till five o' clock in the morning Zählappell,

399
00:35:38,900 --> 00:35:43,699
outside and we don't know and we never found out what was the reason,

400
00:35:43,700 --> 00:35:49,432
but we were sent back to the barracks and we were not shot.

401
00:35:49,433 --> 00:35:51,232
So that was one of the incidents.

402
00:35:51,233 --> 00:35:56,966
The other, other let's say it was pleasant, somehow, the other incident,

403
00:35:56,967 --> 00:36:02,166
when one of ah we found out that one of the young women from Miskolc

404
00:36:02,167 --> 00:36:08,799
was an opera singer and we asked her to sing to us.

405
00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:12,832
And ah it was hard to convince her, because

406
00:36:12,833 --> 00:36:16,166
ah at the selections her mother was sent to the other side,

407
00:36:16,167 --> 00:36:20,999
when we came back from Plaszow and she was desperate and her si..,

408
00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:23,966
she was also, also two girls with their mother,

409
00:36:23,967 --> 00:36:30,399
and her sister was with her, but ah she was in no mood to sing of course, but she did it.

410
00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:39,099
And ah we applauded her so much and loved her so much for it that she did it

411
00:36:39,100 --> 00:36:47,432
every couple of days and that lifted our spirits really, really for the time being.

412
00:36:47,433 --> 00:36:50,332
IV: Can you remember what kind of songs, or?

413
00:36:50,333 --> 00:36:54,166
AG: Traviata.

414
00:36:54,167 --> 00:36:57,532
I remember most opera arias, that are very well known,

415
00:36:57,533 --> 00:37:01,599
but the Traviata was very, very impressive for us.

416
00:37:01,600 --> 00:37:11,166
Also because of those words and so this, this really meant a lot.

417
00:37:11,167 --> 00:37:18,399
And then someone found out an old accquaintance of my mother was working in the kitchen

418
00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:23,566
and she found out, she was afraid to ask whether we are with her, my sister and me,

419
00:37:23,567 --> 00:37:29,032
and I and she sent us raw cabbage, every now and then,

420
00:37:29,033 --> 00:37:35,732
when she could find us and might have been a lifesaver in a way

421
00:37:35,733 --> 00:37:42,699
until we were selected again and sent to the station again.

422
00:37:42,700 --> 00:37:46,732
IV: Can you remember how many days you have been in this situation?

423
00:37:46,733 --> 00:37:46,999
AG: Weeks, weeks.

424
00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:55,366
IV: Weeks, weeks, and so after this ah first ah thing you mentioned, wou.., ah

425
00:37:55,367 --> 00:38:00,799
where ah nobody told ah the guards that your mother is the one,

426
00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:04,166
who, who came back so and they ah told you:

427
00:38:04,167 --> 00:38:06,166
"We are gonna shoot you, all."

428
00:38:06,167 --> 00:38:07,666
Did somebody change?

429
00:38:07,667 --> 00:38:10,966
So in, in your imagination what could happen?

430
00:38:10,967 --> 00:38:14,666
Or, or are they, are treating the people?

431
00:38:14,667 --> 00:38:19,999
CM: Ah, sie müsste mal das Papier aus der Hand nehmen, weil das {???}

432
00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:20,999
IV: Das krazt? Das Tempo Taschentuch?

433
00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:25,999
CM:  Ja, sie tut die ganze Zeit so mitm Tempo machen und direkt vorm Mikrofon.

434
00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:29,166
IV: Ah, excuse me, do you need the ah, ah,

435
00:38:29,167 --> 00:38:30,266
AG: Ah, ok.

436
00:38:30,267 --> 00:38:31,332
IV: It makes some noice sometimes.

437
00:38:31,333 --> 00:38:34,099
AG: I didn't know, I didn't know, oh good you just say so.

438
00:38:34,100 --> 00:38:38,332
IV: But he can, can hear it, with the ear phones and..

439
00:38:38,333 --> 00:38:39,999
AG: Ok, sorry.

440
00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:42,866
IV: Make a noise, we cannot hear.

441
00:38:42,867 --> 00:38:45,332
CM: What's that? {Cell phone ringing} 

442
00:38:45,333 --> 00:38:49,299
IV: I forgot to turn off my ..

443
00:38:49,300 --> 00:38:59,999
AG: You know, we were in such an inhuman situation, position, ah desperate, ah starving,

444
00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:06,399
we were so thirsty in most of the time, ah even sleep deprived ah,

445
00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:12,666
we were not quite, we were not ourselves at all, so, who was thinking?

446
00:39:12,667 --> 00:39:14,999
Look, if someone would have told, who it was,

447
00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:18,799
well we would have accept it, what could we do?

448
00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:21,832
But we knew somehow that nobody will tell.

449
00:39:21,833 --> 00:39:23,666
Somehow we knew.

450
00:39:23,667 --> 00:39:30,232
And my mother wasn't scared eigther, I mean it was a, it was a situation where you, you,

451
00:39:30,233 --> 00:39:35,266
ah you couldn't even talk, we were standing, standing in this Appellplatz for, for so many hours.

452
00:39:35,267 --> 00:39:38,066
All, all our concern was that we can't stand even anymore,

453
00:39:38,067 --> 00:39:40,666
when we can, we have to drink something, we have to eat something,

454
00:39:40,667 --> 00:39:44,999
we, we were not thinking anymore.

455
00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:49,332
IV: So we're now, we came to the time you got selected again or?

456
00:39:49,333 --> 00:39:50,332
AG: Yes.

457
00:39:50,333 --> 00:39:51,699
IV: Maybe you can go on?

458
00:39:51,700 --> 00:40:03,299
AG: And we were s.., ah lucky again, three of us together, but that was already September,

459
00:40:03,300 --> 00:40:11,099
and we were stands to the r.., we were sent to the railway station,

460
00:40:11,100 --> 00:40:14,999
that's the forth time I was in this railway station

461
00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:23,199
and back into the wagons and ah the wagons started and we didn't know again where to.

462
00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:28,466
And ah my mother again kept on consoling us, that it can't be worse,

463
00:40:28,467 --> 00:40:33,032
and this won't be worse and we should cheer up and

464
00:40:33,033 --> 00:40:39,766
think positively and whatever they say at these days, but it was terribly cold.

465
00:40:39,767 --> 00:40:46,666
And it wasn't winter yet, but it was very cold those nights and we with the

466
00:40:46,667 --> 00:40:51,799
little cloth we had on and this time we didn't have any blankets even.

467
00:40:51,800 --> 00:41:00,932
And we had no shoes proper, proper shoes and we had no proper clothing and no food no drink ah

468
00:41:00,933 --> 00:41:13,066
during this ah trip and we were sent to Rochlitz, to Germany and

469
00:41:13,067 --> 00:41:19,599
when they opened ah doors, at least we didn't see a camp.

470
00:41:19,600 --> 00:41:29,432
Ah Rochlitz was a very small camp and we were chosen, selected actually 200 women,

471
00:41:29,433 --> 00:41:35,832
20 Polish and 180 Hungarians.

472
00:41:35,833 --> 00:41:41,499
And we were brought to a barrack and they told us,

473
00:41:41,500 --> 00:41:48,266
we are going to be taught how to make small spare parts, screws, for aeroplanes.

474
00:41:48,267 --> 00:41:52,466
But it's not the factory where we are going to work, it's the school actually

475
00:41:52,467 --> 00:41:57,399
where we are going to be taught how to do it.

476
00:41:57,400 --> 00:42:06,399
So in a way we felt good, that we are humans that we are not just a number, we are not cattles,

477
00:42:06,400 --> 00:42:12,466
we are treated better, but the discipline was very, very harsh.

478
00:42:12,467 --> 00:42:17,766
Food was a little bit better and the sleeping quarters were of course much better,

479
00:42:17,767 --> 00:42:21,032
but it was, all the time we were scared,

480
00:42:21,033 --> 00:42:26,299
all the time, it was very hard discipline and threats and ah,

481
00:42:26,300 --> 00:42:33,799
and there were women guards, SS guards who were in many ways worse

482
00:42:33,800 --> 00:42:38,332
and we were there a couple of weeks.

483
00:42:38,333 --> 00:42:41,632
IV: And how many hours a day you had to work?

484
00:42:41,633 --> 00:42:42,066
So or was it just to learn you..

485
00:42:42,067 --> 00:42:49,399
AG: It wasn't bad, it was just to teach us, it wasn't so bad

486
00:42:49,400 --> 00:42:56,666
and ah what was bad was the cold and ah the whole situation of course.

487
00:42:56,667 --> 00:43:01,699
My sister had suffered very much, because she saw in September,

488
00:43:01,700 --> 00:43:05,632
it was September that the school children, she saw school children from,

489
00:43:05,633 --> 00:43:12,366
we were taken to another location that I can't recall where to

490
00:43:12,367 --> 00:43:15,832
and she saw school children with bags and she broke and

491
00:43:15,833 --> 00:43:20,099
she cried for two days that she will never go to school anymore.

492
00:43:20,100 --> 00:43:22,932
I couldn't care less.

493
00:43:22,933 --> 00:43:32,299
And that was the end of September when we were sent to,

494
00:43:32,300 --> 00:43:39,199
I can't remember by train, by bus, I had no idea how we got to Stuttgart.

495
00:43:39,200 --> 00:43:50,499
Near Stuttgart to Calw into the aeroplane factory, spare parts factory.

496
00:43:50,500 --> 00:43:54,266
And there it was very bad.

497
00:43:54,267 --> 00:44:00,466
They, people told us, our guards, that we are not supposed go near, go near the windows.

498
00:44:00,467 --> 00:44:09,266
We had no ah fresh air for weeks, no daylight.

499
00:44:09,267 --> 00:44:12,466
We were working from seven in the evening till seven in the morning

500
00:44:12,467 --> 00:44:20,966
near monotonous machines that, that have put you to sleep even without being night.

501
00:44:20,967 --> 00:44:26,932
And it was very hard to stay awake and do our job.

502
00:44:26,933 --> 00:44:34,799
One girl lost her balance, because she fell asleep and she fell into the machine.

503
00:44:34,800 --> 00:44:40,132
She was very badly hurt, she didn't die, she survived it.

504
00:44:40,133 --> 00:44:50,066
One woman got Typhus, we thought that we are all going to get it, somehow I don't know, we didn't, she died.

505
00:44:50,067 --> 00:44:58,899
Ah my, one day my mother fainted, because her stone exploded,

506
00:44:58,900 --> 00:45:01,966
it was a filing stone, a big filing stone.

507
00:45:01,967 --> 00:45:05,732
I was working on a revolver Drehbank.

508
00:45:05,733 --> 00:45:12,766
I got the piece of Aluminium and the plans and I had to make a screw out of it and I did.

509
00:45:12,767 --> 00:45:15,666
And when it was too big, it went to her departement

510
00:45:15,667 --> 00:45:22,232
where they filed it the ac.., the necessary size

511
00:45:22,233 --> 00:45:24,766
and my sister was in the controlling departement

512
00:45:24,767 --> 00:45:28,399
where they checked whether the size was right.

513
00:45:28,400 --> 00:45:36,532
So she filed ah these little screws and the stone exploded, she fainted

514
00:45:36,533 --> 00:45:39,999
and they explained her that the stone is very, not only expensive,

515
00:45:40,000 --> 00:45:48,166
but very rare and they, it will take a long time until they can have another one, until it comes in

516
00:45:48,167 --> 00:45:53,432
the screws will stay in the cartons near the doors.

517
00:45:53,433 --> 00:45:55,932
They can't do, they can't send them out.

518
00:45:55,933 --> 00:46:02,132
And then she realized that maybe this was a good idea, she could make some mini sabotage

519
00:46:02,133 --> 00:46:07,899
and keep those screws from arriving to the planes.

520
00:46:07,900 --> 00:46:09,999
And so she did it many times.

521
00:46:10,000 --> 00:46:16,499
The stone exploded, she fainted and nobody found out, of course we kids, we didn't know.

522
00:46:16,500 --> 00:46:22,132
We had no idea that it was real, we thought really that it ah happened again,

523
00:46:22,133 --> 00:46:25,632
so the maximum what could have happened, they thought she was stupid.

524
00:46:25,633 --> 00:46:32,999
Nobody thought that she is doing it on purpose {breathing}.

525
00:46:33,000 --> 00:46:44,366
Ah one day {clearing the throat} they came to tell us that this period is also done, finished, we have to leave.

526
00:46:44,367 --> 00:46:52,366
So we thought, ok, we are going to get into the wagons again and god knows were, but we have to leave.

527
00:46:52,367 --> 00:46:59,066
But there were no wagons, we had to walk.

528
00:46:59,067 --> 00:47:08,366
Ah, it was unimaginable, that was already January, February, it was the end of February,

529
00:47:08,367 --> 00:47:14,499
the cold was impossible and we were supposed to walk only at night.

530
00:47:14,500 --> 00:47:16,666
IV: There was snow?

531
00:47:16,667 --> 00:47:19,866
AG: I don't remember snow.

532
00:47:19,867 --> 00:47:23,132
That was later than February, it was March already.

533
00:47:23,133 --> 00:47:27,499
I have, I can't remember.

534
00:47:27,500 --> 00:47:31,632
You know there was this 50-year silence, I never mentioned,

535
00:47:31,633 --> 00:47:35,566
where we tried everything in our power to forget what happened

536
00:47:35,567 --> 00:47:41,832
and nobody wanted to talk about it and we really tried hard to forget.

537
00:47:41,833 --> 00:47:50,832
And my mother and sister mostly they didn't ah want to talk about it even, they didn't even, after I

538
00:47:50,833 --> 00:47:54,666
came up with a question or wanted to know really something, they told:

539
00:47:54,667 --> 00:47:59,232
"You survived, you just don't mention it anymore."

540
00:47:59,233 --> 00:48:05,232
So, many things I really can't remember, couldn't remember

541
00:48:05,233 --> 00:48:15,332
and anyhow we had to leave and it was the start of the death march the way it was called.

542
00:48:15,333 --> 00:48:23,199
I can't describe what it was ah really we, we had no proper clothing of course, we had no proper shoes,

543
00:48:23,200 --> 00:48:32,499
we had no hats, gloves, scarfs, underwear, it was undescribable, food, drinks I'm not even mentioning anymore.

544
00:48:32,500 --> 00:48:41,666
{Breathing} We, I think, we took one blanket, that was not helpful at all.

545
00:48:41,667 --> 00:48:44,099
And they wanted us to walk only at night.

546
00:48:44,100 --> 00:48:52,432
They didn't want the people, the villagers to see us and to ask questions, who we are.

547
00:48:52,433 --> 00:48:54,232
IV: And during day time?

548
00:48:54,233 --> 00:48:56,632
You have been sleeping somewhere or?

549
00:48:56,633 --> 00:48:58,399
AG: They found us barns.

550
00:48:58,400 --> 00:48:59,999
IV: Yeah.

551
00:49:00,000 --> 00:49:04,999
AG: And they found us, we, we had to find ourselves, they tried to find us something to eat.

552
00:49:05,000 --> 00:49:08,332
Sometimes it was milk, sometimes it was bread.

553
00:49:08,333 --> 00:49:18,099
We found us, we found ourselves the ah raw potatos, raw cabbage and we lived on it for a long time.

554
00:49:18,100 --> 00:49:26,266
And ah I don't know, what they told to the villagers, who we were, what we were.

555
00:49:26,267 --> 00:49:31,799
Sometimes they brought us something, most of the time no

556
00:49:31,800 --> 00:49:36,332
and ah it took a long, long time this walk.

557
00:49:36,333 --> 00:49:37,999
It was four hundred kilometers.

558
00:49:38,000 --> 00:49:48,366
We were supposed to get to either Mauthausen or Dachau and we got till Garmisch-Partenkirchen,

559
00:49:48,367 --> 00:49:53,432
but before we got to Garmisch-Partenkirchen I just really couldn't walk anymore

560
00:49:53,433 --> 00:49:55,766
and one of the guards was helping me and told me

561
00:49:55,767 --> 00:49:59,699
that we have to get to a station and then we can continue by train.

562
00:49:59,700 --> 00:50:08,432
Now, some other people who understood German told us in Hungarian, that this is not true,

563
00:50:08,433 --> 00:50:17,899
they are taking us to a railway station where they are waiting for trains with guns and the order to execute us.

564
00:50:17,900 --> 00:50:20,666
"So just don't hurry so much", they told us.

565
00:50:20,667 --> 00:50:23,166
Well, I couldn't hurry anyhow, I just sat down, I told:

566
00:50:23,167 --> 00:50:26,966
"I don't care, I don't, I just can't walk anymore."

567
00:50:26,967 --> 00:50:32,766
And I was the, the last one in the line.

568
00:50:32,767 --> 00:50:36,732
And we didn't know what to believe, but we didn't even care anymore,

569
00:50:36,733 --> 00:50:42,099
you know, we were so cold and so hungry and this time the tiredness were added to it.

570
00:50:42,100 --> 00:50:51,199
That, we just, the, the despair was, was undescribable so we just couldn't cope anymore.

571
00:50:51,200 --> 00:50:59,199
But they, we were, we were on gun point and we heared it later,

572
00:50:59,200 --> 00:51:04,999
not then, we didn't know that many death marches ended with ah lots of ah casualties,

573
00:51:05,000 --> 00:51:09,899
because those who couldn't continue walking they were shot and left on the roadside.

574
00:51:09,900 --> 00:51:15,266
We didn't know it and even if we had known, I don't think we would have cared anymore.

575
00:51:15,267 --> 00:51:20,999
So we got to the railway station somehow and the trains left.

576
00:51:21,000 --> 00:51:24,232
So there was, there were no guns to execute us,

577
00:51:24,233 --> 00:51:27,999
what we didn't know, we found out after a couple of days.

578
00:51:28,000 --> 00:51:33,866
And ah, there were white envelopes given to the officers,

579
00:51:33,867 --> 00:51:37,099
not to the soldiers, that's what we saw from far

580
00:51:37,100 --> 00:51:43,799
and they contained ah false papers to go to Switzerland for the officers.

581
00:51:43,800 --> 00:51:47,766
All this we found out a couple of days later.

582
00:51:47,767 --> 00:51:57,432
And we were sent back to the forrest, there were creeks in those forrests

583
00:51:57,433 --> 00:52:02,966
with small stones and my foot was bleeding and I was hurting

584
00:52:02,967 --> 00:52:12,832
and I really didn't care anymore and it was the worst, worst day of my whole ah year, let's put it that way.

585
00:52:12,833 --> 00:52:17,599
And I just said: "No more, that's it, I really, really don't care anymore."

586
00:52:17,600 --> 00:52:22,899
And then somebody told: "Look around there are no guards around us."

587
00:52:22,900 --> 00:52:33,432
And then ah the twenty Polish people were actually the Kapos and the Lagerälteste during the whole period

588
00:52:33,433 --> 00:52:41,299
so the Lagerälteste called us to be around her

589
00:52:41,300 --> 00:52:47,132
and she let us know that: "From today the 28th of April you are free."

590
00:52:47,133 --> 00:52:54,632
So, yeah, it was impossible to understand even the, the

591
00:52:54,633 --> 00:53:00,299
word and to imagine that it might be true.

592
00:53:00,300 --> 00:53:06,666
And ah you know the worst day turned out to be the best

593
00:53:06,667 --> 00:53:10,632
and the happiest and something that we never imagined even.

594
00:53:10,633 --> 00:53:14,766
I never thought I will be ever free.

595
00:53:14,767 --> 00:53:20,999
And ah actually that was the liberation, no, that was not the liberation.

596
00:53:21,000 --> 00:53:22,799
I mean they told us, we are free

597
00:53:22,800 --> 00:53:27,866
and then we were hundred and eighty Hungarians with hundred and eighty opinions

598
00:53:27,867 --> 00:53:32,766
where we were, what to do, where to go, just didn't know what to do.

599
00:53:32,767 --> 00:53:40,666
We were too tired and too worn out to think even.

600
00:53:40,667 --> 00:53:52,399
{Breathing} And then somehow some 30, 35 women where of one opinion with my mother and we started out,

601
00:53:52,400 --> 00:54:02,132
I don't know South, West at a certain direction and we heard soldiers from far

602
00:54:02,133 --> 00:54:05,899
and we get scared again, might be Germans, Russians.

603
00:54:05,900 --> 00:54:15,332
We had no idea, we found a stick, we, we bound some underwear on it, lifted it that it's, we are peaceful,

604
00:54:15,333 --> 00:54:21,699
was supposed to be white and at least the soldiers saw that

605
00:54:21,700 --> 00:54:25,666
we are peaceful and they sent me to talk to them

606
00:54:25,667 --> 00:54:35,899
because of my English knowledge and they told me they have never in their lifes seen so many ugly, dirty, bold,

607
00:54:35,900 --> 00:54:40,099
thin I don't know what else women in their lifes.

608
00:54:40,100 --> 00:54:45,666
So, we told them, if they were liberating a camp they would have seen much worse.

609
00:54:45,667 --> 00:54:47,632
As it was really true.

610
00:54:47,633 --> 00:54:48,932
IV: And those were the Americans?

611
00:54:48,933 --> 00:54:52,532
AG: And the.., those were the first Americans in my life I have seen.

612
00:54:52,533 --> 00:54:55,399
And I have met and I never found,

613
00:54:55,400 --> 00:55:02,099
who, never found them, those liberating veterans {breathing}.

614
00:55:02,100 --> 00:55:04,066
IV: You've been looking for them, later?

615
00:55:04,067 --> 00:55:06,999
AG: A lot, a lot, the Museum where I work also.

616
00:55:07,000 --> 00:55:11,799
IV: Yeah, so and then, what happened?

617
00:55:11,800 --> 00:55:18,099
So you are in a foreign country with nothing, ah with people you don't know,

618
00:55:18,100 --> 00:55:21,999
how would they react when you show up, so..

619
00:55:22,000 --> 00:55:26,899
AG: So they were the nicest people we have ever met.

620
00:55:26,900 --> 00:55:34,966
They took us to their headquarters, they let us rest of course, they will fed us,

621
00:55:34,967 --> 00:55:42,366
they brought doctors, nurses, whatever was necessary, we were in very bad state.

622
00:55:42,367 --> 00:55:48,066
They ah really looked after us, but it couldn't have been forever.

623
00:55:48,067 --> 00:55:50,966
They, the, they went shopping one day,

624
00:55:50,967 --> 00:55:55,732
they told everybody can ask for something.

625
00:55:55,733 --> 00:56:00,132
They will bring us whatever we were dreaming of the whole year.

626
00:56:00,133 --> 00:56:07,299
Some people asked for a piece of cake, someone asked for Schnitzel, someone asked for chocolate,

627
00:56:07,300 --> 00:56:14,966
someone asked for a jacket, because of the cold all the time and I asked for lipstick

628
00:56:14,967 --> 00:56:22,399
and they brought whatever we asked for they give it, was ah, they were a very nice few weeks,

629
00:56:22,400 --> 00:56:24,099
the way they looked after us.

630
00:56:24,100 --> 00:56:28,666
But they had to give us up, they had to got to, to the URO,

631
00:56:28,667 --> 00:56:34,199
United Restitutions Offices, they took us to Innsbruck

632
00:56:34,200 --> 00:56:38,466
and we stayed there for eight months, my, we couldn't decide what to do.

633
00:56:38,467 --> 00:56:41,299
I didn't want to go back to Hungary.

634
00:56:41,300 --> 00:56:51,099
When my mother wanted to go and see who stayed alive, so we went back eventually.

635
00:56:51,100 --> 00:56:55,999
IV: Let's have another short break, a little bit of water {breathing}.

636
00:56:56,000 --> 00:56:58,999
Or maybe Hungaria, you learned German there?

637
00:56:59,000 --> 00:56:59,999
AG: This is off record, right?

638
00:57:00,000 --> 00:57:03,666
IV: This is off, yeah, yeah.

639
00:57:03,667 --> 00:57:09,466
AG: I could tell this actually, ah I can't cope with the realitiy

640
00:57:09,467 --> 00:57:13,832
as it really was, so that's not exactly as it was.

641
00:57:13,833 --> 00:57:19,532
What I can't cope is the harder, harder parts of it.

642
00:57:19,533 --> 00:57:24,399
This can be told actually, I mean, not off record.

643
00:57:24,400 --> 00:57:25,099
IV: Yeah, yeah.

644
00:57:25,100 --> 00:57:27,099
AG: At the end I will tell it.

645
00:57:27,100 --> 00:57:29,766
So tell me when you start, when you..

646
00:57:29,767 --> 00:57:31,199
IV: Yeah.

647
00:57:31,200 --> 00:57:38,232
AG: Ok, so from, from Innsbruck ah we went back eventually to

648
00:57:38,233 --> 00:57:43,499
Hungary and my mother reopened the pension

649
00:57:43,500 --> 00:57:52,632
although it was ah in a bad condition that it was not un.., not furnished the, the way, we left it.

650
00:57:52,633 --> 00:57:56,866
So she went to the municipality and asked for help,

651
00:57:56,867 --> 00:58:04,732
they sent with her people and she went to the neighbours and asked back for her curtains,

652
00:58:04,733 --> 00:58:11,532
beds, carpets, whatever she found that they took {breathing}

653
00:58:11,533 --> 00:58:15,532
and she refurnished it and restarted it.

654
00:58:15,533 --> 00:58:22,999
And I went to school for one day, because the class mates told me, they did never thought,

655
00:58:23,000 --> 00:58:25,666
they never thought that they will see me again

656
00:58:25,667 --> 00:58:28,266
and the other one asked: "Why did you come back?"

657
00:58:28,267 --> 00:58:31,332
So the antisemitism wasn't done.

658
00:58:31,333 --> 00:58:39,466
Wait, so I went to the principal and told him: "I can't sit here, I can't study here."

659
00:58:39,467 --> 00:58:45,366
But I was studying here all my, all the years, before it was a protestant Gymnasium.

660
00:58:45,367 --> 00:58:48,266
Ah it was the best in the vicinity.

661
00:58:48,267 --> 00:58:53,766
So, he came to the conclusion that he will give me the material and I will study at home

662
00:58:53,767 --> 00:58:58,866
and come for the exams and I will finish my studies that way.

663
00:58:58,867 --> 00:59:04,499
So while I studied at home, I tought English and German to Hungarians

664
00:59:04,500 --> 00:59:08,066
who wanted to flee, many of them wanted to flee,

665
00:59:08,067 --> 00:59:12,766
so they took private lessons that I provided.

666
00:59:12,767 --> 00:59:21,799
And ah when the communism started to started in Hungary, I told my mother that I have to leave

667
00:59:21,800 --> 00:59:29,899
and she couldn't leave of course, but ah it was ah known, that if kids leave

668
00:59:29,900 --> 00:59:34,699
their parents come after them or if grown ups leave, their kids can come,

669
00:59:34,700 --> 00:59:37,566
there will be a lot to go, they will get the pass.

670
00:59:37,567 --> 00:59:46,166
And ah they were looking for soldiers 18, 19 years old, young Jewish people

671
00:59:46,167 --> 00:59:52,632
who were ready to go to Palestine and fight for Isra.., for become Israel.

672
00:59:52,633 --> 01:00:01,832
So, my mother did refuse to sign this petition actually and I ran af..,

673
01:00:01,833 --> 01:00:07,532
went after this ah person who brought the list and signed my mother's name

674
01:00:07,533 --> 01:00:12,666
and so my passport was sent to me in a couple of weeks

675
01:00:12,667 --> 01:00:15,299
and my sister and me where the last once to leave Hungary,

676
01:00:15,300 --> 01:00:23,999
I mean, last ones means, there were no more groups, only individual ah, ah passports,

677
01:00:24,000 --> 01:00:31,199
so we left and ah they didn't let us in to Palestine before the war ended,

678
01:00:31,200 --> 01:00:33,666
so we were in Marseille waiting

679
01:00:33,667 --> 01:00:37,632
and when we came to Israel it was already ok.

680
01:00:37,633 --> 01:00:43,832
No, it was a hard beginning, because of, I speak already three languages and I come to a place

681
01:00:43,833 --> 01:00:48,632
where they don't want any of these languages, they told me: "Please, talk Hebrew."

682
01:00:48,633 --> 01:00:51,832
So it wasn't that easy.

683
01:00:51,833 --> 01:00:55,866
And my mother got married immediately after we left

684
01:00:55,867 --> 01:00:59,666
and in '56 after the revolution they lef.., they sh..,

685
01:00:59,667 --> 01:01:05,366
she got her passport also and her husband's and they came to Israel to a Kibbutz,

686
01:01:05,367 --> 01:01:13,199
where my sister was and ah my mother was 97 years old when she died

687
01:01:13,200 --> 01:01:16,566
and my step dad was 79.

688
01:01:16,567 --> 01:01:23,166
And they had quite a nice life, nice, old age actually

689
01:01:23,167 --> 01:01:33,632
and my mother had 17 great-grandchildren and 13 grandchildren.

690
01:01:33,633 --> 01:01:40,766
And my sister is still in the Kibbutz also with,

691
01:01:40,767 --> 01:01:49,199
only one of the children is in the Kibbutz, the rest is ah around, somewhere else.

692
01:01:49,200 --> 01:01:54,899
IV: And when, why did you decide to leave Israel and go to the US?

693
01:01:54,900 --> 01:02:02,466
AG: My daughter left Israel ah went to, all my children were in the army,

694
01:02:02,467 --> 01:02:08,766
so they were after they served the arms, serving the army, also my son-in-law,

695
01:02:08,767 --> 01:02:17,499
they wanted to go to England for a while and for a while meant thirteen years

696
01:02:17,500 --> 01:02:23,966
and then they got a job offer in the States and they went to the States.

697
01:02:23,967 --> 01:02:30,199
And ten years ago, my daughter invited me to stay with them and to live with them,

698
01:02:30,200 --> 01:02:35,932
so I left Israel and came for the States ten years ago.

699
01:02:35,933 --> 01:02:42,832
And my son and her fams.., families stayed in Israel.

700
01:02:42,833 --> 01:02:51,799
Both children had a boy and a girl and the, I have four great-grandchildren,

701
01:02:51,800 --> 01:02:59,999
everyone of them has two and that's it.

702
01:03:00,000 --> 01:03:04,999
IV: So, ah, I don't have anymore questions, so you are released.

703
01:03:05,000 --> 01:03:07,499
But maybe is there anything you want to say?

704
01:03:07,500 --> 01:03:12,832
Sometim.., sometimes people they have a message or something, ah

705
01:03:12,833 --> 01:03:19,799
what they want to say to me, to us, to the people..

706
01:03:19,800 --> 01:03:26,966
AG: {Breathing} One message, one last message, a fact is that it's not exactly the way it happened,

707
01:03:26,967 --> 01:03:35,499
but because I am talking very much about it, I can't cope with more than I can tell,

708
01:03:35,500 --> 01:03:38,166
the more than what I told.

709
01:03:38,167 --> 01:03:48,499
Ah there were, ah, I, I had some hard times more than with my mother to tried to shield us,

710
01:03:48,500 --> 01:03:54,166
not at, not always she succeded, but there are things that I am really unable to talk about.

711
01:03:54,167 --> 01:04:01,199
I came to the conclusion that, if I don't have to, I can keep on doing what I am doing.

712
01:04:01,200 --> 01:04:08,599
What I am doing is, ah, volunteering in the Holocaust Museum in Washington,

713
01:04:08,600 --> 01:04:14,466
translating and speaking to schools,

714
01:04:14,467 --> 01:04:21,366
to colleges, to Universities, not only in Washington, they send me to different states

715
01:04:21,367 --> 01:04:27,699
and I couldn't cope with more than what I am telling.

716
01:04:27,700 --> 01:04:38,499
The other thing is, if they ask me, if it is a school, what do I leave with the kids is

717
01:04:38,500 --> 01:04:49,966
first of all the discipline to listen and listen and then do whatever the teachers or parents think they have to do

718
01:04:49,967 --> 01:04:54,799
and languages, not to stay with one language.

719
01:04:54,800 --> 01:05:05,832
To keep on learning languages and ah that I hope that I'll be able to continue doing what I do.

720
01:05:05,833 --> 01:05:11,732
They have also a writing workshop in the Museum to make us write,

721
01:05:11,733 --> 01:05:22,399
not our story, not from the first day till the last, to write episodes about some parts of what happened.

722
01:05:22,400 --> 01:05:31,999
So I do this also very often and four stories were published already through the Museum.

723
01:05:32,000 --> 01:05:40,266
And I find this gathering of remembrance what is going on in Flossenbürg

724
01:05:40,267 --> 01:05:47,699
that I never dreamt of, never knew that, never thought that it's possible to do I find it beautiful thing,

725
01:05:47,700 --> 01:05:52,932
to have all these people here and make them feel so good and important

726
01:05:52,933 --> 01:06:03,999
and give back our self-respect and, and everything about it.

727
01:06:04,000 --> 01:06:06,666
IV: Thank you for doing this work.

728
01:06:06,667 --> 01:06:09,666
AG: Thank you for inviting me {laughing}.

729
01:06:09,667 --> 01:06:15,367
IV: Ok. Camera out.