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IV: Heute ist Samstag, der 19. Juli 2014.

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Wir sind in Weiden im Hotel Admira.

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Mein Name ist Michael Aue von der Medienwerkstatt Franken.

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Und ich führe jetzt ein Interview mit Herrn Henry Greenbaum, der in den USA lebt.

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Er wurde am 1. April 1928 in Polen geboren.

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Und zwar in dem Ort Starachowice.

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Und äh, kam unter anderem, nach einem Auftenthalt in Auschwitz, auch nach Flossenbürg.

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Und wurde auf dem Todesmarsch befreit.

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IV:  Well, so let's start ah a little bit ah just ah biographical.

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Where're you born?

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Ah, little bit about your family.

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So d.., just to know, where you are and where the story..

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HG: Okay.

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IV: ..started.

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HG: So you want me to talk?

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IV: Yeah, I want you to, to tell a little bit about your..

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HG: I thought you gonna just ask me questions {laughing}, okay.

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IV:  Ah, yeah, so, just a.., my questions are there ah t.., to make you..

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HG: Okay.

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IV: ..talk {laughing}.

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HG: I c.., I come from a family of nine children.

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We had six girls and three boys.

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We were ah, I come from Poland.

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Ah and I was born April 1st 1928.

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I was the youngest of the nine children.

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And of course we had a normal upbringing.

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I went to public school.

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I went to Hebrew school.

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And play games with other children.

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Like a normal life.

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But of course, when the German army took over then it was a little bit different.

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They right away, it didn't take them too long.

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I don't know how long it was.

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We wound up in a ghetto in the old city, in Starochowice.

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We stayed in there for two years.

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From '40 to October '42 we stayed in the ghetto {clicking his tongue}.

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And then they decided to have a selection.

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They took, the selection was to take away the old, very young, handicapped, pregnant women, women with children.

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And ah all they left, able were the people for work.

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We, my family, we also had family's store in my town.

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We had IDs that we worked in the factories.

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I was not quite twelve years old.

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But I already worked in the ammunition factory.

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For the ah, for the Polish, ah, when they ordered.

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And when the German army came in, of course we had IDs so we were saved.

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And then they took those people away when they had the selection.

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They took them to Treblinka.

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Nothing but a killing center.

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My mum went there.

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My two married sisters went there with three ah little nieces and two nephews.

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They all were there, but I never could find them after the war.

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We were asking, looking for them. And they told us not to look for them, the, that they lost their lifes in Treblinka.

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IV: Treblinka {whispering}. One? So just, yeah, come in, come in.

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And the people who were able to work?

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HG: Okay, we stayed there and I was left with three single sisters.

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And we all had IDs that we work in the ammunition factory.

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In fact, the older one of the girls wound up in a tailor's shop.

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She ah because that was our business in...

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We had a tailor d..shop.

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So the girls knew how to sew.

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This one volunteered to be a tailor after and, after work in the ammunition factory.

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But the others, we worked, we came to work three shifts a day.

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Seven to three, from three to eleven, from eleven to seven in the morning.

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Every week changed the three shifts.

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And we were in this ghetto.

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And the ghetto, the only good thing in the ghetto is, the family was together, intact.

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But when they had the selection, of course, they broke up the family.

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My father died two months before the war.

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IV: Mhm {confirming}. And, so you stood in the ghetto at, but the..

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CM: Moment.

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IV: Yeah. Outside of the ghetto.

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HG: The work?

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IV: The, yeah, the work.

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HG: Ah, was outside the ghetto, right, it was a factory.

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Not to far away distant from the ghetto.

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We were able to walk every day.

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And the order was, that to come out of the ghetto, is the ones to show the guards the ID.

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And we were lining up for work.

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And all of us marched out at the same time.

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We came back at the same time.

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And we stayed there like I said till October '42.

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And then when they had the selection, after the selection they didn't return us to the ghetto.

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They built for us a slave labor camp.

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On the top of a stone quarry.

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With six foot fence wires, not electric just barbed wire.

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And the guards, and the dogs, and the tower.

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And they had floodlight.

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And we continued for another year to stay there.

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And we worked there.

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Then from the being, from the dirt, from the filth, we never changed our cloth.

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We never got washed.

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We became lice infested.

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And lice breed typhoid sickness.

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And that broke out while we were there in the slave labor camp.

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A very contagious sickness.

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And we were staying in such close quarters, like three guys slept on one bunk.

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Then maybe seventy-five inches wide.

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So, if one caught it, the next will definitely gonna catch it.

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But the only thing is if someone was, had high fever.

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That high, they could, you could do nothing.

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You couldn't even stand on your feet.

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Middle fewer, low fewer, you can go to work.

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You're slow a little bit, but you can go to work.

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But if you didn't line up for work, they went to look for the rest of them.

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Because every morning we lined up in the front of the barrack to send us off to work.

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If the night shift come back, they wouldn't let them in yet.

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Until they send the day shift out.

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So, if somebody was missing, they went inside the barrack to look for them.

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And if they found them, there was a pick-up truck.

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I think it was the Einsatzgruppen.

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I'm not sure.

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But it was a special unit who came by with a little truck.

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And they put the sick people and they took them away to the outskirt sort of town.

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They killed them there.

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And they all had one grave.

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And we dug those trenches for them, for the army, for the German army.

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And they told us that that was for the military, for the tanks to fall in.

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Whether theyy were six feet by four feet..

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I don't remember how deep we were digging.

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And they used those trenches for the people with typhoid.

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They shot them into the ditch, naked first.

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I didn't see it.

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I was not there.

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But I was told that ah people who investigated from the farmers around with, who were there.

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Because the farmers took the cloth.

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IV: Yeah.

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HG: And they shot them naked and throw, they went into the ditch.

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I lost a sister who died of typhoid.

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And then the old middle sister, they took her, she didn't line up for work.

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And we didn't know where they take those people.

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We thought they're taken for hospital.

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Or they take them to another, a ki.. o.. another camp or another ghetto.

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We didn't know what they were doing.

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Until after the war we found out.

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So at the end, I was left.

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One sister was, ah died of typhoid.

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And one the, I think it was the Einsatzgruppe that came to pick them up.

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Any barrack to barrack, it was ah, the truck was full.

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They would take them to the outskirts of the town.

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And they would shoot them there.

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And I lost two, so I had one more.

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So we heard rumors from the tailor shop.

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The high ranking officer came into the tailor shop and told those tailors to hurry up with those uniforms,

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"because such-and-such date all of you gonna be deported out of here."

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And it was already almost '44, 1944.

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IV: Yeah.

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HG: So these tailors didn't know what it meant, that we are gonna be deported.

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They thought, "they are gonna probably kill us and now they don't need us anymore."

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Although we helped them for three years with the war machinery.

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Whether it was a tailor or ammunition, what ever.

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And then, and then they decided that they came.

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And ah not everyone knew about the escape, just a few.

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Most of all the tailors.

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And then who their relatives were or friends.

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And they organized a certain group.

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And the day my sister that I had left over the one she had..

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A middle fewer, but she can go to work everyday.

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She told me the night before, when I come back from my shift, from the factory:

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"Do not go into the barrack.

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Wait for me outside."

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So I obeyed that order.

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And she came by to follow.. I had my shift from three to eleven.

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So I, I never went into the barrack.

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I stayed for her outside.

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And it was pitch-dark.

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She came by with a Jewish policeman.

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Whether she befriended him, I don't know the answer.

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She held us hands, her hand.

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And she grabbed my hand, all through we were running.

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And there was a, a barbed wire fence first.

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And the second fence was a wooden fence.

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When we came to the wooden fence to break it out, it made a little more noise than the clippers cut the wires.

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And the guards and the shepherd, shepherd dogs.

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Very alert, very alert dogs, they were growling and barking.

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So, the guard flipped the lights on, to see what was wrong.

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And they saw people were running out.

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And he just tried to kill as many as he could.

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Some wounded.

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And I was not, and I was about maybe ten feet away with the policeman and my sister.

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And once he put the lights on, he started shooting at us, too.

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We, and then that, the bullet grazed me on the back of my head.

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And knocked me out.

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When I awoke a few seconds later,

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I was yelling for my sister Faiga and I could not find her.

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And I never would run towards the hole, where they cut the hole out.

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So I decided to stay an.., and look for her.

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And I could not find her.

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But the women's barrack was in the opposite direction.

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Where the hole was cut through.

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So I decided to run for that.

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I lowered my head, bleeding furiously.

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And I ran there, and I came into the women's barrack.

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And the woman didn't let me in.

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It was a Jewish woman.

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From my town, she knew me and I knew her.

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She would not let me in.

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I said: "I wanna see my sister Fagia."

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"She is not here.

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Get out of here.

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You gonna get us all killed."

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I said: "How am I gonna get you killed?

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I have no weapons, how am I gonna kill you?"

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Anyway, we were fighting back and forth.

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I decided to sit in the doorway.

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And she could not close the door.

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And the guards upstairs on the tower were very angry that people were running out.

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And then, at one point they stopped running.

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And when they saw what's happening, the lights were up already.

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So they started shooting into the barracks.

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And they came in, a few bullets came into the barrack.

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And the women jumped off the bu.., the ah the bunks.

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And on the floor they went.

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Then I had eye contact with everyone of them, looking for my sister.

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I didn't believe the woman, told me my sister was not here.

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So I sits here and I ran into my first cousin Aida.

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They, her mum and my mum were sisters.

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She says: "What happened to you?"

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And I say: "I am looking for my sister Fagia."

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She says: "Your sister is not here.

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She is not here.

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I know what bunk she was on.

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She is not here.

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But what happened to you?"

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So I told her, I was injured, but I can't find my sister.

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So she said: "Let me help you with the bleeding."

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And then they stopped shooting anymore.

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So the woman, my cousin had a bucket of water, and, for everybody.

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And we were drinking that water every day in the barracks.

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So she wetted a rag, cleaned me up a little bit.

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And she took a dry rag and put it over the wound.

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She says: "I give you my beret.

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And you wear my beret."

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So the cloth would stay underneath.

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And ah, we had a lot of hair.

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They wouldn't cut our hair.

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And in the ghetto or the slave labor camp in the old town.

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So the women had their long hair.

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And the men had long hair.

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So that's why this lice infestation started.

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Mostly in the hair.

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And so then she just cleaned me up.

242
00:13:30,267 --> 00:13:33,266
And then, I still have to, I don't stay in there.

243
00:13:33,267 --> 00:13:35,732
What if the guards would catch me in there.

244
00:13:35,733 --> 00:13:37,832
They probably would have killed me.

245
00:13:37,833 --> 00:13:43,999
So I decided to sneak out of the women's barrack and I was watching the floodlights.

246
00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:46,666
It was all, it already got dark already.

247
00:13:46,667 --> 00:13:51,066
And the floodlight was going from the hall away and then back.

248
00:13:51,067 --> 00:13:52,832
Comes and goes, back and forth.

249
00:13:52,833 --> 00:13:56,166
And I figured out, I was fifteen years old that time already.

250
00:13:56,167 --> 00:14:00,332
And I said: "I can beat that ah the floodlight."

251
00:14:00,333 --> 00:14:03,899
Until for, starting of, running for this direction.

252
00:14:03,900 --> 00:14:06,166
And I lowered my head and I jumped.

253
00:14:06,167 --> 00:14:09,499
And I ran into my barrack where I belong with the men.

254
00:14:09,500 --> 00:14:13,299
And a few minutes later, the loudspeaker came on.

255
00:14:13,300 --> 00:14:15,632
All, everybody had to go "aus, raus."

256
00:14:15,633 --> 00:14:18,966
And we had to stay in the front of the barrack.

257
00:14:18,967 --> 00:14:21,666
The night shift just came back.

258
00:14:21,667 --> 00:14:23,099
They wouldn't let them in.

259
00:14:23,100 --> 00:14:27,832
They held them between these two sets of fences.

260
00:14:27,833 --> 00:14:31,999
And they started counting each of one in front of each barrack.

261
00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:35,466
Just to get some idea how many people escaped.

262
00:14:35,467 --> 00:14:36,999
So they were counting.

263
00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:38,232
And then there were missings.

264
00:14:38,233 --> 00:14:43,332
So that they would look inside for them, inside the barrack, they were not there.

265
00:14:43,333 --> 00:14:49,632
So that means either they're injured and lie at the hole over there or they escaped.

266
00:14:49,633 --> 00:14:53,599
And then after they get through counting of one of u.. ah each of us,

267
00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:56,566
we had to face the area where the hole was.

268
00:14:56,567 --> 00:14:58,299
And there he took his gun out.

269
00:14:58,300 --> 00:15:01,332
And he killed all the wounded people.

270
00:15:01,333 --> 00:15:02,499
(???)

271
00:15:02,500 --> 00:15:03,866
That were not killed.

272
00:15:03,867 --> 00:15:05,666
The policeman was one of them.

273
00:15:05,667 --> 00:15:08,666
He was sitting in an upright position on the ground.

274
00:15:08,667 --> 00:15:10,499
A white band he had.

275
00:15:10,500 --> 00:15:11,899
He wore his cap.

276
00:15:11,900 --> 00:15:15,599
The special police cap he had, mourning and groaning.

277
00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:19,166
He was hit by a bullet, I don't know where of course.

278
00:15:19,167 --> 00:15:22,832
And then others, he killed all of the wounded ones.

279
00:15:22,833 --> 00:15:26,666
The ones that were alive, breathing or yelling for help.

280
00:15:26,667 --> 00:15:28,332
They just shot all of them.

281
00:15:28,333 --> 00:15:30,499
And then he turned around to us.

282
00:15:30,500 --> 00:15:35,499
And he said: "That's what will happen to you, should you ever try to escape again."

283
00:15:35,500 --> 00:15:37,766
And we went back inside.

284
00:15:37,767 --> 00:15:40,832
And back to normal for a few, two, three months.

285
00:15:40,833 --> 00:15:46,999
And then, they decided that they, of sele..of, the deportation came.

286
00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:48,699
And we were all deported.

287
00:15:48,700 --> 00:15:51,966
They wouldn't let us go to work that twenty-four hour period.

288
00:15:51,967 --> 00:15:54,932
Everybody was in this slave labor camp.

289
00:15:54,933 --> 00:15:56,999
And they struck us on those trains.

290
00:15:57,000 --> 00:15:59,299
And they to.., they took us away.

291
00:15:59,300 --> 00:16:03,932
With no water, no bathroom for three, four days we traveled.

292
00:16:03,933 --> 00:16:09,999
At the end of the travelling, we wound up in Auschwitz-Birkenau.

293
00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:11,599
And the trains open up.

294
00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:12,999
The doors opened up.

295
00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:21,499
And the well dressed, the uniform guys, ah German army was standing there with their dog and they were directing traffic.

296
00:16:21,500 --> 00:16:24,166
Like ah, what the reason there was, I don't know.

297
00:16:24,167 --> 00:16:25,732
They had a selection again.

298
00:16:25,733 --> 00:16:28,332
Left, right, left, right.

299
00:16:28,333 --> 00:16:30,332
They sent me on the good side.

300
00:16:30,333 --> 00:16:33,599
And we, we didn't know what the other bad side is.

301
00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:35,299
Until a few days later.

302
00:16:35,300 --> 00:16:41,966
We were told by other inmates that that part of the group was gased the day they came.

303
00:16:41,967 --> 00:16:44,999
They either didn't have enough room for everyone.

304
00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:48,666
Or they had an order how many they need to dispose of.

305
00:16:48,667 --> 00:16:49,932
We were lucky.

306
00:16:49,933 --> 00:16:52,599
My, my group that was saved were lucky.

307
00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:55,499
The first thing we got is a number on our arm.

308
00:16:55,500 --> 00:16:57,099
The first thing.

309
00:16:57,100 --> 00:16:59,666
If I can open this up here.

310
00:16:59,667 --> 00:17:01,666
And I am glad to show you

311
00:17:01,667 --> 00:17:06,332
There is a number here: A, eighteen, nine, nine, one.

312
00:17:06,333 --> 00:17:08,166
That was my number.

313
00:17:08,167 --> 00:17:13,766
And by the way, I met a gentleman last night at the, at the Flossenbürg reunion there.

314
00:17:13,767 --> 00:17:15,599
He had his number here.

315
00:17:15,600 --> 00:17:19,332
And I think his number was pretty much close with mine.

316
00:17:19,333 --> 00:17:24,499
So we were there at the same, almost at the same time.

317
00:17:24,500 --> 00:17:25,999
So, we wound up here.

318
00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:30,132
We stayed only about a few months in Auschwitz-Birkenau.

319
00:17:30,133 --> 00:17:34,832
And a well... German man came in, a civilian.

320
00:17:34,833 --> 00:17:35,999
Well-dressed man.

321
00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:38,632
Well I, I admired his clothes.

322
00:17:38,633 --> 00:17:40,832
He had a, a straw hat.

323
00:17:40,833 --> 00:17:46,266
He had a three piece outfit, with a vest, a, a gold watch with a chain.

324
00:17:46,267 --> 00:17:47,866
That's how I observed that guy.

325
00:17:47,867 --> 00:17:49,432
That guy is still on my mind.

326
00:17:49,433 --> 00:17:51,666
Because he sort of saved my life.

327
00:17:51,667 --> 00:17:53,499
It was, we didn't know that.

328
00:17:53,500 --> 00:17:54,999
He ordered that barrack..

329
00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:57,232
He had two guards with him and a dog.

330
00:17:57,233 --> 00:17:58,532
And they, the guards went in.

331
00:17:58,533 --> 00:18:00,799
They chased everybody out of the barrack.

332
00:18:00,800 --> 00:18:04,266
And that civilian German picked who ever he want.

333
00:18:04,267 --> 00:18:06,499
But we didn't know what he is picking us for.

334
00:18:06,500 --> 00:18:10,532
He took, I don't know, approximately I would say fifty of us.

335
00:18:10,533 --> 00:18:15,332
And he marched us out of ah Birkenau-Auschwitz.

336
00:18:15,333 --> 00:18:18,999
Either by truck or by foot, I don't remember it positively.

337
00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:23,799
And he put us near Buna-Monowitz a subcamp of Auschwitz.

338
00:18:23,800 --> 00:18:31,066
And that man was either an owner or manager of the IG Farben Company.

339
00:18:31,067 --> 00:18:34,666
And the job that he would've done in the IG

340
00:18:34,667 --> 00:18:39,399
is to build the road or a part of a road

341
00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:41,566
with cobbled stones and sidewalks.

342
00:18:41,567 --> 00:18:45,266
And this, that was already in 1945 of course.

343
00:18:45,267 --> 00:18:49,766
And the war was already starting to sort of ease up a little bit.

344
00:18:49,767 --> 00:18:54,899
And then we used to, then the United States bombed IG at that time.

345
00:18:54,900 --> 00:18:59,232
They sent us over to some other place and bombed the IG factory.

346
00:18:59,233 --> 00:19:04,666
The rail mostly in the beginning, that led into the IG.

347
00:19:04,667 --> 00:19:09,666
And then of course at the end they knocked out the whole factory.

348
00:19:09,667 --> 00:19:12,666
So they put us on trains again.

349
00:19:12,667 --> 00:19:16,832
And we rode to, deeper into Germany.

350
00:19:16,833 --> 00:19:20,666
We went to Austria, we went to Czechoslovakia.

351
00:19:20,667 --> 00:19:28,332
And then the, ah the ah, the ah airforce got very aggressive.

352
00:19:28,333 --> 00:19:30,266
And they knocked out the whole rail.

353
00:19:30,267 --> 00:19:33,166
In some places they knocked out the lokomotive.

354
00:19:33,167 --> 00:19:36,932
And then at the end was, they divided us in different groups.

355
00:19:36,933 --> 00:19:38,666
I don't know how many in the march.

356
00:19:38,667 --> 00:19:41,666
About two hundred, a hundred I don't remember that.

357
00:19:41,667 --> 00:19:45,066
All I know we had two guards and two dogs.

358
00:19:45,067 --> 00:19:47,666
Regarding (???) we started marching.

359
00:19:47,667 --> 00:19:54,832
I think, I am not sur.., positive, but I'm, I will be investigating most of today in Flossenbürg.

360
00:19:54,833 --> 00:19:57,099
That is my first time back.

361
00:19:57,100 --> 00:20:03,732
So, the oth.., these gentlemen I have talked to, thought that was not the day that we arrived here.

362
00:20:03,733 --> 00:20:06,099
It was, we were doing the work

363
00:20:06,100 --> 00:20:11,832
We finally had to march in for a couple of miles to the camp.

364
00:20:11,833 --> 00:20:15,499
Because of the rail system, the trains didn't go and that's how far they went.

365
00:20:15,500 --> 00:20:18,332
And they knocked them out too, the lokomotive.

366
00:20:18,333 --> 00:20:21,166
So we wound up in Flossenbürg.

367
00:20:21,167 --> 00:20:28,099
And there, in Flossenbürg, which for me was just another camp, same bunks, the same food.

368
00:20:28,100 --> 00:20:31,832
The only thing, that we didn't have to go to a factory to work.

369
00:20:31,833 --> 00:20:34,866
I thought, this man would disagree with me.

370
00:20:34,867 --> 00:20:35,832
He said something else.

371
00:20:35,833 --> 00:20:43,332
He said, he stayed in ah, in, like in a, in a office or, or a factory of some kind.

372
00:20:43,333 --> 00:20:46,899
I remember only bundling up clothing.

373
00:20:46,900 --> 00:20:53,166
It was a story high of cloth from people who were wearing, who were murdered.

374
00:20:53,167 --> 00:20:56,999
And I don't know whether that was people only from Flossenbürg.

375
00:20:57,000 --> 00:21:00,799
Or was, was that the depot where they brought all the clothing in there?

376
00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:02,166
That I am not sure.

377
00:21:02,167 --> 00:21:04,766
But we were separating clothing.

378
00:21:04,767 --> 00:21:09,599
Bundling up coats, shoes, pants bundling up.

379
00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:14,499
And then they, I guess they shipped them back to Germany for recycling I guess.

380
00:21:14,500 --> 00:21:18,966
And I was in Flossenbürg maybe another six months or so.

381
00:21:18,967 --> 00:21:23,166
And then, the American army, we thought that was the Russian army,

382
00:21:23,167 --> 00:21:29,666
because, being close to the Czech border we wouldn't think that Americans would come there.

383
00:21:29,667 --> 00:21:33,999
But the American army was coming to liberate Flossenbürg.

384
00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:38,332
And three days before that, that the ah, the ah,

385
00:21:38,333 --> 00:21:44,332
German army or the Nazis or the, or the soldiers, they put us on trains again.

386
00:21:44,333 --> 00:21:46,999
They took us in, deeper into Germany.

387
00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:50,932
So, we were never got off the train, except in one spot,

388
00:21:50,933 --> 00:21:54,466
we went to Austria, Czechoslovakia, Bavaria, Germany.

389
00:21:54,467 --> 00:21:55,799
Just riding around

390
00:21:55,800 --> 00:21:57,466
Some of them had open trains.

391
00:21:57,467 --> 00:22:00,999
Mostly the women had open trains in those days already.

392
00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:02,866
You know, half open.

393
00:22:02,867 --> 00:22:11,166
And then we travelled through, then the ah, the ah Russian, the American airforce got very aggressive again.

394
00:22:11,167 --> 00:22:13,666
And they knocked out eventually the whole system.

395
00:22:13,667 --> 00:22:16,499
So they started to march us.

396
00:22:16,500 --> 00:22:19,899
How many of us was in the march, I don't really recall.

397
00:22:19,900 --> 00:22:26,166
But I know we were marching from middle of February to the 25th of April.

398
00:22:26,167 --> 00:22:27,999
Just marching, marching, marching.

399
00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:29,499
IV: Every day?

400
00:22:29,500 --> 00:22:30,266
HG: Then, ev.., the guards..

401
00:22:30,267 --> 00:22:31,999
IV: At night time or day time?

402
00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:34,532
HG: Mostly day time. Never marched us at night.

403
00:22:34,533 --> 00:22:35,199
IV: Yeah.

404
00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:37,366
HG: At night we stayed in the woods, covered up.

405
00:22:37,367 --> 00:22:41,299
Stayed there and the dogs were guarding us with the guards.

406
00:22:41,300 --> 00:22:47,332
And then, at the ah 24th of April, the day before liberation,

407
00:22:47,333 --> 00:22:51,432
before that, the guards didn't have any supplies with them either.

408
00:22:51,433 --> 00:22:52,899
They were hungry too.

409
00:22:52,900 --> 00:22:55,899
But they located a farm, while we were marching.

410
00:22:55,900 --> 00:22:59,632
And they used to go to the farm and have themselves a good meal.

411
00:22:59,633 --> 00:23:01,999
And the dogs I'm sure ate good {laughing}.

412
00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:05,832
And we were allowed only one raw potato.

413
00:23:05,833 --> 00:23:10,699
For the farmer, they gave us one raw potato and some water to drink.

414
00:23:10,700 --> 00:23:13,199
And we didn't have water f.., for months.

415
00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:15,299
It was two months at least.

416
00:23:15,300 --> 00:23:18,299
We were drinking water out of the creek.

417
00:23:18,300 --> 00:23:21,499
With anyway, it was 24th they brought us into a farm.

418
00:23:21,500 --> 00:23:23,999
It was the day before liberation.

419
00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:28,599
And all of a sudden they put us into this silo, where they keep the hay.

420
00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:30,832
And some animals were right there.

421
00:23:30,833 --> 00:23:37,066
And we thought that once they put us in there, they'll make, ah light a match and burn us all up.

422
00:23:37,067 --> 00:23:37,999
But they didn't.

423
00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:39,166
The dogs were outside.

424
00:23:39,167 --> 00:23:41,599
Two dogs were outside laying on the ground.

425
00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:44,832
Watching us, watching us being on the inside.

426
00:23:44,833 --> 00:23:49,532
But we were that time drenched wet from the April showers.

427
00:23:49,533 --> 00:23:52,332
We came in and we took our uniforms off.

428
00:23:52,333 --> 00:23:53,699
Striped uniforms.

429
00:23:53,700 --> 00:23:58,332
Because before we wore regular clothes for three years from home yet.

430
00:23:58,333 --> 00:24:03,399
Never clean, never, that's why the lice in the hair, we got infested there.

431
00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:08,099
But they, that was, we didn't get cleaned up until we got to Auschwitz.

432
00:24:08,100 --> 00:24:10,432
Where we got the number, we finally got our hair cut.

433
00:24:10,433 --> 00:24:11,999
We finally got a shower.

434
00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:14,732
When I arrived at ah Birkenau.

435
00:24:14,733 --> 00:24:22,399
But anyway that day, that day the 24th of April, we were in that place where the hay is, the silo.

436
00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:25,199
And in the morning, they woke us up early in the morning.

437
00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:26,832
We put back our clothes on.

438
00:24:26,833 --> 00:24:28,532
They were not quite dry.

439
00:24:28,533 --> 00:24:31,266
But, they were okay, they were not too bad.

440
00:24:31,267 --> 00:24:33,066
We didn't have any underwear or socks.

441
00:24:33,067 --> 00:24:36,832
All we had is the, the cap, the jacket, pants.

442
00:24:36,833 --> 00:24:42,499
Wooden-bottomed shoes with canvas stubs on them, to tie up.

443
00:24:42,500 --> 00:24:44,332
And that was our uniform.

444
00:24:44,333 --> 00:24:48,166
And then they always..., they woke us up early in the morning.

445
00:24:48,167 --> 00:24:51,732
And we only marched for two hours, near a wooded area.

446
00:24:51,733 --> 00:24:56,632
And it was pretty much close to Neunburg vorm Wald.

447
00:24:56,633 --> 00:24:58,499
In the woods in the area.

448
00:24:58,500 --> 00:25:03,999
And all of a sudden, while we saw a lot of commotion on a highway, a lot of equipment.

449
00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:06,599
But we didn't know whom the equipment was.

450
00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:08,166
Who did it belong to?

451
00:25:08,167 --> 00:25:11,299
Because we didn't know the marking on the equipment.

452
00:25:11,300 --> 00:25:12,666
So we thought it was German army.

453
00:25:12,667 --> 00:25:14,166
We didn't know who it was.

454
00:25:14,167 --> 00:25:20,166
But all of a sudden the two guards, while we were resting, all of a sudden disappeared.

455
00:25:20,167 --> 00:25:21,999
They took off with their dog.

456
00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:24,566
And they left us by ourselves.

457
00:25:24,567 --> 00:25:28,866
And after that we were kind of hu.., angry, because they left us.

458
00:25:28,867 --> 00:25:30,499
Anybody can kill us now.

459
00:25:30,500 --> 00:25:33,866
Although they would, probably were closest to kill us.

460
00:25:33,867 --> 00:25:36,599
But they were afraid to fire a gun.

461
00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:38,632
Because it makes a lot of noise.

462
00:25:38,633 --> 00:25:40,666
And those two guards didn't wanna get caught.

463
00:25:40,667 --> 00:25:41,832
I'm just guessing.

464
00:25:41,833 --> 00:25:45,832
These two guards didn't wanna get caught by the American army.

465
00:25:45,833 --> 00:25:48,399
So, they ran away from us.

466
00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:50,066
Probably got into a farm.

467
00:25:50,067 --> 00:25:51,466
Took their uniform off.

468
00:25:51,467 --> 00:25:53,299
Put civilian clothes on.

469
00:25:53,300 --> 00:25:55,599
They're just another person.

470
00:25:55,600 --> 00:26:01,599
And then, all of a sudden, while we sat there, a tank appeared from the main highway towards us.

471
00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:03,999
F.., by five, ten feet away.

472
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:05,366
The hatch opened up.

473
00:26:05,367 --> 00:26:11,332
And this beautiful American soldier came out of the hatch, put his hands on his mouth.

474
00:26:11,333 --> 00:26:16,599
And he says: "We are Americans and all of you are free."

475
00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:18,166
IV: Did you understand english?

476
00:26:18,167 --> 00:26:21,999
HG: We had somebody in that group that spoke english.

477
00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:24,832
But we knew what "free" meant.

478
00:26:24,833 --> 00:26:29,999
And "we are Americans", "American" is almost an international word. "American."

479
00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:32,532
And I had a sister living in America.

480
00:26:32,533 --> 00:26:34,899
She came here before the war.

481
00:26:34,900 --> 00:26:39,466
Because I only gave you ah the description of five sisters.

482
00:26:39,467 --> 00:26:43,499
The one that went to America in 1937.

483
00:26:43,500 --> 00:26:46,032
So I knew, I had somebody still alive.

484
00:26:46,033 --> 00:26:49,499
And some day, with God's help, I will be in America.

485
00:26:49,500 --> 00:26:50,132
And once

486
00:26:50,133 --> 00:26:53,999
the soldier told us that, "We are Americans and you are free."

487
00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:57,166
I said to, to my, to my, to God I said: "Dear God.

488
00:26:57,167 --> 00:27:00,166
Thanks f.., thanks for saving our lives.

489
00:27:00,167 --> 00:27:02,332
But why did it take you so long?"

490
00:27:02,333 --> 00:27:04,666
Five years it took.

491
00:27:04,667 --> 00:27:06,366
I was locked up for five years.

492
00:27:06,367 --> 00:27:09,266
At the age of seventeen I was liberated.

493
00:27:09,267 --> 00:27:13,332
They tell me I weigh like seventy-five kilos or seventy-five pounds.

494
00:27:13,333 --> 00:27:16,666
I don't remember that, but I was told that.

495
00:27:16,667 --> 00:27:22,499
IV: So, what about your physical and also yo.., your mental condition after these five years?

496
00:27:22,500 --> 00:27:23,099
HG: Well, the..

497
00:27:23,100 --> 00:27:24,233
IV: About, during the time?

498
00:27:24,667 --> 00:27:27,766
HG: Well, maybe it helped because I was younger.

499
00:27:27,767 --> 00:27:32,332
And maybe it helped that I knew I had some good life ahead of me yet.

500
00:27:32,333 --> 00:27:35,566
Once I came to ah, once I come to America.

501
00:27:35,567 --> 00:27:37,832
I was looking forward to that.

502
00:27:37,833 --> 00:27:44,866
But while I was in Germany, I ran into, after liberation, and after we had enough food in our system,

503
00:27:44,867 --> 00:27:51,399
we started travelling on trains.

504
00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:51,666
And I took a ride to Bergen-Belsen.

505
00:27:51,667 --> 00:27:58,832
Looking for my m.., married sisters, the one they took away in October '42.

506
00:27:58,833 --> 00:28:00,999
I said, maybe they killed my mum,

507
00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:02,832
she was only fifty-four.

508
00:28:02,833 --> 00:28:04,832
But my sisters were young women.

509
00:28:04,833 --> 00:28:08,599
They had, one had three k.., ah girls, one, two boys.

510
00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:10,132
And I said: "Maybe they killed the cildren?

511
00:28:10,133 --> 00:28:11,666
Maybe the women are alive?"

512
00:28:11,667 --> 00:28:15,299
So I took, ah, a ride to Bergen-Belsen.

513
00:28:15,300 --> 00:28:17,099
And that was the British zone.

514
00:28:17,100 --> 00:28:20,666
They liberated ah Bergen-Belsen.

515
00:28:20,667 --> 00:28:21,399
I went in there.

516
00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:23,732
The soldier told me: "Only three days."

517
00:28:23,733 --> 00:28:27,899
And I told him, "I only need one day, only to look, to see."

518
00:28:27,900 --> 00:28:29,599
And I couldn't find anybody.

519
00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:34,599
Somehow I found this one woman, we were walking and she recognized me.

520
00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:35,932
And I recognized her.

521
00:28:35,933 --> 00:28:39,666
And it was that same cousin who helped me with the wound.

522
00:28:39,667 --> 00:28:44,832
And they, and they ah, in my slave labor camp in Poland.

523
00:28:44,833 --> 00:28:47,332
And she says: "I am going to Poland.

524
00:28:47,333 --> 00:28:49,099
Do you wanna go with me?"

525
00:28:49,100 --> 00:28:51,566
And we had a brother with the Polish Army.

526
00:28:51,567 --> 00:28:53,732
I had one in the Polish Army.

527
00:28:53,733 --> 00:28:56,466
But f.., I didn't know where he was of course.

528
00:28:56,467 --> 00:28:57,832
And she took a ride.

529
00:28:57,833 --> 00:28:59,799
And she went to Łódź, Poland.

530
00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:02,132
It was a Displaced Persons camp.

531
00:29:02,133 --> 00:29:04,666
And she looked for her brother Ramon.

532
00:29:04,667 --> 00:29:09,166
And he knew of my brother, Isakery, who was in the Polish army.

533
00:29:09,167 --> 00:29:13,832
He got caught by the German ah, Gestapo or SS, whoever it was.

534
00:29:13,833 --> 00:29:16,666
And they put him into the Wilno ghetto.

535
00:29:16,667 --> 00:29:18,332
He was in the Wilno ghetto.

536
00:29:18,333 --> 00:29:19,332
For a little while.

537
00:29:19,333 --> 00:29:21,332
Then he was liberated by the Russians.

538
00:29:21,333 --> 00:29:23,399
But then he made it into Germany.

539
00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:25,032
And then to Poland back.

540
00:29:25,033 --> 00:29:29,666
And he wound up in Łódź, Poland, in the Displaced Persons camp.

541
00:29:29,667 --> 00:29:31,799
So, she told him, that I was alive.

542
00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:37,332
And I was in a ca.., in a displaced person camp near Frankfurt am Main.

543
00:29:37,333 --> 00:29:39,332
It was called Zeilsheim.

544
00:29:39,333 --> 00:29:42,999
It was either run by the Jewish organization, the HIAS.

545
00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:49,166
Or maybe the UNRRA, they had a sign, UNRRA. U-N-R-R-A 503.

546
00:29:49,167 --> 00:29:52,132
The reason I remember that, because I have picture of it.

547
00:29:52,133 --> 00:29:54,666
I didn't bring it with me.

548
00:29:54,667 --> 00:29:57,932
So, anyway, so my brother found out about that.

549
00:29:57,933 --> 00:30:01,666
He came to me ah in a few weeks later.

550
00:30:01,667 --> 00:30:04,499
And he happened to know where my sister lives.

551
00:30:04,500 --> 00:30:09,332
Approximately in the, the Washington D. C. area.

552
00:30:09,333 --> 00:30:11,666
All I knew she was in America.

553
00:30:11,667 --> 00:30:13,332
But, so he came closer.

554
00:30:13,333 --> 00:30:15,632
And somehow we found our sister.

555
00:30:15,633 --> 00:30:17,732
And she sent papers for us.

556
00:30:17,733 --> 00:30:27,666
And the two of, of us, came together, emigrated to America in ninet.., ah we left ah in 1946.

557
00:30:27,667 --> 00:30:28,999
We came to America.

558
00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:37,332
'45 I was liberated, a year later, 46 of, of June I was in, ah in, in, in New York.

559
00:30:37,333 --> 00:30:37,699
IV: And then..

560
00:30:37,700 --> 00:30:38,399
CM: (???)

561
00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:41,666
IV: In the states, I think, you started a new life.

562
00:30:41,667 --> 00:30:43,099
Let's go back a little bit.

563
00:30:43,100 --> 00:30:44,332
Ah just to..

564
00:30:44,333 --> 00:30:46,132
HG: But they, I have to back up, because..

565
00:30:46,133 --> 00:30:46,599
IV: Okay.

566
00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:51,332
HG: What happened is, before the German army invaded my city

567
00:30:51,333 --> 00:30:57,466
in '39 of September, my Mum was very protective of us.

568
00:30:57,467 --> 00:31:04,399
There were three single girls and myself and the oldest of the brothers, the second oldest of the brothers.

569
00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:08,332
We went with a horse-drawn buggy on a farm.

570
00:31:08,333 --> 00:31:10,999
And we ate breakfast outside in the field.

571
00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:12,666
In front of the farmer's house.

572
00:31:12,667 --> 00:31:14,666
He gave us a piece of bread.

573
00:31:14,667 --> 00:31:18,999
And we used a tomato and we ate a piece tomato and some bread.

574
00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:22,332
Supposed to go in to get a glass of milk in there.

575
00:31:22,333 --> 00:31:28,466
Before we got it in to get the glass of milk, my brother saw a soldier, a Polish soldier.

576
00:31:28,467 --> 00:31:32,666
Pulling ah a bicycle, broken bicycle.

577
00:31:32,667 --> 00:31:36,666
And his, his uniform was a little ripped.

578
00:31:36,667 --> 00:31:38,499
And my brother stopped him.

579
00:31:38,500 --> 00:31:39,966
Somehow he knew his name.

580
00:31:39,967 --> 00:31:41,666
I don't know how he knew his name.

581
00:31:41,667 --> 00:31:43,732
Maybe it was a guard of the city.

582
00:31:43,733 --> 00:31:46,799
But he did have quite a few medals on him.

583
00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:49,199
And he called him by his first name.

584
00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:51,532
And he told him, he says: "Where're you running from?"

585
00:31:51,533 --> 00:31:53,999
He says: "I am running from the German army.

586
00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:56,332
I didn't wanna get caught to be a prisoner."

587
00:31:56,333 --> 00:31:58,032
In Polish to my brother.

588
00:31:58,033 --> 00:32:00,166
And he ran away in the opposite direction.

589
00:32:00,167 --> 00:32:02,032
My brother had an idea.

590
00:32:02,033 --> 00:32:05,199
He asked the soldier, can he run away with him?

591
00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:07,632
And he took off and left me by myself.

592
00:32:07,633 --> 00:32:08,666
Right there.

593
00:32:08,667 --> 00:32:11,999
And then I said: "He had to leave me.

594
00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:14,999
He is my big brother, my, my hero brother.

595
00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:18,266
He is gonna leave me with the three girls and my mum.

596
00:32:18,267 --> 00:32:20,799
You know, because the other one was the Polish army.

597
00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:21,232
IV: Yeah.

598
00:32:21,233 --> 00:32:23,132
HG: So, I was, I was the only man.

599
00:32:23,133 --> 00:32:23,499
IV: Yeah.

600
00:32:23,500 --> 00:32:24,666
HG: I didn't like that.

601
00:32:24,667 --> 00:32:29,266
I was chasing after, for a couple of miles, hiding under bushes.

602
00:32:29,267 --> 00:32:30,999
To see, where he disappeared.

603
00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:32,999
And he can.., but then he saw my head.

604
00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:34,999
He yelled back: "Go back to your mother.

605
00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:36,132
Go back to your mother."

606
00:32:36,133 --> 00:32:38,232
I didn't listen to him of course.

607
00:32:38,233 --> 00:32:42,666
But with the soldier turning around, he yelled at me to go back to my mother.

608
00:32:42,667 --> 00:32:44,332
I said: "Okay."

609
00:32:44,333 --> 00:32:48,232
And the next time I saw him, he was in America.

610
00:32:48,233 --> 00:32:52,666
He escaped to Wilno, Lithuania.

611
00:32:52,667 --> 00:32:57,666
And somehow he got in touch, in touch with my sister in America.

612
00:32:57,667 --> 00:33:04,999
And they, ah I understand that they had a Japanese ambassador in Wilno Lithuania.

613
00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:07,999
By the name of Sugihara.

614
00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:10,799
He was helping some Jews.

615
00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:12,666
They all took Chassidic Jews.

616
00:33:12,667 --> 00:33:14,432
With false passports.

617
00:33:14,433 --> 00:33:18,332
And he got them out of, he got them out of Wilno, Lithuania.

618
00:33:18,333 --> 00:33:20,666
And they sent them like to Manchuria.

619
00:33:20,667 --> 00:33:24,499
And from Manchuria they travelled wherever they wanted to go.

620
00:33:24,500 --> 00:33:26,799
Or whoever, the relatives...

621
00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:29,999
He asked to pick them up or what ever.

622
00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:36,499
So, when I came to America with the other brother, we were looking for my sister to come pick us up.

623
00:33:36,500 --> 00:33:39,266
Well, there was a man. He came.

624
00:33:39,267 --> 00:33:40,766
And he got closer to me.

625
00:33:40,767 --> 00:33:43,732
I said: "Oh, that is our brother Dave."

626
00:33:43,733 --> 00:33:45,466
I said: "How did you get here?"

627
00:33:45,467 --> 00:33:49,666
He says: "Oh, I came to America in 1941."

628
00:33:49,667 --> 00:33:54,332
Then he started, so I told him: "If you would have been a good brother {laughing},

629
00:33:54,333 --> 00:33:56,632
you would have let me run away with you.

630
00:33:56,633 --> 00:33:59,666
And I would have been in America in 1941, too."

631
00:33:59,667 --> 00:34:03,332
So he started telling me how much trouble that he had {laughing},

632
00:34:03,333 --> 00:34:05,966
while he was in Lithuania.

633
00:34:05,967 --> 00:34:07,466
I said: "Well, that's okay.

634
00:34:07,467 --> 00:34:08,332
That's all right.

635
00:34:08,333 --> 00:34:09,466
You're still my brother."

636
00:34:09,467 --> 00:34:11,366
We hugged. We got on the train.

637
00:34:11,367 --> 00:34:14,999
They took us to Washington, D. C. to see my sister.

638
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:20,232
And we all lived with my sister for a while.

639
00:34:20,233 --> 00:34:24,666
IV: Ah, so, strange stories.

640
00:34:24,667 --> 00:34:25,866
{???} so., what..

641
00:34:25,867 --> 00:34:26,266
HG: Thank you.

642
00:34:26,267 --> 00:34:29,099
IV: ..happened to one family. And so..

643
00:34:29,100 --> 00:34:31,532
HG: And so, God was watching over me.

644
00:34:31,533 --> 00:34:32,566
I came here.

645
00:34:32,567 --> 00:34:35,532
I raised a beautiful family.

646
00:34:35,533 --> 00:34:38,332
And I came with nothing.

647
00:34:38,333 --> 00:34:39,666
With nothing.

648
00:34:39,667 --> 00:34:43,799
In America they say, on, the, in America that you can do that.

649
00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:49,799
You can become whoever you want to, if you're willing to work, willing to work hard.

650
00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:53,066
And make something out of yourself.

651
00:34:53,067 --> 00:34:56,932
IV: So, but so starting this new life, what about the past?

652
00:34:56,933 --> 00:34:58,166
Did you try to forget it?

653
00:34:58,167 --> 00:35:00,566
HG: Well.., and I never forget it.

654
00:35:00,567 --> 00:35:01,432
I never forget it.

655
00:35:01,433 --> 00:35:04,666
In the beginning you were dreaming every night.

656
00:35:04,667 --> 00:35:07,166
I was black and blue sometimes from my wife.

657
00:35:07,167 --> 00:35:10,832
She would hit me at night time: "You were, you're dreaming, you're dreaming."

658
00:35:10,833 --> 00:35:12,166
Wake me up.

659
00:35:12,167 --> 00:35:18,732
But, since I am, I am a volunteer for quite a long time about fifteen years or more

660
00:35:18,733 --> 00:35:22,499
at the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum.

661
00:35:22,500 --> 00:35:25,132
And I speak to audiences there.

662
00:35:25,133 --> 00:35:28,066
I tell my story just like I told you this story.

663
00:35:28,067 --> 00:35:30,332
And a, field trips come.

664
00:35:30,333 --> 00:35:38,499
And many, I don't say too many, I have run across quite a few a German young people that come.

665
00:35:38,500 --> 00:35:40,499
To the museum.

666
00:35:40,500 --> 00:35:46,166
And sometimes after they get through viewing they come down and they cry.

667
00:35:46,167 --> 00:35:49,966
And they ask: "Do you have ah survivors?"

668
00:35:49,967 --> 00:35:54,932
And the information tells them, there is a survivor at that desk.

669
00:35:54,933 --> 00:35:58,099
And every day somebody, two people sit at that desk.

670
00:35:58,100 --> 00:35:59,699
The survivors.

671
00:35:59,700 --> 00:36:02,099
Whether they are from Russia, whether they are from Poland.

672
00:36:02,100 --> 00:36:03,566
No matter who they are.

673
00:36:03,567 --> 00:36:07,666
And they start talking to the person.

674
00:36:07,667 --> 00:36:10,666
And sometimes we tell them: "You don't need to cry.

675
00:36:10,667 --> 00:36:12,099
It was not your fault.

676
00:36:12,100 --> 00:36:13,932
You were too young.

677
00:36:13,933 --> 00:36:17,632
Your great-grandfather, maybe, I will never forgive.

678
00:36:17,633 --> 00:36:20,032
But you and your mum and your parents.

679
00:36:20,033 --> 00:36:20,999
You're too young.

680
00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:23,466
I have nothing against you.

681
00:36:23,467 --> 00:36:25,666
You didn't do it."

682
00:36:25,667 --> 00:36:26,566
IV: And you also..

683
00:36:26,567 --> 00:36:28,299
HG: So that gets out of my system.

684
00:36:28,300 --> 00:36:32,732
Because I don't have a, some of this survivors keep everything bundled up.

685
00:36:32,733 --> 00:36:35,799
And eventually, and they explode.

686
00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:38,532
Something happens to them and they loose their mind.

687
00:36:38,533 --> 00:36:41,532
Well, I know some of them, who did that.

688
00:36:41,533 --> 00:36:44,532
But, like I say, the group that goes out to talk

689
00:36:44,533 --> 00:36:48,532
we are about eighty of us at the Holocaust Museum.

690
00:36:48,533 --> 00:36:52,232
Every day there is somebody at that desk, two people.

691
00:36:52,233 --> 00:36:57,899
If somebody wants to talk to us and we, most of the time they come in and wanna take pictures with you.

692
00:36:57,900 --> 00:37:03,199
The audience, whether it is German.., I even ran across a German High School Gymnasium.

693
00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:07,132
They said they went to Auschwitz recently, a few days ago.

694
00:37:07,133 --> 00:37:08,399
I was there.

695
00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:12,366
And the and the guard, the woman that was taking them,

696
00:37:12,367 --> 00:37:15,532
ah as a group, was sitting with me on the bench.

697
00:37:15,533 --> 00:37:17,166
And we started talking.

698
00:37:17,167 --> 00:37:21,832
And while the, the children was sitting on the grass area, resting.

699
00:37:21,833 --> 00:37:24,999
So she found out about me.

700
00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:26,532
Well, yeah, of course I told her.

701
00:37:26,533 --> 00:37:28,266
She asked me where I was from.

702
00:37:28,267 --> 00:37:31,599
And I told her that I am a survivor in the Holocaust.

703
00:37:31,600 --> 00:37:33,332
She said: "Can you do me a favour?"

704
00:37:33,333 --> 00:37:35,399
I said: "Sure. What do you need?"

705
00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:36,866
She said: "I bring the kids over here.

706
00:37:36,867 --> 00:37:38,166
Can you talk to them?"

707
00:37:38,167 --> 00:37:39,999
They came over to me.

708
00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:42,966
And I started telling them the story.

709
00:37:42,967 --> 00:37:44,566
Some of them would tear eye.

710
00:37:44,567 --> 00:37:46,599
Mostly the girls.

711
00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:49,666
And there was some boys and girls.

712
00:37:49,667 --> 00:37:52,966
Just, just about few days ago I did that.

713
00:37:52,967 --> 00:37:55,999
So, maybe that is the reason I get it out of my system...

714
00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:57,732
And that doesn't affect me.

715
00:37:57,733 --> 00:38:00,466
Some of the pe.., like I say, do not talk.

716
00:38:00,467 --> 00:38:01,299
They will not talk.

717
00:38:01,300 --> 00:38:02,666
They can't talk.

718
00:38:02,667 --> 00:38:03,999
They break down, too.

719
00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:08,866
IV: Yeah. But in the beginning, when you got your children and your family,

720
00:38:08,867 --> 00:38:11,066
you did talk about your, tell your, to tell your sons...

721
00:38:11,067 --> 00:38:14,099
HG: I have never told my kids until they were older.

722
00:38:14,100 --> 00:38:14,532
IV: Yeah.

723
00:38:14,533 --> 00:38:20,299
HG: I remember they finally found out about it in 1978.

724
00:38:20,300 --> 00:38:24,766
There was a documentary on NBC playing.

725
00:38:24,767 --> 00:38:29,099
And they played, it was called, the documentary was called Holocaust.

726
00:38:29,100 --> 00:38:29,732
IV: Oh no.

727
00:38:29,733 --> 00:38:33,832
HG: So they broke it down to three segments.

728
00:38:33,833 --> 00:38:37,466
Ah every other night over..., just break it up.

729
00:38:37,467 --> 00:38:41,099
And my, I used to tell when they were little, my, especially my daughter.

730
00:38:41,100 --> 00:38:45,266
She wants to know my.., I said: "That is my telephone number from the store {laughing}."

731
00:38:45,267 --> 00:38:46,399
I would not tell her.

732
00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:49,299
But then, 1978, they were already older.

733
00:38:49,300 --> 00:38:52,432
They knew what it was.

734
00:38:52,433 --> 00:38:56,632
About that time I went around to talk already at that time.

735
00:38:56,633 --> 00:38:59,232
IV: But now it is the first time you are coming to Flossenbürg?

736
00:38:59,233 --> 00:39:01,199
HG: Yes, I have a reason for that.

737
00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:02,932
I was to busy in my store.

738
00:39:02,933 --> 00:39:05,232
I was in the dry-cleaning business.

739
00:39:05,233 --> 00:39:06,866
And I couldn't get out.

740
00:39:06,867 --> 00:39:11,199
And my wife was not feeling well, too much always, to be traveling.

741
00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:13,366
And then I had, the children were little.

742
00:39:13,367 --> 00:39:16,132
I didn't, and I didn't feel like leaving them alone.

743
00:39:16,133 --> 00:39:22,099
But since, I am eighty-six years old, I said, "you better do it now, or you never do it again."

744
00:39:22,100 --> 00:39:24,066
So I took it up on myself to do it.

745
00:39:24,067 --> 00:39:27,332
They agreed to come travel with me.

746
00:39:27,333 --> 00:39:28,999
So I decided to come here.

747
00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:32,999
IV: Mhm {confirming}. And now, what about your, what about your feelings, your emotions?

748
00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:38,999
HG: Feeling this, well, it affects me, but I said, I almost look back at the bright side of the story.

749
00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:40,232
I said: "I'm alive.

750
00:39:40,233 --> 00:39:42,332
And accomplished a lot." I said.

751
00:39:42,333 --> 00:39:46,732
While I was here, I cannot bring them back, the people who were murdered.

752
00:39:46,733 --> 00:39:48,666
I can't bring them back.

753
00:39:48,667 --> 00:39:52,266
So I'm, I'm happy as I get along with my family.

754
00:39:52,267 --> 00:39:54,766
I got three sons and a daughter.

755
00:39:54,767 --> 00:39:58,332
I got twelve grandkids, six great granddaughters.

756
00:39:58,333 --> 00:40:00,566
One of them is a little boy.

757
00:40:00,567 --> 00:40:04,332
So, I, I raised ah I, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm good, in good shape.

758
00:40:04,333 --> 00:40:05,432
I can't walk too good.

759
00:40:05,433 --> 00:40:07,066
But that is all right.

760
00:40:07,067 --> 00:40:08,666
But so far, I'm okay.

761
00:40:08,667 --> 00:40:13,699
IV: Mhm {confirming}. So, one last question, let's come, come, going back to Flossenbürg.

762
00:40:13,700 --> 00:40:18,199
Ah when you told your story, you said, one camp was like the other.

763
00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:18,999
So, are there any special..

764
00:40:19,000 --> 00:40:20,532
HG: Well, when I came in the barrack,

765
00:40:20,533 --> 00:40:22,866
what I ment is the barracks're the same.

766
00:40:22,867 --> 00:40:24,632
The barracks were the same.

767
00:40:24,633 --> 00:40:26,266
Three people to a barrack.

768
00:40:26,267 --> 00:40:27,466
The same food.

769
00:40:27,467 --> 00:40:29,432
A slice of bread in the morning.

770
00:40:29,433 --> 00:40:31,666
A little black Ersatz-coffee.

771
00:40:31,667 --> 00:40:34,399
And then we work for ten hours in the factories.

772
00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:37,566
And then they gave us cabbage water, cabbage soup.

773
00:40:37,567 --> 00:40:40,999
I remember, that I had a spoon in the, tied up to my pants.

774
00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:42,466
I never took it off.

775
00:40:42,467 --> 00:40:45,232
Because it was nothing to spoon.

776
00:40:45,233 --> 00:40:48,299
Just drink out this bowl of soup. That's all.

777
00:40:48,300 --> 00:40:51,566
In every camp I stayed, that the, the, the diet never changed.

778
00:40:51,567 --> 00:40:53,266
Except in one camp.

779
00:40:53,267 --> 00:40:54,532
It might have been here.

780
00:40:54,533 --> 00:40:56,599
The Red Cross came one day.

781
00:40:56,600 --> 00:41:02,866
And I don't know whether this, the Red Cross was a German Red Cross or whether international?

782
00:41:02,867 --> 00:41:05,266
Or whether they were Polish, that I don't know.

783
00:41:05,267 --> 00:41:06,766
We could not talk to them.

784
00:41:06,767 --> 00:41:09,499
The German officers were talking, discussing.

785
00:41:09,500 --> 00:41:10,999
But they made us clean up,

786
00:41:11,000 --> 00:41:12,266
the area real good.

787
00:41:12,267 --> 00:41:17,166
They brought in two goals to, for us to play soccer.

788
00:41:17,167 --> 00:41:21,599
And, and that day, we didn't get any cabbage water soup.

789
00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:23,899
We got cream of wheat.

790
00:41:23,900 --> 00:41:31,366
And I, I know for sure that these ah, ah red cross people that were there, were observing us.

791
00:41:31,367 --> 00:41:33,299
That we don't look like that we get fat.

792
00:41:33,300 --> 00:41:35,166
Cream of wheat everyday.

793
00:41:35,167 --> 00:41:37,732
The way we looked.

794
00:41:37,733 --> 00:41:40,966
The next day back to cabbage water.

795
00:41:40,967 --> 00:41:44,832
And I think it was Flossenbürg.

796
00:41:44,833 --> 00:41:47,999
IV: So, but Flossenbürg was the last camp you have been?

797
00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:50,466
And it was very close to the end of the war?

798
00:41:50,467 --> 00:41:50,599
HG: True..

799
00:41:50,600 --> 00:41:54,899
IV: So, was it more, more crowded, more difficult, more dirty?

800
00:41:54,900 --> 00:41:58,666
More dying people than compared to the other camps?

801
00:41:58,667 --> 00:42:02,599
HG: Well, Flossenbürg, I remember they had ah a nice bathroom.

802
00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:05,432
They didn't have that bathroom with that long seats

803
00:42:05,433 --> 00:42:07,032
I don't think, with the holes.

804
00:42:07,033 --> 00:42:12,632
There is like a regular, if, if you go to urinate the, ah the wall thing, to normal...

805
00:42:12,633 --> 00:42:15,266
And all the other camps we didn't have that.

806
00:42:15,267 --> 00:42:18,366
That is the only thing about Flossenbürg that I remember.

807
00:42:18,367 --> 00:42:20,732
And it was some way to wash your hands, too.

808
00:42:20,733 --> 00:42:25,032
No soap, but you could wash your hands.

809
00:42:25,033 --> 00:42:27,266
But I didn't see all of Flossenbürg.

810
00:42:27,267 --> 00:42:33,399
I arrived yesterday and I just mingled with the group that's in, under the tent.

811
00:42:33,400 --> 00:42:34,199
IV: Yeah.

812
00:42:34,200 --> 00:42:36,066
HG: To see, if I recognize anybody.

813
00:42:36,067 --> 00:42:41,932
Today we're hoping we gonna go into the office or library or the museum whatever they have there.

814
00:42:41,933 --> 00:42:44,666
To see, if my records are there.

815
00:42:44,667 --> 00:42:47,666
IV: Yeah, and so, perhaps some memories will come back, seeing..

816
00:42:47,667 --> 00:42:48,666
HG: Perhaps, yes..

817
00:42:48,667 --> 00:42:48,999
IV: Old pictures..

818
00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:49,632
HG: Because..

819
00:42:49,633 --> 00:42:51,666
IV: Or the area..

820
00:42:51,667 --> 00:42:54,599
HG: Like we went back to Auschwitz, before I came here.

821
00:42:54,600 --> 00:42:54,599
IV: Yeah.

822
00:42:54,600 --> 00:42:56,599
HG: We went to Birkenau, Auschwitz.

823
00:42:56,600 --> 00:43:00,666
Some of the barracks, you know, they would, I, I remember the barracks.

824
00:43:00,667 --> 00:43:03,232
I don't know exactly where they were.

825
00:43:03,233 --> 00:43:04,499
But they were there.

826
00:43:04,500 --> 00:43:08,132
I remember seeing the, whether the guards was sitting on top of there.

827
00:43:08,133 --> 00:43:13,999
They're guarding the area with a, where the ah electric w.., ah fences were around.

828
00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:15,032
And then that was roped up.

829
00:43:15,033 --> 00:43:17,066
You can't go behind the fences.

830
00:43:17,067 --> 00:43:17,732
That kind of thing.

831
00:43:17,733 --> 00:43:19,599
Yeah, it comes back to you.

832
00:43:19,600 --> 00:43:23,966
But I didn't see anything here yet.

833
00:43:23,967 --> 00:43:26,999
IV: Okay. So, I just can say: "Thank you for sharing..

834
00:43:27,000 --> 00:43:28,332
HG: You, you're welcome.

835
00:43:28,333 --> 00:43:29,299
IV: ..your experience."

836
00:43:29,300 --> 00:43:30,666
HG: And by the way I will tell you.

837
00:43:30,667 --> 00:43:35,732
I was interviewed by a German television station around,

838
00:43:35,733 --> 00:43:43,399
I think it was easter time, when we had, the museum had the twentieth anniversary, since they opened.

839
00:43:43,400 --> 00:43:44,832
IV: Yeah. The Holocaust Museum?

840
00:43:44,833 --> 00:43:48,232
HG: Yes, the Jewish..,United States Holocaust Memorial Museum.

841
00:43:48,233 --> 00:43:49,699
That is the right title.

842
00:43:49,700 --> 00:43:53,099
And so, a German crew came up to my appartment.

843
00:43:53,100 --> 00:43:57,532
They were two, two men and a woman from the German television station.

844
00:43:57,533 --> 00:44:00,466
That is stationed in the Washington area.

845
00:44:00,467 --> 00:44:03,332
They came to meet me for almost two hours.

846
00:44:03,333 --> 00:44:06,332
And then was, you know, that by the time you get through,

847
00:44:06,333 --> 00:44:11,832
they edited, you know, ah like a little, because she send me the, the tape.

848
00:44:11,833 --> 00:44:12,332
IV: Yeah.

849
00:44:12,333 --> 00:44:12,999
HG: The disc.

850
00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:13,299
IV: Yeah.

851
00:44:13,300 --> 00:44:16,599
HG: Two seconds. And I said, they interviewed me for two hours.

852
00:44:16,600 --> 00:44:18,132
That was more than that.

853
00:44:18,133 --> 00:44:24,632
But on television, and by the time, this television was shown in, in Germany.

854
00:44:24,633 --> 00:44:26,766
On the evening news.

855
00:44:26,767 --> 00:44:28,399
Now whether you can follow that up,

856
00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:30,832
to see, if I'm telling you the truth {laughing}.

857
00:44:30,833 --> 00:44:33,666
Mayb.., maybe you can find out something.

858
00:44:33,667 --> 00:44:39,000
IV: So, but this time, you will get a DVD of..